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Reduce 1.7 vehicle SP sink!

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Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 60	Posted - 2013.11.20 00:25:00 - [1] - Quote CCP needs to lower the SP cost for the proposed vehicle changes in 1.7, as it stands right now vehicles in general with be massive SP sinks that offer very limited diversity of game play. Here is the 1.7 infantry vs vehicle math for you. Gallente Logi with max skills Core: 7,773,000 (Armor plate/repair/upgrades, electronics/engineering) Suit: 2,785,830 Weapon: 8,083,920 (Light weapon, handheld up, AR Op/Pro/Ammo/Reload/Sharpshooter/Fitting) Equipment: 3,731,040 (uplinks, nanotech, active scanner, repair tool) Total: 22,373,790 SP Here you have a wide diversity of play available and ammo is little concern because nanohives and supply depots both give ammo. Also the supply depot is large enough it provides cover while changing fittings and/or resupplying. If you want to change up your play style you can easily skill into different weapons. Gallente Incubus with max skills Core: 9,327,600 (Armor Up/Comp/Repair/Fitting, vehicle core/electronics/engineering, Engine Core/Grid Manage) Turret: 10,571,280 (Small Op, railgun op/ammo/reload/pro/fitting/heat dissipation, turret upgrades, damage amp fitting) Assault Dropship: 5,907,480 (Vehicle command, dropship op/assault/gallente assault) Total: 25,806,360 SP Here my play style is extremely limited as I only have 1 option, attack from above and using different turrets provides little difference (against good AV blasters are useless and missiles are good, railguns are supposed to be good vs vehicles in 1.7 but we will see). Also my ISK cost is likely that of a proto suit x2 or x3 depending on my fitting. CCP, this a an unreasonable SP cost for vehicles. On some maps a single forge gunner can deny me the entire map, thus preventing from playing. My 26M SP is now worthless. An infantry suit is far more adaptive and flexible both with weapons and function, the gallente logi suit can earn WP by scanning, repping, reviving, and putting down uplinks as well as killing other players with a multitude of different weapons. In my assault dropship I have only one real method of earning WP (killing) and I can easily shut out of a match be a few dedicated AV players. A single forge gunner on Line Harvest on the table top in the middle can cover every meaningful point on the map for an dropship. The dropship is a niche weapon, like the laser rifle. It is not good in all cases and therefore you want other options incase using it on a certain map is not a good idea. Having it cost this much SP with zero flexibility is like have a dedicated sniper with 26M SP and can do nothing else other than snipe.
BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Murder Cakes Of Doom 1190	Posted - 2013.11.20 00:30:00 - [2] - Quote i'm hoping for full respec so i can put all points into it, but i doubt it and i will prob only get 10 mil sp if they do vehicle only. which makes me sad. :( Tank driver. 10 mil SP in tanks 8 mil into infantry. Msg my main BobThe843CakeMan I ring for everyone. :D
Nguruthos IX PEN 15 CLUB 2254	Posted - 2013.11.20 01:10:00 - [3] - Quote jesus christ that is ridiculous. Thank god there's better games coming out. Hidden vehicle nerfs in the numbers, SP costs like those are ****ing insane. and you get less for it less slots less variety less options out of everything.
Vell0cet Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 567	Posted - 2013.11.20 01:22:00 - [4] - Quote The SP sinks make sense to me. This game is designed to be around for many years. At the current pace, people would exhaust their options too quickly. The idea is that you can't ever have everything (by design). Completely maxing out the vehicle tree should take years of SP. Look at EVE, the system works well. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
Patrick57 GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 1561	Posted - 2013.11.20 01:40:00 - [5] - Quote Who uses small railguns? Lol ö/\ö :D
Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 691	Posted - 2013.11.20 01:43:00 - [6] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: The SP sinks make sense to me. This game is designed to be around for many years. At the current pace, people would exhaust their options too quickly. The idea is that you can't ever have everything (by design). Completely maxing out the vehicle tree should take years of SP. Look at EVE, the system works well. in eve there are multiple ways to play a given ship. in this there is "kill things or do literally nothing else because killing is all you will ever get points for." the SP sink would be worth it if vehicles were killing machines, or if there were secondary things you could do to earn WP. but right now, you can only kill(or drop off people to kill other people, only if you're a dropship). and vehicles are inferior for that purpose in 1.7. -overall, weaker vehicles. -limited ammo -can only restock ammo at specific points on map(good luck after the first 5 minutes of the game) or by recalling the vehicle -having a team is actually a negative for a vehicle player. If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1867	Posted - 2013.11.20 01:55:00 - [7] - Quote Why does everyone think they need every skill maxed to perform in a role. That last skill level costs as much as the first 4 put together. Unless they unlock something best to stop at 3 or 4 and spend those SP on providing yourself a new capability. For 20 mil SP you could have a very strong Infantry suit and vehicle. // Logistics / Scout / Dropship Pilot // https://twitter.com/reesnoturana
Harpyja Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 788	Posted - 2013.11.20 02:20:00 - [8] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Who uses small railguns? Lol They might actually become viable with the recent changes "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 892	Posted - 2013.11.20 02:29:00 - [9] - Quote What a laugh. EVE required 9 years* to max out. That is the basic thinking from CCP/Mothership. Get used to it. It is stupid, short sided and detracts from this FPS game for many but it is their way and thus must be the only way. For DUST the plan was seven years. You need to align with the concept of never having enough, always coming against opponents that have double your SP and gear that will crush you like a grape. A rational discussion is not the CCP way, HTFU or die. That is the CCP way. Welcome to DUST. * Recently I was informed that the EVE time required has doubled (although I was unable to find it quickly, your mileage may vary).
CharCharOdell 1585	Posted - 2013.11.20 04:28:00 - [10] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: The SP sinks make sense to me. This game is designed to be around for many years. At the current pace, people would exhaust their options too quickly. The idea is that you can't ever have everything (by design). Completely maxing out the vehicle tree should take years of SP. Look at EVE, the system works well. that is the stupidest thing i've ever heard. they should expand the tree horizontally, not vertically. Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition

CharCharOdell 1585	Posted - 2013.11.20 04:30:00 - [11] - Quote ***, i want a respec. everything is a goddamn SP sink for vehicles when our entire playstyle is denied by one forge gun. it shouldn't take more than 15 to max a tank with 1 turret type. Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition*
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10415	Posted - 2013.11.20 04:35:00 - [12] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: What a laugh. EVE required 9 years* to max out. That is the basic thinking from CCP/Mothership. Get used to it. It is stupid, short sided and detracts from this FPS game for many but it is their way and thus must be the only way. For DUST the plan was seven years. You need to align with the concept of never having enough, always coming against opponents that have double your SP and gear that will crush you like a grape. A rational discussion is not the CCP way, HTFU or die. That is the CCP way. Welcome to DUST. * Recently I was informed that the EVE time required has doubled (although I was unable to find it quickly, your mileage may vary). Actually its 27 years now with min/max attribute plans with +5 implants which work out as oh to say buying omega boosters all the time equivalently. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 100	Posted - 2013.11.20 04:40:00 - [13] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: ****, i want a respec. everything is a goddamn SP sink for vehicles when our entire playstyle is denied by one forge gun. it shouldn't take more than 15 to max a tank with 1 turret type. i only have 11.2 mil sp, needless to say i might go infantry more cuz 10 mil to get std turret with std modules recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 63	Posted - 2013.11.20 04:43:00 - [14] - Quote I don't really care about it taking a long time to max out everything but there should be enough niches that a person can quickly and effectively fill a few roles. CCP should be focusing on creating new roles for us to skill into, not turning the already limited (and barely effective) vehicle roles into massive SP sinks. We need new content, not more skill intensive content that offers very little over what it's supposed to be better than.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 998	Posted - 2013.11.20 04:50:00 - [15] - Quote You have to think of it as an investment however. The Vehicle itself is actually not THAT bad of an SP sink, its the defensive skills. However, since those defensive skills will be applied to all vehicle releases in the future, most of the SP cost is upfront. While this is painful at first, it actually makes things much better in long run. ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 65	Posted - 2013.11.20 05:09:00 - [16] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: You have to think of it as an investment however. The Vehicle itself is actually not THAT bad of an SP sink, its the defensive skills. However, since those defensive skills will be applied to all vehicle releases in the future, most of the SP cost is upfront. While this is painful at first, it actually makes things much better in long run. Vehicle core skills are 1.5M SP more than infantry, weapons 2.5M, and specific roles almost 3M. That means it takes me darn near 4 months more to max something out compared to infantry. Then it takes one guy with a forge gun on line harvest to render me completely useless and unable to compete. Vehicles need to be either a low investment niche weapon or a high investment play style that offers several ways to enjoy the game. Right now it's a high investment niche weapon. It's like putting 26M SP into laser rifles then getting stuck on the research lab map fighting underground, you are a determent to the team that is worse than useless.
