DUST Search - SHIELD AND ARMOR BALANCE

Cat Merc wrote:

ACE OF JOKERS wrote:

Why is Armor tanking now so popular.WHAT CHANGED?
is it the HP buff they gave them? NO. Is the ridiculously low Speed penalties.
so now we have logis being as resiliant as a heavy but running at 6.1.
AM i the only one that sees this?
PHYSICAL ARMOR has weight, this weight should be felt.
Also shields need a buff and Reactive plates a rebalance:
|

ARMOR PLATES REBALANCE:
MLT-STD : 2% Speed Penalty
ADV: 4% Speed Penalty
COMX: 6% Speed penalty

Now please notice the nerf proposed is not that ABISMAL but fair. Its ridiculous that a Suit can run with 280+ ARMOR HP with a 3% speed penalty (basic A. Plates).ITS MEANINGLESS.Its so small,even SCOUTS are armor tanking now.
I remember before i used to use a COMPLEX KIN KAT on my proto Amarr Assault to compensate the speed los of the armor plate. Nowadays there is no need for this,even with 3 Cx armor plates, the HP gain is so massive that 15% (compared to what used to be 30%) speed penalty is nothing.

REACTIVE PLATES REBALANCE:
GÖªBasic 1 Hp/sec
GÖªEnh 1.5Hp/Sec
GÖªComx 2.5 Hp/Sec

SHIELD EXTENDER BUFF:
MLT: 22 HP
STD: 33 HP
ENH: 66 HP
Compx: 99 HP

Example:

Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:

Gallente Logistics GK.0 - 5 basic plates.

Thats 467 HP for the penalty of 5%. (From 6.6 down to 6.3)
Seems legit.

5% speed penalty would buy you around 100HP before the armor buffs.

That's 10% not 5%.
Each basic is 2%.

