I'm guessing that we won't be seeing the end of the NPC sellers any time soon. Players will have to undercut them in order to sell their salvage and other unwanted gear. NPCs will effectively set the high end for pricing except for officer gear. If that is bought up they'll end up making those that find it in salvage very rich. Once that gear is too expensive even the rich mercs will hesitate to waste it in anything other than tournaments.

To me it just goes against the whole lore of mercs and why they were created. I can't imagine being a dust-bear and mining/collecting resources! It's not for the console either. The whole indy system in New Eden is way too complex to translate to a console IMHO.

- Buying BPO's
- Researching them to make them better (use less material and quick production)
- Making BPC's (copies)
- Getting the resources (mining?? PI??)
- Doing invention to get proto grear???
- Getting invention materials to actually perform invention!
- Spread sheets for the entire chain!
- Etc.



Agreed. Going back to your other point though, whats the difference in me buying the BPO, mining all the resources, Moon Mining and reacting the more exotic stuff and then using PI to get the missing parts? It's what I've done for years in EvE to get "free" ships. The cost to me is my time.

With the disparity between DUST and EVE ISK, you'd have to imagine that the cost to produce items in EVE would end up being more than they're worth in DUST, thus making it so that, at least for a while, no one would bother manufacturing for DUST unless it was for their alliance / corp and they were being compensated EVE side, since DUST side would only lose them money.

We need PvE and real salvage, is what we need.

But if you could buy up, say, all the prototype ARs and Scrambler rifles, you would simply dominate any PC match ever because the enemy wouldn't be able to field the most basic of equipment because they couldn't buy it.

When you consider the insane amount of ISK some corps are sitting on, it's far from out of the question. It might not turn a direct profit since you aren't selling those weapons, but it turns a profit because no one can shake you from your planets, and you just rake in insane ISK each day because you've got all the gear.

The market will stabilize itself.
Soon players will see the vacuum and produce more.

They can't keep buying forever from 500k EVE players

In pc when you own a district you should be allowed to build industry on it that provides resources eve players can buy

Dust mercs go through their gear much faster.
Losing 10 proto suits (battleships) within the space of 15 minutes is extremely rare.

Hey, I'd love to have my EVE character pumping out gear for me, the main thing though is finding a balance where A.) the resources are less costly than what they're sold for and B.) not so cheap that there is no reason to ever not produce your own gear. I'm not too in the know on how industry works, I just know that there is so much room for abuse with a system like that. I can make hundreds of millions of ISK in EVE just being the total noob that I am, if I could just make gear for myself, contract it to me for 1 ISK per piece of gear....what's to stop me from always running proto until the end of time?

Only if manufacturing is allowed in dust, which I god hope will never happen. The dust market has to have a base price and a base supply. Until mercs can affect the resource supply needed, either by capturing Planetary Infrastructure or whatever, the EvE economy will prevail over dust.

As for material costs on the EvE side, not really an issue, the price can be high if the amount of end product is high too i.e. 5000 GEK's for a single BP run. The sale price of those GEK's will be reduced.

Why shouldn't Dust mercs be capable of manufacturing?

Hey man, I'm not arguing for or against at this point, just trying to provide some more viewpoints for the debate. It seems like if you'd want to thrive at DUST, you'd need an EVE account, or at the very least be good friends with someone who does.

I can see why they've waited so long to merge the economies in any way though, what with all the different ways to abuse it.

Agreed. Going back to your other point though, whats the difference in me buying the BPO, mining all the resources, Moon Mining and reacting the more exotic stuff and then using PI to get the missing parts? It's what I've done for years in EvE to get "free" ships. The cost to me is my time.

But if you could buy up, say, all the prototype ARs and Scrambler rifles, you would simply dominate any PC match ever because the enemy wouldn't be able to field the most basic of equipment because they couldn't buy it.

When you consider the insane amount of ISK some corps are sitting on, it's far from out of the question. It might not turn a direct profit since you aren't selling those weapons, but it turns a profit because no one can shake you from your planets, and you just rake in insane ISK each day because you've got all the gear.

They'll be AFKing in FW to earn LP to sell you LP gear.

That will be the industry until they remove all ISK, SP, and LP generation from passive participation in battles.

You also have to take into account the "insane amounts of market PVP" that occurs in EVE online. The EVE market is insanely HUGE and there are many many players that do nothing other than poll the markets for money making opportunities.

