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Mia Romani
Nexus Marines
51
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Posted - 2013.11.24 00:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
So the discussion has been raging for weeks now, and so far the scope of the discussion has almost entirely been "I'm being ripped off!"... And yeah, maybe you are, maybe you aren't... But this thread is about something else.
Let me begin with the seemingly innocent root cause: Players who die while using BPO gear still generate full end-of-match ISK payouts each time they die.
No big deal, right? Well let's look at some of the other pieces in play here, and let's see if you too will share in my fridge horror moment:
- Players in full proto gear have better stats than players in full BPO gear.
- Players in full BPO gear are not punished for dying, and so are more likely to take risks.
So let's review here: Proto-stompers find it relatively easy to kill BPO-users, and BPO-users don't mind dying. Each time a proto-stomper dies, the ISK that was spent on that suit is added to the end of match payout pool, redistributing the ISK that was spent. Each time a proto-stomper kills a BPO user, some free ISK is generated out of thin air, and injected into that same end of match payout pool.
And thus we discover the real evil of "proto-stomping": These players who are going 20-0 against players in Militia BPO gear are receiving enormous amounts of free ISK that came from nowhere, while those players who are getting stomped are getting paid relatively little for their troubles.
When the secondary market is introduced, these extremely rich proto-stompers are going to flood the market with their ready supply of ISK, causing prices to increase relative to their ability to spend. And what of the poor BPO-users? Well they're not making a whole lot of ISK to begin with, so all they'll see is a market full of things that are ridiculously over-priced and out of their reach...
While BPO users may indeed have a valid point about not getting what they paid for, they don't seem to realise that what they paid for is a permanent and ongoing disadvantage against the "1%" of Dust players, and that continued BPO use is only going to continue widening the gap between the "haves" and the "have-nots".
Don't believe me? Go watch CEO Pyrex's latest video (here), and listen to how he talks about the value of ISK and proto gear. No, he's not the cause of the problem. It's not his fault that BPO users are continually throwing free ISK at him... But it does illustrate the point. This is already happening, and it's only going to get worse when the secondary market comes in.
Interstellar Crossroads
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Mia Romani
Nexus Marines
53
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Posted - 2013.11.24 02:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Upon learning this, our protagonist starts a one man picket line outside of swindle Mart and is quickly joined by others who had just so happened to sleep a little longer that day.
Mia Romani wrote:While BPO users may indeed have a valid point about not getting what they paid for, they don't seem to realise that what they paid for is a permanent and ongoing disadvantage against the "1%" of Dust players, and that continued BPO use is only going to continue widening the gap between the "haves" and the "have-nots".
The item you originally bought was in and of itself a crutch, one that is keeping you poor while making the proto-stompers richer. You're picketing for your right to continue being stomped by far richer players...
Interstellar Crossroads
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Mia Romani
Nexus Marines
53
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Posted - 2013.11.24 02:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
Arron Rift wrote:Personally, I think BPOs are the only things worth buying in this game. And if they take them all away I'm honestly not sure how CCP will make much money. And if CCP doesn't make much money, this game is shut down regardless of how fun it is...
...So I would say they are actually standing up for what's best for this game :D
Once you've bought a BPO, are you likely to buy another one?
MMO games that ask you to pay once only don't tend to survive very long. If a free to play game fails to generate at least $15 per player per month, then it should have used the subscription model instead...
Interstellar Crossroads
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Mia Romani
Nexus Marines
53
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Posted - 2013.11.24 02:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Mia Romani wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Upon learning this, our protagonist starts a one man picket line outside of swindle Mart and is quickly joined by others who had just so happened to sleep a little longer that day. Mia Romani wrote:While BPO users may indeed have a valid point about not getting what they paid for, they don't seem to realise that what they paid for is a permanent and ongoing disadvantage against the "1%" of Dust players, and that continued BPO use is only going to continue widening the gap between the "haves" and the "have-nots". The item you originally bought was in and of itself a crutch, one that is keeping you poor while making the proto-stompers richer. You're picketing for your right to continue being stomped by far richer players... Lolwut. No dude, I do just fine with my BPOs. If proto stomps are occurring it is very doubtful that it has anything to with my play style.
If you aren't dying, then why do you want BPO gear? It is categorically worse than proto gear in every way except cost.
Interstellar Crossroads
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Mia Romani
Nexus Marines
53
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Posted - 2013.11.24 02:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Please tell me how not restocking 5-10k ISK MLT/STD gear is gamebreaking when 90% of the playerbase has 20m-2B ISK in their wallet?
By the very least, make them BPCs
How do you think those players got so rich in the first place?
150 clones per match, 10k ISK per clone, that's 1.5 million ISK injected into the economy by every match.
ISK is coming into the economy, and it is not leaving. Of course wallets are going to get fat.
Interstellar Crossroads
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Mia Romani
Nexus Marines
53
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Posted - 2013.11.24 02:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Mia Romani wrote:Atiim wrote:Please tell me how not restocking 5-10k ISK MLT/STD gear is gamebreaking when 90% of the playerbase has 20m-2B ISK in their wallet?
