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Do BPO defenders even care about the long-term health of this game?

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Mia Romani Nexus Marines 51	Posted - 2013.11.24 00:09:00 - [1] - Quote So the discussion has been raging for weeks now, and so far the scope of the discussion has almost entirely been "I'm being ripped off!"... And yeah, maybe you are, maybe you aren't... But this thread is about something else. Let me begin with the seemingly innocent root cause: Players who die while using BPO gear still generate full end-of-match ISK payouts each time they die. No big deal, right? Well let's look at some of the other pieces in play here, and let's see if you too will share in my fridge horror moment: Players in full proto gear have better stats than players in full BPO gear. Players in full BPO gear are not punished for dying, and so are more likely to take risks. So let's review here: Proto-stompers find it relatively easy to kill BPO-users, and BPO-users don't mind dying. Each time a proto-stomper dies, the ISK that was spent on that suit is added to the end of match payout pool, redistributing the ISK that was spent. Each time a proto-stomper kills a BPO user, some free ISK is generated out of thin air, and injected into that same end of match payout pool. And thus we discover the real evil of "proto-stomping": These players who are going 20-0 against players in Militia BPO gear are receiving enormous amounts of free ISK that came from nowhere, while those players who are getting stomped are getting paid relatively little for their troubles. When the secondary market is introduced, these extremely rich proto-stompers are going to flood the market with their ready supply of ISK, causing prices to increase relative to their ability to spend. And what of the poor BPO-users? Well they're not making a whole lot of ISK to begin with, so all they'll see is a market full of things that are ridiculously over-priced and out of their reach... While BPO users may indeed have a valid point about not getting what they paid for, they don't seem to realise that what they paid for is a permanent and ongoing disadvantage against the "1%" of Dust players, and that continued BPO use is only going to continue widening the gap between the "haves" and the "have-nots". Don't believe me? Go watch CEO Pyrex's latest video (here), and listen to how he talks about the value of ISK and proto gear. No, he's not the cause of the problem. It's not his fault that BPO users are continually throwing free ISK at him... But it does illustrate the point. This is already happening, and it's only going to get worse when the secondary market comes in. Interstellar Crossroads
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1135	Posted - 2013.11.24 00:17:00 - [2] - Quote An idea occurs!! I want my BPOs, I want my BPOs to have a Bill of Materials that I can use to manfacture shedloads of the BPO items as tangible, quantifiable items rater than "poof! yay free stuffz!!!" Give BPOs a Bill of Materials and let us gouge the market. Problem solved (I know, it is fairly obvious when you think about it) Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2271	Posted - 2013.11.24 00:18:00 - [3] - Quote Even if BPOs actually damaged the balance of the game, it still would not be acceptable to forcibly remove irreplaceable, purchased items from players. The future of the game also depends upon people actually being willing to spend money on it too. After finding out that there is no guarantee on anything I purchase with aurum, the currency has lost much of its value to me. No.
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 363	Posted - 2013.11.24 00:30:00 - [4] - Quote TL;DR "Do BPO defenders even care about the long-term health of this game?" I imagine that they care that they were lied to and subsequently swindled out of their money. {:)}{3GÇó>
xLuca Brasi DUST University Ivy League 71	Posted - 2013.11.24 00:34:00 - [5] - Quote Do BPO defenders even care about the long-term health of this game? answer: yes I don't believe bpo's effect the game. theres no proof they do. PC effects the isk in this game more than bpo's do PC is broken and people have made billions using broken mechanics.... why aren't they removing PC, which is a bigger game breaker than bpo's? SAY NO TO BPO REMOVALS!
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn 560	Posted - 2013.11.24 00:46:00 - [6] - Quote guy uses full bpo suit... isk equivalent is about 10-15k guy in full aurum proto gear.. isk equivalent about 100k+ guy in bpo set dies 10 times losing the eve economy 150k isk at best guy in full aurum proto gear dies 10 times losing the eve economy 1million isk+ now you tell me which one of these is more devastating to the economy Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1135	Posted - 2013.11.24 00:48:00 - [7] - Quote xLuca Brasi wrote: Do BPO defenders even care about the long-term health of this game? answer: yes I don't believe bpo's effect the game. theres no proof they do. PC effects the isk in this game more than bpo's do PC is broken and people have made billions using broken mechanics.... why aren't they removing PC, which is a bigger game breaker than bpo's? LOL, yeah, no one paid rl cash for PC, it was broken from the start for free..... Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Necandi Brasil DUST BRASIL S.A Covert Intervention 472	Posted - 2013.11.24 00:52:00 - [8] - Quote Make blueprints for industry... so I can manufacture stuff with it ... don't take it away ... A DUST BRASIL S.A precisa de você ! Junte-se a nós ! Hey CCP, give me PvE!
Necandi Brasil DUST BRASIL S.A Covert Intervention 472	Posted - 2013.11.24 00:54:00 - [9] - Quote xLuca Brasi wrote: Do BPO defenders even care about the long-term health of this game? answer: yes I don't believe bpo's effect the game. theres no proof they do. PC effects the isk in this game more than bpo's do PC is broken and people have made billions using broken mechanics.... why aren't they removing PC, which is a bigger game breaker than bpo's? agree 1000% with this statement A DUST BRASIL S.A precisa de você ! Junte-se a nós ! Hey CCP, give me PvE!
Montezumas Revenge the majestic space duck 21	Posted - 2013.11.24 00:56:00 - [10] - Quote I bought AUR to buy blueprints. If the blueprints are taken away or never existed, I probably never would have bought AUR. Sooooo, CCP basically sold me a product that they later changed their mind about. If they're going to remove BPOs, I want a cash refund - I can't think of a need for the AUR or whatever CCP decides to replace the BPOs with.

Orca Amsel Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 634	Posted - 2013.11.24 01:04:00 - [11] - Quote Montezumas Revenge wrote: I bought AUR to buy blueprints. If the blueprints are taken away or never existed, I probably never would have bought AUR. Sooooo, CCP basically sold me a product that they later changed their mind about. If they're going to remove BPOs, I want a cash refund - I can't think of a need for the AUR or whatever CCP decides to replace the BPOs with. Exactly, the bpos are the reason I bought the merc, elite, veteran packs and the eve CE.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn 560	Posted - 2013.11.24 01:05:00 - [12] - Quote i made a suggestion a while back as a compromise about making bpo's not so much a free source of items but a cheap source. considering these are cheap items anyway a small insignificant investment by the person who owns a bpo would be almost insignificant. my suggestion was make bpo's an option on the market. a black market if you will where you buy copies for a significantly lower investment. something like 10-20 of original costs. bpo owners are happy because they keep their bpo's and everyone else is happy because items and isk is being lost. not to mention bpo copied items would end up in loot Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 1358	Posted - 2013.11.24 01:06:00 - [13] - Quote Most BPOs are MLT/STD equipment My most gnarly full BPO suit would only cost about 11,000 ISK 11,000 ISK is easy to justify just running at a squad of reds with a MLT Pistol over, and over, and over again - if that's my schtick for the day. BPOs will affect the Market much less than Officer Weapon Salvage frequency. Cheeseburgers.
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 207	Posted - 2013.11.24 01:10:00 - [14] - Quote ' Do BPO defenders even care about the long-term health of this game?'' I do. Im a BPO defender. I have mine for collection. BPO's are NOT competitive at ALL. As it is, playing ADV is the best way for your money, being a lot cheaper than Proto , but being a lot better than STD. I wont use my SCR BPO if i have money over a ADV SCR or an imperial,considering the Damage difference....ETC...
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 367	Posted - 2013.11.24 01:40:00 - [15] - Quote Look here is a proper analogy for the current BPO debacle: Guy goes into a store and purchases an item, leaves the store and returns home. He sets the item on his bed stand and turns in for the night. Upon waking the next morning, he find the item is gone and in its there sits a letter an a coupon that says "store credit" on it. The letter reads as follows: I am sorry but we at Swindle Mart have decided to remove the item you purchased last night our inventory and have furth decided that it would not be in our best interest that you continue ownership of the item you purchased. In place of the that we reclaimed while you slept last night, we have issued you a certificate for store credit, equal to the value of the item we reclaimed. Thankyou. Upon reading this note, our protagonist becomes infuriated upon realizing that there is ABSOLUTLY nothing else at that swindle mart that he/she is interested in purchasing, and that the store credit is absolutly worthless to him/her. So he gets dressed and goes down to swindle mart to talk to the manager and request a full refund. At this time our protagonist is informed that "swindle mart does not offer refunds only store credit." Upon learning this, our protagonist starts a one man picket line outside of swindle Mart and is quickly joined by who had just so happened to sleep a little longer that day. {:)}{3GÇó>
Viktor Hadah Jr Critical-Impact 1197	Posted - 2013.11.24 01:47:00 - [16] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: xLuca Brasi wrote: Do BPO defenders even care about the long-term health of this game? answer: yes I don't believe bpo's effect the game. theres no proof they do. PC effects the isk in this game more than bpo's do PC is broken and people have made billions using broken mechanics.... why aren't they removing PC, which is a bigger game breaker than bpo's? LOL, yeah, no one paid rl cash for PC, it was broken from the start for free..... They announced at EVE Vegas they are working on PC 2.0... So they are working on it, and what makes you think someone who pays money should have advantage over the people who are playing for free? For the Empire Dual tanking is a sin BPO's are bad for economy, Respec's are bad for the game. Want to fight about it?
