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Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 1348	Posted - 2013.11.26 14:43:00 - [1] - Quote I was pondering today, how exactly would this work. If the market is controlled only by players, where would players acquire the Items to be sold in the Market? In order to have a sustainable economy in DUST, players would need a method harvesting resources, researching technology, and producing the infantry gear and vehicles we would expect to see in the market. Is the goal to only have EVE players manufacture DUST infantry Vehicles and Gear? What happens when EVE players decide to arbitrarily drive up the cost of Infantry Items to the Point of DUST players not being able to afford them? Would everyone without EVE contacts or Corp Members, or a PC ISK farm be forced to use only Starter fits? This would elevate the current Epidemic of Protostomping into Pandemic status. What are some of your thoughts on this, CCP? What direction are you taking when the implementation of a Player market becomes a reality? "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Viktor Hadah Jr Critical-Impact 1226	Posted - 2013.11.26 14:45:00 - [2] - Quote Salvaged items. And stuff you buy no longer want and sell back Buy won't be that active until we get Indy. For the Empire Dual tanking is a sin BPO's are bad for economy, Respec's are bad for the game. Want to fight about it?
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 7990	Posted - 2013.11.26 14:46:00 - [3] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Salvaged items. And stuff you buy no longer want and sell back Buy won't be that active until we get Indy. Without industry you'd just see the ISK farming corps buy up EVERYTHING, and then refuse to sell it, effectively choking out the majority of the "competition" before it even got up and running. Read / Vid / Stream
chase rowland The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 82	Posted - 2013.11.26 14:48:00 - [4] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: I was pondering today, how exactly would this work. If the market is controlled only by players, where would players acquire the Items to be sold in the Market? In order to have a sustainable economy in DUST, players would need a method harvesting resources, researching technology, and producing the infantry gear and vehicles we would expect to see in the market. Is the goal to only have EVE players manufacture DUST infantry Vehicles and Gear? What happens when EVE players decide to arbitrarily drive up the cost of Infantry Items to the Point of DUST players not being able to afford them? Would everyone without EVE contacts or Corp Members, or a PC ISK farm be forced to use only Starter fits? This would elevate the current Epidemic of Protostomping into Pandemic status. What are some of your thoughts on this, CCP? What direction are you taking when the implementation of a Player market becomes a reality? if that is the case, I fret not. as long as I got my starter fits, my proficiency should keep me afloat. I personally think that there should be a kind of backup option if you will, like corporations being able to produce the weapons on certain areas they own and be able to sell.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1965	Posted - 2013.11.26 14:48:00 - [5] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Salvaged items. And stuff you buy no longer want and sell back Buy won't be that active until we get Indy. 1. What Victor said. B. One player or even a group may decide to drive up prices but there are plenty out there willing to undercut and the market always corrects itself. I have one highly skilled industrial pilot and a very solid planetary colony infrastructure already built. The day pilots can build for mercenaries I'll start building for the Minmatar markets. They're going to have to change how BPCs and BPOs work though and that seems like a big undertaking for them right now. // Logistics / Scout / Dropship Crash Tester // https://twitter.com/reesnoturana
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 1348	Posted - 2013.11.26 14:52:00 - [6] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Salvaged items. And stuff you buy no longer want and sell back Buy won't be that active until we get Indy. Unless the salvage tables are set to 100% of items lost in a match, this would not be sustainable. Even then, there are still problems with this. There would really be no way to distribute the salvage evenly between all players. Players who got the most or best salvage, would be able to corner the market easily. What would determine how much or what salvage you recieved? Would it be Performance? If it was based off of Performance, then the Protostomp teams would have yet another ISK farm because they would not only have ISK from PC, but also have nearly complete control of the Market. This would end up causing the same problems detailed above where PC Corps who Protostomp using PC ISK would be able to drive the prices of the better gear up to the point that they are the only ones who could afford to buy it. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 1348	Posted - 2013.11.26 14:53:00 - [7] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Salvaged items. And stuff you buy no longer want and sell back Buy won't be that active until we get Indy. Without industry you'd just see the ISK farming corps buy up EVERYTHING, and then refuse to sell it, effectively choking out the majority of the "competition" before it even got up and running. This is exactly what worries me. "The true measure of a shinobi is not how he lives, but how he dies." *- The Toad Sage*