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2905	Posted - 2013.11.20 05:18:00 - [17] - Quote This game needs more SP sinks. I have a fully maxed out Gallente Assault with all passive skills maxed out and PG/CPU expanded and reduced from equipment skills maxed out at 5. All I need now is a Gallente Sidearm Pistol and I'll be maxed out. Edit: You know what, I need something to go in my Highslot CCP. I'm a player with 30 mil SP, it's getting pretty boring.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 102	Posted - 2013.11.20 05:20:00 - [18] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: This game needs more SP sinks. I have a fully maxed out Gallente Assault with all passive skills maxed out and PG/CPU expanded and reduced from equipment skills maxed out at 5. All I need now is a Gallente Sidearm Pistol and I'll be maxed out. Edit: You know what, I need something to go in my Highslot CCP. I'm a player with 30 mil SP, it's getting pretty boring. not eveyone can get 30 mil sp in year recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2434	Posted - 2013.11.20 05:21:00 - [19] - Quote Vehicles appear headed for an endgame role after you attain one or two infantry roles. Unless they become very inexpensive and more maps open up you won't be able to sustain piloting financially at the start of your career. You will definitely need to start with boots on the ground.
Asirius Medaius 662	Posted - 2013.11.20 05:23:00 - [20] - Quote Texs Red wrote: I don't really care about it taking a long time to max out everything but there should be enough niches that a person can quickly and effectively fill a few roles. CCP should be focusing on creating new roles for us to skill into, not turning the already limited (and barely effective) vehicle roles into massive SP sinks. We need new content, not more skill intensive content that offers very little over what it's supposed to be better than. By EVE comparison, it would be like it taking a full year to max out a single T2 frigate from a single race with a T2 fit and skilling into nothing else. Then making the only form of game play null sec PvP and your SP gain is halved if you don't play at least 8 hours a week. It would make for a rather miserable year wouldn't it? As vehicles stand in 1.7 it will ruin vehicle game play for starting players who want to get into vehicles. CharCharODell wrote: that is the stupidest thing i've ever heard. they should expand the tree horizontally, not vertically. I completely agree with you guys; It is pissing me off that CCP is re-releasing SP trees with more and more investments in SP required to play the same exact damn roles that we could do before the "update". As someone in here said earlier, I am glad that more options of games are available, and I am furthermore glad about the next shipment of PS4s. I am getting tired of these subtle, yet annoying greedy changes to the game without any real addition of content. "Revamped" SP trees for vehicles with no new vehicles coming out in 1.7? This is getting very old, CCP, and this is coming from someone who actually plays and enjoys EVE Online (for the greater part of 6 years). What is this developer team doing? Signature coming soonGäó. [Level 9 Forum Warrior]

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 999	Posted - 2013.11.20 05:25:00 - [21] - Quote Texs Red wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: You have to think of it as an investment however. The Vehicle itself is actually not THAT bad of an SP sink, its the defensive skills. However, since those defensive skills will be applied to all vehicle releases in the future, most of the SP cost is upfront. While this is painful at first, it actually makes things much better in long run. Vehicle core skills are 1.5M SP more than infantry, weapons 2.5M, and specific roles almost 3M. That means it takes me darn near 4 months more to max something out compared to infantry. Then it takes one guy with a forge gun on line harvest to render me completely useless and unable to compete. Vehicles need to be either a low investment niche weapon or a high investment play style that offers several ways to enjoy the game. Right now it's a high investment niche weapon. It's like putting 26M SP into laser rifles then getting stuck on the research lab map fighting underground, you are a determent to the team that is worse than useless. Well I fully agree that the difference in investment between AV and vehicles is problematic, but I also feel that vehicles should be as intensive as a role as the benefit provides. We need more benefit which is why the vehicle issue needs to be better balanced, but I still feel the SP sink is appropriate. On top of that much of the defenses available for 1.7 vehicles offer the same benefit at level 3 as they do 5, but with more downtime. For example Enhanced Armor Hardeners require level 3 and 2 of them can be cycled for about 90% uptime, where the much more SP expensive level 5 skill gives 100% uptime. Both hardeners reduce the same amount of damage though, so while its not completely optimized, 90% uptime is very viable for much less of an investment. That being said you can still put together a respectable defense for less SP. As in EVE, level 5 is often left untrained initially unless it offers an immediate unlock because the SP cost doubles when training from 1-5 instead of 1-4. Level 5 is generally saved for optimization. So while level 5 does unlock new modules, you can get nearly the same benefit with only level 3 or 4. This effectively cuts the SP cost in half without cutting the benefit in half. ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 102	Posted - 2013.11.20 05:27:00 - [22] - Quote Skihids wrote: Vehicles appear headed for an endgame role after you attain one or two infantry roles. Unless they become very inexpensive and more maps open up you won't be able to sustain piloting financially at the start of your career. You will definitely need to start with boots on the ground. i have many roles but the sp sink in too deep recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Mr m4gic Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 18	Posted - 2013.11.20 05:27:00 - [23] - Quote can somebody pls tell me how I remove messages ive posted on ere
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2905	Posted - 2013.11.20 05:27:00 - [24] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: This game needs more SP sinks. I have a fully maxed out Gallente Assault with all passive skills maxed out and PG/CPU expanded and reduced from equipment skills maxed out at 5. All I need now is a Gallente Sidearm Pistol and I'll be maxed out. Edit: You know what, I need something to go in my Highslot CCP. I'm a player with 30 mil SP, it's getting pretty boring. not eveyone can get 30 mil sp in year That's not the point, The point I failed to get across is that this game needs more content but more content requires more SP sinks. and while vehicles should have a little bit more SP to be invested in them they shouldn't be paper thin and worthless like they are now. Hopefully that changes in 1.7
Nguruthos IX PEN 15 CLUB 2255	Posted - 2013.11.20 05:28:00 - [25] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: ****, i want a respec. everything is a goddamn SP sink for vehicles when our entire playstyle is denied by one forge gun. it shouldn't take more than 15 to max a tank with 1 turret type. This How much SP is it to nullify 30 million SP in vehicles (DS) and millions of ISK? 400k SP and a 10k forge gun? get outta here, what a joke. edit: not even, a bloody militia does the trick. who can defend this desperate attempt to increase playtime sans adding actual content?
Nguruthos IX PEN 15 CLUB 2256	Posted - 2013.11.20 05:31:00 - [26] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: This game needs more SP sinks. I have a fully maxed out Gallente Assault with all passive skills maxed out and PG/CPU expanded and reduced from equipment skills maxed out at 5. All I need now is a Gallente Sidearm Pistol and I'll be maxed out. Edit: You know what, I need something to go in my Highslot CCP. I'm a player with 30 mil SP, it's getting pretty boring. not eveyone can get 30 mil sp in year That's not the point, The point I failed to get across is that this game needs more content but more content requires more SP sinks. and while vehicles should have a little bit more SP to be invested in them they shouldn't be paper thin and worthless like they are now. Hopefully that changes in 1.7 You can see how, as they may add horizontally to the vehicle tree a year from now, the scaling of SP costs will be astronomical. To the point where Ill never tell anyone to try playing this game. It's already free, and already has less than 4k players. I think they should be concerned if this becomes a more prevalent opinion. Their potential player base is millions and millions of PS3s And nobody cares Why? This is why. Soon vets will leave and Dust will have nothing. What a bloody joke.
Nguruthos IX PEN 15 CLUB 2256	Posted - 2013.11.20 05:32:00 - [27] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Skihids wrote: Vehicles appear headed for an endgame role after you attain one or two infantry roles. Unless they become very inexpensive and more maps open up you won't be able to sustain piloting financially at the start of your career. You will definitely need to start with boots on the ground. i have many roles but the sp sink in too deep already ISK unsustainable. Ammo, requires supply depots, requires Skirm (no Ambush) = GG MCC missiles and 20 minutes games for 100k isk. good bye ds sustainability Red line rail tanks only way to go now. Disgusting.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 102	Posted - 2013.11.20 05:32:00 - [28] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: This game needs more SP sinks. I have a fully maxed out Gallente Assault with all passive skills maxed out and PG/CPU expanded and reduced from equipment skills maxed out at 5. All I need now is a Gallente Sidearm Pistol and I'll be maxed out. Edit: You know what, I need something to go in my Highslot CCP. I'm a player with 30 mil SP, it's getting pretty boring. not eveyone can get 30 mil sp in year That's not the point, The point I failed to get across is that this game needs more content but more content requires more SP sinks. and while vehicles should have a little bit more SP to be invested in them they shouldn't be paper thin and worthless like they are now. Hopefully that changes in 1.7 "is that this game needs more content but more content requires more SP sinks." no, this game needs more content not sp sinks, btw if you play for sp, then you can geet out(redneck voice)+not everyone no life's dust. recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2905	Posted - 2013.11.20 05:38:00 - [29] - Quote Nguruthos IX wrote: edit: not even, a bloody militia does the trick. who can defend this desperate attempt to increase playtime sans adding actual content? Pretty much all you need is a proto forge gun, militia suit and maybe one or two damage mods (forget other modules and a sidearm, this suit is made just to blow up vehicles) that will cost you around 800k SP and less than 100k ISK to blow up a 22 mil SP Vehicle that cost 900k ISK. Makes perfect sense CCP. ....although....If they are actually trying to make this like a realistic shooter then having a cheap item able to blow up extremely high priced vehicles does fit in, but that's only if you were allowed to be restricted to one suit per match instead of having all of your fittings at your disposal at the time. BUT we all know this is not, nor ever will be the case so I digress.