Badonk Adonk Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 41	Posted - 2013.11.24 01:47:00 - [17] - Quote Ccp proved themselves unstrustworthy at the end of closed beta, why the hell would you give these people more money? Have ccpee done anything in the last 6 months to justify getting paid to develop this trash? Got milk?
Mia Romani Nexus Marines 53	Posted - 2013.11.24 02:01:00 - [18] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Upon learning this, our protagonist starts a one man picket line outside of swindle Mart and is quickly joined by others who had just so happened to sleep a little longer that day. Mia Romani wrote: While BPO users may indeed have a valid point about not getting what they paid for, they don't seem to realise that what they paid for is a permanent and ongoing disadvantage against the "1%" of Dust players, and that continued BPO use is only going to continue widening the gap between the "haves" and the "have-nots". The item you originally bought was in and of itself a crutch, one that is keeping you poor while making the proto-stompers richer. You're picketing for your right to continue being stomped by far richer players... Interstellar Crossroads
xLuca Brasi DUST University Ivy League 86	Posted - 2013.11.24 02:02:00 - [19] - Quote Badonk Adonk wrote: Ccp proved themselves unstrustworthy at the end of closed beta, why the hell would you give these people more money? Have ccpee done anything in the last 6 months to justify getting paid to develop this trash? Got milk? eventually ccp proves themselves untrustworthy to all of us.... for me it took them stealing from me before I lost my faith and loyalty.... I feel so betrayed, and used. SAY NO TO BPO REMOVALS!
Arron Rift Better Hide R Die 200	Posted - 2013.11.24 02:05:00 - [20] - Quote Personally, I think BPOs are the only things worth buying in this game. And if they take them all away I'm honestly not sure how CCP will make much money. And if CCP doesn't make much money, this game is shut down regardless of how fun it is... ...So I would say they are actually standing up for what's best for this game :D Personally, I can vouch for this. I just recently spent $50 on a veteran pack just for the LAV BPO, and I have literally not even spent the other things that came with the pack. My hope is I can get a refund if they take the BPOs out before I even use the pack's consumables. But that does show how much I and other people are willing to spend in real money to assure a low low in-game cost of free :D

Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1138	Posted - 2013.11.24 02:07:00 - [21] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: xLuca Brasi wrote: Do BPO defenders even care about the long-term health of this game? answer: yes I don't believe bpo's effect the game. theres no proof they do. PC effects the isk in this game more than bpo's do PC is broken and people have made billions using broken mechanics.... why aren't they removing PC, which is a bigger game breaker than bpo's? LOL, yeah, no one paid rl cash for PC, it was broken from the start for free..... They announced at EVE Vegas they are working on PC 2.0... So they are working on it, and what makes you think someone who pays money should have advantage over the people who are playing for free? Those of us who've paid money to help support development of Dust have (for all intents and purposes) invested our money to encourage CCP to continue development. We are, in effect, shareholders in Dust rather than freeloaders in the gaming equivalent of a welfare state that is Dust. Beyond that, if you had read my earlier post, I want BPOs to be a factor in player manufacturing rather than free stuff from thin air. Oh, wait, that would require Dev time for PvE materials gathering, player manufacturing and a player market. My vision of BPOs is much less of a guaranteed isk faucet than PC has been from day one. BTW, is PC going to be reset when it gets out of beta, like all of us Closed Beta vets had a forced reset when Dust came out of "beta" or will it be farming business as usual? Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 562	Posted - 2013.11.24 02:09:00 - [22] - Quote xLuca Brasi wrote: Do BPO defenders even care about the long-term health of this game? answer: yes I don't believe bpo's effect the game. theres no proof they do. PC effects the isk in this game more than bpo's do PC is broken and people have made billions using broken mechanics.... why aren't they removing PC, which is a bigger game breaker than bpo's? try trillions SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED
Mia Romani Nexus Marines 53	Posted - 2013.11.24 02:10:00 - [23] - Quote Arron Rift wrote: Personally, I think BPOs are the only things worth buying in this game. And if they take them all away I'm honestly not sure how CCP will make much money. And if CCP doesn't make much money, this game is shut down regardless of how fun it is... ...So I would say they are actually standing up for what's best for this game :D Once you've bought a BPO, are you likely to buy another one? MMO games that ask you to pay once only don't tend to survive very long. If a free to play game fails to generate at least $15 per player per month, then it should have used the subscription model instead... Interstellar Crossroads
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 368	Posted - 2013.11.24 02:12:00 - [24] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Upon learning this, our protagonist starts a one man picket line outside of swindle Mart and is quickly joined by others who had just so happened to sleep a little longer that day. Mia Romani wrote: While BPO users may indeed have a valid point about not getting what they paid for, they don't seem to realise that what they paid for is a permanent and ongoing disadvantage against the "1%" of Dust players, and that continued BPO use is only going to continue widening the gap between the "haves" and the "have-nots". The item you originally bought was in and of itself a crutch, one that is keeping you poor while making the proto-stompers richer. You're picketing for your right to continue being stomped by far richer players... Lolwut. No dude, I do just fine with my BPOs. If proto stomps are occurring it is very doubtful that it has anything to with my play style. {:)}{3GÇó>
Mia Romani Nexus Marines 53	Posted - 2013.11.24 02:14:00 - [25] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Mia Romani wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Upon learning this, our protagonist starts a one man picket line outside of swindle Mart and is quickly joined by others who had just so happened to sleep a little longer that day. Mia Romani wrote: While BPO users may indeed have a valid point about not getting what they paid for, they don't seem to realise that what they paid for is a permanent and ongoing disadvantage against the "1%" of Dust players, and that continued BPO use is only going to continue widening the gap between the "haves" and the "have-nots". The item you originally bought was in and of itself a crutch, one that is keeping you poor while making the proto-stompers richer. You're picketing for your right to continue being stomped by far richer players... Lolwut. No dude, I do just fine with my BPOs. If proto stomps are occurring it is very doubtful that it has anything to with my play style. If you aren't dying, then why do you want BPO gear? It is categorically worse than proto gear in every way except cost. Interstellar Crossroads
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1309	Posted - 2013.11.24 02:16:00 - [26] - Quote Please tell me how not restocking 5-10k ISK MLT/STD gear is gamebreaking when 90% of the playerbase has 20m-2B ISK in their wallet? By the very least, make them BPCs Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
Mia Romani Nexus Marines 53	Posted - 2013.11.24 02:18:00 - [27] - Quote Atiim wrote: Please tell me how not restocking 5-10k ISK MLT/STD gear is gamebreaking when 90% of the playerbase has 20m-2B ISK in their wallet? By the very least, make them BPCs How do you think those players got so rich in the first place? 150 clones per match, 10k ISK per clone, that's 1.5 million ISK injected into the economy by every match. ISK is coming into the economy, and it is not leaving. Of course wallets are going to get fat. Interstellar Crossroads
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 1866	Posted - 2013.11.24 02:19:00 - [28] - Quote I don't think BPO users are really concerned about the money that they are not getting as opposed to what the proto players are getting. That's like a employee upset over what his supervisor makes. People just wanted to keep their stuff and don't like the change. While I can say, "you should not be surprised", it does nothing to change their viewpoint. Even the presentation of the economy opinion will not sway their opinions. Most of the proto players PC and have generated MUCH ISK from it. They then go to pubs and just have a good time, "flexing the muscle" to those without the wallets or experience. So little boy grows to become a big man and returns to high school to pick on the freshmen. Majority of BPO users are trying to counter this by using the BPOs in way to make bank for possible PC experience and to also hone their abilities with the sticks and stones. So when they gain fire, they know how to be more of a lethal threat on the field.