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1967	Posted - 2013.11.26 14:57:00 - [8] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Salvaged items. And stuff you buy no longer want and sell back Buy won't be that active until we get Indy. Without industry you'd just see the ISK farming corps buy up EVERYTHING, and then refuse to sell it, effectively choking out the majority of the "competition" before it even got up and running. This is exactly what worries me. I'm guessing that we won't be seeing the end of the NPC sellers any time soon. Players will have to undercut them in order to sell their salvage and other unwanted gear. NPCs will effectively set the high end for pricing except for officer gear. If that is bought up they'll end up making those that find it in salvage very rich. Once that gear is too expensive even the rich mercs will hesitate to waste it in anything other than tournaments. // Logistics / Scout / Dropship Crash Tester // https://twitter.com/reesnoturana
Mobius Wyvern Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 3860	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:09:00 - [9] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: I was pondering today, how exactly would this work. If the market is controlled only by players, where would players acquire the Items to be sold in the Market? In order to have a sustainable economy in DUST, players would need a method harvesting resources, researching technology, and producing the infantry gear and vehicles we would expect to see in the market. Is the goal to only have EVE players manufacture DUST infantry Vehicles and Gear? What happens when EVE players decide to arbitrarily drive up the cost of Infantry Items to the Point of DUST players not being able to afford them? Would everyone without EVE contacts or Corp Members, or a PC ISK farm be forced to use only Starter fits? This would elevate the current Epidemic of Protostomping into Pandemic status. What are some of your thoughts on this, CCP? What direction are you taking when the implementation of a Player market becomes a reality? EVE Online, man. Why would anyone in their right mind want to build things in a shooter? Just let the EVE players do it. And please don't anyone start spouting ******** bullshit about how EVE players will make GEK's 3 million each just to spite us. People who do industry are in it for the MONEY. If they don't make MONEY they go bankrupt. Therefore it is in the best interest of all the players producing assets to make them affordable so that we will buy them and they will make money. This is ground-floor basic economics people. Stop being scared of getting worked over and look at the big picture. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 7993	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:12:00 - [10] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: I was pondering today, how exactly would this work. If the market is controlled only by players, where would players acquire the Items to be sold in the Market? In order to have a sustainable economy in DUST, players would need a method harvesting resources, researching technology, and producing the infantry gear and vehicles we would expect to see in the market. Is the goal to only have EVE players manufacture DUST infantry Vehicles and Gear? What happens when EVE players decide to arbitrarily drive up the cost of Infantry Items to the Point of DUST players not being able to afford them? Would everyone without EVE contacts or Corp Members, or a PC ISK farm be forced to use only Starter fits? This would elevate the current Epidemic of Protostomping into Pandemic status. What are some of your thoughts on this, CCP? What direction are you taking when the implementation of a Player market becomes a reality? EVE Online, man. Why would anyone in their right mind want to build things in a shooter? Just let the EVE players do it. And please don't anyone start spouting ******** bullshit about how EVE players will make GEK's 3 million each just to spite us. People who do industry are in it for the MONEY. If they don't make MONEY they go bankrupt. Therefore it is in the best interest of all the players producing assets to make them affordable so that we will buy them and they will make money. This is ground-floor basic economics people. Stop being scared of getting worked over and look at the big picture. With the disparity between DUST and EVE ISK, you'd have to imagine that the cost to produce items in EVE would end up being more than they're worth in DUST, thus making it so that, at least for a while, no one would bother manufacturing for DUST unless it was for their alliance / corp and they were being compensated EVE side, since DUST side would only lose them money. We need PvE and real salvage, is what we need. Read / Vid / Stream

