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Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
240
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Posted - 2013.11.20 17:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
The respec for vehicle skills is Pandora's box.
I don't, of course, mind vehicle users getting their SP back to put into their tanks and dropships of choice after the radical changes. The problem is tankers putting their SP into infantry. A 10mil SP tanker will be able to create a better infantryman than a 15mil SP infantryman has. He gets a chance to drop his points after the new rifles are released. He will also know how all the other weapons and suits are balanced in December 2013, which no infantryman had the luxury of when they were allocating their SP. Every dedicated infantryman will have millions of SP tied up in weapons and suits that they no longer use (either due to personal preference or nerfs). Former pilots, on the other hand, will be able to build the best possible infantryman for their SP budget.
Now you might say 'no pilots will want to spec infantry', but I can show you a dozen threads with tankers saying they want a respec to go full infantry. Or you might say NO RESPECS EVAR, HTFU, Welcome to New Eden, live with your choices, etc. And normally I would agree. Look through my posts, before today you will find not one supporting a full respec. But the vehicle respec changes everything. Vehicle users will not have to live with their choices when 1.7 drops. They can be anything they want, regardless of what they chose. Furthermore, they can be build a character that's better at a role they didn't choose - infantry - than anyone who chose that role can. This is a major balance issue.
Now the respec box has been opened, the respec cannot be contained. |
xSivartx
Valor Tactical Operations Immortal Coalition of New-Eden
16
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Posted - 2013.11.20 18:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
Am I the only one that would spec into tanks if a respec would happen? I'd switch from my infantry role to a tank. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
1714
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 18:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Live with your choices he says
Big ******* problem is that my choices were made some time ago, now CCP has turned the vehicle tree upside down and it now looks completely different |
Awry Barux
Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire
363
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 18:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
xSivartx wrote:Am I the only one that would spec into tanks if a respec would happen? I'd switch from my infantry role to a tank.
Yeah I'd love to switch to vehicles, infantry is getting old! Obviously I wasn't going to go pre-1.7 vehicles because they were terrible, but now that they might be actually viable it sounds fun. Anyway +1 to the OP |
Eris Ernaga
State Patriots
724
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Posted - 2013.11.20 18:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:The respec for vehicle skills is Pandora's box.
I don't, of course, mind vehicle users getting their SP back to put into their tanks and dropships of choice after the radical changes. The problem is tankers putting their SP into infantry. A 10mil SP tanker will be able to create a better infantryman than a 15mil SP infantryman has. He gets a chance to drop his points after the new rifles are released. He will also know how all the other weapons and suits are balanced in December 2013, which no infantryman had the luxury of when they were allocating their SP. Every dedicated infantryman will have millions of SP tied up in weapons and suits that they no longer use (either due to personal preference or nerfs). Former pilots, on the other hand, will be able to build the best possible infantryman for their SP budget.
Now you might say 'no pilots will want to spec infantry', but I can show you a dozen threads with tankers saying they want a respec to go full infantry. Or you might say NO RESPECS EVAR, HTFU, Welcome to New Eden, live with your choices, etc. And normally I would agree. Look through my posts, before today you will find not one supporting a full respec. But the vehicle respec changes everything. Vehicle users will not have to live with their choices when 1.7 drops. They can be anything they want, regardless of what they chose. Furthermore, they can be build a character that's better at a role they didn't choose - infantry - than anyone who chose that role can. This is a major balance issue.
Now the respec box has been opened, the respec cannot be contained.
There is no point in this thread vehicles are being overhauled CCP didn't release a full respec for a reason it is more of a refund to be honest. Players who had skills in to vehicles will be able to spend them as they wish, that is all.
State Patriots a loyal Caldari based corporation is accepting all Caldari and Amarr to help fight on the front.
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Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division Top Men.
238
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Posted - 2013.11.20 18:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
I wish to switch from infantry to 14 mill tanker :D
-Newly proclaimed Lazor riffle specialist-
"You said yourself fantastically 'congratulations you are all alone.'"
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Rogue Saint
Science For Death The Shadow Eclipse
407
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Posted - 2013.11.20 18:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote: A 10mil SP tanker will be able to create a better infantryman than a 15mil SP infantryman has. He gets a chance to drop his points after the new rifles are released. He will also know how all the other weapons and suits are balanced in December 2013, which no infantryman had the luxury of when they were allocating their SP.
