DUST Search - SHIELD AND ARMOR BALANCE

ACE OF JOKERS wrote:

Why is Armor tanking now so popular.WHAT CHANGED?
is it the HP buff they gave them? NO. Is the ridiculously low Speed penalties.
so now we have logis being as resiliant as a heavy but running at 6.1.
AM i the only one that sees this?
PHYSICAL ARMOR has weight, this weight should be felt.
Also shields need a buff and Reactive plates a rebalance:
|

ARMOR PLATES REBALANCE:
MLT-STD : 2% Speed Penalty
ADV: 4% Speed Penalty
COMX: 6% Speed penalty

Now please notice the nerf proposed is not that ABISMAL but fair. Its ridiculous that a Suit can run with 280+ ARMOR HP with a 3% speed penalty (basic A. Plates).ITS MEANINGLESS.Its so small,even SCOUTS are armor tanking now.
I remember before i used to use a COMPLEX KIN KAT on my proto Amarr Assault to compensate the speed los of the armor plate. Nowadays there is no need for this,even with 3 Cx armor plates, the HP gain is so massive that 15% (compared to what used to be 30%) speed penalty is nothing.

REACTIVE PLATES REBALANCE:
GÖªBasic 1 Hp/sec
GÖªEnh 1.5Hp/Sec
GÖªComx 2.5 Hp/Sec

SHIELD EXTENDER BUFF:
MLT: 22 HP
STD: 33 HP
ENH: 66 HP
Compx: 99 HP

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ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 212	Posted - 2013.11.24 22:21:00 - [1] - Quote Why is Armor tanking now so popular.WHAT CHANGED? is it the HP buff they gave them? NO. Is the ridiculously low Speed penalties. so now we have logis being as resiliant as a heavy but running at 6.1. AM i the only one that sees this? PHYSICAL ARMOR has weight, this weight should be felt. Also shields need a buff and Reactive plates a rebalance: \| ARMOR PLATES REBALANCE: MLT-STD : 2% Speed Penalty ADV: 4% Speed Penalty COMX: 6% Speed penalty Now please notice the nerf proposed is not that ABISMAL but fair. Its ridiculous that a Suit can run with 280+ ARMOR HP with a 3% speed penalty (basic A. Plates).ITS MEANINGLESS.Its so small,even SCOUTS are armor tanking now. I remember before i used to use a COMPLEX KIN KAT on my proto Amarr Assault to compensate the speed los of the armor plate. Nowadays there is no need for this,even with 3 Cx armor plates, the HP gain is so massive that 15% (compared to what used to be 30%) speed penalty is nothing. REACTIVE PLATES REBALANCE: GÖªBasic 1 Hp/sec GÖªEnh 1.5Hp/Sec GÖªComx 2.5 Hp/Sec SHIELD EXTENDER BUFF: MLT: 22 HP STD: 33 HP ENH: 66 HP Compx: 99 HP
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 3984	Posted - 2013.11.24 22:31:00 - [2] - Quote No No **** NO 99 HP shield extenders? You know what that means? Caldari with 750 SHIELDS, that's not even including armor. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 3984	Posted - 2013.11.24 22:32:00 - [3] - Quote The difference between armor and shields at the STD level is pretty noticable. Armor has much more HP, but much slower regeneration, while shields are the opposite. At the proto level they become equal, blurring the difference between them. I think it should be low regen high HP at the proto level too like with shields. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4251	Posted - 2013.11.24 22:32:00 - [4] - Quote Yeah not very good idea this time Checkmate.....sorry "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1070	Posted - 2013.11.24 22:34:00 - [5] - Quote ACE OF JOKERS wrote: Why is Armor tanking now so popular.WHAT CHANGED? is it the HP buff they gave them? NO. Is the ridiculously low Speed penalties. so now we have logis being as resiliant as a heavy but running at 6.1. AM i the only one that sees this? PHYSICAL ARMOR has weight, this weight should be felt. Also shields need a buff