By the very least, make them BPCs How do you think those players got so rich in the first place? 150 clones per match, 10k ISK per clone, that's 1.5 million ISK injected into the economy by every match. ISK is coming into the economy, and it is not leaving. Of course wallets are going to get fat. How idiotic are you? These people didn't get rich because of BPOs. They got rich from constantly playing in PC battles that have 1-5m ISK payouts. These players got rich from their corps who biomass the clones on their districts for ISK. I'd love to see someone die 150 times in a match. My 2 year old son can't even die 150 times! The worst he ever did was 0-35. And he can't even hold the joystick properly! If you manage to die 150 times in a single match then you need to stop playing DUST.
I could ask you the same question. Whether one person dies 150 times, or 15 people die 10 times each, it still adds up to 150 dead clones.
And yes, I'm not denying that PC is also a pretty big ISK faucet... But I ask you: How many PC matches happen each day? How many instant battles occur each day? How much do you think each one pays out in total, per day, to the entire player-base combined?
Interstellar Crossroads
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Mia Romani
Nexus Marines
53
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Posted - 2013.11.24 02:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
xLuca Brasi wrote:Mia Romani wrote:Atiim wrote:Mia Romani wrote:Atiim wrote:Please tell me how not restocking 5-10k ISK MLT/STD gear is gamebreaking when 90% of the playerbase has 20m-2B ISK in their wallet?
By the very least, make them BPCs How do you think those players got so rich in the first place? 150 clones per match, 10k ISK per clone, that's 1.5 million ISK injected into the economy by every match. ISK is coming into the economy, and it is not leaving. Of course wallets are going to get fat. How idiotic are you? These people didn't get rich because of BPOs. They got rich from constantly playing in PC battles that have 1-5m ISK payouts. These players got rich from their corps who biomass the clones on their districts for ISK. I'd love to see someone die 150 times in a match. My 2 year old son can't even die 150 times! The worst he ever did was 0-35. And he can't even hold the joystick properly! If you manage to die 150 times in a single match then you need to stop playing DUST. I could ask you the same question. Whether one person dies 150 times, or 15 people die 10 times each, it still adds up to 150 dead clones. And yes, I'm not denying that PC is also a pretty big ISK faucet... But I ask you: How many PC matches happen each day? How many instant battles occur each day? How much do you think each one pays out in total, per day, to the entire player-base combined? ummm.. you apparently don't understand PC... first lots of matches happen...all some do is PC... second, you don't even have to have a match to earn isk in PC.... 
Each district comes out of reinforcement once per day, generating an opportunity for a single match to occur that day. After an hour, the district goes back into reinforcement mode and everyone involved gets a fat paycheck.
Once per district per day, right? With 245 districts in Molden Heath, that puts a hard cap on this occuring at most 245 times per day.
Do you suppose there might be more than 245 instant battles per day?
Interstellar Crossroads
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Mia Romani
Nexus Marines
53
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Posted - 2013.11.24 03:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Your logic is shotty at best, as it assumes that all 15-16 people are running BPOs. It also assumes that every match is ended by a team depleting it's clone reserves
I don't know about Instant Matches, but as of right now 77 districts are under attack, and the biomass value of all clones currently in Molden Heath is about 9,445,920,000 ISK. While you will never make 9.4 Billion ISK in one day by running Instant Battles, you can deploy an infinite amount of times. So to the average player, Public Contracts are much more profitable.
Tell me, If BPOs are game-breaking, why shouldn't we take away the 4 BPOs that all players have?
Yes, I am over-simplifying things somewhat with my assumptions, though I think the sheer quantity of public contract matches that occur each day would be enough to far outweigh them.
We have what? An average of 2000-3000 players active at any given time? That's enough to fill 60-90 concurrent matches at any given time of the day. Let me make some more shoddy assumptions:
If each match lasted 30 minutes on average, we'd be seeing over 120-180 matches played per hour, or anywhere between and 2800 and 4300 matches per day.
If each match pays out 100k-200k ISK per player, then each match will pay out a total of 3.2 - 6.4 million ISK across all players.
Even taking the lowest figures, 3.2 million ISK per match, 2,800 matches per day, we're still looking at minimum 8,960,000,000 ISK paid out per day by public matches.
Even a handful of players are making a tidy profit from PC, and even if not all players are running BPO gear, it is still safe to safe that public contracts are injecting far more ISK into the economy than PC is... And if public contracts are not removing just as much ISK from the economy as they generate, then we are sitting on an ISK faucet.
Interstellar Crossroads
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Mia Romani
Nexus Marines
53
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Posted - 2013.11.24 03:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Atiim wrote:Tell me, If BPOs are game-breaking, why shouldn't we take away the 4 BPOs that all players have? Whether or not BPOs are game breaking is not the issue here.
It absolutely is the issue here: If they weren't breaking the game, CCP wouldn't be opposed to them and then we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
Interstellar Crossroads
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