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Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1376
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Posted - 2013.11.26 19:11:00 -
[61] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Kristoff Atruin wrote:I keep seeing this statement that logis can move around just as well as assaults, which anyone who has played as a logi in a squad with an assault buddy knows is not true. You *can not* keep up with the assault suit, even in a minmatar logi. The people making this terrible argument that there is no difference are only looking at the base speed, and not the stamina. Seriously, go try it. To get the full effect do it with an assault player who expects the logi to always be on his ass with the rep tool out. I guarantee he'll be raging wondering why you aren't keeping up when you've been doing nothing but trying to catch up the whole time.
Stamina acts like a multiplier for how far you can move in a given amount of time. Once the stamina is gone you're basically dead in the water as far as mobility goes. If I were trying to "assault" a position I'd take the assault suit any day. If I'm defending one, I'll take the logi. All good until you realize that my logi suit has a stamina module and is still much more effective than my assault 
Yeah I use a stamina module on my minlogi suit too, but you know what? Even with nothing but extenders in my highs the assault suit now has more tank than me, and still has a slight mobility advantage because his base speed is higher. You can use the logi frame to do many different things, but it can't do them all at once.
This whole thing is a ******** argument coming from expectations that class x does y and only y. Then they see "class" x do z instead of y and omg they're better at everything. As long as we have custom fittings this absurd drama is going to continue. At least until people actually try playing all of the suits and start to learn about what they are and are not best at. Logis are not the best at attacking a position. The argument has been that they have the hp of a heavy (almost) so they can outlast an assault suit in a slugging match, and that the speed doesn't matter. You can compensate for speed with a module, but it comes at the expense of hp.
There is no way that your stamina boosted logi can win this idealized slugging match with an assault suit which all these threads are based around. |
Maximus Stryker
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
698
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Posted - 2013.11.26 19:19:00 -
[62] - Quote
i support logis not having a light weapon.
It is the simplest way to make the suits have primary functions
Faction Channels for FW Staging
PIE Ground Control | Caldari Hierarchy | Turalyon | Chosen Matari
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Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
167
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Posted - 2013.11.26 19:38:00 -
[63] - Quote
Once again I quote my doc from my time in the Marines, "The best way I can help you guys out is to kill the enemy."
Logis need to kill. This cannot be argued.
HOWEVER
Assault suits need to be better at killing than logis. Because assaults have a really bad bonus for them, they need a bonus that's about killing things.
Remove the 10% damage buff from all weapons, give assaults 2% per level to damage instead of shield recharge, and require logis to fill all equipment slots. Can anyone argue against these changes? Tell me why these wouldn't work?
Logis get to keep their survivability, which is the pay off for not dealing as much damage as an assault. Yes, assaults need to have less hp than logis, because that's the tradeoff for dealing more damage.
The previous paragraph is assuming the changes I mentioned are put into effect. NOT for the way things are now. |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4056
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Posted - 2013.11.26 19:44:00 -
[64] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Kristoff Atruin wrote:I keep seeing this statement that logis can move around just as well as assaults, which anyone who has played as a logi in a squad with an assault buddy knows is not true. You *can not* keep up with the assault suit, even in a minmatar logi. The people making this terrible argument that there is no difference are only looking at the base speed, and not the stamina. Seriously, go try it. To get the full effect do it with an assault player who expects the logi to always be on his ass with the rep tool out. I guarantee he'll be raging wondering why you aren't keeping up when you've been doing nothing but trying to catch up the whole time.
Stamina acts like a multiplier for how far you can move in a given amount of time. Once the stamina is gone you're basically dead in the water as far as mobility goes. If I were trying to "assault" a position I'd take the assault suit any day. If I'm defending one, I'll take the logi. All good until you realize that my logi suit has a stamina module and is still much more effective than my assault Yeah I use a stamina module on my minlogi suit too, but you know what? Even with nothing but extenders in my highs the assault suit now has more tank than me, and still has a slight mobility advantage because his base speed is higher. You can use the logi frame to do many different things, but it can't do them all at once. This whole thing is a ******** argument coming from expectations that class x does y and only y. Then they see "class" x do z instead of y and omg they're better at everything. As long as we have custom fittings this absurd drama is going to continue. At least until people actually try playing all of the suits and start to learn about what they are and are not best at. Logis are not the best at attacking a position. The argument has been that they have the hp of a heavy (almost) so they can outlast an assault suit in a slugging match, and that the speed doesn't matter. You can compensate for speed with a module, but it comes at the expense of hp. There is no way that your stamina boosted logi can win this idealized slugging match with an assault suit which all these threads are based around.
Uhh...
My logi with the stamina has more tank...
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Dachande Anasazi
Imperfect Bastards
119
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Posted - 2013.11.26 19:51:00 -
[65] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:calisk galern wrote:what do you really think will change when you nerf logi's?
assuming the change is indeed effective enough to push logi's out of the slayer role, then people will just transition into assaults and nothing will change.
the nerf train never ends just keeps on chugging to the next fotm.
regardless I was looking forward to speccing into my next suit. and nothing will change.Yes it will. The whole point of this nerf is to stop logis from filling the roles of everyone, in addition to having a fuckton of equipment. Right now, an assault logi can be better than any assault, and still have 4 equipment making them even more versatile. Assaults - are supposed to be the frontline units, that can react to a quickly changing battlefield. Logistics - are supposed to keep everyone topped up, and provide covering fire when needed (but not be the ultimate killing machine). They can also use their slots to set up defences, like triage hives in places where they will hold their ground, remote explosives to take care of coming infantry and vehicles, etc'. Scouts - are supposed to get behind enemy lines, tell the team mates where everyone is, and take out lone targets/high priority targets. Heavies - are supposed to be able to push forward slowly while suppressing the enemy and being hard to take down without staying out of cover for a long time, allowing to breach heavily fortified areas, and also defending places.
Logi can only be used as you say as the 'ultimate killing machines' because the OTHER suits need a buff. |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4057
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Posted - 2013.11.26 19:52:00 -
[66] - Quote
Dachande Anasazi wrote:Cat Merc wrote:calisk galern wrote:what do you really think will change when you nerf logi's?
assuming the change is indeed effective enough to push logi's out of the slayer role, then people will just transition into assaults and nothing will change.
the nerf train never ends just keeps on chugging to the next fotm.
regardless I was looking forward to speccing into my next suit. and nothing will change.Yes it will. The whole point of this nerf is to stop logis from filling the roles of everyone, in addition to having a fuckton of equipment. Right now, an assault logi can be better than any assault, and still have 4 equipment making them even more versatile. Assaults - are supposed to be the frontline units, that can react to a quickly changing battlefield. Logistics - are supposed to keep everyone topped up, and provide covering fire when needed (but not be the ultimate killing machine). They can also use their slots to set up defences, like triage hives in places where they will hold their ground, remote explosives to take care of coming infantry and vehicles, etc'. Scouts - are supposed to get behind enemy lines, tell the team mates where everyone is, and take out lone targets/high priority targets. Heavies - are supposed to be able to push forward slowly while suppressing the enemy and being hard to take down without staying out of cover for a long time, allowing to breach heavily fortified areas, and also defending places. Logi can only be used as you say as the 'ultimate killing machines' because the OTHER suits need a buff.
It's all relative.
Logi can be nerfed, and the others will have a use.
Others can buffed, and the logi will be put in line.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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