DUST Search - 1.7 - The Two Things that Matter Most

Shotty GoBang wrote:

CAMille DANIELz wrote:

Shotguns - The close-quarters weapons of choice. I do think that it is BS that you have to have LW lv4 to even spec into, but otherwise this weapon is probably the best designed in Dust right now, outside of hit-box issues. Skilled into, however, at close range (0-30m) it is almost a point-and-win weapon. AND IT SHOULD BE.

Everything here is wrong. Everything.

- The close-quarters weapons of choice.
- The AR and ScR consistently outperform the Shotgun in close quarters. The only exception applies to those few low-HP targets the shotgun can OHK.

- This weapon is probably the best designed in Dust right now.
- The Shotgun routinely fails to "win" in its strictly limited niche. This is either a failure in design or balance.

- ...outside of hit-box issues
- Shotgun Hit Detection is as good as its ever been.

- At close range (0-30m) it is almost a point-and-win weapon.
- Outside of 5 meters the Shotgun deals scratch damage. Inside of 5 meters, 3+ blasts are required to drop a tanked MedFrame. The Shotgun is far from a point-and-win weapon. Point-and-win more aptly describes AR / ScR hipfire.

- AND IT SHOULD BE.
- I agree it should be. But it isn't, and it hasn't been since Chromosome. The AR and ScR dominate at close range ... not to mention every other range.

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Senator Snipe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 69	Posted - 2013.11.22 00:31:00 - [31] - Quote i agree shotty man. most of the fuckin game runs with them rifle spammers, Don't get me started on the Ancient Exile fags, all they do is w a nk on them things. The Deadliest forge gunner in Dust 514
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 168	Posted - 2013.11.22 00:36:00 - [32] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: I belive the alpha damage should be reduced on the TacScram. Two reasons: 1. Reducing it will encourage the use of the Charge Abilty 2. It will discourage people from spamming hip fire. Also, decrease the heat cost of the charged shots, and make the damage max of the charge shot higher, further encouraging the use of the charge. With TTK being so low we cant Have a Aplha damage reduction on the weapon. It usually takes the whole Heat bar to fill up just to take out a tankes Gal Logi,if you reduce the Damage , then i would get an Overheat while no even dropping a SINGLE armored tanked enemy. The Hip Fire Cross must be Severly increased , almost at SNiper level. Making ANYTHING but Aimed Shots to miss 5 out of 10 shots. I actually rarely used the SCR for CQ until lately,when i discoverd i could get a good amount of shots in whithout aiming at CQ. The SCR needs to be closer to the LASER RIFLE than an AR. This plaus the already MANY disadvantages the SCR has would leave it in a Balanced State. BUT THE ALPHA DAMAGE STAYS.
LUGMOS YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE 140	Posted - 2013.11.22 00:40:00 - [33] - Quote Seems ok. But I still want to encourage people to use the charge shots. Like I said before, decrease heat cost of the charge shot, and increase the charge max damage. The biggest threat to my scout is everything. My scout is the biggest threat to everything.
LUGMOS YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE 140	Posted - 2013.11.22 00:42:00 - [34] - Quote @Senator Snipe, Your sig speaks truth. I would like to see you off the comms array on the gallente map tho. The biggest threat to my scout is everything. My scout is the biggest threat to everything.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1243	Posted - 2013.11.22 00:43:00 - [35] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Shotty GoBang wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: What suit do you use? Scout Ohh lol another scout thinking he can go strait into the barrel of a gun and come out alive LOL Another scout who thinks he can do anything and come out alive Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
LUGMOS YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE 140	Posted - 2013.11.22 00:50:00 - [36] - Quote Lol Atiim. You are so productive. The biggest threat to my scout is everything. My scout is the biggest threat to everything.
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 168	Posted - 2013.11.22 00:51:00 - [37] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Seems ok. But I still want to encourage people to use the charge shots. Like I said before, decrease heat cost of the charge shot, and increase the charge max damage. People that dont use the charged shots Never win vs people using them thats enough incentive. My myself, i almost never get killed by SCR users, My SCR is by far better than the avarege player.This plus the fact i use the charged shot a LOT,nets me enough kills to mantain a decent K-D ratio while playing SOLO most of the time vs full corp squads.... The charged shot is already Pretty powerful and deserves the Heat penalty it has.
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 456	Posted - 2013.11.22 00:57:00 - [38] - Quote If you want to stop the spam you can also decrease the ROF (or make quick shots increase the heat buildup quicker) and then decrease the damage on AScRs and AR's TTK is only an issue on the Auto weapons And yes - SMG range needs to be reduced or the weapon has to lose sharpshooter. Sharpshooter shout probably be removed from the game. CCP who have issues balancing weapons have all sorts of hooks to make things worse for them: - Std to Proto increasing damage predominantly instead of just the other attributes to make weapons better - Proficiency increasing damage more - Damage mods and the ability to stack said multiple mods - Sharpshooter and rifle operation to negate the already minimal kick and dispersion of certain weapons.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1128	Posted - 2013.11.22 01:08:00 - [39] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: I'm thinking they are were what are going to be because the new rifles are balanced around the old rifles. I think our best bet is just going to be hope for cloaks as the equipment item and then depend on our suits precision/signature strength to prevail over other cloakers. You can't shoot what you can't see and you can't aim / shoot/ or take action until after a small decloaking period I disagree that you "can't shoot what you can't see". If my precision is high enough to detect your cloaked ass and I get within range, I should be able to fling death from my barrel and if you so happen to get hit, sucks to be you. I am not saying that it wouldn't amount to the epitome of pray and spray but you shouldn't be magically invulnerable just because you're cloaked. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 77	Posted - 2013.11.22 01:09:00 - [40] - Quote Well people used to only complain about ARs, now they complain about scrambler rifles too. I would call that progress! Now we just need to improve the other light weapons to the point where people complain about them too and I would call it balanced! Used well each weapon should be a devastating force; if I were fighting in the tunnels under the research lab a scrambler would die very often to mass drivers and ARs. Why? Because you are in close quarters where those weapons excel. Did the same user wipe all those people out when they go to assault an outside objective where he is waiting outside their optimal range with a charged shot. Yes, yes he did. Measure the balance of weapons in the tears of those they kill. Complain about how a mass driver killed you by raining rounds on you from above? Have issues with that scrambler rifle guy who killed you outside your ARs optimal range? Well done sirs, well done!