ThePrinceOfNigeria Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 256	Posted - 2013.11.24 02:19:00 - [29] - Quote Removal of BPO's is not suddenly going to save this broken game. This game is ****** either way in the long run. You can't make it with just a couple thousand people on a now outdated console.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1139	Posted - 2013.11.24 02:21:00 - [30] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Mia Romani wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Upon learning this, our protagonist starts a one man picket line outside of swindle Mart and is quickly joined by others who had just so happened to sleep a little longer that day. Mia Romani wrote: While BPO users may indeed have a valid point about not getting what they paid for, they don't seem to realise that what they paid for is a permanent and ongoing disadvantage against the "1%" of Dust players, and that continued BPO use is only going to continue widening the gap between the "haves" and the "have-nots". The item you originally bought was in and of itself a crutch, one that is keeping you poor while making the proto-stompers richer. You're picketing for your right to continue being stomped by far richer players... Lolwut. No dude, I do just fine with my BPOs. If proto stomps are occurring it is very doubtful that it has anything to with my play style. If you aren't dying, then why do you want BPO gear? It is categorically worse than proto gear in every way except cost. PC farmers farm ISK by gaming broken mechanics, BPO owners are just farming ISK through a different means. BPO owners paid for the right to farm ISK, PC farmers are simply exploiting poorly thought through mechanics (at least, I hope they were poorly thought through instead of working as intended) Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta

Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 368	Posted - 2013.11.24 02:21:00 - [31] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Mia Romani wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Upon learning this, our protagonist starts a one man picket line outside of swindle Mart and is quickly joined by others who had just so happened to sleep a little longer that day. Mia Romani wrote: While BPO users may indeed have a valid point about not getting what they paid for, they don't seem to realise that what they paid for is a permanent and ongoing disadvantage against the "1%" of Dust players, and that continued BPO use is only going to continue widening the gap between the "haves" and the "have-nots". The item you originally bought was in and of itself a crutch, one that is keeping you poor while making the proto-stompers richer. You're picketing for your right to continue being stomped by far richer players... Lolwut. No dude, I do just fine with my BPOs. If proto stomps are occurring it is very doubtful that it has anything to with my play style. If you aren't dying, then why do you want BPO gear? It is categorically worse than proto gear in every way except cost. I didnt say I wasn't dying. But only being able to die once per match to go ISK positive in a match in a proto suit is a little much to ask. Which is exactly why I bought BPOs. Because I like ISK. {:)}{3GÇó>
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10577	Posted - 2013.11.24 02:21:00 - [32] - Quote we should start charging for clones. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1311	Posted - 2013.11.24 02:24:00 - [33] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Atiim wrote: Please tell me how not restocking 5-10k ISK MLT/STD gear is gamebreaking when 90% of the playerbase has 20m-2B ISK in their wallet? By the very least, make them BPCs How do you think those players got so rich in the first place? 150 clones per match, 10k ISK per clone, that's 1.5 million ISK injected into the economy by every match. ISK is coming into the economy, and it is not leaving. Of course wallets are going to get fat. How idiotic are you? These people didn't get rich because of BPOs. They got rich from constantly playing in PC battles that have 1-5m ISK payouts. These players got rich from their corps who biomass the clones on their districts for ISK. I'd love to see someone die 150 times in a match. My 2 year old son can't even die 150 times! The worst he ever did was 0-35. And he can't even hold the joystick properly! If you manage to die 150 times in a single match then you need to stop playing DUST. Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1139	Posted - 2013.11.24 02:27:00 - [34] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: we should start charging for clones. I'd be perfectly fine with that so long as the price of the clone was attached to the type of dropsuit equipped. Explain it as only sufficiently engineered clones are able to support the more technically advanced dropsuits. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 369	Posted - 2013.11.24 02:30:00 - [35] - Quote Atiim wrote: Mia Romani wrote: Atiim wrote: Please tell me how not restocking 5-10k ISK MLT/STD gear is gamebreaking when 90% of the playerbase has 20m-2B ISK in their wallet? By the very least, make them BPCs How do you think those players got so rich in the first place? 150 clones per match, 10k ISK per clone, that's 1.5 million ISK injected into the economy by every match. ISK is coming into the economy, and it is not leaving. Of course wallets are going to get fat. How idiotic are you? These people didn't get rich because of BPOs. They got rich from constantly playing in PC battles that have 1-5m ISK payouts. These players got rich from their corps who biomass the clones on their districts for ISK. I'd love to see someone die 150 times in a match. My 2 year old son can't even die 150 times! The worst he ever did was 0-35. And he can't even hold the joystick properly! If you manage to die 150 times in a single match then you need to stop playing DUST. No I got rich because I am thrifty and watch my death to ISK ratio per match. Well that and a huge injection of ISK at the beginning of uprising. {:)}{3GÇó>
Mia Romani Nexus Marines 53	Posted - 2013.11.24 02:34:00 - [36] - Quote Atiim wrote: Mia Romani wrote: Atiim wrote: Please tell me how not restocking 5-10k ISK MLT/STD gear is gamebreaking when 90% of the playerbase has 20m-2B ISK in their wallet? By the very least, make them BPCs How do you think those players got so rich in the first place? 150 clones per match, 10k ISK per clone, that's 1.5 million ISK injected into the economy by every match. ISK is coming into the economy, and it is not leaving. Of course wallets are going to get fat. How idiotic are you? These people didn't get rich because of BPOs. They got rich from constantly playing in PC battles that have 1-5m ISK payouts. These players got rich from their corps who biomass the clones on their districts for ISK. I'd love to see someone die 150 times in a match. My 2 year old son can't even die 150 times! The worst he ever did was 0-35. And he can't even hold the joystick properly! If you manage to die 150 times in a single match then you need to stop playing DUST. I could ask you the same question. Whether one person dies 150 times, or 15 people die 10 times each, it still adds up to 150 dead clones. And yes, I'm not denying that PC is also a pretty big ISK faucet... But I ask you: How many PC matches happen each day? How many instant battles occur each day? How much do you think each one pays out in total, per day, to the entire player-base combined? Interstellar Crossroads
xLuca Brasi DUST University Ivy League 89	Posted - 2013.11.24 02:37:00 - [37] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Atiim wrote: Mia Romani wrote: Atiim wrote: Please tell me how not restocking 5-10k ISK MLT/STD gear is gamebreaking when 90% of the playerbase has 20m-2B ISK in their wallet? By the very least, make them BPCs How do you think those players got so rich in the first place? 150 clones per match, 10k ISK per clone, that's 1.5 million ISK injected into the economy by every match. ISK is coming into the economy, and it is not leaving. Of course wallets are going to get fat. How idiotic are you? These people didn't get rich because of BPOs. They got rich from constantly playing in PC battles that have 1-5m ISK payouts. These players got rich from their corps who biomass the clones on their districts for ISK. I'd love to see someone die 150 times in a match. My 2 year old son can't even die 150 times! The worst he ever did was 0-35. And he can't even hold the joystick properly! If you manage to die 150 times in a single match then you need to stop playing DUST. I could ask you the same question. Whether one person dies 150 times, or 15 people die 10 times each, it still adds up to 150 dead clones. And yes, I'm not denying that PC is also a pretty big ISK faucet... But I ask you: How many PC matches happen each day? How many instant battles occur each day? How much do you think each one pays out in total, per day, to the entire player-base combined? ummm.. you apparently don't understand PC... first lots of matches happen...all some do is PC... second, you don't even have to have a match to earn isk in PC.... SAY NO TO BPO REMOVALS!
Mia Romani Nexus Marines 53	Posted - 2013.11.24 02:45:00 - [38] - Quote xLuca Brasi wrote: Mia Romani wrote: Atiim wrote: Mia Romani wrote: Atiim wrote: Please tell me how not restocking 5-10k ISK MLT/STD gear is gamebreaking when 90% of the playerbase has 20m-2B ISK in their wallet? By the very least, make them BPCs How do you think those players got so rich in the first place? 150 clones per match, 10k ISK per clone, that's 1.5 million ISK injected into the economy by every match. ISK is coming into the economy, and it is not leaving. Of course wallets are going to get fat. How idiotic are you? These people didn't get rich because of BPOs. They got rich from constantly playing in PC battles that have 1-5m ISK payouts. These players got rich from their corps who biomass the clones on their districts for ISK. I'd love to see someone die 150 times in a match. My 2 year old son can't even die 150 times! The worst he ever did was 0-35. And he can't even hold the joystick properly! If you manage to die 150 times in a single match then you need to stop playing DUST. I could ask you the same question. Whether one person dies 150 times, or 15 people die 10 times each, it still adds up to 150 dead clones. And yes, I'm not denying that PC is also a pretty big ISK faucet... But I ask you: How many PC matches happen each day? How many instant battles occur each day? How much do you think each one pays out in total, per day, to the entire player-base combined? ummm.. you apparently don't understand PC... first lots of matches happen...all some do is PC... second, you don't even have to have a match to earn isk in PC.... Each district comes out of reinforcement once per day, generating an opportunity for a single match to occur that day. After an hour, the district goes back into reinforcement mode and everyone involved gets a fat paycheck. Once per district per day, right? With 245 districts in Molden Heath, that puts a hard cap on this occuring at most 245 times per day. Do you suppose there might be more than 245 instant battles per day? Interstellar Crossroads
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 1867	Posted - 2013.11.24 02:48:00 - [39] - Quote So 245 battles means folks are getting paid pub salaries?