And this worries you because? You didn't know before hand so, now you do know, you want a respec?
What happens when more stuff is released? Demand another respec in 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8 years time??
Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Every dedicated infantryman will have millions of SP tied up in weapons and suits that they no longer use (either due to personal preference or nerfs). Former pilots, on the other hand, will be able to build the best possible infantryman for their SP budget.
Isn't that the whole point of the game? You sepc into suits/weapons and get proficient in all of them so you can CHOOSE which to use for the battle conditions? I guess you are one of those guys that just wants one weapon/suit forever.
Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Furthermore, they can be build a character that's better at a role they didn't choose - infantry - than anyone who chose that role can. This is a major balance issue.
There are not that many high SP tank characters, I could understand if 50% of the player base was, but their not, so balance isn't an issue. Even if it was, cool, less tanks on the field, more infantry to kill in their proto gear.
GôêGÆ+GÆ+GƦ
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SoTarian PoParrazi
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
308
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Posted - 2013.11.20 18:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
so.. the time of respec has come.. because your jealous tankers can get out of being tankers and into infantry?
o.0? You're just proving how little effect tankers are if your fearing them putting more SP into infantry.
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ - Let's make a contract!
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Pvt Numnutz
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
279
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Posted - 2013.11.20 18:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
Which is why CCP won't do a respect again. Which is why they said choose wisely after uprising. That was it, to avoid situations like this. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
2232
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 18:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Live with your choices he says
Big ******* problem is that my choices were made some time ago, now CCP has turned the vehicle tree upside down and it now looks completely different
Are they still tanks? Did you pick tanks? That's your choice.
No.
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Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder.
949
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 18:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:The respec for vehicle skills is Pandora's box.
I don't, of course, mind vehicle users getting their SP back to put into their tanks and dropships of choice after the radical changes. The problem is tankers putting their SP into infantry. A 10mil SP tanker will be able to create a better infantryman than a 15mil SP infantryman has. He gets a chance to drop his points after the new rifles are released. He will also know how all the other weapons and suits are balanced in December 2013, which no infantryman had the luxury of when they were allocating their SP. Every dedicated infantryman will have millions of SP tied up in weapons and suits that they no longer use (either due to personal preference or nerfs). Former pilots, on the other hand, will be able to build the best possible infantryman for their SP budget.
Now you might say 'no pilots will want to spec infantry', but I can show you a dozen threads with tankers saying they want a respec to go full infantry. Or you might say NO RESPECS EVAR, HTFU, Welcome to New Eden, live with your choices, etc. And normally I would agree. Look through my posts, before today you will find not one supporting a full respec. But the vehicle respec changes everything. Vehicle users will not have to live with their choices when 1.7 drops. They can be anything they want, regardless of what they chose. Furthermore, they can be build a character that's better at a role they didn't choose - infantry - than anyone who chose that role can. This is a major balance issue.
Now the respec box has been opened, the respec cannot be contained.
I say once newer games draw away the Dust 514 playerbase to under 3000 peak will force CCP into a more flexible stance.
Now back to Three Dog!! and Fallout 4 tidbits |
Zimander
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. Renegade Alliance
5
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Posted - 2013.11.20 18:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
Live with u F*****G choice They Nerf Guns u didn't here Infantry whining about re-space cuz the guns got NERF so shut up accept u decision in DUST |
Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder.
949
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 18:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:Which is why CCP won't do a respect again. Which is why they said choose wisely after uprising. That was it, to avoid situations like this.
Yeah ,sure choose wisely since we were told way in advance that in 1.7 lasers become useless...lol.
Lets see 7 or 8 more days until I get to play a good bunch of PS3 games that will use up my playtime.
Sorry Dust 514 you got a respec to the bench or the delete areas...lol. |
Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder.
949
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 18:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
Zimander wrote:Live with u F*****G choice They Nerf Guns u didn't here Infantry whining about re-space cuz the guns got NERF so shut up accept u decision in DUST
Hey another newberry........lol! Hey how about spellcheck??
Yeah thats working great going from 9220 to barely above 4000 peak on weekends.