Mdog 24158 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 28	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:14:00 - [11] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: I was pondering today, how exactly would this work. If the market is controlled only by players, where would players acquire the Items to be sold in the Market? In order to have a sustainable economy in DUST, players would need a method harvesting resources, researching technology, and producing the infantry gear and vehicles we would expect to see in the market. Is the goal to only have EVE players manufacture DUST infantry Vehicles and Gear? What happens when EVE players decide to arbitrarily drive up the cost of Infantry Items to the Point of DUST players not being able to afford them? Would everyone without EVE contacts or Corp Members, or a PC ISK farm be forced to use only Starter fits? This would elevate the current Epidemic of Protostomping into Pandemic status. What are some of your thoughts on this, CCP? What direction are you taking when the implementation of a Player market becomes a reality? In pc when you own a district you should be allowed to build industry on it that provides resources eve players can buy Flying derpships and scout shotgunning 24/7 quite fun i must say
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5333	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:14:00 - [12] - Quote Even if Eve online players have full control of the production side of things, market competition such as undercutting will ensure that the prices are reasonable. Supply and demand is the law of the land in the world of economics. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4046	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:16:00 - [13] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: I was pondering today, how exactly would this work. If the market is controlled only by players, where would players acquire the Items to be sold in the Market? In order to have a sustainable economy in DUST, players would need a method harvesting resources, researching technology, and producing the infantry gear and vehicles we would expect to see in the market. Is the goal to only have EVE players manufacture DUST infantry Vehicles and Gear? What happens when EVE players decide to arbitrarily drive up the cost of Infantry Items to the Point of DUST players not being able to afford them? Would everyone without EVE contacts or Corp Members, or a PC ISK farm be forced to use only Starter fits? This would elevate the current Epidemic of Protostomping into Pandemic status. What are some of your thoughts on this, CCP? What direction are you taking when the implementation of a Player market becomes a reality? EVE Online, man. Why would anyone in their right mind want to build things in a shooter? Just let the EVE players do it. And please don't anyone start spouting ******** bullshit about how EVE players will make GEK's 3 million each just to spite us. People who do industry are in it for the MONEY. If they don't make MONEY they go bankrupt. Therefore it is in the best interest of all the players producing assets to make them affordable so that we will buy them and they will make money. This is ground-floor basic economics people. Stop being scared of getting worked over and look at the big picture. With the disparity between DUST and EVE ISK, you'd have to imagine that the cost to produce items in EVE would end up being more than they're worth in DUST, thus making it so that, at least for a while, no one would bother manufacturing for DUST unless it was for their alliance / corp and they were being compensated EVE side, since DUST side would only lose them money. We need PvE and real salvage, is what we need. Dust mercs go through their gear much faster. Losing 10 proto suits (battleships) within the space of 15 minutes is extremely rare. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Rogue Saint Science For Death 468	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:18:00 - [14] - Quote NPC's will still seed the market, EvE players will then have to undercut the price of the NPC's ... Simple. The price should never go above the NPC price, end result being we get cheaper items. The economics of this will be at the EvE side with material costs etc. GôêGÆ+GÆ+GÆ¦ - Bringing the dakka [The whiny Scout]