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1314	Posted - 2013.11.24 02:49:00 - [40] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Atiim wrote: How idiotic are you? These people didn't get rich because of BPOs. They got rich from constantly playing in PC battles that have 1-5m ISK payouts. These players got rich from their corps who biomass the clones on their districts for ISK. I'd love to see someone die 150 times in a match. My 2 year old son can't even die 150 times! The worst he ever did was 0-35. And he can't even hold the joystick properly! If you manage to die 150 times in a single match then you need to stop playing DUST. I could ask you the same question. Whether one person dies 150 times, or 15 people die 10 times each, it still adds up to 150 dead clones. And yes, I'm not denying that PC is also a pretty big ISK faucet... But I ask you: How many PC matches happen each day? How many instant battles occur each day? How much do you think each one pays out in total, per day, to the entire player-base combined? Your logic is shotty at best, as it assumes that all 15-16 people are running BPOs. It also assumes that every match is ended by a team depleting it's clone reserves I don't know about Instant Matches, but as of right now 77 districts are under attack, and the biomass value of all clones currently in Molden Heath is about 9,445,920,000 ISK. While you will never make 9.4 Billion ISK in one day by running Instant Battles, you can deploy an infinite amount of times. So to the average player, Public Contracts are much more profitable. Tell me, If BPOs are game-breaking, why shouldn't we take away the 4 BPOs that all players have? Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND

Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 371	Posted - 2013.11.24 03:01:00 - [41] - Quote Atiim wrote: Mia Romani wrote: Atiim wrote: How idiotic are you? These people didn't get rich because of BPOs. They got rich from constantly playing in PC battles that have 1-5m ISK payouts. These players got rich from their corps who biomass the clones on their districts for ISK. I'd love to see someone die 150 times in a match. My 2 year old son can't even die 150 times! The worst he ever did was 0-35. And he can't even hold the joystick properly! If you manage to die 150 times in a single match then you need to stop playing DUST. I could ask you the same question. Whether one person dies 150 times, or 15 people die 10 times each, it still adds up to 150 dead clones. And yes, I'm not denying that PC is also a pretty big ISK faucet... But I ask you: How many PC matches happen each day? How many instant battles occur each day? How much do you think each one pays out in total, per day, to the entire player-base combined? Your logic is shotty at best, as it assumes that all 15-16 people are running BPOs. It also assumes that every match is ended by a team depleting it's clone reserves I don't know about Instant Matches, but as of right now 77 districts are under attack, and the biomass value of all clones currently in Molden Heath is about 9,445,920,000 ISK. While you will never make 9.4 Billion ISK in one day by running Instant Battles, you can deploy an infinite amount of times. So to the average player, Public Contracts are much more profitable. Tell me, If BPOs are game-breaking, why shouldn't we take away the 4 BPOs that all players have? Whether or not BPOs are game breaking is not the issue here. The issue is that when people decided to spend their real money to purchace in game currency, it was under the pretence that the item they were purchasing would be permeant. Now we find out that they are not, and further that our refund for that item comes in the form of in game currency, for witch there is no truly practical aplication. {:)}{3GÇó>
Mia Romani Nexus Marines 53	Posted - 2013.11.24 03:13:00 - [42] - Quote Atiim wrote: Your logic is shotty at best, as it assumes that all 15-16 people are running BPOs. It also assumes that every match is ended by a team depleting it's clone reserves I don't know about Instant Matches, but as of right now 77 districts are under attack, and the biomass value of all clones currently in Molden Heath is about 9,445,920,000 ISK. While you will never make 9.4 Billion ISK in one day by running Instant Battles, you can deploy an infinite amount of times. So to the average player, Public Contracts are much more profitable. Tell me, If BPOs are game-breaking, why shouldn't we take away the 4 BPOs that all players have? Yes, I am over-simplifying things somewhat with my assumptions, though I think the sheer quantity of public contract matches that occur each day would be enough to far outweigh them. We have what? An average of 2000-3000 players active at any given time? That's enough to fill 60-90 concurrent matches at any given time of the day. Let me make some more shoddy assumptions: If each match lasted 30 minutes on average, we'd be seeing over 120-180 matches played per hour, or anywhere between and 2800 and 4300 matches per day. If each match pays out 100k-200k ISK per player, then each match will pay out a total of 3.2 - 6.4 million ISK across all players. Even taking the lowest figures, 3.2 million ISK per match, 2,800 matches per day, we're still looking at minimum 8,960,000,000 ISK paid out per day by public matches. Even a handful of players are making a tidy profit from PC, and even if not all players are running BPO gear, it is still safe to safe that public contracts are injecting far more ISK into the economy than PC is... And if public contracts are not removing just as much ISK from the economy as they generate, then we are sitting on an ISK faucet. Interstellar Crossroads
skippy678 F.T.U. 133	Posted - 2013.11.24 03:14:00 - [43] - Quote xLuca Brasi wrote: Badonk Adonk wrote: Ccp proved themselves unstrustworthy at the end of closed beta, why the hell would you give these people more money? Have ccpee done anything in the last 6 months to justify getting paid to develop this trash? Got milk? eventually ccp proves themselves untrustworthy to all of us.... for me it took them stealing from me before I lost my faith and loyalty.... I feel so betrayed, and used. boohoo, poor baby. U.play.good? F.T.U. Recruiting Thread
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 1869	Posted - 2013.11.24 03:14:00 - [44] - Quote EULA deceptively protects...
Mia Romani Nexus Marines 53	Posted - 2013.11.24 03:15:00 - [45] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Atiim wrote: Tell me, If BPOs are game-breaking, why shouldn't we take away the 4 BPOs that all players have? Whether or not BPOs are game breaking is not the issue here. It absolutely is the issue here: If they weren't breaking the game, CCP wouldn't be opposed to them and then we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Interstellar Crossroads
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn 561	Posted - 2013.11.24 03:20:00 - [46] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: we should start charging for clones. that is actually a great idea. i would actually go one step further and adopt a eve clone like system although slightly different for obvious reasons. 4 clone levels mlt/bsc/adv/proto each can only fit items of the same or lower level however each limb etc can be upgraded to use the next level up gear. each clone would cost "x" amount of isk. you buy your clones off the market and adjust them in a new clone augmenting screen on the neo com. so say you are normally proto but want to use mlt/bpo gear. you are already in proto clones so going down to lower gear is not isk efficient if you die. if you are a mlt user then using a proto clone is not isk efficient. key here is augmenting your clone just enough to what you need. anyone who sticks to this is isk efficient but going either way would not be so more isk sunk. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 371	Posted - 2013.11.24 03:23:00 - [47] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Atiim wrote: Tell me, If BPOs are game-breaking, why shouldn't we take away the 4 BPOs that all players have? Whether or not BPOs are game breaking is not the issue here. It absolutely is the issue here: If they weren't breaking the game, CCP wouldn't be opposed to them and then we wouldn't even be having this discussion. That is CCPs problem (as they are most definitely the progenitor of the problem). The solution to which is to man up (take responsibility for the problem YOU - CCP - has caused) and do the right thing. Which in this case would be either cash refund or changing the BPOs to function in a way as to still be worth spending the money on but not game braking. End of story man. It is an obvious swindle here. {:)}{3GÇó>
skippy678 F.T.U. 133	Posted - 2013.11.24 03:24:00 - [48] - Quote skippy678 wrote: xLuca Brasi wrote: Badonk Adonk wrote: Ccp proved themselves unstrustworthy at the end of closed beta, why the hell would you give these people more money? Have ccpee done anything in the last 6 months to justify getting paid to develop this trash? Got milk? eventually ccp proves themselves untrustworthy to all of us.... for me it took them stealing from me before I lost my faith and loyalty.... I feel so betrayed, and used. boohoo, poor baby. The market will not exist until All the BPO's are gone. when interviewed at eve vegas CCP said they need to be removed. I would rather be able to sell my salvage then alow you to run head first into action not caring if you die. get ready for the rest to go..1.8-1.9 ish after they release the racial suits Send me your isk when you quit Luca..nobody wil miss you or care when your gone. U.play.good? F.T.U. Recruiting Thread
Thurak1 Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 379	Posted - 2013.11.24 05:19:00 - [49] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Look here is a proper analogy for the current BPO debacle: Guy goes into a store and purchases an item, leaves the store and returns home. He sets the item on his bed stand and turns in for the night. Upon waking the next morning, he finds the item is gone and in its place there sits a letter an a coupon that says "store credit" on it. The letter reads as follows: I am sorry but we at Swindle Mart have decided to remove the item you purchased last night from our inventory and have further decided that it would not be in our best interest that you continue ownership of the item you purchased. In place of the item we reclaimed while you slept last night, we have issued you a certificate for store credit, equal to the value of the item we reclaimed. Thankyou. Upon reading this note, our protagonist becomes infuriated upon realizing that there is ABSOLUTLY nothing else at swindle mart that he/she is interested in purchasing, and that the store credit is absolutly worthless to him/her. So he gets dressed and goes down to swindle mart to talk to the manager and request a full refund. At this time our protagonist is informed that "swindle mart does not offer refunds only store credit." Upon learning this, our protagonist starts a one man picket line outside of swindle Mart and is quickly joined by others who had just so happened to sleep a little longer that day. {edit>>> oops sorry about the typos. I was trying to fix serve and eat dinner while I wrote this. It fixed now though. Very good analogy. For me the only thing in the game i was willing to spend cash on was blueprints. They are no longer available to buy therefore ccp is not getting any of my money. ISK is too wasy to obtain and i earn sp's in my sleep so i see no reason to buy anything else at this point. CCP needs to come up with something worthy of me spending my money on the game good microtransactions like 1$ to change my camo or sight upgrades so i could get say a 10x zoom on my sniper scope. Maybe the scope is a bad example but things people would gladly spend small amounts of money on but that would have no real effect on the game.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 353	Posted - 2013.11.24 05:26:00 - [50] - Quote how little you understand about the end game of dust... and the fact that we don't use smelly bpo's.. they have collected "DUST" since purchased... LAV BPO's being the one exception. But seeing how we can't lock vehicles?