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2906	Posted - 2013.11.20 05:40:00 - [30] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: no, this game needs more content not sp sinks, btw if you play for sp, then you can geet out(redneck voice)+not everyone no life's dust. lol you lost all credibility and respect from that one comment. Just another 15 year old child on the forums, move along.

RedZer0 MK1 The Generals EoN. 105	Posted - 2013.11.20 06:31:00 - [31] - Quote SP sinks are truly hurting the game, not just vehicles. If the game is good, people will play. There is no need to artificially inflate play time. Dust doesn't need the fluff.
dogmanpig black market bank 49	Posted - 2013.11.20 06:37:00 - [32] - Quote RedZer0 MK1 wrote: SP sinks are truly hurting the game, not just vehicles. If the game is good, people will play. There is no need to artificially inflate play time. Dust doesn't need the fluff. MMO tactic.... its not an FPS tactic to keep players... thats why it feels out of place. dust is mostly just a lobby FPS and not a MMO but has MMO stapled on the side. its missing the first M in MMO You hate me, I hate you. Lets keep it that way. Level 7 1/3 Forum alt. "Its worth half a penny and a reach around"
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 103	Posted - 2013.11.20 06:39:00 - [33] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: no, this game needs more content not sp sinks, btw if you play for sp, then you can geet out(redneck voice)+not everyone no life's dust. lol you lost all credibility and respect from that one comment. Just another 15 year old child on the forums, move along. just another 13 year old against respecs/protostomps, move along. im 17 and was trying to be funny recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 912	Posted - 2013.11.20 06:56:00 - [34] - Quote I love this post, you do realize it takes half as much SP to take everything to level 4? This idea that everything has to be maxed in order to be usable is ridiculous. The Ellecon's come from a long line of Gallente. Tarn chose Peace. Tallen chose war. SoonGäó514
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 103	Posted - 2013.11.20 06:59:00 - [35] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: I love this post, you do realize it takes half as much SP to take everything to level 4? This idea that everything has to be maxed in order to be usable is ridiculous. ok enjoy 60-80 second cooldowns, weak tank..... recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10422	Posted - 2013.11.20 07:02:00 - [36] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Tallen Ellecon wrote: I love this post, you do realize it takes half as much SP to take everything to level 4? This idea that everything has to be maxed in order to be usable is ridiculous. ok enjoy 60-80 second cooldowns, weak tank..... What if I dont fit around modules with cooldowns? Armor FTW. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 104	Posted - 2013.11.20 07:03:00 - [37] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Tallen Ellecon wrote: I love this post, you do realize it takes half as much SP to take everything to level 4? This idea that everything has to be maxed in order to be usable is ridiculous. ok enjoy 60-80 second cooldowns, weak tank..... What if I dont fit around modules with cooldowns? Armor FTW. enjoy? slow? regen? enjoy long CD hardeners recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Monkey MAC killer taxi company 1010	Posted - 2013.11.20 07:07:00 - [38] - Quote Texs Red wrote: CCP needs to lower the SP cost for the proposed vehicle changes in 1.7, as it stands right now vehicles in general with be massive SP sinks that offer very limited diversity of game play. Here is the 1.7 infantry vs vehicle math for you. Gallente Logi with max skills Core: 7,773,000 (Armor plate/repair/upgrades, electronics/engineering) Suit: 2,785,830 Weapon: 8,083,920 (Light weapon, handheld up, AR Op/Pro/Ammo/Reload/Sharpshooter/Fitting) Equipment: 3,731,040 (uplinks, nanotech, active scanner, repair tool) Total: 22,373,790 SP Here you have a wide diversity of play available and ammo is little concern because nanohives and supply depots both give ammo. Also the supply depot is large enough it provides cover while changing fittings and/or resupplying. If you want to change up your play style you can easily skill into different weapons. Gallente Incubus with max skills Core: 9,327,600 (Armor Up/Comp/Repair/Fitting, vehicle core/electronics/engineering, Engine Core/Grid Manage) Turret: 10,571,280 (Small Op, railgun op/ammo/reload/pro/fitting/heat dissipation, turret upgrades, damage amp fitting) Assault Dropship: 5,907,480 (Vehicle command, dropship op/assault/gallente assault) Total: 25,806,360 SP Here my play style is extremely limited as I only have 1 option, attack from above and using different turrets provides little difference (against good AV blasters are useless and missiles are good, railguns are supposed to be good vs vehicles in 1.7 but we will see). Also my ISK cost is likely that of a proto suit x2 or x3 depending on my fitting. CCP, this a an unreasonable SP cost for vehicles. On some maps a single forge gunner can deny me the entire map, thus preventing from playing. My 26M SP is now worthless. An infantry suit is far more adaptive and flexible both with weapons and function, the gallente logi suit can earn WP by scanning, repping, reviving, and putting down uplinks as well as killing other players with a multitude of different weapons. In my assault dropship I have only one real method of earning WP (killing) and I can easily shut out of a match be a few dedicated AV players. A single forge gunner on Line Harvest on the table top in the middle can cover every meaningful point on the map for an dropship. The dropship is a niche weapon, like the laser rifle. It is not good in all cases and therefore you want other options incase using it on a certain map is not a good idea. Having it cost this much SP with zero flexibility is like have a dedicated sniper with 26M SP and can do nothing else other than snipe. How is 1suit with 1 possible loadout, 1weapon, 1 equipment layout, more diverse than 1 tank with 1 possible loadout? You also negated 3x Core skills(Scan profile, range, precision) Grenades and you used the cheapest light weapon. The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 104	Posted - 2013.11.20 07:09:00 - [39] - Quote infantry can hack, kill repair, use equipment, infantry is supposed to be main unit. recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1258	Posted - 2013.11.20 07:16:00 - [40] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: The SP sinks make sense to me. This game is designed to be around for many years. At the current pace, people would exhaust their options too quickly. The idea is that you can't ever have everything (by design). Completely maxing out the vehicle tree should take years of SP. Look at EVE, the system works well. We currently have maxed hulls and turrets with the skill trees as they are right now. We're looking at a lot more for say, both tank hulls and all 3 turret types maxed out, and that's not even including the small turrets, just the large ones. Huge SP sink and in general, a huge disappointment. I just hope they give pilots a full respec of all skills so we could attempt to build up a tank that won't be destroyed by a STD mass driver. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.

Monkey MAC killer taxi company 1010	Posted - 2013.11.20 07:23:00 - [41] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Vell0cet wrote: The SP sinks make sense to me. This game is designed to be around for many years. At the current pace, people would exhaust their options too quickly. The idea is that you can't ever have everything (by design). Completely maxing out the vehicle tree should take years of SP. Look at EVE, the system works well. We currently have maxed hulls and turrets with the skill trees as they are right now. We're looking at a lot more for say, both tank hulls and all 3 turret types maxed out, and that's not even including the small turrets, just the large ones. Huge SP sink and in general, a huge disappointment. I just hope they give pilots a full respec of all skills so we could attempt to build up a tank that won't be destroyed by a STD mass driver. Sorry but why do you need access to ALL 3 Heavy Turrets, ALL 3 Light Turrets and BOTH Tank Hulls? That's like saying in order to be effective on the field, I need access to ALL medium suits, ALL light weapons and ALL Equipment. Have you considered that they might want you to go into 1 hull, maybe 2 heavy turrets, and maybe 2 light turrets! The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle 40	Posted - 2013.11.20 07:26:00 - [42] - Quote I'm pretty concerned about the vehicle 'sp sink', I'm a 'newer' player to dust having been around for about 3 months... and to be honest I find the vehicle sp requirements to be quite honest absolutely ******* insane, there is a much higher investment cap to even get modules that my intended vehicles have intended bonuses for than a great number of infantry skills do! Big heavy sp padded sinks that do nothing aren't fun, they aren't meaningful and they on the whole detract a great amount from anyones enjoyment of the game.
