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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
7990
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Posted - 2013.11.26 14:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:Salvaged items. And stuff you buy no longer want and sell back
Buy won't be that active until we get Indy.
Without industry you'd just see the ISK farming corps buy up EVERYTHING, and then refuse to sell it, effectively choking out the majority of the "competition" before it even got up and running.
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
7993
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Posted - 2013.11.26 15:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:I was pondering today, how exactly would this work.
If the market is controlled only by players, where would players acquire the Items to be sold in the Market?
In order to have a sustainable economy in DUST, players would need a method harvesting resources, researching technology, and producing the infantry gear and vehicles we would expect to see in the market.
Is the goal to only have EVE players manufacture DUST infantry Vehicles and Gear? What happens when EVE players decide to arbitrarily drive up the cost of Infantry Items to the Point of DUST players not being able to afford them? Would everyone without EVE contacts or Corp Members, or a PC ISK farm be forced to use only Starter fits? This would elevate the current Epidemic of Protostomping into Pandemic status.
What are some of your thoughts on this, CCP? What direction are you taking when the implementation of a Player market becomes a reality? EVE Online, man. Why would anyone in their right mind want to build things in a shooter? Just let the EVE players do it. And please don't anyone start spouting ******** bullshit about how EVE players will make GEK's 3 million each just to spite us. People who do industry are in it for the MONEY. If they don't make MONEY they go bankrupt. Therefore it is in the best interest of all the players producing assets to make them affordable so that we will buy them and they will make money. This is ground-floor basic economics people. Stop being scared of getting worked over and look at the big picture.
With the disparity between DUST and EVE ISK, you'd have to imagine that the cost to produce items in EVE would end up being more than they're worth in DUST, thus making it so that, at least for a while, no one would bother manufacturing for DUST unless it was for their alliance / corp and they were being compensated EVE side, since DUST side would only lose them money.
We need PvE and real salvage, is what we need.
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
7993
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Posted - 2013.11.26 15:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:All it takes is the resource cost being exceptionally low, which it would be because the assets are so small.
Also, I just had a short conversation on this with Cat Merc, and thought it might address the pricing issue some have brought up even further:
[10:13:35 AM] Cheshire Cat: Yeah, Dust players are scared of EVE players setting the prices too high
[10:14:02 AM] Cheshire Cat: In that case I would just go into EVE, create a fuckton of weapons at a reasonable price, and laugh as the attempts of those trying to **** with Dust go to waste
[10:14:12 AM] Midnight(Mobius): EXACTLY
[10:14:21 AM] Cheshire Cat: AND make a quick buck out of it
[10:14:25 AM] Midnight(Mobius): All it takes is ONE guy undercutting all the assholes, and they all lose everything
[10:14:35 AM] Midnight(Mobius): And that one guy is rolling in ISK while being a hero while he's at it
This pretty much sums it up. Anyone actually producing Dust assets cannot take the risk of being undercut, same as it is with EVE.
I figure that, just like they said at FanFest 2013, industry would be best left to the game which has had a lot of people gaining a lot of experience in this stuff over several years, and has a robust economy that will do a good job of controlling pricing and keeping everything affordable.
Hey, I'd love to have my EVE character pumping out gear for me, the main thing though is finding a balance where A.) the resources are less costly than what they're sold for and B.) not so cheap that there is no reason to ever not produce your own gear. I'm not too in the know on how industry works, I just know that there is so much room for abuse with a system like that. I can make hundreds of millions of ISK in EVE just being the total noob that I am, if I could just make gear for myself, contract it to me for 1 ISK per piece of gear....what's to stop me from always running proto until the end of time?
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
7994
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Posted - 2013.11.26 15:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rogue Saint wrote:DUST Fiend wrote: if I could just make gear for myself, contract it to me for 1 ISK per piece of gear....what's to stop me from always running proto until the end of time? There is nothing stopping you, the "cost" is to your EvE char.
That's what I'm saying though. The cost to my EVE character would be negligible at best, considering the current cost of equipment. I can earn 1 million ISK in EVE in a couple of minutes, try doing that in DUST >_<
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DUST Fiend
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7995
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Posted - 2013.11.26 15:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Rogue Saint wrote:I'm sure CCP are aware of that, I know I will be doing the same. CCP are happy though, they get you paying/playing for your EvE subscription.
Hey man, I'm not arguing for or against at this point, just trying to provide some more viewpoints for the debate. It seems like if you'd want to thrive at DUST, you'd need an EVE account, or at the very least be good friends with someone who does.
I can see why they've waited so long to merge the economies in any way though, what with all the different ways to abuse it.
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
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8002
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Posted - 2013.11.26 16:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:Salvaged items. And stuff you buy no longer want and sell back
Buy won't be that active until we get Indy. Without industry you'd just see the ISK farming corps buy up EVERYTHING, and then refuse to sell it, effectively choking out the majority of the "competition" before it even got up and running. Not likely to happen. If prices are too high, then consumers will stop buying and switch to something else. Then the suppliers end up wasting money and time as they have to constantly keep buying up all the stuff going on market every second of every day that is trying to undercut their artificially inflated prices. In the end it's not worth it.
But if you could buy up, say, all the prototype ARs and Scrambler rifles, you would simply dominate any PC match ever because the enemy wouldn't be able to field the most basic of equipment because they couldn't buy it.
When you consider the insane amount of ISK some corps are sitting on, it's far from out of the question. It might not turn a direct profit since you aren't selling those weapons, but it turns a profit because no one can shake you from your planets, and you just rake in insane ISK each day because you've got all the gear.
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
8003
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Posted - 2013.11.26 16:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Jadd Hatchen wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:Salvaged items. And stuff you buy no longer want and sell back
Buy won't be that active until we get Indy. Without industry you'd just see the ISK farming corps buy up EVERYTHING, and then refuse to sell it, effectively choking out the majority of the "competition" before it even got up and running. Not likely to happen. If prices are too high, then consumers will stop buying and switch to something else. Then the suppliers end up wasting money and time as they have to constantly keep buying up all the stuff going on market every second of every day that is trying to undercut their artificially inflated prices. In the end it's not worth it. But if you could buy up, say, all the prototype ARs and Scrambler rifles, you would simply dominate any PC match ever because the enemy wouldn't be able to field the most basic of equipment because they couldn't buy it. When you consider the insane amount of ISK some corps are sitting on, it's far from out of the question. It might not turn a direct profit since you aren't selling those weapons, but it turns a profit because no one can shake you from your planets, and you just rake in insane ISK each day because you've got all the gear. The market will stabilize itself. Soon players will see the vacuum and produce more. They can't keep buying forever from 500k EVE players 
I was actually stating that in response to the initial part that was quoted, just selling assets that are already in DUST and nothing more. If we just changed it over to player market without EVE, this is what would happen in like, a day.
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