KA24DERT Pure Innocence. EoN. 262	Posted - 2013.11.24 05:28:00 - [51] - Quote No, BPO defenders do not care about the long term health of the game. They care about capitalizing on a design mistake CCP made, and will cry as CCP continues to correct that mistake.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 7936	Posted - 2013.11.24 05:29:00 - [52] - Quote The price of militia gear is a negligible loss if you aren't a talentless nobody. Die less than 30 times and you're basically guaranteed to turn a profit. Many of us agree, no more BPOs. But don't touch the ones we have, particularly the ones that were bought as parts of packs, and not an AUR purchase. The removal and refunding of some normal BPOs is an acceptable compromise, but when they come after my Guristas Saga.... Keep the issue contained, and let the game grow. At absolute "worst", treat them like EVE BPOs once we have manufacturing. Read / Vid / Stream
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 443	Posted - 2013.11.24 05:33:00 - [53] - Quote walks by, pauses You people do realize that the only BPOs that are being removed are the ones for items that won't exist anymore, right? Not all of them? Just checking. Anyway, see you later. continues walking "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 225	Posted - 2013.11.24 05:38:00 - [54] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: guy uses full bpo suit... isk equivalent is about 10-15k guy in full aurum proto gear.. isk equivalent about 100k+ guy in bpo set dies 10 times losing the eve economy 150k isk at best guy in full aurum proto gear dies 10 times losing the eve economy 1million isk+ now you tell me which one of these is more devastating to the economy and game Show me a full BPO suit worth even half of that... HEre is the thing about the BPO holders, they are the ones who have actually funded this game, so of course they care. an easy fix to Matchmaking
Rusty Shallows 542	Posted - 2013.11.24 05:46:00 - [55] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: we should start charging for clones. I'd be perfectly fine with that so long as the price of the clone was attached to the type of dropsuit equipped. Explain it as only sufficiently engineered clones are able to support the more technically advanced dropsuits. I think IWS was being sarcastic. Unless the goal really is to make the New-Player-Experience even worse. Then by all means let's kick the crap out of the people who are getting stomped. It could work but the war-point/payout mechanics are so FUBAR in this game it isn't even funny. Major overhauls would be needed. "She may not be Miss Right but she'll do right now." SR-71 310k+ SP for +0.05m/s (>2in) on a Heavy. Totally worth it.
Rusty Shallows 542	Posted - 2013.11.24 05:53:00 - [56] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: So the discussion has been raging for weeks now, and so far the scope of the discussion has almost entirely been "I'm being ripped off!"... And yeah, maybe you are, maybe you aren't... But this thread is about something else. snip There is no "maybe," they are if the same items reappear later. This entire thread reads like a reason why having market forces in First-Person-Shooters is a bad idea. "She may not be Miss Right but she'll do right now." SR-71 310k+ SP for +0.05m/s (>2in) on a Heavy. Totally worth it.
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD Public Disorder. 339	Posted - 2013.11.24 06:13:00 - [57] - Quote What you fail to understand is I own BPOs, in fact, enough BPOs to create an infinite fitting, but I run ADV/PRO gear 99% of the time. Running at least ADV gear makes it so I can still profit yet still getting a slight edge over most people. BPOs will cause no problems in the long run of Dust. ZionTCD Director & Ammar Loyalist Amarr Sentinel \| Amarr Logi \| *Losematar* Scout What is a signature?
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle 64	Posted - 2013.11.24 06:17:00 - [58] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: TL;DR "Do BPO defenders even care about the long-term health of this game?" I imagine that they care that they were lied to and subsequently swindled out of their money. They weren't though - they were promised permanence so long as those items exist, they don't anymore and you signed off on an EULA saying 'at some point in the future we change, remove, or add things and you may or may not be happy about it, but ultimately we are doing it because of [reasons]' The EULA informed you that this could happen, you accepted the EULA.
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle 64	Posted - 2013.11.24 06:22:00 - [59] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: guy uses full bpo suit... isk equivalent is about 10-15k guy in full aurum proto gear.. isk equivalent about 100k+ guy in bpo set dies 10 times losing the eve economy 150k isk at best guy in full aurum proto gear dies 10 times losing the eve economy 1million isk+ now you tell me which one of these is more devastating to the economy and game Eve economy is so hyper-inflated due to stuff like incursions that the proto guy potentially losing 10m isk a match is doing a few (small) favors to eve. In truth there would need to be trillions of isk taken out of eve to reduce the inflation, but the proto guy certainly isn't doing any harm.
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 376	Posted - 2013.11.24 06:28:00 - [60] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: TL;DR "Do BPO defenders even care about the long-term health of this game?" I imagine that they care that they were lied to and subsequently swindled out of their money. They weren't though - they were promised permanence so long as those items exist, they don't anymore and you signed off on an EULA saying 'at some point in the future we change, remove, or add things and you may or may not be happy about it, but ultimately we are doing it because of [reasons]' The EULA informed you that this could happen, you accepted the EULA. Negative the EULA says that they will be replaced with somethingif equal value, and Aur is not of equal value. {:)}{3GÇó>

Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 225	Posted - 2013.11.24 06:36:00 - [61] - Quote As long as I am pricing stuff out; Amarr Anti-Armor: 2685 isk Medic: 2445 isk Frontline: 2685 isk Sniper: 2010 isk Those are free to EVERYONE forever, meaning that they are most likely used much more than BPO fittings and they do about 1/3 of the economic damage per suit. I would also like to say that my BPO suits tend to cost about 15k a piece. EDIT: also like I said, people who purchased BPOs are the ones who have been actually supporting this game. an easy fix to Matchmaking
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle 64	Posted - 2013.11.24 06:46:00 - [62] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: TL;DR "Do BPO defenders even care about the long-term health of this game?" I imagine that they care that they were lied to and subsequently swindled out of their money. They weren't though - they were promised permanence so long as those items exist, they don't anymore and you signed off on an EULA saying 'at some point in the future we change, remove, or add things and you may or may not be happy about it, but ultimately we are doing it because of [reasons]' The EULA informed you that this could happen, you accepted the EULA. Negative, the EULA says that they will be replaced with something of equal value, and Aur is not of equal value. Says who. You? The other people upset that their infinite militia items got taken away? Because if its simply a case of a consumer stating that x amount of ingame currency != 'equal value' of item that was purchased with ingame currency, I have to say I disagree and because I'm also a consumer the argument now has some real issues.