Mobius Wyvern Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 3860	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:19:00 - [15] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: I was pondering today, how exactly would this work. If the market is controlled only by players, where would players acquire the Items to be sold in the Market? In order to have a sustainable economy in DUST, players would need a method harvesting resources, researching technology, and producing the infantry gear and vehicles we would expect to see in the market. Is the goal to only have EVE players manufacture DUST infantry Vehicles and Gear? What happens when EVE players decide to arbitrarily drive up the cost of Infantry Items to the Point of DUST players not being able to afford them? Would everyone without EVE contacts or Corp Members, or a PC ISK farm be forced to use only Starter fits? This would elevate the current Epidemic of Protostomping into Pandemic status. What are some of your thoughts on this, CCP? What direction are you taking when the implementation of a Player market becomes a reality? EVE Online, man. Why would anyone in their right mind want to build things in a shooter? Just let the EVE players do it. And please don't anyone start spouting ****** bullshit about how EVE players will make GEK's 3 million each just to spite us. People who do industry are in it for the MONEY. If they don't make MONEY they go bankrupt. Therefore it is in the best interest of all the players producing assets to make them affordable so that we will buy them and they will make money. This is ground-floor basic economics people. Stop being scared of getting worked over and look at the big picture. With the disparity between DUST and EVE ISK, you'd have to imagine that the cost to produce items in EVE would end up being more than they're worth in DUST, thus making it so that, at least for a while, no one would bother manufacturing for DUST unless it was for their alliance / corp and they were being compensated EVE side, since DUST side would only lose them money. We need PvE and real salvage, is what we need. All it takes is the resource cost being exceptionally low, which it would be because the assets are so small. Also, I just had a short conversation on this with Cat Merc, and thought it might address the pricing issue some have brought up even further: [10:13:35 AM] Cheshire Cat: Yeah, Dust players are scared of EVE players setting the prices too high [10:14:02 AM] Cheshire Cat: In that case I would just go into EVE, create a fuckton of weapons at a reasonable price, and laugh as the attempts of those trying to ** with Dust go to waste [10:14:12 AM] Midnight(Mobius): EXACTLY [10:14:21 AM] Cheshire Cat: AND make a quick buck out of it [10:14:25 AM] Midnight(Mobius): All it takes is ONE guy undercutting all the assholes, and they all lose everything [10:14:35 AM] Midnight(Mobius): And that one guy is rolling in ISK while being a hero while he's at it This pretty much sums it up. Anyone actually producing Dust assets cannot take the risk of being undercut, same as it is with EVE. I figure that, just like they said at FanFest 2013, industry would be best left to the game which has had a lot of people gaining a lot of experience in this stuff over several years, and has a robust economy that will do a good job of controlling pricing and keeping everything affordable. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK 280	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:20:00 - [16] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: I was pondering today, how exactly would this work. If the market is controlled only by players, where would players acquire the Items to be sold in the Market? In order to have a sustainable economy in DUST, players would need a method harvesting resources, researching technology, and producing the infantry gear and vehicles we would expect to see in the market. Is the goal to only have EVE players manufacture DUST infantry Vehicles and Gear? What happens when EVE players decide to arbitrarily drive up the cost of Infantry Items to the Point of DUST players not being able to afford them? Would everyone without EVE contacts or Corp Members, or a PC ISK farm be forced to use only Starter fits? This would elevate the current Epidemic of Protostomping into Pandemic status. What are some of your thoughts on this, CCP? What direction are you taking when the implementation of a Player market becomes a reality? EVE Online, man. Why would anyone in their right mind want to build things in a shooter? Just let the EVE players do it. And please don't anyone start spouting ******** bullshit about how EVE players will make GEK's 3 million each just to spite us. People who do industry are in it for the MONEY. If they don't make MONEY they go bankrupt. Therefore it is in the best interest of all the players producing assets to make them affordable so that we will buy them and they will make money. This is ground-floor basic economics people. Stop being scared of getting worked over and look at the big picture. EVE industrialists are so well off, and wellsupplied that money isn't a factor to most. I crash frigate and cruiser markets just for the lulz bud, 3 million geks could happen quite easily. Inverse of that is the struggling or new indy player who will chase the infantry market and realize that it's going to be heavily saturated with high high supply and steady demand. Profits will be razor thin to the point that a lot if players will stop feeding it. Then equilibrium the under supply b then over. ...repeat until the end if time. Now granted the second case might be more in DUST players favor, but the price will still be set by EVE. It's ugly and unsightly and I really don't see it going that smooth ever, EVE side DUST production but we'll find iut Something witty here. How DOES one get a cat into a dropsuit?