You should note that he is a logi.
An assault with 4 basic plates is a terrible fit.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 212	Posted - 2013.11.24 22:21:00 - [1] - Quote Why is Armor tanking now so popular.WHAT CHANGED? is it the HP buff they gave them? NO. Is the ridiculously low Speed penalties. so now we have logis being as resiliant as a heavy but running at 6.1. AM i the only one that sees this? PHYSICAL ARMOR has weight, this weight should be felt. Also shields need a buff and Reactive plates a rebalance: \| ARMOR PLATES REBALANCE: MLT-STD : 2% Speed Penalty ADV: 4% Speed Penalty COMX: 6% Speed penalty Now please notice the nerf proposed is not that ABISMAL but fair. Its ridiculous that a Suit can run with 280+ ARMOR HP with a 3% speed penalty (basic A. Plates).ITS MEANINGLESS.Its so small,even SCOUTS are armor tanking now. I remember before i used to use a COMPLEX KIN KAT on my proto Amarr Assault to compensate the speed los of the armor plate. Nowadays there is no need for this,even with 3 Cx armor plates, the HP gain is so massive that 15% (compared to what used to be 30%) speed penalty is nothing. REACTIVE PLATES REBALANCE: GÖªBasic 1 Hp/sec GÖªEnh 1.5Hp/Sec GÖªComx 2.5 Hp/Sec SHIELD EXTENDER BUFF: MLT: 22 HP STD: 33 HP ENH: 66 HP Compx: 99 HP
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 215	Posted - 2013.11.25 00:04:00 - [2] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: The difference between armor and shields at the STD level is pretty noticable. Armor has much more HP, but much slower regeneration, while shields are the opposite. At the proto level they become equal, blurring the difference between them. I think it should be low regen high HP at the proto level too like with shields. Complex armor plates : +148 Armor 5% Speed Penalty Enh armor plates: +121 Armor 3% Speed penalty Complex Shield Ext: 72 Shields, no speed penalty Enh Shield Ext: +36 Shields , no speed penalty As it is , the difference between Armor and shields is way too massive, the speed penalty is meaningless since AA makes being fast useless. So the one with more HP usually wins, plain and simple. The Cx Armor wins vs the Shields by 76 (So the Cx Gives HP as 2+ Cx Shield extenders combined with a minimal and meaningless speed penalty) and the enhanced wins by 85 (so 1 Enh armor plate equals 3.3 Enh Shield ext,with a nonexistent 3% Speed penalty) I dont see why you would say that even at ''proto level'' they become equal. They just dont. there is a reason shield tanking has been replaced with Armor tanking,not to mention Dam Mod Stacking needs High Slots,making the decision for competitive players pretty obvious. Dam mods + Armor tank. (More HP, and More Damage)
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 215	Posted - 2013.11.25 00:08:00 - [3] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: This person is a scrub that doesn't realize the difference between shield and armor. Armor is supposed to have a lot more HP than shields due to it's nature and characteristics. . So is speed loss. A 700 Armor Gal Logi HOULD NOT Be 1.5 Faster in speed than a 600 Armor Heavy.Plain and simple.Want more armor than a heavy? then Run slower. (not AS slow as a heavy , but srsly...) I understand however you would be AGAINST this, you being a proto Gal Logi and all...
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 215	Posted - 2013.11.25 00:17:00 - [4] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I think its because of the scrambler rifles becoming a thing again. And while speed may not do much for combat it greatly helps for prepositioning and countering to get the opening fire to end a squad quickly. No , i seriously think Armor tanking has gone mainstream because its ''penalty'' is insignificant. So of course i prefer having 200+ HP for 3-10% Speed penalty. LOL I mean its pretty obvious, when the only way a Cal logi/Cal assault can survive is when they are dual tanking.....
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 215	Posted - 2013.11.25 00:18:00 - [5] - Quote Medic 1879 wrote: Jacques Cayton II wrote: I can't wait for my Caldari heavy with 900 shields and 300 armor ^o^ I cant wait for that either 1 flux grenade and 1-2 MD rounds and bingo easiest heavy kill ever lol. On a serious not armour tanking is popular due to being able to use damage mods as well and because the 2 most popular guns in the game (AR and ScR) both do extra damage to shields when the RR and CR are introduced expect more shield tanking happening. (hopefully) Doubt it. The HP difference is way to big. What good is shield regen if you are DEAD.
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 217	Posted - 2013.11.25 00:24:00 - [6] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Also The Amarr suits are always the slowest suits out there on top of that heavy suits are the slowest suits in the game, I'm pretty sure a Gallente Heavy with 600 armor (basically what a Gallente Heavy would be right at the start) will be on par with a Gallente Logistics at 700 hp Si its ok to have more armor than a heavy and be faster. ARMOR being directly related to SPEED? Thats is your opinion?
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 217	Posted - 2013.11.25 00:26:00 - [7] - Quote Auld Syne wrote: ACE OF JOKERS wrote: What good is shield regen if you are DEAD. What good is shield regen if you suck? Well i dont know you, but i do pretty fine thank you. But if you suck i might be able to give you some pointers. No isk needed . :3
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 217	Posted - 2013.11.25 00:34:00 - [8] - Quote Doc Noah wrote: ACE OF JOKERS wrote: Auld Syne wrote: ACE OF JOKERS wrote: What good is shield regen if you are DEAD. What good is shield regen if you suck? Well i dont know you, but i do pretty fine thank you. But if you suck i might be able to give you some pointers. No isk needed . :3 Whoa whoa, slow down. Buy him dinner first. He'll have his latino breakfast at least :3 Pair of eggs , and bacon flavord SAUSAGE , filled with sour cream... :3 XD
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 221	Posted - 2013.11.25 01:32:00 - [9] - Quote Mdog 24158 wrote: Its because the assult rifle and scrambler rifle are more harmful to shields then armor when combat and rail rifle come out it will be balance because they do extra damage against armor HEH.no. MORE HP is still MORE HP. By your logic everyone would be using MAss drivers. RR and CR will be new thing? Probably! Will they make SHield tanking viable? LOL NO.
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 235	Posted - 2013.11.25 22:14:00 - [10] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: ACE OF JOKERS wrote: Why is Armor tanking now so popular.WHAT CHANGED? is it the HP buff they gave them? NO. Is the ridiculously low Speed penalties. so now we have logis being as resiliant as a heavy but running at 6.1. AM i the only one that sees this? PHYSICAL ARMOR has weight, this weight should be felt. Also shields need a buff and Reactive plates a rebalance: \| ARMOR PLATES REBALANCE: MLT-STD : 2% Speed Penalty ADV: 4% Speed Penalty COMX: 6% Speed penalty Now please notice the nerf proposed is not that ABISMAL but fair. Its ridiculous that a Suit can run with 280+ ARMOR HP with a 3% speed penalty (basic A. Plates).ITS MEANINGLESS.Its so small,even SCOUTS are armor tanking now. I remember before i used to use a COMPLEX KIN KAT on my proto Amarr Assault to compensate the speed los of the armor plate. Nowadays there is no need for this,even with 3 Cx armor plates, the HP gain is so massive that 15% (compared to what used to be 30%) speed penalty is nothing. REACTIVE PLATES REBALANCE: GÖªBasic 1 Hp/sec GÖªEnh 1.5Hp/Sec GÖªComx 2.5 Hp/Sec SHIELD EXTENDER BUFF: MLT: 22 HP STD: 33 HP ENH: 66 HP Compx: 99 HP Example: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Gallente Logistics GK.0 - 5 basic plates. Thats 467 HP for the penalty of 5%. (From 6.6 down to 6.3) Seems legit. 5% speed penalty would buy you around 100HP before the armor buffs. That's 10% not 5%. Each basic is 2%. You should note that he is a logi. An assault with 4 basic plates is a terrible fit. MOST Gallentes (at least the smart ones) are logis. I fail to see your point. Gal Assaults are garbage compared to the logi. OF COURSE hes a logi Yup i'll fix. Still, its a ridiculously small price to pay.