Nguruthos IX PEN 15 CLUB 2263	Posted - 2013.11.20 07:32:00 - [43] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: I'm pretty concerned about the vehicle 'sp sink', I'm a 'newer' player to dust having been around for about 3 months... and to be honest I find the vehicle sp requirements to be quite honest absolutely ******* insane, there is a much higher investment cap to even get modules that my intended vehicles have intended bonuses for than a great number of infantry skills do! Big heavy sp padded sinks that do nothing aren't fun, they aren't meaningful and they on the whole detract a great amount from anyones enjoyment of the game. Just that NPE CCP's been cookin up lol
Broonfondle Majikthies Bannana Boat Corp Relentless Heroes Alliance 467	Posted - 2013.11.20 07:32:00 - [44] - Quote I have my suits and skills in a decent place with infantry, even with some terrible choices along the way and only at 11mil SP This includes lots of vehicle core skills and command of most Gallente vehicles in the game. As it stands I'm happy to keep my infantry where it is, Proto is so overrated. The vehicle skills I'll be redeemed will go straight back in to the placeholder racial skills and I'll build from there. "Beware the wrath of a patient man" "We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
Monkey MAC killer taxi company 1010	Posted - 2013.11.20 07:33:00 - [45] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: I'm pretty concerned about the vehicle 'sp sink', I'm a 'newer' player to dust having been around for about 3 months... and to be honest I find the vehicle sp requirements to be quite honest absolutely ******* insane, there is a much higher investment cap to even get modules that my intended vehicles have intended bonuses for than a great number of infantry skills do! Big heavy sp padded sinks that do nothing aren't fun, they aren't meaningful and they on the whole detract a great amount from anyones enjoyment of the game. There aren't really anymore sinks in vehicles than suits, the trees are almost identical! The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle 41	Posted - 2013.11.20 07:38:00 - [46] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: I'm pretty concerned about the vehicle 'sp sink', I'm a 'newer' player to dust having been around for about 3 months... and to be honest I find the vehicle sp requirements to be quite honest absolutely ******* insane, there is a much higher investment cap to even get modules that my intended vehicles have intended bonuses for than a great number of infantry skills do! Big heavy sp padded sinks that do nothing aren't fun, they aren't meaningful and they on the whole detract a great amount from anyones enjoyment of the game. There aren't really anymore sinks in vehicles than suits, the trees are almost identical! I've been playing eve off and on for the better part of 7 years, and there are a ton of skillpoint sinks in dust that literally do nothing for you. I started this game because it was tied in with the eve universe that I know and love (being the proud owner of two accounts) - and due to circumstances haven't been able to enjoy as much because eve requires a lot of time thrown at it - and I have mostly stayed around for vehicles (and laser rifles). My main in eve can do eleventybajillion things really really well with not a huge amount of SP (for eve), and for roughly the same amount of sp in dust I might be able to do two things well. There are some rather glaringly large problems with that.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company 1011	Posted - 2013.11.20 07:43:00 - [47] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: I'm pretty concerned about the vehicle 'sp sink', I'm a 'newer' player to dust having been around for about 3 months... and to be honest I find the vehicle sp requirements to be quite honest absolutely ******* insane, there is a much higher investment cap to even get modules that my intended vehicles have intended bonuses for than a great number of infantry skills do! Big heavy sp padded sinks that do nothing aren't fun, they aren't meaningful and they on the whole detract a great amount from anyones enjoyment of the game. There aren't really anymore sinks in vehicles than suits, the trees are almost identical! I've been playing eve off and on for the better part of 7 years, and there are a ton of skillpoint sinks in dust that literally do nothing for you. I started this game because it was tied in with the eve universe that I know and love (being the proud owner of two accounts) - and due to circumstances haven't been able to enjoy as much because eve requires a lot of time thrown at it - and I have mostly stayed around for vehicles (and laser rifles). My main in eve can do eleventybajillion things really really well with not a huge amount of SP (for eve), and for roughly the same amount of sp in dust I might be able to do two things well. There are some rather glaringly large problems with that. Perspective, you assume you have to max everything out! An omni soilder doesn't require much for 1 proto suit and all light weaponry at lvl1! However there are skills which do NOTHING and instead of removing them I would like them to have small passive boosts! Wise man say: Branch no need leaves to be useful, sometime branch lead to other branches The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle 42	Posted - 2013.11.20 07:53:00 - [48] - Quote Quote: Perspective, you assume you have to max everything out! An omni soilder doesn't require much for 1 proto suit and all light weaponry at lvl1! However there are skills which do NOTHING and instead of removing them I would like them to have small passive boosts! Wise man say: Branch no need leaves to be useful, sometime branch lead to other branches No, there is no assumption that 'everything needs to be maxed in order to be useful', however as it is if you want to do more than one thing well, you sure as hell aren't going to be able to achieve it before 10m sp. Maybe as a vehicle user, I'd like to be able to both use a shield dropship and an armor tank because with a shield dropship I'm able to really dart in and out of fights, but as a tank I want to be able to sit there and shoot people who are going to be throwing av at me. In order to be effective at both of these roles the SP I need is quite honestly more than doubled as there's no real overlap.
Nguruthos IX PEN 15 CLUB 2266	Posted - 2013.11.20 07:55:00 - [49] - Quote RedZer0 MK1 wrote: SP sinks are truly hurting the game, not just vehicles. If the game is good, people will play. There is no need to artificially inflate play time. Dust doesn't need the fluff. Devs seem to think Fluff is all they can have to offer
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1258	Posted - 2013.11.20 07:55:00 - [50] - Quote dogmanpig wrote: RedZer0 MK1 wrote: SP sinks are truly hurting the game, not just vehicles. If the game is good, people will play. There is no need to artificially inflate play time. Dust doesn't need the fluff. MMO tactic.... its not an FPS tactic to keep players... thats why it feels out of place. dust is mostly just a lobby FPS and not a MMO but has MMO stapled on the side. its missing the first M in MMO How many times do I have to say this isn't a lobby game? If the developers have added "matchmaking," then it isn't lobby-based. You can't go into games with and against people of equivalent SP levels. You could have plenty of games against guys with 20mil + into infantry, and plenty of games with people on your side having less than 5 mil SP. I should know, because I get put on terrible teams 8 times out of 10. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.

Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1258	Posted - 2013.11.20 07:57:00 - [51] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Tallen Ellecon wrote: I love this post, you do realize it takes half as much SP to take everything to level 4? This idea that everything has to be maxed in order to be usable is ridiculous. ok enjoy 60-80 second cooldowns, weak tank..... What if I dont fit around modules with cooldowns? Armor FTW. So what are you going to do, fit all armor repair units? Good luck surviving. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Nguruthos IX PEN 15 CLUB 2266	Posted - 2013.11.20 07:57:00 - [52] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Quote: Perspective, you assume you have to max everything out! An omni soilder doesn't require much for 1 proto suit and all light weaponry at lvl1! However there are skills which do NOTHING and instead of removing them I would like them to have small passive boosts! Wise man say: Branch no need leaves to be useful, sometime branch lead to other branches No, there is no assumption that 'everything needs to be maxed in order to be useful', however as it is if you want to do more than one thing well, you sure as hell aren't going to be able to achieve it before 10m sp. Maybe as a vehicle user, I'd like to be able to both use a shield dropship and an armor tank because with a shield dropship I'm able to really dart in and out of fights, but as a tank I want to be able to sit there and shoot people who are going to be throwing av at me. In order to be effective at both of these roles the SP I need is quite honestly more than doubled as there's no real overlap. Or if you wanted to place a decent armor mod on a shield dropship Infantry get to do this at little to no extra cost and its part of the game. - design varied fittings Why is CCP now designing vehicles to decimate, near obliterate fitting options and restrict players by one single role or another. Or spend 50 million freaking SP
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1258	Posted - 2013.11.20 07:59:00 - [53] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Vell0cet wrote: The SP sinks make sense to me. This game is designed to be around for many years. At the current pace, people would exhaust their options too quickly. The idea is that you can't ever have everything (by design). Completely maxing out the vehicle tree should take years of SP. Look at EVE, the system works well. We currently have maxed hulls and turrets with the skill trees as they are right now. We're looking at a lot more for say, both tank hulls and all 3 turret types maxed out, and that's not even including the small turrets, just the large ones. Huge SP sink and in general, a huge disappointment. I just hope they give pilots a full respec of all skills so we could attempt to build up a tank that won't be destroyed by a STD mass driver. Sorry but why do you need access to ALL 3 Heavy Turrets, ALL 3 Light Turrets and BOTH Tank Hulls? That's like saying in order to be effective on the field, I need access to ALL medium suits, ALL light weapons and ALL Equipment. Have you considered that they might want you to go into 1 hull, maybe 2 heavy turrets, and maybe 2 light turrets! Do you only have one suit and one weapon? Why do you need access to all 3 suit classes, and say 2 basic PRO suits, and 1 assault and 1 logi? Why does anybody skill into any variation at all? Oh yeah, different tools for different jobs. Don't tell me how to be a tanker, and I won't tell you how to be infantry. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle 43	Posted - 2013.11.20 08:04:00 - [54] - Quote Quote: Sorry but why do you need access to ALL 3 Heavy Turrets, ALL 3 Light Turrets and BOTH Tank Hulls? That's like saying in order to be effective on the field, I need access to ALL medium suits, ALL light weapons and ALL Equipment. Have you considered that they might want you to go into 1 hull, maybe 2 heavy turrets, and maybe 2 light turrets Do you only have one suit and one weapon? Why do you need access to all 3 suit classes, and say 2 basic PRO suits, and 1 assault and 1 logi? Why does anybody skill into any variation at all? Oh yeah, different tools for different jobs. Don't tell me how to be a tanker, and I won't tell you how to be infantry. Exactly this, I have had matches within my corp where I saw the enemy team bust out 3 tanks and as the only dedicated vbehicle specialist in my corps squad, it was up to me to try to figure out how to do that with just one tank. I ended up rail sniping one, then recalling that tank, pulling out a missile fit and blitzing down the armor tank and eventually killing the last with a blaster tank and some support from a corpmate with decent swarm launcher skills.. I know its ***ing AR 514 for infantry players, but unfortunately other 'professions' actually DO* need to use more than one weapon in this game in order to be effective.