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5333	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:23:00 - [17] - Quote Rogue Saint wrote: NPC's will still seed the market, EvE players will then have to undercut the price of the NPC's ... Simple. The price should never go above the NPC price, end result being we get cheaper items. The economics of this will be at the EvE side with material costs etc. Temporary yes. But not permanently. Eventually the npc supply will need to be removed and finally let the players have total control of the supply. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4046	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:23:00 - [18] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: I was pondering today, how exactly would this work. If the market is controlled only by players, where would players acquire the Items to be sold in the Market? In order to have a sustainable economy in DUST, players would need a method harvesting resources, researching technology, and producing the infantry gear and vehicles we would expect to see in the market. Is the goal to only have EVE players manufacture DUST infantry Vehicles and Gear? What happens when EVE players decide to arbitrarily drive up the cost of Infantry Items to the Point of DUST players not being able to afford them? Would everyone without EVE contacts or Corp Members, or a PC ISK farm be forced to use only Starter fits? This would elevate the current Epidemic of Protostomping into Pandemic status. What are some of your thoughts on this, CCP? What direction are you taking when the implementation of a Player market becomes a reality? EVE Online, man. Why would anyone in their right mind want to build things in a shooter? Just let the EVE players do it. And please don't anyone start spouting ******** bullshit about how EVE players will make GEK's 3 million each just to spite us. People who do industry are in it for the MONEY. If they don't make MONEY they go bankrupt. Therefore it is in the best interest of all the players producing assets to make them affordable so that we will buy them and they will make money. This is ground-floor basic economics people. Stop being scared of getting worked over and look at the big picture. EVE industrialists are so well off, and wellsupplied that money isn't a factor to most. I crash frigate and cruiser markets just for the lulz bud, 3 million geks could happen quite easily. Inverse of that is the struggling or new indy player who will chase the infantry market and realize that it's going to be heavily saturated with high high supply and steady demand. Profits will be razor thin to the point that a lot if players will stop feeding it. Then equilibrium the under supply b then over. ...repeat until the end if time. Now granted the second case might be more in DUST players favor, but the price will still be set by EVE. It's ugly and unsightly and I really don't see it going that smooth ever, EVE side DUST production but we'll find iut Dust players should be just as susceptible to market manipulation as EVE players. It's all New Eden. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 7993	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:24:00 - [19] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: All it takes is the resource cost being exceptionally low, which it would be because the assets are so small. Also, I just had a short conversation on this with Cat Merc, and thought it might address the pricing issue some have brought up even further: [10:13:35 AM] Cheshire Cat: Yeah, Dust players are scared of EVE players setting the prices too high [10:14:02 AM] Cheshire Cat: In that case I would just go into EVE, create a fuckton of weapons at a reasonable price, and laugh as the attempts of those trying to **** with Dust go to waste [10:14:12 AM] Midnight(Mobius): EXACTLY [10:14:21 AM] Cheshire Cat: AND make a quick buck out of it [10:14:25 AM] Midnight(Mobius): All it takes is ONE guy undercutting all the assholes, and they all lose everything [10:14:35 AM] Midnight(Mobius): And that one guy is rolling in ISK while being a hero while he's at it This pretty much sums it up. Anyone actually producing Dust assets cannot take the risk of being undercut, same as it is with EVE. I figure that, just like they said at FanFest 2013, industry would be best left to the game which has had a lot of people gaining a lot of experience in this stuff over several years, and has a robust economy that will do a good job of controlling pricing and keeping everything affordable. Hey, I'd love to have my EVE character pumping out gear for me, the main thing though is finding a balance where A.) the resources are less costly than what they're sold for and B.) not so cheap that there is no reason to ever not produce your own gear. I'm not too in the know on how industry works, I just know that there is so much room for abuse with a system like that. I can make hundreds of millions of ISK in EVE just being the total noob that I am, if I could just make gear for myself, contract it to me for 1 ISK per piece of gear....what's to stop me from always running proto until the end of time? Read / Vid / Stream
Rogue Saint Science For Death 468	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:29:00 - [20] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Rogue Saint wrote: NPC's will still seed the market, EvE players will then have to undercut the price of the NPC's ... Simple. The price should never go above the NPC price, end result being we get cheaper items. The economics of this will be at the EvE side with material costs etc. Temporary yes. But not permanently. Eventually the npc supply will need to be removed and finally let the players have total control of the supply. Only if manufacturing is allowed in dust, which I god hope will never happen. The dust market has to have a base price and a base supply. Until mercs can affect the resource supply needed, either by capturing Planetary Infrastructure or whatever, the EvE economy will prevail over dust. As for material costs on the EvE side, not really an issue, the price can be high if the amount of end product is high too i.e. 5000 GEK's for a single BP run. The sale price of those GEK's will be reduced. GôêGÆ+GÆ+GÆ¦ - Bringing the dakka [The whiny Scout]