and Reactive plates a rebalance: \| ARMOR PLATES REBALANCE: MLT-STD : 2% Speed Penalty ADV: 4% Speed Penalty COMX: 6% Speed penalty Now please notice the nerf proposed is not that ABISMAL but fair. Its ridiculous that a Suit can run with 280+ ARMOR HP with a 3% speed penalty (basic A. Plates).ITS MEANINGLESS.Its so small,even SCOUTS are armor tanking now. I remember before i used to use a COMPLEX KIN KAT on my proto Amarr Assault to compensate the speed los of the armor plate. Nowadays there is no need for this,even with 3 Cx armor plates, the HP gain is so massive that 15% (compared to what used to be 30%) speed penalty is nothing. REACTIVE PLATES REBALANCE: GÖªBasic 1 Hp/sec GÖªEnh 1.5Hp/Sec GÖªComx 2.5 Hp/Sec SHIELD EXTENDER BUFF: MLT: 22 HP STD: 33 HP ENH: 66 HP Compx: 99 HP I'm a little surprised by your choice in changes to the HP values of shield extenders. Don't you feel that a module which boosts HP by almost 100, with zero downside, is a little much? Especially considering that it regenerates itself. Back when we dealt with all the Caldari Logi's, their natural skill boosted a complex extender to 82.5 HP (Not taking the actual shield skill into account), this would bring back that problem but even worse. Also I hated when militia plates offered less HP than standard plates; you're already getting hit on increased CPU/PG cost, so I feel Standard HP should be the same as Militia HP. As for the speed penalties....well its a reasonable change I'll admit. I would have preferred higher penalties with a skill which reduced said penalty by a percentage per level....but whatever, the end result is the same. ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR F.T.U. 682	Posted - 2013.11.24 22:39:00 - [6] - Quote tbh it doesn't have much to do with the speed penalties. its more that you can fit twice the health with one module at less than half the fitting cost. who doesn't perk their head up at this? Tell me, how exactly DOES a biscuit gain Valor?
Doc Noah Algintal Core Gallente Federation 884	Posted - 2013.11.24 22:40:00 - [7] - Quote You can have rhe 99 hp extenders if we get +10 armor rep built in to armor suits and half the speed penalty. TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR wrote: tbh it doesn't have much to do with the speed penalties. its more that you can fit twice the health with one module at less than half the fitting cost. who doesn't perk their head up at this? My neck snapped leaning so far back when I realised shields have the equivalent of 4 armor reps by default in their suit.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 5363	Posted - 2013.11.24 22:41:00 - [8] - Quote 99 HP shield extenders are disgustingly good, no thanks. You could quite feasibly make a Caldari assault build with 700+ shields regenerating at over 30 HP/s with a shield delay of 2 seconds, whilst having no penalties whatsoever. Level 5 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Supporter of CCP raRaRa.
Cody Sietz Unkn0wn Killers Renegade Alliance 1554	Posted - 2013.11.24 22:42:00 - [9] - Quote Armour penalty will be changed in the future once CCP figures out how to code it so only Gallente don't suffer movement penalty. Edit:Also, keeping the Basic plate movement penalty low while increasing the enhanced/complex penalty only hurts armour tankers.
CharCharOdell 1666	Posted - 2013.11.24 22:44:00 - [10] - Quote armor is popular because armor tanking allows for damage mods. the name of the game is DPS right now because we dont have many good medium-long range weapons. expect to see a resurgence of shield tanking in 1.7 Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition

Blind Nojoy G I A N T EoN. 56	Posted - 2013.11.24 22:45:00 - [11] - Quote I still see mostly caldari assault and logistics out there. Because shield recharges so fast and doesn't slow you down . I've played gallente assault and logi since uprising began. My logi is slow as sh*t. And complex armor sucks up a lot of PG. and since I armor tank my shield recharge is crap. And although you can have someone rep you, it's doesn't happen a lot since most other logis rep heavies. So, this means that in a 1v1 against a shield tanker, where we both use cover during the fight, I will eventually get whittled down to the point that my armor can't rep as fast as his shield, and he can use his superior speed to flank me. They both have pros and cons. They require different play styles. In my opinion shield is still slightly superior to armor. Probably because I'm an armor tanker and somewhat biased. Like you are a shield tanker, and somewhat biased. I think there are bigger fish to fry right now.
SgtDoughnut Red Star Jr. EoN. 411	Posted - 2013.11.24 22:50:00 - [12] - Quote I just want to get the skill armor honey combing from eve.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 595	Posted - 2013.11.24 22:54:00 - [13] - Quote Ehh. I thought it was silly for everyone to focus on armor but adding a change to get shields to be OP? lolno. That's not helping anything. Armor tankers are really slow when they're Proto-Tanking(600+ Armor) and with this TTK you can easily turn the tides on someone like me(I rock a mean 700+ eHP). It's been a many embarrassing moments where I've lost to MLT and STD guys because they've taken advantage of my sluggishness. I think they should lower the damage of all weapons but then I do agree that maybe the game will change with the new weapons...who knows. If 1.7 doesn't help enough then I'm sure CCP will at least start planning the market-wide nerf. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Mortedeamor WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL 842	Posted - 2013.11.24 23:19:00 - [14] - Quote noooooooooop
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 2108	Posted - 2013.11.24 23:26:00 - [15] - Quote Implement dual-stream repair tools at an advanced level so I don't feel like I'm risking too much running Six Kins in pubs, so I can repair more armour tankers. Greatest advantage for armour, ever? Logibros. "When nothing is going your way, go out of your way to do nothing."
Sleepy Zan 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 2857	Posted - 2013.11.24 23:39:00 - [16] - Quote ACE OF JOKERS wrote: Now please notice the nerf proposed is not that ABISMAL but fair. Welp its fair, nothing to see here. Might as well add it. This guy said it was fair. Quick, no, hard... I got all your scopes here ... and for a limited time only you can receive the 360 edition!
Jacques Cayton II Providence Guard Templis Dragonaors 118	Posted - 2013.11.24 23:50:00 - [17] - Quote I can't wait for my Caldari heavy with 900 shields and 300 armor ^o^ We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals
stlcarlos989 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 497	Posted - 2013.11.24 23:53:00 - [18] - Quote Shields are a complete joke. I used to run my Caldari Logi with ALL shield extenders and regulators (including post nerf calogi) but now I run all armor. Buff to armor which I believe was a fair buff should have made shields and armor fairly balanced, but what killed shields was the increased aim assist making strafing pointless because the enemy will land a higher percentage of shots then they would have with out the aim assist. Oh well gotta save up for gallente logi.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1342	Posted - 2013.11.24 23:55:00 - [19] - Quote lol. Whats OP is dual tanking.
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2999	Posted - 2013.11.24 23:57:00 - [20] - Quote This person is a scrub that doesn't realize the diiference between shield and armor. Armor is supposed to have a lot more HP than shields due to it's nature and characteristics. The problem with this game is that there needs to be penalties for using a defense outside of a suits specialization (maybe even racial). Minmatar would get a slice of both worlds being the cunning bastards they while Caldari are penalized on armor and Gallente penalized on shields. Amarr is a special case as what makes an amarrian, an amarrian, isn't even in the game.

ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 215	Posted - 2013.11.25 00:04:00 - [21] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: The difference between armor and shields at the STD level is pretty noticable. Armor has much more HP, but much slower regeneration, while shields are the opposite. At the proto level they become equal, blurring the difference between them. I think it should be low regen high HP at the proto level too like with shields. Complex armor plates : +148 Armor 5% Speed Penalty Enh armor plates: +121 Armor 3% Speed penalty Complex Shield Ext: 72 Shields, no speed penalty Enh Shield Ext: +36 Shields , no speed penalty As it is , the difference between Armor and shields is way too massive, the speed penalty is meaningless since AA makes being fast useless. So the one with more HP usually wins, plain and simple. The Cx Armor wins vs the Shields by 76 (So the Cx Gives HP as 2+ Cx Shield extenders combined with a minimal and meaningless speed penalty) and the enhanced wins by 85 (so 1 Enh armor plate equals 3.3 Enh Shield ext,with a nonexistent 3% Speed penalty) I dont see why you would say that even at ''proto level'' they become equal. They just dont. there is a reason shield tanking has been replaced with Armor tanking,not to mention Dam Mod Stacking needs High Slots,making the decision for competitive players pretty obvious. Dam mods + Armor tank. (More HP, and More Damage)
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 215	Posted - 2013.11.25 00:08:00 - [22] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: This person is a scrub that doesn't realize the difference between shield and armor. Armor is supposed to have a lot more HP than shields due to it's nature and characteristics. . So is speed loss. A 700 Armor Gal Logi HOULD NOT Be 1.5 Faster in speed than a 600 Armor Heavy.Plain and simple.Want more armor than a heavy? then Run slower. (not AS slow as a heavy , but srsly...) I understand however you would be AGAINST this, you being a proto Gal Logi and all...
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 3000	Posted - 2013.11.25 00:12:00 - [23] - Quote ACE OF JOKERS wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: This person is a scrub that doesn't realize the difference between shield and armor. Armor is supposed to have a lot more HP than shields due to it's nature and characteristics. . So is speed loss. A 700 Armor Gal Logi HOULD NOT Be 1.5 Faster in speed than a 600 Armor Heavy.Plain and simple.Want more armor than a heavy? then Run slower. (not AS slow as a heavy , but srsly...) I understand however you would be AGAINST this, you being a proto Gal Logi and all... Makes scrubbing noise
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10680	Posted - 2013.11.25 00:14:00 - [24] - Quote I think its because of the scrambler rifles becoming a thing again. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
Auld Syne Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 142	Posted - 2013.11.25 00:14:00 - [25] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: ACE OF JOKERS wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: This person is a scrub that doesn't realize the difference between shield and armor. Armor is supposed to have a lot more HP than shields due to it's nature and characteristics. . So is speed loss. A 700 Armor Gal Logi HOULD NOT Be 1.5 Faster in speed than a 600 Armor Heavy.Plain and simple.Want more armor than a heavy? then Run slower. (not AS slow as a heavy , but srsly...) I understand however you would be AGAINST this, you being a proto Gal Logi and all... Makes scrubbing noise I heard his order, Mr Krabs. He says he wants [squeak squeak]
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 3000	Posted - 2013.11.25 00:16:00 - [26] - Quote Auld Syne wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Makes scrubbing noise I heard his order, Mr Krabs. He says he wants [squeak squeak] LOOL. funny thing is that I'm not even a G. Logi, he's just a "butthurt" child.
Medic 1879 Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 1268	Posted - 2013.11.25 00:16:00 - [27] - Quote Jacques Cayton II wrote: I can't wait for my Caldari heavy with 900 shields and 300 armor ^o^ I cant wait for that either 1 flux grenade and 1-2 MD rounds and bingo easiest heavy kill ever lol. On a serious not armour tanking is popular due to being able to use damage mods as well and because the 2 most popular guns in the game (AR and ScR) both do extra damage to shields when the RR and CR are introduced expect more shield tanking happening. (hopefully) TEST signature please help me think of a better one.
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 215	Posted - 2013.11.25 00:17:00 - [28] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I think its because of the scrambler rifles becoming a thing again. And while speed may not do much for combat it greatly helps for prepositioning and countering to get the opening fire to end a squad quickly. No , i seriously think Armor tanking has gone mainstream because its ''penalty'' is insignificant. So of course i prefer having 200+ HP for 3-10% Speed penalty. LOL I mean its pretty obvious, when the only way a Cal logi/Cal assault can survive is when they are dual tanking.....
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 215	Posted - 2013.11.25 00:18:00 - [29] - Quote Medic 1879 wrote: Jacques Cayton II wrote: I can't wait for my Caldari heavy with 900 shields and 300 armor ^o^ I cant wait for that either 1 flux grenade and 1-2 MD rounds and bingo easiest heavy kill ever lol. On a serious not armour tanking is popular due to being able to use damage mods as well and because the 2 most popular guns in the game (AR and ScR) both do extra damage to shields when the RR and CR are introduced expect more shield tanking happening. (hopefully) Doubt it. The HP difference is way to big. What good is shield regen if you are DEAD.
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 3000	Posted - 2013.11.25 00:23:00 - [30] - Quote Also The Amarr suits are always the slowest suits out there on top of that heavy suits are the slowest suits in the game, I'm pretty sure a Gallente Heavy with 600 armor (basically what a Gallente Heavy would be right at the start) will be on par with a Gallente Logistics at 700 hp



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