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Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
246
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 18:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Zimander wrote:Live with u F*****G choice They Nerf Guns u didn't here Infantry whining about re-space cuz the guns got NERF so shut up accept u decision in DUST I think one or two people think I'm a pilot demanding my vehicle SP back . So just to be clear, CCP announced here that vehicle users will get their vehicle SP back. This thread is requesting that this be changed to a full respec for all characters. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
1716
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 18:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Live with your choices he says
Big ******* problem is that my choices were made some time ago, now CCP has turned the vehicle tree upside down and it now looks completely different Are they still tanks? Did you pick tanks? That's your choice.
I picked tanks and the skills i wanted for whatever reason i had at the time
Now i have new skills such as the CPU electronics skills which no longer adds 5% CPU per level and also i lose mods and vehicles to boot
I am a pilot, i skilled into all vehicles, no im losing 6 vehicles, 8 including the surya/sagaris
Its like taking your infantry tree and then turning it upside down while making it a bigger SP sink, take your favourite suit now lets replace the skill bonus it gets per level with something useless like 'once you take over 50% damage you will randomly blow up in 10seconds' and this increases by 10% per level so you will blow up in 5seconds at level 5 and then make it a x16 SP multiplier
Now you will die alot more, your KDR will plummet and you will be useless on the battlefield, would you like a respec? |
Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder.
949
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 19:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Live with your choices he says
Big ******* problem is that my choices were made some time ago, now CCP has turned the vehicle tree upside down and it now looks completely different Are they still tanks? Did you pick tanks? That's your choice. I picked tanks and the skills i wanted for whatever reason i had at the time Now i have new skills such as the CPU electronics skills which no longer adds 5% CPU per level and also i lose mods and vehicles to boot I am a pilot, i skilled into all vehicles, no im losing 6 vehicles, 8 including the surya/sagaris Its like taking your infantry tree and then turning it upside down while making it a bigger SP sink, take your favourite suit now lets replace the skill bonus it gets per level with something useless like 'once you take over 50% damage you will randomly blow up in 10seconds' and this increases by 10% per level so you will blow up in 5seconds at level 5 and then make it a x16 SP multiplier Now you will die alot more, your KDR will plummet and you will be useless on the battlefield, would you like a respec?
I want a rewind to when Dust 514 was not a AR twitch shooter. To when choosing a niche weapon was not a waste of time.
But for real in a few days Dust 514 will hardly get any playtime in my PS3 system and zero on a PS4 so I no longer care.
Later. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
2233
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 19:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Live with your choices he says
Big ******* problem is that my choices were made some time ago, now CCP has turned the vehicle tree upside down and it now looks completely different Are they still tanks? Did you pick tanks? That's your choice. I picked tanks and the skills i wanted for whatever reason i had at the time Now i have new skills such as the CPU electronics skills which no longer adds 5% CPU per level and also i lose mods and vehicles to boot I am a pilot, i skilled into all vehicles, no im losing 6 vehicles, 8 including the surya/sagaris Its like taking your infantry tree and then turning it upside down while making it a bigger SP sink, take your favourite suit now lets replace the skill bonus it gets per level with something useless like 'once you take over 50% damage you will randomly blow up in 10seconds' and this increases by 10% per level so you will blow up in 5seconds at level 5 and then make it a x16 SP multiplier Now you will die alot more, your KDR will plummet and you will be useless on the battlefield, would you like a respec?
It isn't being turned upside down, stop trying to blow it out of proportion.
You picked a role, and you still have it. HTFU.
You don't hear scouts asking for respecs, you hear them asking for balances & new content. The fact that some tankers don't do the same says to me that they really just wanted to roll about the battlefield with impunity.
No.
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Izlare Lenix
FREE AGENTS LP
13
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 19:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
CCP should have never caved into the first wave of "I want a respec." Now whenever something goes from strong to weak the whiners will want "just one more respec."
Respecs are a terrible idea. Once you spend SP it is gone. You train it you bought it, sorry no refund. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
7848
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 19:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
Izlare Lenix wrote:CCP should have never caved into the first wave of "I want a respec." Now whenever something goes from strong to weak the whiners will want "just one more respec."
Respecs are a terrible idea. Once you spend SP it is gone. You train it you bought it, sorry no refund. Yea, how dare I train shield extenders, boosters, and missiles to make my Incubus work, only to have that entire fit rendered completely obsolete
HTFUUUUU!!!!!!!