Rogue Saint Science For Death 468	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:32:00 - [21] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: if I could just make gear for myself, contract it to me for 1 ISK per piece of gear....what's to stop me from always running proto until the end of time? There is nothing stopping you, the "cost" is to your EvE char. GôêGÆ+GÆ+GÆ¦ - Bringing the dakka [The whiny Scout]
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 7994	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:34:00 - [22] - Quote Rogue Saint wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: if I could just make gear for myself, contract it to me for 1 ISK per piece of gear....what's to stop me from always running proto until the end of time? There is nothing stopping you, the "cost" is to your EvE char. That's what I'm saying though. The cost to my EVE character would be negligible at best, considering the current cost of equipment. I can earn 1 million ISK in EVE in a couple of minutes, try doing that in DUST >_< Read / Vid / Stream
Rogue Saint Science For Death 468	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:38:00 - [23] - Quote I'm sure CCP are aware of that, I know I will be doing the same. CCP are happy though, they get you paying/playing for your EvE subscription. GôêGÆ+GÆ+GÆ¦ - Bringing the dakka [The whiny Scout]
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4049	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:39:00 - [24] - Quote Rogue Saint wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Rogue Saint wrote: NPC's will still seed the market, EvE players will then have to undercut the price of the NPC's ... Simple. The price should never go above the NPC price, end result being we get cheaper items. The economics of this will be at the EvE side with material costs etc. Temporary yes. But not permanently. Eventually the npc supply will need to be removed and finally let the players have total control of the supply. Only if manufacturing is allowed in dust, which I god hope will never happen. The dust market has to have a base price and a base supply. Until mercs can affect the resource supply needed, either by capturing Planetary Infrastructure or whatever, the EvE economy will prevail over dust. As for material costs on the EvE side, not really an issue, the price can be high if the amount of end product is high too i.e. 5000 GEK's for a single BP run. The sale price of those GEK's will be reduced. Why shouldn't Dust mercs be capable of manufacturing? Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 7995	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:39:00 - [25] - Quote Rogue Saint wrote: I'm sure CCP are aware of that, I know I will be doing the same. CCP are happy though, they get you paying/playing for your EvE subscription. Hey man, I'm not arguing for or against at this point, just trying to provide some more viewpoints for the debate. It seems like if you'd want to thrive at DUST, you'd need an EVE account, or at the very least be good friends with someone who does. I can see why they've waited so long to merge the economies in any way though, what with all the different ways to abuse it. Read / Vid / Stream
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK 280	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:47:00 - [26] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: I was pondering today, how exactly would this work. If the market is controlled only by players, where would players acquire the Items to be sold in the Market? In order to have a sustainable economy in DUST, players would need a method harvesting resources, researching technology, and producing the infantry gear and vehicles we would expect to see in the market. Is the goal to only have EVE players manufacture DUST infantry Vehicles and Gear? What happens when EVE players decide to arbitrarily drive up the cost of Infantry Items to the Point of DUST players not being able to afford them? Would everyone without EVE contacts or Corp Members, or a PC ISK farm be forced to use only Starter fits? This would elevate the current Epidemic of Protostomping into Pandemic status. What are some of your thoughts on this, CCP? What direction are you taking when the implementation of a Player market becomes a reality? EVE Online, man. Why would anyone in their right mind want to build things in a shooter? Just let the EVE players do it. And please don't anyone start spouting ******** bullshit about how EVE players will make GEK's 3 million each just to spite us. People who do industry are in it for the MONEY. If they don't make MONEY they go bankrupt. Therefore it is in the best interest of all the players producing assets to make them affordable so that we will buy them and they will make money. This is ground-floor basic economics people. Stop being scared of getting worked over and look at the big picture. EVE industrialists are so well off, and wellsupplied that money isn't a factor to most. I crash frigate and cruiser markets just for the lulz bud, 3 million geks could happen quite easily. Inverse of that is the struggling or new indy player who will chase the infantry market and realize that it's going to be heavily saturated with high high supply and steady demand. Profits will be razor thin to the point that a lot if players will stop feeding it. Then equilibrium the under supply b then over. ...repeat until the end if time. Now granted the second case might be more in DUST players favor, but the price will still be set by EVE. It's ugly and unsightly and I really don't see it going that smooth ever, EVE side DUST production but we'll find iut Dust players should be just as susceptible to market manipulation as EVE players. It's all New Eden. Oh I totally agree, I'm just giving out a slight warning as well as s subtle bump for just hyper basic manufacturing in DUST. Something witty here. How DOES one get a cat into a dropsuit?