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 376	Posted - 2013.11.24 06:46:00 - [63] - Quote "also like I said, people who purchased BPOs are the ones who have been actually supporting this game." And your point is what exactly? That some people don't mind getting rolled. As long as we are pricing things, how many Aur standard LAVs can one buy with the Aur refunded in exchange for a BPO that provided infinite uses? {:)}{3GÇó>
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 376	Posted - 2013.11.24 06:48:00 - [64] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: TL;DR "Do BPO defenders even care about the long-term health of this game?" I imagine that they care that they were lied to and subsequently swindled out of their money. They weren't though - they were promised permanence so long as those items exist, they don't anymore and you signed off on an EULA saying 'at some point in the future we change, remove, or add things and you may or may not be happy about it, but ultimately we are doing it because of [reasons]' The EULA informed you that this could happen, you accepted the EULA. Negative, the EULA says that they will be replaced with something of equal value, and Aur is not of equal value. Says who. You? The other people upset that their infinite militia items got taken away? Because if its simply a case of a consumer stating that x amount of ingame currency != 'equal value' of item that was purchased with ingame currency, I have to say I disagree and because I'm also a consumer the argument now has some real issues. See post above this one. {:)}{3GÇó>
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 660	Posted - 2013.11.24 06:48:00 - [65] - Quote a weak argument. all mmos with markets have farmable resources that generate currencies out of thin air. Also, every time a BPO player kills a proto player he makes his ISK many times over, so it may have a close to neutral balance of ISK flow once markets open. Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 227	Posted - 2013.11.24 06:51:00 - [66] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: "also like I said, people who purchased BPOs are the ones who have been actually supporting this game." And your point is what exactly? That some people don't mind getting rolled. As long as we are pricing things, how many Aur standard LAVs can one buy with the Aur refunded in exchange for a BPO that provided infinite uses? That would be a big fat 0. LAVs BPOs were sold in packs, meaning they were sold directly for real life money, not aurum. an easy fix to Matchmaking
Thanatus Sleep 22	Posted - 2013.11.24 06:51:00 - [67] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: As long as I am pricing stuff out; Amarr Anti-Armor: 2685 isk Medic: 2445 isk Frontline: 2685 isk Sniper: 2010 isk Those are free to EVERYONE forever, meaning that they are most likely used much more than BPO fittings and they do about 1/3 of the economic damage per suit. I would also like to say that my BPO suits tend to cost about 15k a piece. EDIT: *also like I said, people who purchased BPOs are the ones who have been actually supporting this game. ...... That * me off, what about the AUR BPC players. Im a sad merc Aq-Rg SAY YES** TO BPO REMOVALS ON 1.7 PATCH
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 227	Posted - 2013.11.24 06:54:00 - [68] - Quote Thanatus Sleep wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: As long as I am pricing stuff out; Amarr Anti-Armor: 2685 isk Medic: 2445 isk Frontline: 2685 isk Sniper: 2010 isk Those are free to EVERYONE forever, meaning that they are most likely used much more than BPO fittings and they do about 1/3 of the economic damage per suit. I would also like to say that my BPO suits tend to cost about 15k a piece. EDIT: *also like I said, people who purchased BPOs are the ones who have been actually supporting this game. ...... That *** me off, what about the AUR BPC players. Of course they have been supporting the game as well. I myself have purchased a few aurum items in dust. Here is the difference though.. Aurum BPC players are not the ones being vilified here are they? an easy fix to Matchmaking
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 376	Posted - 2013.11.24 06:56:00 - [69] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: "also like I said, people who purchased BPOs are the ones who have been actually supporting this game." And your point is what exactly? That some people don't mind getting rolled. As long as we are pricing things, how many Aur standard LAVs can one buy with the Aur refunded in exchange for a BPO that provided infinite uses? That would be a big fat 0. LAVs BPOs were sold in packs, meaning they were sold directly for real life money, not aurum. {:)}{3GÇó>
Evicer THE HECATONCHIRES 61	Posted - 2013.11.24 08:47:00 - [70] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: So let's review here: Proto-stompers find it relatively easy to kill BPO-users, and BPO-users don't mind dying. Each time a proto-stomper dies, the ISK that was spent on that suit is added to the end of match payout pool, redistributing the ISK that was spent. Each time a proto-stomper kills a BPO user, some free ISK is generated out of thin air, and injected into that same end of match payout pool. Im just going to stop you right there...because you couldnt be any more wrong.There is a bulk amount of ISK issued for the contract...by an NPC (out of thin air corp) Your after match payout is based on your after match position 1-16 which is dictated by WP. No.1 gets the most.No. 16 gets the least....If you are wearing BPO's you are squishy and far less likely to "own" the opposing team in any fashion as these suits are militia equivalent.In reality a high sp character is actually giving him/herself a handicap.Is far less likely to generate enough WP for OB and so on. Having had the chance to play in squads with many great fps players in this game has taught me that it is as much, if not more of a competition to get to first and get the lion share of the cash....a game within a game.I call it Hungry hungry hippo.....Risk /Reward PC payout falls under a different mechanic. That one was free the next one you'll have to pay me for. Closed Beta Tester since Crater Lake My motto regarding haters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8gAb3uc6f

xLuca Brasi Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 106	Posted - 2013.11.24 18:43:00 - [71] - Quote Evicer wrote: Mia Romani wrote: So let's review here: Proto-stompers find it relatively easy to kill BPO-users, and BPO-users don't mind dying. Each time a proto-stomper dies, the ISK that was spent on that suit is added to the end of match payout pool, redistributing the ISK that was spent. Each time a proto-stomper kills a BPO user, some free ISK is generated out of thin air, and injected into that same end of match payout pool. Im just going to stop you right there...because you couldnt be any more wrong.There is a bulk amount of ISK issued for the contract...by an NPC (out of thin air corp) Your after match payout is based on your after match position 1-16 which is dictated by WP. No.1 gets the most.No. 16 gets the least....If you are wearing BPO's you are squishy and far less likely to "own" the opposing team in any fashion as these suits are militia equivalent.In reality a high sp character is actually giving him/herself a handicap.Is far less likely to generate enough WP for OB and so on. Having had the chance to play in squads with many great fps players in this game has taught me that it is as much, if not more of a competition to get to first and get the lion share of the cash....a game within a game.I call it Hungry hungry hippo....and so if they wear proto. So must I. Unless I want to get left in the dust and say get 5th place instead of first.....Risk /Reward PC payout falls under a different mechanic. That one was free the next one you'll have to pay me for. great post! +1 SAY NO TO BPO REMOVALS!
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 2440	Posted - 2013.11.24 19:01:00 - [72] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Do BPO defenders even care about the long-term health of this game? Observes the minor issue of BPOs. Fails to grasp why such attention and effort were paid by CCP. Fails to grasp the basis for tear-filled outrage by Community. Observes the HUGE problem of weapon imbalance. Fails to grasp the lack of attention or effort paid by CCP. Fails to grasp how the Community can defend the AR and ScR. Do AR / ScR Apologists even care about the long-term health of this game?
Arron Rift Better Hide R Die 201	Posted - 2013.11.24 19:29:00 - [73] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Mia Romani wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Upon learning this, our protagonist starts a one man picket line outside of swindle Mart and is quickly joined by others who had just so happened to sleep a little longer that day. Mia Romani wrote: While BPO users may indeed have a valid point about not getting what they paid for, they don't seem to realise that what they paid for is a permanent and ongoing disadvantage against the "1%" of Dust players, and that continued BPO use is only going to continue widening the gap between the "haves" and the "have-nots". The item you originally bought was in and of itself a crutch, one that is keeping you poor while making the proto-stompers richer. You're picketing for your right to continue being stomped by far richer players... Lolwut. No dude, I do just fine with my BPOs. If proto stomps are occurring it is very doubtful that it has anything to with my play style. If you aren't dying, then why do you want BPO gear? It is categorically worse than proto gear in every way except cost. Well, yes, but this all depends on how MUCH better, and if that's worth the cost. Arguably this game has twitch shooter, and proto-vs-bpo battles are determined as follows: 1) if bpo dude sneaks up behind proto dude, bpo dude wins. 2) if proto dude sneaks up on bpo dude, proto dude wins. So aside from the occasional instance when both parties just face each other and spray bullets at exactly the same time, it's more about reflexes and awareness anyways.
skippy678 F.T.U. 134	Posted - 2013.11.24 19:34:00 - [74] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: walks by, pauses You people do realize that the only BPOs that are being removed are the ones for items that won't exist anymore, right? Not all of them? Just checking. Anyway, it's taco day in the cafeteria, so I'm outta here. continues walking watch the interview at eve vegas with zion shad and see what they say about BPOs. now you realize U.play.good? F.T.U. Recruiting Thread
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 2444	Posted - 2013.11.24 20:03:00 - [75] - Quote Arron Rift wrote: Arguably this game has twitch shooter, and proto-vs-bpo battles are determined as follows: 1) if bpo dude sneaks up behind proto dude, bpo dude wins. 2) if proto dude sneaks up on bpo dude, proto dude wins. Point #1 reeks of logic and reason. I wish this were true. Balance here is determined by mysterious alchemy. I will correct your formula for you: 1) If anything sneaks up behind proto EZ Mode, proto EZ Mode wins. 2) If proto EZ Mode sneaks up behind something, proto EZ Mode wins. * EZ Mode = MedFrame + AR or ScR
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 48	Posted - 2013.11.24 20:58:00 - [76] - Quote Ahh, this again... As I stated in other threads with the same topic, instead of banging our head together to no end, let's instead focus on what would make an acceptable reimbursement to BPOs. And to all of you who say "cash" or "psn credits", you are only comparing what's currently in the game! Let's think outside the box, and perhaps give CCP some good ideas which WOULD satisfy us IN GAME. With that said, please remember that within the the New Eden universe (EvE + Dust), anything that magically spawns out of thin air IS game breaking, which is why I fully support the 100% removal of BPOs in its current form. I already stated what would be my suggestion in the other threads if you are interested, so I won't repeat myself here...
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 209	Posted - 2013.11.24 21:03:00 - [77] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: Arron Rift wrote: Arguably this game has twitch shooter, and proto-vs-bpo battles are determined as follows: 1) if bpo dude sneaks up behind proto dude, bpo dude wins. 2) if proto dude sneaks up on bpo dude, proto dude wins. Point #1 reeks of logic and reason. I wish this were true. Such straight-forward thinking is what gets Scouts killed. The Alchemy of Balance is far more mysterious ... I will correct your formula for you: 1) If anything sneaks up behind proto EZ Mode, proto EZ Mode wins. 2) If proto EZ Mode sneaks up behind something, proto EZ Mode wins. 3) If proto EZ Mode doesn't win, something gets nerfed. * EZ Mode = MedFrame + AR or ScR Im starting to dislike your constant QQ vs SCRs....
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 2447	Posted - 2013.11.24 21:24:00 - [78] - Quote ACE OF JOKERS wrote: Im starting to dislike your constant QQ vs SCRs.... You may not be inclined to hip-fire spam your ScR. That doesn't mean that hip-fire spam doesn't occur. You should try it sometime. It is supremely effective. There is good news, that I can share with you, perhaps in concession: It would appear that the new Rifles will be just as imbalanced as the old Rifles. So soon, your gun will be one-quarter of the TTK problem, an improvement from one-half.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1147	Posted - 2013.11.24 21:58:00 - [79] - Quote Said it before, I'll say it again. Give BPOs a Bill of Materials and give us some mindnumbing PvE resource gathering. Give us a player market and let us gouge it with the manufactured items. CCP ends up removing nothing and giving us promised content. In the interim, make them useless if you must, but do not remove them from our inventories. Remember, there are still those of us who have Cardiac Stimulant BPOs. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
xLuca Brasi Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 120	Posted - 2013.11.24 23:07:00 - [80] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Said it before, I'll say it again. Give BPOs a Bill of Materials and give us some mindnumbing PvE resource gathering. Give us a player market and let us gouge it with the manufactured items. CCP ends up removing nothing and giving us promised content. In the interim, make them useless if you must, but do not remove them from our inventories. Remember, there are still those of us who have Cardiac Stimulant BPOs. that still isn't what I paid for... if they did this I would like my psn credit returned so I can choose if I would want to buy that new version of an old product. SAY NO TO BPO REMOVALS!