Lorhak Gannarsein 614	Posted - 2013.11.20 08:10:00 - [55] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Vell0cet wrote: The SP sinks make sense to me. This game is designed to be around for many years. At the current pace, people would exhaust their options too quickly. The idea is that you can't ever have everything (by design). Completely maxing out the vehicle tree should take years of SP. Look at EVE, the system works well. We currently have maxed hulls and turrets with the skill trees as they are right now. We're looking at a lot more for say, both tank hulls and all 3 turret types maxed out, and that's not even including the small turrets, just the large ones. Huge SP sink and in general, a huge disappointment. I just hope they give pilots a full respec of all skills so we could attempt to build up a tank that won't be destroyed by a STD mass driver. Sorry but why do you need access to ALL 3 Heavy Turrets, ALL 3 Light Turrets and BOTH Tank Hulls? That's like saying in order to be effective on the field, I need access to ALL medium suits, ALL light weapons and ALL Equipment. Have you considered that they might want you to go into 1 hull, maybe 2 heavy turrets, and maybe 2 light turrets! Yeah! I love it when I'm using my Laser, and the map is that underground one and everyone on the other team is a shotgunner! Makes it really easy to kill everyone! oh wait. one weapon is not suited to all situations. GTFO. It still takes me 14M to max out a Madrugar with proto large and small blasters.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company 1013	Posted - 2013.11.20 09:21:00 - [56] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Vell0cet wrote: The SP sinks make sense to me. This game is designed to be around for many years. At the current pace, people would exhaust their options too quickly. The idea is that you can't ever have everything (by design). Completely maxing out the vehicle tree should take years of SP. Look at EVE, the system works well. We currently have maxed hulls and turrets with the skill trees as they are right now. We're looking at a lot more for say, both tank hulls and all 3 turret types maxed out, and that's not even including the small turrets, just the large ones. Huge SP sink and in general, a huge disappointment. I just hope they give pilots a full respec of all skills so we could attempt to build up a tank that won't be destroyed by a STD mass driver. Sorry but why do you need access to ALL 3 Heavy Turrets, ALL 3 Light Turrets and BOTH Tank Hulls? That's like saying in order to be effective on the field, I need access to ALL medium suits, ALL light weapons and ALL Equipment. Have you considered that they might want you to go into 1 hull, maybe 2 heavy turrets, and maybe 2 light turrets! Yeah! I love it when I'm using my Laser, and the map is that underground one and everyone on the other team is a shotgunner! Makes it really easy to kill everyone! oh wait. one weapon is not suited to all situations. GTFO. It still takes me 14M to max out a Madrugar with proto large and small blasters. Yeah, which is why you have a squad, for example if I were to join your squad and we were fighting down those hallways my Mass Driver would be perfect, but if we were to go out onto fractured road, or just to leave the research facility, my Mass Driver would be useless I wouldn't kill anyone, but you with your LASER would butcher people. You can't expect as pilot to be able to adjust to every situation just by switching out. I don't do it with my suit, if I am running logi I can't swap out for another weapon when I feel like,because my team are expecting the benefits of my Mass Driver when they need it. If I have swapped out because we have moved into a different theater I leave my squad open to a weakness! so you GTFO The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1260	Posted - 2013.11.20 09:28:00 - [57] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Vell0cet wrote: The SP sinks make sense to me. This game is designed to be around for many years. At the current pace, people would exhaust their options too quickly. The idea is that you can't ever have everything (by design). Completely maxing out the vehicle tree should take years of SP. Look at EVE, the system works well. We currently have maxed hulls and turrets with the skill trees as they are right now. We're looking at a lot more for say, both tank hulls and all 3 turret types maxed out, and that's not even including the small turrets, just the large ones. Huge SP sink and in general, a huge disappointment. I just hope they give pilots a full respec of all skills so we could attempt to build up a tank that won't be destroyed by a STD mass driver. Sorry but why do you need access to ALL 3 Heavy Turrets, ALL 3 Light Turrets and BOTH Tank Hulls? That's like saying in order to be effective on the field, I need access to ALL medium suits, ALL light weapons and ALL Equipment. Have you considered that they might want you to go into 1 hull, maybe 2 heavy turrets, and maybe 2 light turrets! Yeah! I love it when I'm using my Laser, and the map is that underground one and everyone on the other team is a shotgunner! Makes it really easy to kill everyone! oh wait. one weapon is not suited to all situations. GTFO. It still takes me 14M to max out a Madrugar with proto large and small blasters. Yeah, which is why you have a squad, for example if I were to join your squad and we were fighting down those hallways my Mass Driver would be perfect, but if we were to go out onto fractured road, or just to leave the research facility, my Mass Driver would be useless I wouldn't kill anyone, but you with your LASER would butcher people. You can't expect as pilot to be able to adjust to every situation just by switching out. I don't do it with my suit, if I am running logi I can't swap out for another weapon when I feel like,because my team are expecting the benefits of my Mass Driver when they need it. If I have swapped out because we have moved into a different theater I leave my squad open to a weakness! so you GTFO So the only weapon you have is a mass driver? Your own fault for such shortsightedness. As for me, I have different tanks for different jobs. It's not my fault you simply cannot understand that. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company 1013	Posted - 2013.11.20 09:30:00 - [58] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Vell0cet wrote: The SP sinks make sense to me. This game is designed to be around for many years. At the current pace, people would exhaust their options too quickly. The idea is that you can't ever have everything (by design). Completely maxing out the vehicle tree should take years of SP. Look at EVE, the system works well. We currently have maxed hulls and turrets with the skill trees as they are right now. We're looking at a lot more for say, both tank hulls and all 3 turret types maxed out, and that's not even including the small turrets, just the large ones. Huge SP sink and in general, a huge disappointment. I just hope they give pilots a full respec of all skills so we could attempt to build up a tank that won't be destroyed by a STD mass driver. Sorry but why do you need access to ALL 3 Heavy Turrets, ALL 3 Light Turrets and BOTH Tank Hulls? That's like saying in order to be effective on the field, I need access to ALL medium suits, ALL light weapons and ALL Equipment. Have you considered that they might want you to go into 1 hull, maybe 2 heavy turrets, and maybe 2 light turrets! Do you only have one suit and one weapon? Why do you need access to all 3 suit classes, and say 2 basic PRO suits, and 1 assault and 1 logi? Why does anybody skill into any variation at all? Oh yeah, different tools for different jobs. Don't tell me how to be a tanker, and I won't tell you how to be infantry. As matter of fact I run upto a max of 3 fits at the moment 1 mini Logi - Mass Driver - RE - Hive - Hive(to be replaced with shield bubble) - PE(to be replaced with turret) (Proto) 1 mini Assault - Mass Driver - Scrambler Pistol - RE (Adv) 1 Heavy - Forge Gun (MLT) So really I have only skilled into 1 Race-Suit, only 1 light weapon, and 2 equipment Much like as if I had skilled into 1 Race-Hull, only 1 Heavy Turret, and 2 light turrets I took the Mini Assault because I didn't want skill into vehicles in my main until the gunships are released. The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Monkey MAC killer taxi company 1013	Posted - 2013.11.20 09:33:00 - [59] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: [quote=Spkr4theDead] Sorry but why do you need access to ALL 3 Heavy Turrets, ALL 3 Light Turrets and BOTH Tank Hulls? That's like saying in order to be effective on the field, I need access to ALL medium suits, ALL light weapons and ALL Equipment. Have you considered that they might want you to go into 1 hull, maybe 2 heavy turrets, and maybe 2 light turrets! Yeah! I love it when I'm using my Laser, and the map is that underground one and everyone on the other team is a shotgunner! Makes it really easy to kill everyone! oh wait. one weapon is not suited to all situations. GTFO. It still takes me 14M to max out a Madrugar with proto large and small blasters. Yeah, which is why you have a squad, for example if I were to join your squad and we were fighting down those hallways my Mass Driver would be perfect, but if we were to go out onto fractured road, or just to leave the research facility, my Mass Driver would be useless I wouldn't kill anyone, but you with your LASER would butcher people. You can't expect as pilot to be able to adjust to every situation just by switching out. I don't do it with my suit, if I am running logi I can't swap out for another weapon when I feel like,because my team are expecting the benefits of my Mass Driver when they need it. If I have swapped out because we have moved into a different theater I leave my squad open to a weakness! so you GTFO So the only weapon you have is a mass driver? Your own fault for such shortsightedness. As for me, I have different tanks for different jobs. It's not my fault you simply cannot understand that. Heh heh I love it, you think it is shortsighted? Because I take a weapon, I take a role in my squad and I do it? I rely on my squad to cover my short-comings, my squad relies on me to covers their's, we each have jobs we do, it's not my fault you simply cannot understand that. The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1261	Posted - 2013.11.20 09:35:00 - [60] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Heh heh I love it, you think it is shortsighted? Because I take a weapon, I take a role in my squad and I do it? I rely on my squad to cover my short-comings, my squad relies on me to covers their's, we each have jobs we do, it's not my fault you simply cannot understand that. No, shortsighted that you seem to be skilled into only one gun. You just want tankers to be nerfed even more by limited us to one turret type and one hull type. You don't have to worry about vehicles on Call of Duty. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.

Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1261	Posted - 2013.11.20 09:39:00 - [61] - Quote I find it funny. I have a month of mostly hardcore PC experience, and I never remember seeing you or your corp on the other side. Do you have any PC experience? If not, don't talk to me about roles and responsibilities in a squad. PC counts, ambush doesn't. As a tanker, I have to take on the other team's tanks, forge guns on roofs, AV infantry on the ground, and the odd infantry with AV grenades, not to forget enemy orbitals, but thankfully I've never been the victim of an EVE strike. Counting it (hint: you can do it with one hand), I have to worry about 5 things. At all times, because AV can come from literally anywhere. I once had a red dot crash his dropship into the redline to kill me, then he tried to hack my tank. When you have to worry about people with such a rabid hatred for something, then you can talk with any kind of authority. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company 1013	Posted - 2013.11.20 09:44:00 - [62] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Heh heh I love it, you think it is shortsighted? Because I take a weapon, I take a role in my squad and I do it? I rely on my squad to cover my short-comings, my squad relies on me to covers their's, we each have jobs we do, it's not my fault you simply cannot understand that. No, shortsighted that you seem to be skilled into only one gun. You just want tankers to be nerfed even more by limited us to one turret type and one hull type. You don't have to worry about vehicles on Call of Duty. You don't have to worry about anything on call of duty, like I said it's not short sighted that I have skilled into 1 gun, that gun fits my role. I don't NEED anymore than that weapon to be effective. Speccing into anything else is really just a waste of SP. But of course, you don't understand that do you? As a tanker you need to be able to adapt to EVERY SINGLE SITUATION you might ever come across, you don't think perhaps you should specialize into one role and let someone else spec into another role? Tell you what let's think about the long game here, when they start increasing the number of players a match, there will be more tanks on the field, there will be more tankers on the field. You won't need to cover all bases, you will be dispatched to the fights where you can help out the most. The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Monkey MAC killer taxi company 1013	Posted - 2013.11.20 09:48:00 - [63] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: I find it funny. I have a month of mostly hardcore PC experience, and I never remember seeing you or your corp on the other side. Do you have any PC experience? If not, don't talk to me about roles and responsibilities in a squad. PC counts, ambush doesn't. As a tanker, I have to take on the other team's tanks, forge guns on roofs, AV infantry on the ground, and the odd infantry with AV grenades, not to forget enemy orbitals, but thankfully I've never been the victim of an EVE strike. Counting it (hint: you can do it with one hand), I have to worry about 5 things. At all times, because AV can come from literally anywhere. I once had a red dot crash his dropship into the redline to kill me, then he tried to hack my tank. When you have to worry about people with such a rabid hatred for something, then you can talk with any kind of authority. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Guy's look at this, look he pulled the ReGuYuM argument, he has PC experience, he MUST be so much better than me! I must really be getting somewhere now! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Yes I have PC experience, no I never believe I have had the pleasure of getting to kill your whiney **** in a match. The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 106	Posted - 2013.11.20 09:50:00 - [64] - Quote oh look kids! a re.t.ard. (ooooh)yea, get a good look kids. recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Monkey MAC killer taxi company 1013	Posted - 2013.11.20 09:58:00 - [65] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: oh look kids! a re.t.ard. (ooooh)yea, get a good look kids. Spkr4thedead wrote: Infantry just cannot accept that the best counter to a tank should be another tank. No, it has to be infantry weapons, that are each all more powerful than a turret. That's like saying a 40mm 203 round is more powerful than the main gun of an Abrams. 'nough said! The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Lorhak Gannarsein 615	Posted - 2013.11.20 10:11:00 - [66] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Vell0cet wrote: The SP sinks make sense to me. This game is designed to be around for many years. At the current pace, people would exhaust their options too quickly. The idea is that you can't ever have everything (by design). Completely maxing out the vehicle tree should take years of SP. Look at EVE, the system works well. We currently have maxed hulls and turrets with the skill trees as they are right now. We're looking at a lot more for say, both tank hulls and all 3 turret types maxed out, and that's not even including the small turrets, just the large ones. Huge SP sink and in general, a huge disappointment. I just hope they give pilots a full respec of all skills so we could attempt to build up a tank that won't be destroyed by a STD mass driver. Sorry but why do you need access to ALL 3 Heavy Turrets, ALL 3 Light Turrets and BOTH Tank Hulls? That's like saying in order to be effective on the field, I need access to ALL medium suits, ALL light weapons and ALL Equipment. Have you considered that they might want you to go into 1 hull, maybe 2 heavy turrets, and maybe 2 light turrets! Yeah! I love it when I'm using my Laser, and the map is that underground one and everyone on the other team is a shotgunner! Makes it really easy to kill everyone! oh wait. one weapon is not suited to all situations. GTFO. It still takes me 14M to max out a Madrugar with proto large and small blasters. Yeah, which is why you have a squad, for example if I were to join your squad and we were fighting down those hallways my Mass Driver would be perfect, but if we were to go out onto fractured road, or just to leave the research facility, my Mass Driver would be useless I wouldn't kill anyone, but you with your LASER would butcher people. You can't expect as pilot to be able to adjust to every situation just by switching out. I don't do it with my suit, if I am running logi I can't swap out for another weapon when I feel like,because my team are expecting the benefits of my Mass Driver when they need it. If I have swapped out because we have moved into a different theater I leave my squad open to a weakness! so you GTFO For what it's worth, I have, aside from my tank fittings, which are optimised for a variety of purposes, several infantry fittings; among those is an Ishukone Forge gun fitting, a support logi fitting, an AssaultLogi fitting and an assault fitting. What you're saying is that tankers should have one fitting, even though you can have heaps. GTFO.