Read / Vid / Stream
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Onesimus Tarsus
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
684
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Posted - 2013.11.20 19:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
Any time people ask me why I want a respec, I'll just say, "My points should reflect my ever-evolving playstyle."
Seriously, why should anyone care where anyone else's SP is?
" 'Full respecs' , because it just doesn't matter yet." (tm) |
pdiddy anfama
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
78
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Posted - 2013.11.20 20:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:The respec for vehicle skills is Pandora's box.
I don't, of course, mind vehicle users getting their SP back to put into their tanks and dropships of choice after the radical changes. The problem is tankers putting their SP into infantry. A 10mil SP tanker will be able to create a better infantryman than a 15mil SP infantryman has. He gets a chance to drop his points after the new rifles are released. He will also know how all the other weapons and suits are balanced in December 2013, which no infantryman had the luxury of when they were allocating their SP. Every dedicated infantryman will have millions of SP tied up in weapons and suits that they no longer use (either due to personal preference or nerfs). Former pilots, on the other hand, will be able to build the best possible infantryman for their SP budget.
Now you might say 'no pilots will want to spec infantry', but I can show you a dozen threads with tankers saying they want a respec to go full infantry. Or you might say NO RESPECS EVAR, HTFU, Welcome to New Eden, live with your choices, etc. And normally I would agree. Look through my posts, before today you will find not one supporting a full respec. But the vehicle respec changes everything. Vehicle users will not have to live with their choices when 1.7 drops. They can be anything they want, regardless of what they chose. Furthermore, they can be build a character that's better at a role they didn't choose - infantry - than anyone who chose that role can. This is a major balance issue.
Now the respec box has been opened, the respec cannot be contained.
Finally someone else talking sense. |
Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
253
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 20:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
Rogue Saint wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote: A 10mil SP tanker will be able to create a better infantryman than a 15mil SP infantryman has. He gets a chance to drop his points after the new rifles are released. He will also know how all the other weapons and suits are balanced in December 2013, which no infantryman had the luxury of when they were allocating their SP. [1] And this worries you because? You didn't know before hand so, now you do know, you want a respec? [2] What happens when more stuff is released? Demand another respec in 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8 years time?? Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Every dedicated infantryman will have millions of SP tied up in weapons and suits that they no longer use (either due to personal preference or nerfs). Former pilots, on the other hand, will be able to build the best possible infantryman for their SP budget. [3] Isn't that the whole point of the game? You sepc into suits/weapons and get proficient in all of them so you can CHOOSE which to use for the battle conditions? I guess you are one of those guys that just wants one weapon/suit forever. Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Furthermore, they can be build a character that's better at a role they didn't choose - infantry - than anyone who chose that role can. This is a major balance issue. [4]There are not that many high SP tank characters, I could understand if 50% of the player base was, but their not, so balance isn't an issue. Even if it was, cool, less tanks on the field, more infantry to kill in their proto gear. 1. If part of the playerbase gets to allocate their SP with knowledge of the current balance of suits and weapons, it's only fair that the whole playerbase does.
2. I didn't announce the respec, CCP did. I'm just saying it should apply to the whole playerbase. If CCP announce another 10mil+ respec then, yes, that should also be for everybody. I doubt this will happen often though.
3. I have HMG, FG and AR all up to at least prof. 3, and proto heavy and medium suits. So no, I can appreciate diversity. My point is that a tanker with a respec will even do better at diversity, because he gets to choose the best weapon and suit in each class at current stats. For instance, if rail rifle dominates as many suspect it will, he can dump his points into RR+gallente logi, the optimum fit under those conditions (plus HMG, FG and heavy suit for lols). Infantry never got to make that choice.