Rogue Saint Science For Death 468	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:50:00 - [27] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Why shouldn't Dust mercs be capable of manufacturing? To me it just goes against the whole lore of mercs and why they were created. I can't imagine being a dust-bear and mining/collecting resources! It's not for the console either. The whole indy system in New Eden is way too complex to translate to a console IMHO. - Buying BPO's - Researching them to make them better (use less material and quick production) - Making BPC's (copies) - Getting the resources (mining?? PI??) - Doing invention to get proto grear??? - Getting invention materials to actually perform invention! - Spread sheets for the entire chain! - Etc. DUST Fiend wrote: It seems like if you'd want to thrive at DUST, you'd need an EVE account, or at the very least be good friends with someone who does. I can see why they've waited so long to merge the economies in any way though, what with all the different ways to abuse it. Agreed. Going back to your other point though, whats the difference in me buying the BPO, mining all the resources, Moon Mining and reacting the more exotic stuff and then using PI to get the missing parts? It's what I've done for years in EvE to get "free" ships. The cost to me is my time. GôêGÆ+GÆ+GÆ¦ - Bringing the dakka [The whiny Scout]
Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 69	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:25:00 - [28] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Salvaged items. And stuff you buy no longer want and sell back Buy won't be that active until we get Indy. Without industry you'd just see the ISK farming corps buy up EVERYTHING, and then refuse to sell it, effectively choking out the majority of the "competition" before it even got up and running. Not likely to happen. If prices are too high, then consumers will stop buying and switch to something else. Then the suppliers end up wasting money and time as they have to constantly keep buying up all the stuff going on market every second of every day that is trying to undercut their artificially inflated prices. In the end it's not worth it.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8002	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:28:00 - [29] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Salvaged items. And stuff you buy no longer want and sell back Buy won't be that active until we get Indy. Without industry you'd just see the ISK farming corps buy up EVERYTHING, and then refuse to sell it, effectively choking out the majority of the "competition" before it even got up and running. Not likely to happen. If prices are too high, then consumers will stop buying and switch to something else. Then the suppliers end up wasting money and time as they have to constantly keep buying up all the stuff going on market every second of every day that is trying to undercut their artificially inflated prices. In the end it's not worth it. But if you could buy up, say, all the prototype ARs and Scrambler rifles, you would simply dominate any PC match ever because the enemy wouldn't be able to field the most basic of equipment because they couldn't buy it. When you consider the insane amount of ISK some corps are sitting on, it's far from out of the question. It might not turn a direct profit since you aren't selling those weapons, but it turns a profit because no one can shake you from your planets, and you just rake in insane ISK each day because you've got all the gear. Read / Vid / Stream
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5333	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:28:00 - [30] - Quote Rogue Saint wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Rogue Saint wrote: NPC's will still seed the market, EvE players will then have to undercut the price of the NPC's ... Simple. The price should never go above the NPC price, end result being we get cheaper items. The economics of this will be at the EvE side with material costs etc. Temporary yes. But not permanently. Eventually the npc supply will need to be removed and finally let the players have total control of the supply. Only if manufacturing is allowed in dust, which I god hope will never happen. The dust market has to have a base price and a base supply. Until mercs can affect the resource supply needed, either by capturing Planetary Infrastructure or whatever, the EvE economy will prevail over dust. As for material costs on the EvE side, not really an issue, the price can be high if the amount of end product is high too i.e. 5000 GEK's for a single BP run. The sale price of those GEK's will be reduced. **** no. No base price and no base supply other than the initial seeding of the npc items which should be removed later on once players manage to create a sustainable supply of their own. Eve online has the most balanced and most powerful economy in the entire mmo market because of this concept. It worked well in Eve and therefore it will happen in DUST. You know why? It has to work like that anyways because eventually DUST will have its economy merge with the Eve economy. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.



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