Lorhak Gannarsein 615	Posted - 2013.11.20 10:13:00 - [67] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: I find it funny. I have a month of mostly hardcore PC experience, and I never remember seeing you or your corp on the other side. Do you have any PC experience? If not, don't talk to me about roles and responsibilities in a squad. PC counts, ambush doesn't. As a tanker, I have to take on the other team's tanks, forge guns on roofs, AV infantry on the ground, and the odd infantry with AV grenades, not to forget enemy orbitals, but thankfully I've never been the victim of an EVE strike. Counting it (hint: you can do it with one hand), I have to worry about 5 things. At all times, because AV can come from literally anywhere. I once had a red dot crash his dropship into the redline to kill me, then he tried to hack my tank. When you have to worry about people with such a rabid hatred for something, then you can talk with any kind of authority. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Guy's look at this, look he pulled the ReGuYuM argument, he has PC experience, he MUST be so much better than me! I must really be getting somewhere now! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Yes I have PC experience, no I never believe I have had the pleasure of getting to kill your whiney **** in a match. 5 things, that's all you have to worry about? As infantry: Redberries Blueberries my health my squad ownership of objectives Red Vehicles Traps Blue Vehicles Transport you have it easy my friend, you sit in your tank and kill infantry to your heart's content, good for you! *five things that cause me to lose 1M ISK+ or more inside 10s. Please describe to me an infantry fitting that is capable of the same thing.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company 1013	Posted - 2013.11.20 10:14:00 - [68] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: We currently have maxed hulls and turrets with the skill trees as they are right now. We're looking at a lot more for say, both tank hulls and all 3 turret types maxed out, and that's not even including the small turrets, just the large ones. Huge SP sink and in general, a huge disappointment. I just hope they give pilots a full respec of all skills so we could attempt to build up a tank that won't be destroyed by a STD mass driver. Sorry but why do you need access to ALL 3 Heavy Turrets, ALL 3 Light Turrets and BOTH Tank Hulls? That's like saying in order to be effective on the field, I need access to ALL medium suits, ALL light weapons and ALL Equipment. Have you considered that they might want you to go into 1 hull, maybe 2 heavy turrets, and maybe 2 light turrets! Yeah! I love it when I'm using my Laser, and the map is that underground one and everyone on the other team is a shotgunner! Makes it really easy to kill everyone! oh wait. one weapon is not suited to all situations. GTFO. It still takes me 14M to max out a Madrugar with proto large and small blasters. Yeah, which is why you have a squad, for example if I were to join your squad and we were fighting down those hallways my Mass Driver would be perfect, but if we were to go out onto fractured road, or just to leave the research facility, my Mass Driver would be useless I wouldn't kill anyone, but you with your LASER would butcher people. You can't expect as pilot to be able to adjust to every situation just by switching out. I don't do it with my suit, if I am running logi I can't swap out for another weapon when I feel like,because my team are expecting the benefits of my Mass Driver when they need it. If I have swapped out because we have moved into a different theater I leave my squad open to a weakness! so you GTFO For what it's worth, I have, aside from my tank fittings, which are optimised for a variety of purposes, several infantry fittings; among those is an Ishukone Forge gun fitting, a support logi fitting, an AssaultLogi fitting and an assault fitting. What you're saying is that tankers should have one fitting, even though you can have heaps. GTFO. You can heaps of fittings but do you need them? Do you need one for every situation, right away, from the word go? You can have heaps of fittings EVENTUALLY but really you should specialize first, surely? The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Monkey MAC killer taxi company 1013	Posted - 2013.11.20 10:18:00 - [69] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: I find it funny. I have a month of mostly hardcore PC experience, and I never remember seeing you or your corp on the other side. Do you have any PC experience? If not, don't talk to me about roles and responsibilities in a squad. PC counts, ambush doesn't. As a tanker, I have to take on the other team's tanks, forge guns on roofs, AV infantry on the ground, and the odd infantry with AV grenades, not to forget enemy orbitals, but thankfully I've never been the victim of an EVE strike. Counting it (hint: you can do it with one hand), I have to worry about 5 things. At all times, because AV can come from literally anywhere. I once had a red dot crash his dropship into the redline to kill me, then he tried to hack my tank. When you have to worry about people with such a rabid hatred for something, then you can talk with any kind of authority. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Guy's look at this, look he pulled the ReGuYuM argument, he has PC experience, he MUST be so much better than me! I must really be getting somewhere now! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Yes I have PC experience, no I never believe I have had the pleasure of getting to kill your whiney **** in a match. 5 things, that's all you have to worry about? As infantry: Redberries Blueberries my health my squad ownership of objectives Red Vehicles Traps Blue Vehicles Transport you have it easy my friend, you sit in your tank and kill infantry to your heart's content, good for you! five things that cause me to lose 1M ISK+ or more inside 10s. Please describe to me an infantry fitting that is capable of the same thing. The money argument? Five things that cause me to loose 1M ISK in less than 10s? Nothing, I don't spawn back in time. How many different weapons can kill your tank? + How many times you will actually loose a Tank per match? The pen is mightier than the sword* The gun is mightier than both Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1262	Posted - 2013.11.20 10:20:00 - [70] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Heh heh I love it, you think it is shortsighted? Because I take a weapon, I take a role in my squad and I do it? I rely on my squad to cover my short-comings, my squad relies on me to covers their's, we each have jobs we do, it's not my fault you simply cannot understand that. No, shortsighted that you seem to be skilled into only one gun. You just want tankers to be nerfed even more by limited us to one turret type and one hull type. You don't have to worry about vehicles on Call of Duty. You don't have to worry about anything on call of duty, like I said it's not short sighted that I have skilled into 1 gun, that gun fits my role. I don't NEED anymore than that weapon to be effective. Speccing into anything else is really just a waste of SP. But of course, you don't understand that do you? As a tanker you need to be able to adapt to EVERY SINGLE SITUATION you might ever come across, you don't think perhaps you should specialize into one role and let someone else spec into another role? Tell you what let's think about the long game here, when they start increasing the number of players a match, there will be more tanks on the field, there will be more tankers on the field. You won't need to cover all bases, you will be dispatched to the fights where you can help out the most. I trust the people I've gamed with for a while completely. My corp I trust a little less because I've been with them for a month. I trust other tankers on here to hold their end of the line. What I don't trust, are randoms that jump into my tank, then get angry when I don't drive them towards the battle, because you wanna know why? Because they're useless, firing at the MCC, or firing at a tank I'm trying to sneak up on, or firing at a red installation I'm not yet ready to engage, maybe because I'm waiting for a module. As such, I make it my responsibility to have a tank for every situation. I honestly cannot understand why you think it's such a bad thing, that a tanker should be limited to one type of hull and one type of turret. If I'm alone as a tanker, and the enemy team has 4, don't you think it's wise I stay towards the back and harass them with a railgun? If it's two shield tanks on the field, is it not smart to go after them with a blaster? If there's an armor tank on the field with what we deem less than optimum HP, isn't it wise to go after it with a missile tank? I understand all aspects of tanking, and am equipped and ready to deploy the tank that is needed. You, however, are equipped with one weapon, and can only handle a limited field of engagement, when I can handle everything from next to my hull to 600m out. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.

Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1262	Posted - 2013.11.20 10:24:00 - [71] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: The money argument? Five things that cause me to loose 1M ISK in less than 10s? Nothing, I don't spawn back in time. How many different weapons can kill your tank? + How many times you will actually loose a Tank per match? Here we go, with the "how many weapons can kill your tank" argument. Probably everything, if the target vehicle is weak enough, except for the pistol and SMG. You forget the potency of AV weapons, probably because you don't use them. I know how powerful AV can be, because I'm on both sides of that coin. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company 1015	Posted - 2013.11.20 10:35:00 - [72] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: The money argument? Five things that cause me to loose 1M ISK in less than 10s? Nothing, I don't spawn back in time. How many different weapons can kill your tank? + How many times you will actually loose a Tank per match? Here we go, with the "how many weapons can kill your tank" argument. Probably everything, if the target vehicle is weak enough, except for the pistol and SMG. You forget the potency of AV weapons, probably because you don't use them. I know how powerful AV can be, because I'm on both sides of that coin. Answer the second question then. I'm not saying you CAN'T have a tank for every situation, but it should take a considerable amount of time. Don't forget tankers on average get a higher ISK and SP payout a match. So the sinks are going to be wider than infantry, and based on the stats previously it's not that bad by comparison. Also many of your core skills should transfer to other tank fits, you EVENTUALLY earn. As for passangers, yeah I understand, they can be absoulte **holes, fortunately you will be able to remove turrets, and their respective seat from you tank. I would have prefered they provided a carrot method to incentivise having team mates in your tank with you, but that is by the by. Yes if an armor tank has less than optimum HP I would expect a Missile Tanker to take care of him, I wouldn't necessarily expect a blaster tanker to disappear for 10 mins come back, blow it up, disappear for 10 mins, come back as blaster. Especially if I was commanding forces, I want be able to go, Spkr, we need HAV assistance over at C, go in and help clear out the enemy.* What about that missile tank over E? Don't Worry I've got someone else on that, we have a missile tank specialist mobilizing now The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1263	Posted - 2013.11.20 10:47:00 - [73] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: [lolbrainfartderrrrrrrrrr] Dude.......................... I already have over 25mil SP. Who the hell are you to tell me I can't max out all my turret and vehicle skills? Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Vell0cet Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 571	Posted - 2013.11.20 10:47:00 - [74] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: [complaining] Translation. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
Monkey MAC killer taxi company 1016	Posted - 2013.11.20 10:50:00 - [75] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: [lolbrainfartderrrrrrrrrr] Dude.......................... I already have over 25mil SP. Who the hell are you to tell me I can't max out all my turret and vehicle skills? Who am I tell you, who are you tell me? Why are we even arguing, we are both clearly WRONG as far as we are both concerned and you will just never be happy! I shall now continue to beat you with logic you are to childish to understand on your own thread! The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Pvt Numnutz Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 278	Posted - 2013.11.20 13:27:00 - [76] - Quote The gap is only 3 mil huh? Not as shocking as I thought it would be. The only thing I look forward to as a drop ship pilot is the day that team and map sizes are bigger and people want drop ships rather than ignore them. I feel like I may take a break again sometime and come back as one of the only pilots left. Flying is what I do in dust, aside from grinding to fly. I'll probably still be doing it a few years from now.