CAMille DANIELz planetary retaliation organisation 2	Posted - 2013.11.22 01:35:00 - [41] - Quote Much of the argument that AR's are over-powered is not exaggeration. I recently started using the GEK-38 and my K/D ratio has improved greatly. But there is another issue at the root of these complaints that Texas Red has unconciously touched on - Poeple need to understand the different roles weapons have and how they impact effectiveness in-game. Assualt Rifles - These are your well-rounded general infantry weapons. Designed to excell in combat at the close to medium range mark (roughly 30 - 100 meteres). AR's have low-medium damage per shot, but have a high rate of fire and are very accurate. If you do any reading in tactical magazines (ie Soldier of Fortune or Home Defense) you'll notice that most fire-fights take place at around 30 meters. This holds true in most FPS games, and Dust is no exception. It is easy to see why this weapon seems so over-powered. It is, in-fact, only doing what it is scientifically engineered to do well. The problem is that the maps on Dust have major choke-points at Control locations (A-E) that favor the use of AR's due to terrian and cover spacing. Shotguns - The close-quarters weapons of choice. I do think that it is BS that you have to have LW lv4 to even spec into, but otherwise this weapon is probably the best designed in Dust right now, outside of hit-box issues. Skilled into, however, at close range (0-30m) it is almost a point-and-win weapon. AND IT SHOULD BE. Scrambler Rifles - The Amarr answer to AR's. Scrambler rifles are heavy hitting carbines, with the ability to charge for extreme damage. This comes with a cost though, as the weapon can rapidly overheat and when it does it will explode and the burst can even kill the user. More importantly, if it does explode, you will be unable to shoot, change weapons or throw grenades until the weapon completely cools down. SCRs are designed like real-world carbines, as such they excel as a medium range weapon (50-100m) The following statement is true. The previous statement is false.
TEXA5 HiTM4N ROGUE SPADES EoN. 269	Posted - 2013.11.22 01:46:00 - [42] - Quote For me its 1. Balance everything. 2. never have less than 2 fps during a PC battle. these last battles ive been apart of have made me uninstall dust. Everything I say or do has the utmost importance.
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 2359	Posted - 2013.11.22 01:57:00 - [43] - Quote CAMille DANIELz wrote: Shotguns - The close-quarters weapons of choice. I do think that it is BS that you have to have LW lv4 to even spec into, but otherwise this weapon is probably the best designed in Dust right now, outside of hit-box issues. Skilled into, however, at close range (0-30m) it is almost a point-and-win weapon. AND IT SHOULD BE. Everything here is wrong. - The close-quarters weapons of choice. - The AR and ScR out-DPS the Shotgun in close quarters. - This weapon is probably the best designed in Dust right now. - This weapon does fails to excel in its strictly limited niche, which is either a failure in design or balance. - ...outside of hit-box issues - Shotgun Hit Detection is as good as its ever been. - At close range (0-30m) it is almost a ... a point-and-win weapon. - Beyond 5 or so meters the Shotgun deals minimal damage. Even in optimal range, tanked MedFrames require 3+ blasts. The Shotgun is far from a point-and-win weapon.
CAMille DANIELz planetary retaliation organisation 5	Posted - 2013.11.22 02:19:00 - [44] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: CAMille DANIELz wrote: Shotguns - The close-quarters weapons of choice. I do think that it is BS that you have to have LW lv4 to even spec into, but otherwise this weapon is probably the best designed in Dust right now, outside of hit-box issues. Skilled into, however, at close range (0-10m) it is almost a point-and-win weapon. AND IT SHOULD BE. Everything here is wrong. Everything. - The close-quarters weapons of choice. - The AR and ScR consistently outperform the Shotgun in close quarters. The only exception applies to those few low-HP targets the shotgun can OHK. - This weapon is probably the best designed in Dust right now. - The Shotgun routinely fails to "win" in its strictly limited niche. This is either a failure in design or balance. . Yes, I'll agree it should be better than it is. And I fixed the effective range, good call. The shotgun only fails becuase the AR is too powerful in close range battles, not becuase the shotgun itself is poorly designed. The following statement is true. The previous statement is false.