Miokai Zahou Film Actors Guilds 55	Posted - 2013.11.24 23:34:00 - [81] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: Ahh, this again... As I stated in other threads with the same topic, instead of banging our head together to no end, let's instead focus on what would make an acceptable reimbursement to BPOs. And to all of you who say "cash" or "psn credits", you are only comparing what's currently in the game! Let's think outside the box, and perhaps give CCP some good ideas which WOULD satisfy us IN GAME. With that said, please remember that within the the New Eden universe (EvE + Dust), anything that magically spawns out of thin air IS game breaking, which is why I fully support the 100% removal of BPOs in its current form. I already stated what would be my suggestion in the other threads if you are interested, so I won't repeat myself here... Very well. If CCP decided to take all my BPOs (including my Templar set - I still have another set for sale!) Then I expected full reimbursement for my purchase of the $150 pack in a hell of a lot of AURUM and free skill points.... A lot of skill points. I'm pushing already almost 20 million but it's the principal of the free skill points if they take my isk generating completely 100% bpo set off me.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1150	Posted - 2013.11.25 00:14:00 - [82] - Quote xLuca Brasi wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Said it before, I'll say it again. Give BPOs a Bill of Materials and give us some mindnumbing PvE resource gathering. Give us a player market and let us gouge it with the manufactured items. CCP ends up removing nothing and giving us promised content. In the interim, make them useless if you must, but do not remove them from our inventories. Remember, there are still those of us who have Cardiac Stimulant BPOs. that still isn't what I paid for... if they did this I would like my psn credit returned so I can choose if I would want to buy that new version of an old product. Well, that is what I was under the impression that I was buying. Should I throw up my arms and wail my lament to the heavens? Free stuffz is bad m'kay? If there is a due process that I can follow to provide myself and my corp with low cost equipment (as well as padding our wallets in the process), that is much less gamebreaking (arguably, it is game enriching as it contributes to the addition of promised content). Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
xLuca Brasi Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 125	Posted - 2013.11.25 00:32:00 - [83] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: xLuca Brasi wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Said it before, I'll say it again. Give BPOs a Bill of Materials and give us some mindnumbing PvE resource gathering. Give us a player market and let us gouge it with the manufactured items. CCP ends up removing nothing and giving us promised content. In the interim, make them useless if you must, but do not remove them from our inventories. Remember, there are still those of us who have Cardiac Stimulant BPOs. that still isn't what I paid for... if they did this I would like my psn credit returned so I can choose if I would want to buy that new version of an old product. Well, that is what I was under the impression that I was buying. Should I throw up my arms and wail my lament to the heavens? Free stuffz is bad m'kay? If there is a due process that I can follow to provide myself and my corp with low cost equipment (as well as padding our wallets in the process), that is much less gamebreaking (arguably, it is game enriching as it contributes to the addition of promised content). you wanns pad your wallet? go buy a district.... you will make billions more than you will with bpo's.... SAY NO TO BPO REMOVALS!
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1153	Posted - 2013.11.25 01:17:00 - [84] - Quote xLuca Brasi wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: xLuca Brasi wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Said it before, I'll say it again. Give BPOs a Bill of Materials and give us some mindnumbing PvE resource gathering. Give us a player market and let us gouge it with the manufactured items. CCP ends up removing nothing and giving us promised content. In the interim, make them useless if you must, but do not remove them from our inventories. Remember, there are still those of us who have Cardiac Stimulant BPOs. that still isn't what I paid for... if they did this I would like my psn credit returned so I can choose if I would want to buy that new version of an old product. Well, that is what I was under the impression that I was buying. Should I throw up my arms and wail my lament to the heavens? Free stuffz is bad m'kay? If there is a due process that I can follow to provide myself and my corp with low cost equipment (as well as padding our wallets in the process), that is much less gamebreaking (arguably, it is game enriching as it contributes to the addition of promised content). you wanns pad your wallet? go buy a district.... you will make billions more than you will with bpo's.... I want nothing to do with the blueberry muffin in Molden Heath. I'd rather game the market instead of broken mechanics. Until it isn't a broken faucet, **** PC Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 1881	Posted - 2013.11.25 03:55:00 - [85] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: xLuca Brasi wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: xLuca Brasi wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Said it before, I'll say it again. Give BPOs a Bill of Materials and give us some mindnumbing PvE resource gathering. Give us a player market and let us gouge it with the manufactured items. CCP ends up removing nothing and giving us promised content. In the interim, make them useless if you must, but do not remove them from our inventories. Remember, there are still those of us who have Cardiac Stimulant BPOs. that still isn't what I paid for... if they did this I would like my psn credit returned so I can choose if I would want to buy that new version of an old product. Well, that is what I was under the impression that I was buying. Should I throw up my arms and wail my lament to the heavens? Free stuffz is bad m'kay? If there is a due process that I can follow to provide myself and my corp with low cost equipment (as well as padding our wallets in the process), that is much less gamebreaking (arguably, it is game enriching as it contributes to the addition of promised content). you wanns pad your wallet? go buy a district.... you will make billions more than you will with bpo's.... I want nothing to do with the blueberry muffin in Molden Heath. I'd rather game the market instead of broken mechanics. Until it isn't a broken faucet, **** PC PC needs to be broken or shaken up a bit. Josef Stalins that control it. It will happen one day
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 227	Posted - 2013.11.25 03:56:00 - [86] - Quote BPO dont affect the Economic Health of the game AT ALL. BPO are not COMPETITIVE. You want to be competitive? You need to spend ISK. BPO only save you from 10-15k per suit in a pub match..thats all.
Thurak1 Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 386	Posted - 2013.11.25 04:58:00 - [87] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: No, BPO defenders do not care about the long term health of the game. They care about capitalizing on a design mistake CCP made, and will cry as CCP continues to correct that mistake. They sold a product that cost real money. If they eliminate it from the game they deprive paying customers of the product that they sold them. This is also known as stealing.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 263	Posted - 2013.11.25 11:20:00 - [88] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: So the discussion has been raging for weeks now, and so far the scope of the discussion has almost entirely been "I'm being ripped off!"... And yeah, maybe you are, maybe you aren't... But this thread is about something else. Let me begin with the seemingly innocent root cause: Players who die while using BPO gear still generate full end-of-match ISK payouts each time they die. No big deal, right? Well let's look at some of the other pieces in play here, and let's see if you too will share in my fridge horror moment: Players in full proto gear have better stats than players in full BPO gear. Players in full BPO gear are not punished for dying, and so are more likely to take risks. So let's review here: Proto-stompers find it relatively easy to kill BPO-users, and BPO-users don't mind dying. Each time a proto-stomper dies, the ISK that was spent on that suit is added to the end of match payout pool, redistributing the ISK that was spent. Each time a proto-stomper kills a BPO user, some free ISK is generated out of thin air, and injected into that same end of match payout pool. And thus we discover the real evil of "proto-stomping": These players who are going 20-0 against players in Militia BPO gear are receiving enormous amounts of free ISK that came from nowhere, while those players who are getting stomped are getting paid relatively little for their troubles. When the secondary market is introduced, these extremely rich proto-stompers are going to flood the market with their ready supply of ISK, causing prices to increase relative to their ability to spend. And what of the poor BPO-users? Well they're not making a whole lot of ISK to begin with, so all they'll see is a market full of things that are ridiculously over-priced and out of their reach... While BPO users may indeed have a valid point about not getting what they paid for, they don't seem to realise that what they paid for is a permanent and ongoing disadvantage against the "1%" of Dust players, and that continued BPO use is only going to continue widening the gap between the "haves" and the "have-nots". Don't believe me? Go watch CEO Pyrex's latest video (here), and listen to how he talks about the value of ISK and proto gear. No, he's not the cause of the problem. It's not his fault that BPO users are continually throwing free ISK at him... But it does illustrate the point. This is already happening, and it's only going to get worse when the secondary market comes in. Well let me be clear here its not the customers fault that CCP offered these Item. CCP advertised these items as permanent and offered them on their own without caring what effects those items will have on the econemy. Nobody forced CCP to offer BPO's. And if they remove the BPO's they will punish customers for their own faults. My second point BPO's won't affect economy in a much greater way than starter fits. You get 4 complete sets of militia grade BPO's don't these things harm the economy in a similar way? Are they neccessary sure otherwise nobody will be able to play this game once he is broke. Remember the current BPO's are mostly just std gear that is only marginally better than militia stuff. Regarding the current removal I think CCP found a elegant way to solve the issue. These Items were not part of a bundle and were solely sold via the market through AUR, so the refund is fine to me.