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 106	Posted - 2013.11.20 13:29:00 - [77] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: The gap is only 3 mil huh? Not as shocking as I thought it would be. The only thing I look forward to as a drop ship pilot is the day that team and map sizes are bigger and people want drop ships rather than ignore them. I feel like I may take a break again sometime and come back as one of the only pilots left. Flying is what I do in dust, aside from grinding to fly. I'll probably still be doing it a few years from now. you've got a pilot with 12 mil isk python recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
GVGMODE WorstPlayersEver 82	Posted - 2013.11.20 14:31:00 - [78] - Quote I believe it is good time to leave Dust since getting that huge amount of skill points plus pilot suit would be such a huge time investment, rather go play ps4 games and leave this crap behind since CCP rarely ACTS when there is an issue.
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2436	Posted - 2013.11.20 14:51:00 - [79] - Quote I'll probably max out a Logistics and Assault suit, Dropsuit Upgrades, two light weapons, and one sidearm before saving SP to get back into vehicles. That should be around 36M SP. Being versatile as infantry is also rather expensive and grabbing level five in all those skills requires over a year of full boosting. Does that match up with skilling a shield and armor dropship with a couple types of turrets and associated support modules, or is piloting even more SP intensive?
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kinsho Swords Caldari State 107	Posted - 2013.11.20 14:52:00 - [80] - Quote I just can't wait til after the first three months after the changes are in place . I want to say first month but that's too soon , so I will say three but it will more than likely take a little longer . You people that are applauding these changes WILL sing a different song when it's all said and done . Again there really is NO difference between the first tier tanks and what's left , besides the fact that one will be easier to destroy than the others , that doesn't sound different than what we had . Now militia has more mods ( the same but with longer cool down times ) and while that's fine and dandy there is NO creativity in this concept . Now you will have NO excuse as to why you will die easier besides the table being stacked against you . No variety , no logic , no foresight , no opinion , no options , no change but for the worst , no sense , not a chance and not fun at all . The Judge made a post asking , " How will we reload ...????.... seeing as how some ( if not most ) of the storage depots are unreachable by vehicles ???? " Again something to address afterwards . Have fun people , with my second chance I will invest in forge guns . I have SOOOOO many Gatsun's in my salvage it's silly and I will be waiting at those storage depots for ALL of YOU who have clapped their hands in admiration of these brainless changes . I just can't wait . " Doubts are like flies and should be crushed !!!!!! " I hope that I am THE FLY SWATTER of those in my presence .

MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle 45	Posted - 2013.11.20 16:10:00 - [81] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: I'm not saying you CAN'T have a tank for every situation, but it should take a considerable amount of time. Don't forget tankers on average get a higher ISK and SP payout a match. So the sinks are going to be wider than infantry, and based on the stats previously it's not that bad by comparison. High payouts compared to what? the 4 people fresh out of academy who don't manage to do anything all round? Because if you want to know who's actually getting the high payouts it sure as hell isn't tanks, its logi's - I can earn 200+ wps for picking up a dead heavy and repping him up to full hp with militia gear. Tanks don't get anything even comparable in terms of sp/isk payouts unless the whole enemy team refuses to use any av at all.
pdiddy anfama KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 77	Posted - 2013.11.20 16:22:00 - [82] - Quote Calling for a nerf to the forge gun! Vehicles are not viable as everyone who was will be a forge gunner or HMG.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company 1022	Posted - 2013.11.20 16:40:00 - [83] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: I'm not saying you CAN'T have a tank for every situation, but it should take a considerable amount of time. Don't forget tankers on average get a higher ISK and SP payout a match. So the sinks are going to be wider than infantry, and based on the stats previously it's not that bad by comparison. High payouts compared to what? the 4 people fresh out of academy who don't manage to do anything all round? Because if you want to know who's actually getting the high payouts it sure as hell isn't tanks, its logi's - I can earn 200+ wps for picking up a dead heavy and repping him up to full hp with militia gear. Tanks don't get anything even comparable in terms of sp/isk payouts unless the whole enemy team refuses to use any av at all. And as you see a logi suit has a lot of requirements just like the tank, standard infantry usually get paid 210,000 isk for a public anyway, what do tankers get, I'd hazard around 280,000 based on my tanking Alt! The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Flyingconejo KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 325	Posted - 2013.11.20 17:01:00 - [84] - Quote +1 to the OP. Blah, blah, blah, 7 years, blah, blah, blah,.... New sp sinks are not needed.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1270	Posted - 2013.11.20 18:15:00 - [85] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: [lolbrainfartderrrrrrrrrr] Dude.......................... I already have over 25mil SP. Who the hell are you to tell me I can't max out all my turret and vehicle skills? Who am I tell you, who are you tell me? Why are we even arguing, we are both clearly WRONG as far as we are both concerned and you will just never be happy! I shall now continue to beat you with logic you are to childish to understand on your own thread! You don't have any logic. You're trying to make a case that I shouldn't be allowed to skill into a second hull type, or second or third turret type. That's exactly what it sounds like! Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1270	Posted - 2013.11.20 18:17:00 - [86] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: I'm not saying you CAN'T have a tank for every situation, but it should take a considerable amount of time. Don't forget tankers on average get a higher ISK and SP payout a match. So the sinks are going to be wider than infantry, and based on the stats previously it's not that bad by comparison. High payouts compared to what? the 4 people fresh out of academy who don't manage to do anything all round? Because if you want to know who's actually getting the high payouts it sure as hell isn't tanks, its logi's - I can earn 200+ wps for picking up a dead heavy and repping him up to full hp with militia gear. Tanks don't get anything even comparable in terms of sp/isk payouts unless the whole enemy team refuses to use any av at all. And as you see a logi suit has a lot of requirements just like the tank, standard infantry usually get paid 210,000 isk for a public anyway, what do tankers get, I'd hazard around 280,000 based on my tanking Alt! LOL Yeah right you have a tanking alt. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Monkey Marikoko Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2013.11.20 18:30:00 - [87] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: I'm not saying you CAN'T have a tank for every situation, but it should take a considerable amount of time. Don't forget tankers on average get a higher ISK and SP payout a match. So the sinks are going to be wider than infantry, and based on the stats previously it's not that bad by comparison. High payouts compared to what? the 4 people fresh out of academy who don't manage to do anything all round? Because if you want to know who's actually getting the high payouts it sure as hell isn't tanks, its logi's - I can earn 200+ wps for picking up a dead heavy and repping him up to full hp with militia gear. Tanks don't get anything even comparable in terms of sp/isk payouts unless the whole enemy team refuses to use any av at all. And as you see a logi suit has a lot of requirements just like the tank, standard infantry usually get paid 210,000 isk for a public anyway, what do tankers get, I'd hazard around 280,000 based on my tanking Alt! LOL Yeah right you have a tanking alt. Sup Bendaeho? Heh heh, bet you were expecting that, eh loco? I'll see you inferiority on the battlefield, see you real soon, esse! Monkey's are the more intelligent species!
darkiller240 K-A-O-S theory 180	Posted - 2013.11.20 19:28:00 - [88] - Quote Its ment to be high or everyone will go into viehicals "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2437	Posted - 2013.11.20 19:52:00 - [89] - Quote darkiller240 wrote: Its ment to be high or everyone will go into viehicals The high cost will definitely ensure pilots will be serious about their career. I dont want to deny anyone the joy and challenge of piloting, but a part of me is ok with delaying that gratification if it also means vehicles will be worth waiting for.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10445	Posted - 2013.11.20 20:32:00 - [90] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Tallen Ellecon wrote: I love this post, you do realize it takes half as much SP to take everything to level 4? This idea that everything has to be maxed in order to be usable is ridiculous. ok enjoy 60-80 second cooldowns, weak tank..... What if I dont fit around modules with cooldowns? Armor FTW. enjoy? slow? regen? enjoy long CD hardeners I don't have room for a hardener, my tank gets full health in 20 seconds. Engagement window places her about 4 seconds though if I get harassed and don't get out. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked

MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle 51	Posted - 2013.11.20 20:44:00 - [91] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: I'm not saying you CAN'T have a tank for every situation, but it should take a considerable amount of time. Don't forget tankers on average get a higher ISK and SP payout a match. So the sinks are going to be wider than infantry, and based on the stats previously it's not that bad by comparison. High payouts compared to what? the 4 people fresh out of academy who don't manage to do anything all round? Because if you want to know who's actually getting the high payouts it sure as hell isn't tanks, its logi's - I can earn 200+ wps for picking up a dead heavy and repping him up to full hp with militia gear. Tanks don't get anything even comparable in terms of sp/isk payouts unless the whole enemy team refuses to use any av at all. And as you see a logi suit has a lot of requirements just like the tank, standard infantry usually get paid 210,000 isk for a public anyway, what do tankers get, I'd hazard around 280,000 based on my tanking Alt! If a tank goes 25/0 and destroys all installations with absolutely no opposition they might get that much... At the cost of their tank costing upwards of 1-2m isk, and contrary to your belief those tanks arent invincible, they die all the time when there's even a little bit of coordinated effort (and with the amount of proto stompers out there that effort isn't uncommon).


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