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 981	Posted - 2013.11.22 02:22:00 - [45] - Quote TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR wrote: 3) Full Skill Respec. i have put hours into planning my new skill tree, and if that **** was for nothing, then i'm going to be beyond pissed. Lol. Didn't you see the dev post a while ago saying there will be no more respecs. I can't wait to hear your rage. Fun > Realism
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 171	Posted - 2013.11.22 02:30:00 - [46] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: CAMille DANIELz wrote: Shotguns - The close-quarters weapons of choice. I do think that it is BS that you have to have LW lv4 to even spec into, but otherwise this weapon is probably the best designed in Dust right now, outside of hit-box issues. Skilled into, however, at close range (0-30m) it is almost a point-and-win weapon. AND IT SHOULD BE. Everything here is wrong. Everything. - The close-quarters weapons of choice. - The AR and ScR consistently outperform the Shotgun in close quarters. The only exception applies to those few low-HP targets the shotgun can OHK. - This weapon is probably the best designed in Dust right now. - The Shotgun routinely fails to "win" in its strictly limited niche. This is either a failure in design or balance. - ...outside of hit-box issues - Shotgun Hit Detection is as good as its ever been. - At close range (0-30m) it is almost a point-and-win weapon. - Outside of 5 meters the Shotgun deals scratch damage. Inside of 5 meters, 3+ blasts are required to drop a tanked MedFrame. The Shotgun is far from a point-and-win weapon. Point-and-win more aptly describes AR / ScR hipfire. - AND IT SHOULD BE. - I agree it should be. But it isn't, and it hasn't been since Chromosome. The AR and ScR dominate at close range ... not to mention every other range. The Fact ARs and SCR win over shotgun are the following: -Bad hit detection makes shotgunners sometimes MISS full or partially a shot that should have been a score. Giving more chance for the enemy to react. This has happened to me several times while using my Breach Shotgun.Like shooting a Fast scout and only HALF of the shot registered for NO REASON AT ALL (i had it on him) and he survived even if he had a total of 300 HP. This is an ADV BREACH SG what im talking about,which should be a 1HKO on EVERYTHING 550HP or less.... -SHOTGUN LOW RoF plus the LOW damage they have.In other FPS, a shotgun at close range kills ANTHING in 1 or 2 shots. NEVER needing for a third one. In this game , a tanked Logi or even some assaults and heavies do not have any penalty for leaving the shotgunner get close since they can take up to 3-4 shotgun shots and have Higher RoF to eliminate the Thread that usually sacrifices EHP for speed -CCP Rewards Spray and pray. The Hip Fire CROSS Must be increased to greatly punish the user for NOT aiming. The SCR more than the AR thou. -Shotty G. B.= if you edit your post specifying the changes needed to the SCR (Hip Fire nerf) i'll like it. But as it is it seems you are really just looking for ANY type of nerf on the SCR and i cant support that.
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 2362	Posted - 2013.11.22 02:34:00 - [47] - Quote CAMille DANIELz wrote: Yes, I'll agree it should be better than it is. And I fixed the effective range, good call. The shotgun only fails becuase the AR is too powerful in close range battles, not becuase the shotgun itself is poorly designed. Agreed. Though we can't leave the ScR out of the equation. It over-performs from the hip just as severely as the AR.
Senator Snipe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 70	Posted - 2013.11.26 00:35:00 - [48] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: @Senator Snipe, Your sig speaks truth. I would like to see you off the comms array on the gallente map tho. what lol? The Deadliest forge gunner in Dust 514


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