STABBEY Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 478	Posted - 2013.11.25 11:41:00 - [89] - Quote BPO's have been here much longer than the noobs crying for them to be removed. The only reason people are crying about them is because they dont have them. The BPO packs is CCP's biggest income dust side. Taking BPO's from the Vets that have been here since early closed beta would be ignorant. If you dont like the BPO's STFU and dont buy them. If you havent bought them then, again STFU about them. People have spent 100's of dollars on standard gear They've earned those blueprints for the amount of money they shelled out for you pansys to play a free game k? K. To Mia: sç+(-¼GÇ+-¼)sç+ Gÿú GÖ¦ Gÿñ Gäó © sç+(¬GÇ+¬)sç+ (-éGîú¦Ç_Gîú¦ü)ßòñ Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉ-Vet-GòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉ+¦Gû¼Gû¼ +¬(GùÅ¦«¦âGÇó)¦¦ (GùúGùó)GöîGê¬GöÉ (a+ç'¦Ç-'¦ü)a+ç GöîGê¬GöÉ(Gùú_Gùó)GöîGê¬GöÉ
Sarcastic Dreamkiller Northwind Alliance Dark Taboo 68	Posted - 2013.11.25 11:49:00 - [90] - Quote Nope, don't care at all.

A'Real Fury D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 439	Posted - 2013.11.25 11:57:00 - [91] - Quote Did CCP care when they introduced and sold BPOs? BPOs and the merc pack were the only items below -ú16 that had any real value to me and the vet and elite packs above -ú50. As BPOs and the merc pack have been removed the value of Aurum has diminished greatly so removing BPOs I already own influences how I perceive CCP and whether I trust them with RL money I.e. I no longer do so no more money will be spent on Dust 514. If one player does it then no big deal but if thousands do it then Dust will never be profitable and will need to draw assets away from CCPs successful games to keep on going. This would be a tough argument to present to their investors and directors when it comes to assigning resources to Dust.
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 749	Posted - 2013.11.25 14:30:00 - [92] - Quote Yes they do care. But I don't. I don't care about the removal of BPOs and I'm on a crusade to see this game utterly fail. So, yeah. The people defending the BPOs are the ones that should be listened to by CCP. "It's made with bits of real Gallente. So you know it's good." -GÇö Brian Fantana paraphrased
billy bloodbath2 Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2013.11.26 23:58:00 - [93] - Quote yes I care. I also care about the validity of my purchases from ccp
Evicer THE HECATONCHIRES 104	Posted - 2013.11.27 00:07:00 - [94] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: So the discussion has been raging for weeks now, and so far the scope of the discussion has almost entirely been "I'm being ripped off!"... And yeah, maybe you are, maybe you aren't... But this thread is about something else. Let me begin with the seemingly innocent root cause: Players who die while using BPO gear still generate full end-of-match ISK payouts each time they die. No big deal, right? Well let's look at some of the other pieces in play here, and let's see if you too will share in my fridge horror moment: Players in full proto gear have better stats than players in full BPO gear. Players in full BPO gear are not punished for dying, and so are more likely to take risks. So let's review here: Proto-stompers find it relatively easy to kill BPO-users, and BPO-users don't mind dying. Each time a proto-stomper dies, the ISK that was spent on that suit is added to the end of match payout pool, redistributing the ISK that was spent. Each time a proto-stomper kills a BPO user, some free ISK is generated out of thin air, and injected into that same end of match payout pool. And thus we discover the real evil of "proto-stomping": These players who are going 20-0 against players in Militia BPO gear are receiving enormous amounts of free ISK that came from nowhere, while those players who are getting stomped are getting paid relatively little for their troubles. When the secondary market is introduced, these extremely rich proto-stompers are going to flood the market with their ready supply of ISK, causing prices to increase relative to their ability to spend. And what of the poor BPO-users? Well they're not making a whole lot of ISK to begin with, so all they'll see is a market full of things that are ridiculously over-priced and out of their reach... While BPO users may indeed have a valid point about not getting what they paid for, they don't seem to realise that what they paid for is a permanent and ongoing disadvantage against the "1%" of Dust players, and that continued BPO use is only going to continue widening the gap between the "haves" and the "have-nots". Don't believe me? Go watch CEO Pyrex's latest video (here), and listen to how he talks about the value of ISK and proto gear. No, he's not the cause of the problem. It's not his fault that BPO users are continually throwing free ISK at him... But it does illustrate the point. This is already happening, and it's only going to get worse when the secondary market comes in. we'll say 50% of the player still existing in the game have BPO's and there BPO's work in this fashion .Then I pose this question to you .....who will buy your stuff, and why would a potential new player buy your stuff that is militia equivalent when they have starter fits? Closed Beta Tester since Crater Lake My motto regarding haters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8gAb3uc6fk
Rowdy Railgunner Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 200	Posted - 2013.11.27 00:14:00 - [95] - Quote The only thing BPOs hurt is CCPs pocket book. That is why they want us to sit idly by while they remove them from the game and only offer consumable items as a replacement. Anyone that thinks it is really damaging to the ingame economy is a CCP sympathizing parrot. It made my mind up though, I will not be purchasing any more AUR from CCP and I am letting my EVE accounts finally lapse as well. F2P, no more dollars from me.
Malkai Inos Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 998	Posted - 2013.11.27 00:18:00 - [96] - Quote Rowdy Railgunner wrote: The only thing BPOs hurt is CCPs pocket book. That is why they want us to sit idly by while they remove them from the game and only offer consumable items as a replacement. Anyone that thinks it is really damaging to the ingame economy is a CCP sympathizing parrot. It made my mind up though, I will not be purchasing any more AUR from CCP and I am letting my EVE accounts finally lapse as well. F2P, no more dollars from me. So on one hand BPOs were the only thing worth buying and removing them devaluates AUR, yet CCP is still doing it for teh monez. You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
Yelhsa Jin-Mao GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 166	Posted - 2013.11.27 00:30:00 - [97] - Quote A'Real Fury wrote: Did CCP care when they introduced and sold BPOs? BPOs and the merc pack were the only items below -ú16 that had any real value to me and the vet and elite packs above -ú50. As BPOs and the merc pack have been removed the value of Aurum has diminished greatly so removing BPOs I already own influences how I perceive CCP and whether I trust them with RL money I.e. I no longer do so no more money will be spent on Dust 514. If one player does it then no big deal but if thousands do it then Dust will never be profitable and will need to draw assets away from CCPs successful games to keep on going. This would be a tough argument to present to their investors and directors when it comes to assigning resources to Dust. I'm joining you too. No more money for you CCP, you took -ú160.00 of my money and you won't get a penny more. And I'm keeping my 62 BPOs too so don't even try and touch them. I can has ISK
billy bloodbath2 Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 7	Posted - 2013.11.27 04:50:00 - [98] - Quote Evicer wrote: Mia Romani wrote: So the discussion has been raging for weeks now, and so far the scope of the discussion has almost entirely been "I'm being ripped off!"... And yeah, maybe you are, maybe you aren't... But this thread is about something else. Let me begin with the seemingly innocent root cause: Players who die while using BPO gear still generate full end-of-match ISK payouts each time they die. No big deal, right? Well let's look at some of the other pieces in play here, and let's see if you too will share in my fridge horror moment: Players in full proto gear have better stats than players in full BPO gear. Players in full BPO gear are not punished for dying, and so are more likely to take risks. So let's review here: Proto-stompers find it relatively easy to kill BPO-users, and BPO-users don't mind dying. Each time a proto-stomper dies, the ISK that was spent on that suit is added to the end of match payout pool, redistributing the ISK that was spent. Each time a proto-stomper kills a BPO user, some free ISK is generated out of thin air, and injected into that same end of match payout pool. And thus we discover the real evil of "proto-stomping": These players who are going 20-0 against players in Militia BPO gear are receiving enormous amounts of free ISK that came from nowhere, while those players who are getting stomped are getting paid relatively little for their troubles. When the secondary market is introduced, these extremely rich proto-stompers are going to flood the market with their ready supply of ISK, causing prices to increase relative to their ability to spend. And what of the poor BPO-users? Well they're not making a whole lot of ISK to begin with, so all they'll see is a market full of things that are ridiculously over-priced and out of their reach... While BPO users may indeed have a valid point about not getting what they paid for, they don't seem to realise that what they paid for is a permanent and ongoing disadvantage against the "1%" of Dust players, and that continued BPO use is only going to continue widening the gap between the "haves" and the "have-nots". Don't believe me? Go watch CEO Pyrex's latest video (here), and listen to how he talks about the value of ISK and proto gear. No, he's not the cause of the problem. It's not his fault that BPO users are continually throwing free ISK at him... But it does illustrate the point. This is already happening, and it's only going to get worse when the secondary market comes in. we'll say 50% of the player still existing in the game have BPO's and there BPO's work in this fashion .Then I pose this question to you .....who will buy your stuff, and why would a potential new player buy your stuff that is militia equivalent when they have starter fits? it's a shame, this game really had potential


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