DUST Search - Why the "True Logi" argument is false

All Channels

General Discussions

Why the "True Logi" argument is false

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4042	Posted - 2013.11.26 13:40:00 - [1] - Quote I see this argument a lot. "I need tons and tons of HP so I can help everyone, I don't even use my weapon". That's good and all, and I am happy to see people still do their job as a logi. However, that doesn't mean that it can't be abused. Examples: People took used the TAC AR from long range supporting their squad that advances closer to the enemy. People used direct hits on the flaylock, as a high skill high reward weapon. People used the dumb fire on swarms to fire at vehicles without lock on. So they are reducing the time they are exposed at the cost of the missiles not tracking the target. All of these instances show how it's supposed to be done, but people found ways to abuse those: TAC AR was used in CQC as it was basically an AR with more range and more DPS and accurate hip fire Flaylock was used as a easy crutch to either kill, or heavily wound players without having to put any effort into aiming. People used to fire swarms at their feet to kill everyone around them. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4042	Posted - 2013.11.26 13:49:00 - [2] - Quote calisk galern wrote: what do you really think will change when you nerf logi's? assuming the change is indeed effective enough to push logi's out of the slayer role, then people will just transition into assaults and nothing will change. the nerf train never ends just keeps on chugging to the next fotm. regardless I was looking forward to speccing into my next suit. and nothing will change. Yes it will. The whole point of this nerf is to stop logis from filling the roles of everyone, in addition to having a fuckton of equipment. Right now, an assault logi can be better than any assault, and still have 4 equipment making them even more versatile. Assaults are supposed to be the frontline units, that can react to a quickly changing battlefield. Logistics are supposed to keep everyone topped up, and provide covering fire when needed (but not be the ultimate killing machine) Scouts are supposed to get behind enemy lines, tell the team mates where everyone is, and take out lone targets/high priority targets. Heavies are supposed to be able to push forward slowly while suppressing the enemy and being hard to take down without staying out of cover for a long time, allowing to breach heavily fortified areas, and also defending places. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4042	Posted - 2013.11.26 13:50:00 - [3] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: On the contrary, if they transition to assault suits then assaults will have to deal with assaults with similar capabilities and EHP pool. It will be fair. Right now, most logi builds are greatly superior to their assault variants. Logistic suits are supposed to be the weakest combat suit. Even scout is supposed to be more competent. Instead, it is pretty much the best. That is wrong. Pretty much this. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4042	Posted - 2013.11.26 13:52:00 - [4] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: calisk galern wrote: what do you really think will change when you nerf logi's? assuming the change is indeed effective enough to push logi's out of the slayer role, then people will just transition into assaults and nothing will change. the nerf train never ends just keeps on chugging to the next fotm. regardless I was looking forward to speccing into my next suit. So Assault suits being used to assault with = bad ? right ..... Indeed. BTW tell Deranged Disaster I said meow. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4042	Posted - 2013.11.26 14:00:00 - [5] - Quote calisk galern wrote: nope assaults being slayers will not be bad, but it's effectively no different then logi's being slayers, sure their will be less equipment around, but most equipment is just drop and forget anyway so I don't expect those numbers to go down all that much. battles will mostly be the same as they currently are. what major change do you expect to see on the battlefield with less slayer logis, slayer assaults operate exactly the same way on the battlefield. the only real difference is the sp invested by some players into assault( me included ) will be validated. a rose by any other name would smell just as sweet, if assaults were called suit 1, and logi's called suit 2, what justification for them not being slayers would you have? But that's the thing. Assaults are supposed to be that. I literally would not care if they removed assaults and made logistics the only medium frame suit. But as long as there is assault, it needs a use. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4042	Posted - 2013.11.26 14:01:00 - [6] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: On the contrary, if they transition to assault suits then assaults will have to deal with assaults with similar capabilities and EHP pool. It will be fair. Right now, most logi builds are greatly superior to their assault variants. Logistic suits are supposed to be the weakest combat suit. Even scout is supposed to be more competent. Instead, it is pretty much the best. That is wrong. The logistic is a support role and in nearly every game I played support roles always were capable at fighting they should indee be less effective at doing this. Bu the only arguments I hear is that logis can outtank assaults and are therefore better at assaulting any other advantage the assault hast gets ignored. IF the raw HP is the reason logis are better than assaults in assaulting than why does nobody complains about heavies (even more HP and can use the AR as well) or if you assaults want that HP so badly why do not go for a heavy suit? Because a heavy has no equipnemt and is SIGNIFICANTLY slower. A logi isn't that much slower than assaults. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4042	Posted - 2013.11.26 14:11:00 - [7] - Quote Sev Alcatraz wrote: Just give logi suits 1 high and 1 low problem solved and i can then feel confident enough to pull out my proto amarr assault with the proto imperial rifle and proceed to kill them. Instead of running from the healers That would kill the logi... Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4042	Posted - 2013.11.26 14:12:00 - [8] - Quote Thorgen Ra'Koldor wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I see this argument a lot. "I need tons and tons of HP so I can help everyone, I don't even use my weapon". That's good and all, and I am happy to see people still do their job as a logi. However, that doesn't mean that it can't be abused. Examples: People used the TAC AR from long range supporting their squad that advanced closer to the enemy. People used direct hits on the flaylock, as a high skill high reward weapon. People used the dumb fire on swarms to fire at vehicles without lock on. So they are reducing the time they are exposed at the cost of the missiles not tracking the target. All of these instances show how it's supposed to be done, but people found ways to abuse those: TAC AR was used in CQC as it was basically an AR with more range and more DPS and accurate hip fire Flaylock was used as a easy crutch to either kill, or heavily wound players without having to put any effort into aiming. People used to fire swarms at their feet to kill everyone around them. If you nerf logi's then Assault suits need to have their equipment slot removed ....why should a slayer suit get an equipment slot if logi's are supposed to be the ones with equipment ??? I see assaults switching suits at supply depots to put down uplinks .. and then hives .. and then run around with a scanner/repper/injector ... therefore assaults should have the equipment slot removed to stop them doing this because it makes a mockery of logi's having more equipment slots Sure, if logis get ALL of their weapons and grenades removed. See my point? Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4042	Posted - 2013.11.26 14:15:00 - [9] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: calisk galern wrote: what do you really think will change when you nerf logi's? assuming the change is indeed effective enough to push logi's out of the slayer role, then people will just transition into assaults and nothing will change. the nerf train never ends just keeps on chugging to the next fotm. regardless I was looking forward to speccing into my next suit. So Assault suits being used to assault with = bad ? right ..... Indeed. BTW tell Deranged Disaster I said meow. if i dont forget :p, i dont group up a whole lot Quote: Assaults are supposed to be the frontline units, that can react to a quickly changing battlefield. Logistics are supposed to keep everyone topped up, and provide covering fire when needed (but not be the ultimate killing machine) Scouts are supposed to get behind enemy lines, tell the team mates where everyone is, and take out lone targets/high priority targets. Heavies are supposed to be able to push forward slowly while suppressing the enemy and being hard to take down without staying out of cover for a long time, allowing to breach heavily fortified areas, and also defending places. You know what the funny thing is when you look at it, Logistics Suits are the GoTo if you want to be the best Assault machine Scouts Suits are most of the time used to Assault with, but get QQ when they get evaporated in the Assault Department Heavys see themselves as the need to be better Assault Suits, so they can take down multiple assault suits without breaking a sweat... and then theres the Actual Assault suit crying in the corner... Scouts are a bit useless... Their passive scan is 16m, yaaay... Acive scanner? Logi suit can do that in addition to having everything else. Stealthyness? They give up their already limited slots to stay hidden, making them useless when they actually try to take someone out. Speed? An Assault can put on one kin cat, and have more speed than the scout and still retaining more slots. So yeah, they have a reason to cry, just that they often cry for the wrong reason. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4044	Posted - 2013.11.26 14:18:00 - [10] - Quote calisk galern wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Thorgen Ra'Koldor wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I see this argument a lot. "I need tons and tons of HP so I can help everyone, I don't even use my weapon". That's good and all, and I am happy to see people still do their job as a logi. However, that doesn't mean that it can't be abused. Examples: People used the TAC AR from long range supporting their squad that advanced closer to the enemy. People used direct hits on the flaylock, as a high skill high reward weapon. People used the dumb fire on swarms to fire at vehicles without lock on. So they are reducing the time they are exposed at the cost of the missiles not tracking the target. All of these instances show how it's supposed to be done, but people found ways to abuse those: TAC AR was used in CQC as it was basically an AR with more range and more DPS and accurate hip fire Flaylock was used as a easy crutch to either kill, or heavily wound players without having to put any effort into aiming. People used to fire swarms at their feet to kill everyone around them. If you nerf logi's then Assault suits need to have their equipment slot removed ....why should a slayer suit get an equipment slot if logi's are supposed to be the ones with equipment ??? I see assaults switching suits at supply depots to put down uplinks .. and then hives .. and then run around with a scanner/repper/injector ... therefore assaults should have the equipment slot removed to stop them doing this because it makes a mockery of logi's having more equipment slots Sure, if logis get ALL of their weapons and grenades removed. See my point? eh i think he's right actually, if the nerf being handed down to logi's was in fact going to be reducing the light weapon to a side arm, then assaults should lose their equipment slot as well. this would further enforce their importance on the battle field. I didn't say remove their light slot... It really depends on what kind of nerf they do. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4044	Posted - 2013.11.26 14:20:00 - [11] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Sev Alcatraz wrote: Just give logi suits 1 high and 1 low problem solved and i can then feel confident enough to pull out my proto amarr assault with the proto imperial rifle and proceed to kill them. Instead of running from the healers I have both proto amarr assault and logistics, you area a complete nub if you can't wreck with an scr and especially on an amarr assault, maybe the game should play itself for you lol. The logi can still do it better :P Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4044	Posted - 2013.11.26 14:24:00 - [12] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Thorgen Ra'Koldor wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I see this argument a lot. "I need tons and tons of HP so I can help everyone, I don't even use my weapon". That's good and all, and I am happy to see people still do their job as a logi. However, that doesn't mean that it can't be abused. Examples: People used the TAC AR from long range supporting their squad that advanced closer to the enemy. People used direct hits on the flaylock, as a high skill high reward weapon. People used the dumb fire on swarms to fire at vehicles without lock on. So they are reducing the time they are exposed at the cost of the missiles not tracking the target. All of these instances show how it's supposed to be done, but people found ways to abuse those: TAC AR was used in CQC as it was basically an AR with more range and more DPS and accurate hip fire Flaylock was used as a easy crutch to either kill, or heavily wound players without having to put any effort into aiming. People used to fire swarms at their feet to kill everyone around them. If you nerf logi's then Assault suits need to have their equipment slot removed ....why should a slayer suit get an equipment slot if logi's are supposed to be the ones with equipment ??? I see assaults switching suits at supply depots to put down uplinks .. and then hives .. and then run around with a scanner/repper/injector ... therefore assaults should have the equipment slot removed to stop them doing this because it makes a mockery of logi's having more equipment slots This, seen as we are 'supposed' to be less effective at slaying, assaults should lose their equipment if we are 'supposed' to lose gunfights. Assaults are less effective at logi while logi are less effective at assault. Both can still do it to a small degree, just not close to the other. One equipment vs 4? I see your point, but it entirely depends on how much of a nerf they do. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4044	Posted - 2013.11.26 14:27:00 - [13] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: On the contrary, if they transition to assault suits then assaults will have to deal with assaults with similar capabilities and EHP pool. It will be fair. Right now, most logi builds are greatly superior to their assault variants. Logistic suits are supposed to be the weakest combat suit. Even scout is supposed to be more competent. Instead, it is pretty much the best. That is wrong. The logistic is a support role and in nearly every game I played support roles always were capable at fighting they should indee be less effective at doing this. Bu the only arguments I hear is that logis can outtank assaults and are therefore better at assaulting any other advantage the assault hast gets ignored. IF the raw HP is the reason logis are better than assaults in assaulting than why does nobody complains about heavies (even more HP and can use the AR as well) or if you assaults want that HP so badly why do not go for a heavy suit? Because a heavy has no equipnemt and is SIGNIFICANTLY slower. A logi isn't that much slower than assaults. Hmmm lets see based on the fittings I tried with the fitting tool: Gal Logi 1149HP; Speed: 3,63 m/s (could go up to 1221 HP when changing Dmg Mods against extenders) Cal Logi 1073HP; Speed: 3,82 m/s (could go up to 1145 HP when changing Dmg Mods against extenders) Amr Logi 1039HP; Speed:3,66 m/s Min Logi 1035HP; Speed: 4,07 m/s (could go up to 1107 HP when changing Dmg Mods against extenders) So the only Logi that is remarkable faster than a heavy is the Min Logi but the min Logi still has 93 HP less than a std Heavy. You call these numbers remarkable faster than a heavy? Just to remenber a std Heavy without Plates can have up to 1200 HP and a speed of 3.6 m/s BTW none of the ogi fittings has enough PG to use equipment and all use a duvolle AR Maybe because you're fitting a **** ton of plates? 800 - 900 HP is the average that logis have. It's more than enough, while still being SIGNIFICANTLY faster. You should also note they have 5hp/s. And heavies still don't have any equipment. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4044	Posted - 2013.11.26 14:28:00 - [14] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Cat Merc wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Sev Alcatraz wrote: Just give logi suits 1 high and 1 low problem solved and i can then feel confident enough to pull out my proto amarr assault with the proto imperial rifle and proceed to kill them. Instead of running from the healers I have both proto amarr assault and logistics, you area a complete nub if you can't wreck with an scr and especially on an amarr assault, maybe the game should play itself for you lol. The logi can still do it better :P In fact on page 1 you replied that that would kill the logi, furthermore rather than the talking about buffing the assault you continually just whine with no real constructive ideas, this thread is pure trash and you should be ashamed, im done here. Uhh... I meant current logi. What he suggested would kill the logi. What's your point? And I have no idea because that's not what this thread is about. It's about breaking this dumb argument that I see going around. You should be ashamed, GTFO. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4044	Posted - 2013.11.26 14:29:00 - [15] - Quote Toby Flenderson wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I see this argument a lot. "I need tons and tons of HP so I can help everyone, I don't even use my weapon". That's good and all, and I am happy to see people still do their job as a logi. However, that doesn't mean that it can't be abused. Examples: People used the TAC AR from long range supporting their squad that advanced closer to the enemy. People used direct hits on the flaylock, as a high skill high reward weapon. People used the dumb fire on swarms to fire at vehicles without lock on. So they are reducing the time they are exposed at the cost of the missiles not tracking the target. All of these instances show how it's supposed to be done, but people found ways to abuse those: TAC AR was used in CQC as it was basically an AR with more range and more DPS and accurate hip fire Flaylock was used as a easy crutch to either kill, or heavily wound players without having to put any effort into aiming. People used to fire swarms at their feet to kill everyone around them. This doesn't make the argument false. That is a good argument for why a logi would need a lot of health. If i spend more time defending other people then I'm not worrying as much about myself so I want more health to compensate. You're just pointing out that some people that use the argument are liars. There's nothing wrong with this argument in itself though. That is true. I am however pointing out that just because they use it for a good cause doesn't mean that others can't abuse it. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4044	Posted - 2013.11.26 14:48:00 - [16] - Quote xSir Campsalotx wrote: In the many pc battles i do a day i see the assualts getting the most kills im a heavy so no bias either way everyone kills me lol plus the logis lose a sidearm which is a big deal, me personally i find assualts harder to kill for the simple fact that they can maneuver around the battlefield and cover with ease while logis being as slow as they are susceptible to core grenades which is the most spammed weapon in pcs. Any tryhard match where players bring their maximum, even if it's dumb as **** and OP, I see mainly logis. I also rarely see proto Gallente assault in pub matches, only Gallente logi :\ Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4046	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:17:00 - [17] - Quote Chewie Parker wrote: it's more down to the fact that early on the logi was the thinking mans suite ,,, we are a class apart agreed , but that probably just stems from the fact that we have more base brain power than the other classes , like assult suit wearer's have a COD mentality . Logi is no longer the thinking mans suit. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4046	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:19:00 - [18] - Quote 50LD13R wrote: I'm prepared for the hate about to be directed my way so... I'm a logi and I only use side-arms (and the occasional Std. Mass Driver) and no damage mods. I feel we should either lose our light weapon or our grenade, and not be able to use damage mods. Let the hate begin... Not having damage mods is too restrictive. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4046	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:25:00 - [19] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: calisk galern wrote: what do you really think will change when you nerf logi's? assuming the change is indeed effective enough to push logi's out of the slayer role, then people will just transition into assaults and nothing will change. the nerf train never ends just keeps on chugging to the next fotm. regardless I was looking forward to speccing into my next suit. there wont be any more logi's and because of this heavies will disappear as well..all that will be left will be assault ar and assault scrambler rifle and assault rail rifle come 1.7...soon comes the time of the assault where assault is the only valid thing in dust..im not gunna run a nerfed logi for anyone..heavies will feel the pain the most when repper tools just vanish from battle ...im sure they have grown fond of them since the buff.. ammo wil become allot more scarce an injector being around will be a random occasional thing... lol Ask Jack Boost why heavy is a monster. Heavies can still use light weapons ya know Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4049	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:55:00 - [20] - Quote 50LD13R wrote: Cat Merc wrote: 50LD13R wrote: I'm prepared for the hate about to be directed my way so... I'm a logi and I only use side-arms (and the occasional Std. Mass Driver) and no damage mods. I feel we should either lose our light weapon or our grenade, and not be able to use damage mods. Let the hate begin... Not having damage mods is too restrictive. You may be right about that, what's your stance on the weapon issue? I like the idea of sidearm only, keeps the logi orientated to it's job, and can still defend itself though not very effectively. If the logi wants to give up survivability to make his sidearm stronger I approve of that. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4055	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:30:00 - [21] - Quote Argent Mordred wrote: Don't logistics suits get a reduction on equipment fitting costs? If not why not give them that, or if they already do, then enhance it. Then to balance, while increasing the fitting bonus (or keeping it the same depending on the needs of the game's balance,) give them a penalty to fitting shield/armor or damage mods. Then they still get to use a light weapon and can still fit lots of equipment while having some tank and gank, but the assault suits would be more useful. They would be better able to fit damage and shield/armor modules, as they would still only pay what they are now in fitting costs for ehp and damage modules (or even make their cost to fit these modules the same.) CPU/PG penalties wouldn't change crap, they would just run with even less equipment, but stay with their amazing power. Why? Because their base CPU/PG is humongous. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4056	Posted - 2013.11.26 18:53:00 - [22] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: I keep seeing this statement that logis can move around just as well as assaults, which anyone who has played as a logi in a squad with an assault buddy knows is not true. You can not keep up with the assault suit, even in a minmatar logi. The people making this terrible argument that there is no difference are only looking at the base speed, and not the stamina. Seriously, go try it. To get the full effect do it with an assault player who expects the logi to always be on his ass with the rep tool out. I guarantee he'll be raging wondering why you aren't keeping up when you've been doing nothing but trying to catch up the whole time. Stamina acts like a multiplier for how far you can move in a given amount of time. Once the stamina is gone you're basically dead in the water as far as mobility goes. If I were trying to "assault" a position I'd take the assault suit any day. If I'm defending one, I'll take the logi. All good until you realize that my logi suit has a stamina module and is still much more effective than my assault Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4056	Posted - 2013.11.26 18:55:00 - [23] - Quote Argent Mordred wrote: Cat Merc wrote: CPU/PG penalties wouldn't change crap, they would just run with even less equipment, but stay with their amazing power. Why? Because their base CPU/PG is humongous. Would reducing their cpu/pg help or are there problems with that? Say we made it so logis have only 15-20% more cpu/pg than assault suits, same amount of slots as they currently