Besides, as stated above by others, CCP will initially have NPC manufacturers set the high-end prices and EVE players will only be able to price-fix to a point.

Jadd, I like you. Solid and logical replies, IMHO. And I'm glad someone noticed the irregular comparison of proto suits to battleships. I'm not knocking the intent, just an off comparison.

Why shouldn't mercs take part in industry:
Because we're mercs ;( We are professionals for hire to kill and be killed. Our purpose is death, not creation. I believe a secondary access to the market is just fine though (i.e., selling surplus gear and salvage). Hell, maybe even limited access to refining surplus to then sell the raw materials on the open market, but without access to skill into the refinement efficiencies and such EVE subscribers have access to. Perhaps an NPC interface from our merc quarters with flat fees or percentage commissions across the boards. That could evolve in time into something more.

If lore isn't enough of a justification, then consider it from a business standpoint. Players subscribe to EVE with a monthly fee. Some choose to go the way of the industrialist to support the market created by PVP and PVE mission runners. Why, from a profitability standpoint, would I offer that same access to a non-subscribing gamer on what is technically another game? If you could manufacture and skill into industry, mining, refining, transport, etc., then you are negating 1) your purpose as a merc, and 2) an entire paying player base that could seriously undermine the entire economy of EVE. Why should an industrialist on the EVE side continue subbing if they could do the same thing through Dust for free?

Yes, an EVE-based industrialist can also skill into PVP, PVE, etc., etc., without diminishing skills in market-based gaming, so why not Dust mercs? It's the same universe, for sure. Unfortunately we are still tethered to the commercial reality here. We all signed up to be mercs in a F2P environment. While I do believe us mercs should and will have limited access to the market for purchasing and selling of surplus, that access should be restricted to our own tiny little ecosystem---as it is within EVE. If an EVE industrialist wants to sell beyond the system, that player transports or hires a transport/escort provider. I simply do not have the logistics, as a merc, to do that. If I want to do that, then I will sub-up and EVE account and gain such privileges.

Down the road I can definitely see a path that would evolve, allowing Dust mercs (probably only corps really) to reverse affect the EVE market through skilled-gained manipulation, but what that entails is beyond me without first seeing our economies merged.

I should also note, before someone points it out for me, I think Dust PVE would be just fine in gaining salvage, isk, or even minerals through side-missions or even minimal mining of scattered ore loads that were too small and abandoned by larger industry corps or even salvaging of abandoned equipment from those same corps, all available to be traded and sold as a merc to the open market without our local systems. I would even love, possibly, to see rare minerals or salvaged loot that could only be discovered as a merc, on the ground, by hand. This thought would give a bit of balance as well as handing a bit of leverage to the individual Dust merc/corp over the EVE-side industrialists. Alliances could develop, bargains made, trades brokered, etc. Anyway, that's neither here nor there. I'm just throwing that out to be clear that I am NOT one-sided on this. I just think everyone is making way too many assumptions based on limited experience of the bigger picture here. The two economies are still but two economies. Baby steps and such.

The big boys in EVE will hoard the good stuff while mercs suffer
Sure, in a simple view of things. Those alliances have their own ecosystems. Of course they will produce for "theirs" and sell the surplus for profit and even at inflated margins----for as long as the market allows them to. They will provide their Dust brothers and sisters with all the gear they need to maintain their corporation/alliance hold over whatever resources they desire. Oh woe to the limited smaller Dust corps abound, and death to those that dare run solo. That is until the little guys of EVE enter in. let the big fish eat big fish and cannibalize each other until their bellies are full. The smaller fish will scavenge the waste and drops left behind and find a sub-market willing to feed along side.

Smaller corp and individual industrialists will undercut the ridiculously over priced gear in one system, while filling the vacuum created in another. There's an entire market to do nothing but to buy low in system A, transport, and sell high in System B in EVE. Those channels already exist and can be used to do the same to provide for Dust mercs, with even an entire market dedicated to camping and pirating those intersecting waypoints along the established trade routes, which in turn creates a player base willing to escort those transports to assist in protection-----using mercs as mercs doing those wonderful mercy things that only mercs can do.


I ramble.
TL/DR: We all have a role. We are just artificially limited atm, due to a separation of our economies.

All the best,

- me.

Beautiful. Just beautiful.

CLAP CLAP CLAP....