4. So if its only a minority of the playerbase that get an unfair advantage that's okay? Would you be happy if CCP said they'd decided to give a respec to Caldari characters only? The point is it upsets balance for no good reason, because the option of a universal respec is there. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
1726
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 12:27:00 -
[24] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Live with your choices he says
Big ******* problem is that my choices were made some time ago, now CCP has turned the vehicle tree upside down and it now looks completely different Are they still tanks? Did you pick tanks? That's your choice. I picked tanks and the skills i wanted for whatever reason i had at the time Now i have new skills such as the CPU electronics skills which no longer adds 5% CPU per level and also i lose mods and vehicles to boot I am a pilot, i skilled into all vehicles, no im losing 6 vehicles, 8 including the surya/sagaris Its like taking your infantry tree and then turning it upside down while making it a bigger SP sink, take your favourite suit now lets replace the skill bonus it gets per level with something useless like 'once you take over 50% damage you will randomly blow up in 10seconds' and this increases by 10% per level so you will blow up in 5seconds at level 5 and then make it a x16 SP multiplier Now you will die alot more, your KDR will plummet and you will be useless on the battlefield, would you like a respec? It isn't being turned upside down, stop trying to blow it out of proportion. You picked a role, and you still have it. HTFU. You don't hear scouts asking for respecs, you hear them asking for balances & new content. The fact that some tankers don't do the same says to me that they really just wanted to roll about the battlefield with impunity.
The vehicles have changed
The mods have changed
Some mods have been removed
The skills are being changed and also removed
We have now lost 8vehicles in total
How is it not being completely changed? |
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder.
848
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 12:42:00 -
[25] - Quote
For some reason, I think I would prefer a full reset rather than a respec. I don't know why, but a reset just sounds appealing to me right now. It would be a fresh new start for the game.
[+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94]
Burner of faces.
The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
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Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1299
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 13:21:00 -
[26] - Quote
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1517540#post1517540
CCP has two options:
1. Only allow refunded SP to be put back into vehicles, so that vehicle pilots' choices have consequences. By not doing this will allow vehicle pilots to do whatever they want with their SP like putting all/most of their SP into infantry and their choices wouldn't have consequences, while everyone else's choices have consequences. I assume it would likely be impossible for CCP to do this, so that brings me to the other option.
2. Give everyone a full respec. This is by far the most fair solution. If they don't give everyone a full respec CCP is playing favorites by giving vehicle pilots an unfair advantage.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
243
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Posted - 2013.11.21 14:00:00 -
[27] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:Which is why CCP won't do a respect again. Which is why they said choose wisely after uprising. That was it, to avoid situations like this.
Choose wisely is nice as long as your decision is persistent. You could make the wisest decision in the world but that won't help you If some changes the reason for that decision.
CCP should give partial SP refunds when they drastically change what you spend your SP for. I don't mind a rebalance so lets say skill y grant 5% to "x", a change to 2% would be ok. But if that skill all of sudden gives 5% to "a" instead of "x" this is no longer the skill I choosed to spec into....and CCP should be be fair enough to refund the SP |
Sigberct Amni
Goonfeet Top Men.
209
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Posted - 2013.11.21 14:43:00 -
[28] - Quote
It's frustrating to know that vehicle users will be able to once again coast into the next flavor of the month. The only fair option is to force vehicle SP to remain in vehicles. That won't happen because it's a nightmare logistically.
The less appealing option is to give everyone a full respec. Alternatively, you could stop designing trap content that is essentially a skill point loss for players who unknowingly spend into it. Dropsuit command V? How about not nerfing things into uselessness?
Hey guys come play our game! You can wait or grind for normal progression or you can pay money for faster progression! Things will change every three months. We don't know what will change but you will be stuck with your progression into now broken/worthless things. Sometimes we will allow some subsets of players to spec into the latest FOTM, but not all. HTFUWELCOMETONEWEDENLOL. Man, I really want to play this game! |
Slag Emberforge
Immortal Retribution
136
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Posted - 2013.11.21 15:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
Zimander wrote:Live with u F*****G choice They Nerf Guns u didn't here Infantry whining about re-space cuz the guns got NERF so shut up accept u decision in DUST
That wasn't even a crude facsimile of English. And you couldn't be more wrong, I have seen no end to the amount of complaints of players wanting their SP back after a weapon is nerfed, laser rifle, HMG, Flaylock, any of these ring a bell? |
Roger Cordill
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
21
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Posted - 2013.11.21 15:35:00 -
[30] - Quote
No. I'll accept one only when it makes sense (frames/hulls that should've been in day one, or massive change to the item itself, and the skills that go along with it). The entire vehicle tree, as well as every aspect of vehicles is getting changed. Get over it, you're not getting one. |
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