do, and 10-15% decrease on fitting costs of equipment; but in exchange the get a 10-15% fitting cost increase for damage and ehp mods. Maybe do the reverse for assaults, or give a reduction in cost for fitting damage and ehp mods; alternatively, maybe assault suits should get better radius? So logis are harder to detect slightly, but can't scan as far; and assaults can scan slightly farther than currently, allowing them to have a bit of a heads up when advancing on a position, but will still have more issues picking up scouts and logis on scans. Also do logis get more points from equipment than killing? I thought I had heard that claims on the forum that they did, but I am not a logi so I don't want to claim stuff I don't have proof of/experience with. How much would the fact that a logi can get significantly more wps from equipment usage than killing enemies (assuming this is/can be made to be true) going to affect a logi suit user's inclination to fit equipment vs. damage and tanking mods? Yes it would. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4056	Posted - 2013.11.26 19:44:00 - [24] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Kristoff Atruin wrote: I keep seeing this statement that logis can move around just as well as assaults, which anyone who has played as a logi in a squad with an assault buddy knows is not true. You can not keep up with the assault suit, even in a minmatar logi. The people making this terrible argument that there is no difference are only looking at the base speed, and not the stamina. Seriously, go try it. To get the full effect do it with an assault player who expects the logi to always be on his ass with the rep tool out. I guarantee he'll be raging wondering why you aren't keeping up when you've been doing nothing but trying to catch up the whole time. Stamina acts like a multiplier for how far you can move in a given amount of time. Once the stamina is gone you're basically dead in the water as far as mobility goes. If I were trying to "assault" a position I'd take the assault suit any day. If I'm defending one, I'll take the logi. All good until you realize that my logi suit has a stamina module and is still much more effective than my assault Yeah I use a stamina module on my minlogi suit too, but you know what? Even with nothing but extenders in my highs the assault suit now has more tank than me, and still has a slight mobility advantage because his base speed is higher. You can use the logi frame to do many different things, but it can't do them all at once. This whole thing is a ******** argument coming from expectations that class x does y and only y. Then they see "class" x do z instead of y and omg they're better at everything. As long as we have custom fittings this absurd drama is going to continue. At least until people actually try playing all of the suits and start to learn about what they are and are not best at. Logis are not the best at attacking a position. The argument has been that they have the hp of a heavy (almost) so they can outlast an assault suit in a slugging match, and that the speed doesn't matter. You can compensate for speed with a module, but it comes at the expense of hp. There is no way that your stamina boosted logi can win this idealized slugging match with an assault suit which all these threads are based around. Uhh... My logi with the stamina has more tank... Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4057	Posted - 2013.11.26 19:52:00 - [25] - Quote Dachande Anasazi wrote: Cat Merc wrote: calisk galern wrote: what do you really think will change when you nerf logi's? assuming the change is indeed effective enough to push logi's out of the slayer role, then people will just transition into assaults and nothing will change. the nerf train never ends just keeps on chugging to the next fotm. regardless I was looking forward to speccing into my next suit. and nothing will change. Yes it will. The whole point of this nerf is to stop logis from filling the roles of everyone, in addition to having a fuckton of equipment. Right now, an assault logi can be better than any assault, and still have 4 equipment making them even more versatile. Assaults - are supposed to be the frontline units, that can react to a quickly changing battlefield. Logistics - are supposed to keep everyone topped up, and provide covering fire when needed (but not be the ultimate killing machine). They can also use their slots to set up defences, like triage hives in places where they will hold their ground, remote explosives to take care of coming infantry and vehicles, etc'. Scouts - are supposed to get behind enemy lines, tell the team mates where everyone is, and take out lone targets/high priority targets. Heavies - are supposed to be able to push forward slowly while suppressing the enemy and being hard to take down without staying out of cover for a long time, allowing to breach heavily fortified areas, and also defending places. Logi can only be used as you say as the 'ultimate killing machines' because the OTHER suits need a buff. It's all relative. Logi can be nerfed, and the others will have a use. Others can buffed, and the logi will be put in line. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.