SP sinks are truly hurting the game, not just vehicles. If the game is good, people will play. There is no need to artificially inflate play time. Dust doesn't need the fluff.

lol you lost all credibility and respect from that one comment.

Just another 15 year old child on the forums, move along.

I love this post, you do realize it takes half as much SP to take everything to level 4? This idea that everything has to be maxed in order to be usable is ridiculous.

ok
enjoy 60-80 second cooldowns, weak tank.....

What if I dont fit around modules with cooldowns?

Armor FTW.

CCP needs to lower the SP cost for the proposed vehicle changes in 1.7, as it stands right now vehicles in general with be massive SP sinks that offer very limited diversity of game play.

Here is the 1.7 infantry vs vehicle math for you.

Gallente Logi with max skills
Core: 7,773,000 (Armor plate/repair/upgrades, electronics/engineering)
Suit: 2,785,830
Weapon: 8,083,920 (Light weapon, handheld up, AR Op/Pro/Ammo/Reload/Sharpshooter/Fitting)
Equipment: 3,731,040 (uplinks, nanotech, active scanner, repair tool)

Total: 22,373,790 SP

Here you have a wide diversity of play available and ammo is little concern because nanohives and supply depots both give ammo. Also the supply depot is large enough it provides cover while changing fittings and/or resupplying. If you want to change up your play style you can easily skill into different weapons.

Gallente Incubus with max skills
Core: 9,327,600 (Armor Up/Comp/Repair/Fitting, vehicle core/electronics/engineering, Engine Core/Grid Manage)
Turret: 10,571,280 (Small Op, railgun op/ammo/reload/pro/fitting/heat dissipation, turret upgrades, damage amp fitting)
Assault Dropship: 5,907,480 (Vehicle command, dropship op/assault/gallente assault)

Total: 25,806,360 SP

Here my play style is extremely limited as I only have 1 option, attack from above and using different turrets provides little difference (against good AV blasters are useless and missiles are good, railguns are supposed to be good vs vehicles in 1.7 but we will see). Also my ISK cost is likely that of a proto suit x2 or x3 depending on my fitting.

CCP, this a an unreasonable SP cost for vehicles.

On some maps a single forge gunner can deny me the entire map, thus preventing from playing. My 26M SP is now worthless.
An infantry suit is far more adaptive and flexible both with weapons and function, the gallente logi suit can earn WP by scanning, repping, reviving, and putting down uplinks as well as killing other players with a multitude of different weapons.
In my assault dropship I have only one real method of earning WP (killing) and I can easily shut out of a match be a few dedicated AV players. A single forge gunner on Line Harvest on the table top in the middle can cover every meaningful point on the map for an dropship.
The dropship is a niche weapon, like the laser rifle. It is not good in all cases and therefore you want other options incase using it on a certain map is not a good idea. Having it cost this much SP with zero flexibility is like have a dedicated sniper with 26M SP and can do nothing else other than snipe.

The SP sinks make sense to me. This game is designed to be around for many years. At the current pace, people would exhaust their options too quickly. The idea is that you can't ever have everything (by design). Completely maxing out the vehicle tree should take years of SP. Look at EVE, the system works well.

We currently have maxed hulls and turrets with the skill trees as they are right now. We're looking at a lot more for say, both tank hulls and all 3 turret types maxed out, and that's not even including the small turrets, just the large ones.

Huge SP sink and in general, a huge disappointment. I just hope they give pilots a full respec of all skills so we could attempt to build up a tank that won't be destroyed by a STD mass driver.

I'm pretty concerned about the vehicle 'sp sink', I'm a 'newer' player to dust having been around for about 3 months... and to be honest I find the vehicle sp requirements to be quite honest absolutely ******* insane, there is a much higher investment cap to even get modules that my intended vehicles have intended bonuses for than a great number of infantry skills do!

Big heavy sp padded sinks that do nothing aren't fun, they aren't meaningful and they on the whole detract a great amount from anyones enjoyment of the game.

I'm pretty concerned about the vehicle 'sp sink', I'm a 'newer' player to dust having been around for about 3 months... and to be honest I find the vehicle sp requirements to be quite honest absolutely ******* insane, there is a much higher investment cap to even get modules that my intended vehicles have intended bonuses for than a great number of infantry skills do!

Big heavy sp padded sinks that do nothing aren't fun, they aren't meaningful and they on the whole detract a great amount from anyones enjoyment of the game.

There aren't really anymore sinks in vehicles than suits, the trees are almost identical!

I've been playing eve off and on for the better part of 7 years, and there are a ton of skillpoint sinks in dust that literally do nothing for you. I started this game because it was tied in with the eve universe that I know and love (being the proud owner of two accounts) - and due to circumstances haven't been able to enjoy as much because eve requires a lot of time thrown at it - and I have mostly stayed around for vehicles (and laser rifles).

My main in eve can do eleventybajillion things really really well with not a huge amount of SP (for eve), and for roughly the same amount of sp in dust I might be able to do *two* things well. There are some rather glaringly large problems with that.

Perspective, you assume you have to max everything out!
An omni soilder doesn't require much for 1 proto suit and all light weaponry at lvl1!

However there are skills which do NOTHING and instead of removing them I would like them to have small passive boosts!

Wise man say:
Branch no need leaves to be useful, sometime branch lead to other branches

SP sinks are truly hurting the game, not just vehicles. If the game is good, people will play. There is no need to artificially inflate play time. Dust doesn't need the fluff.

MMO tactic.... its not an FPS tactic to keep players... thats why it feels out of place.

dust is mostly just a lobby FPS and not a MMO but has MMO stapled on the side. its missing the first M in MMO

What if I dont fit around modules with cooldowns?

Armor FTW.

No, there is no assumption that 'everything needs to be maxed in order to be useful', however as it is if you want to do more than one thing well, you sure as hell aren't going to be able to achieve it before 10m sp.

Maybe as a vehicle user, I'd like to be able to both use a shield dropship and an armor tank because with a shield dropship I'm able to really dart in and out of fights, but as a tank I want to be able to sit there and shoot people who are going to be throwing av at me. In order to be effective at both of these roles the SP I need is quite honestly *more* than doubled as there's no real overlap.

Sorry but why do you need access to ALL 3 Heavy Turrets, ALL 3 Light Turrets and BOTH Tank Hulls?
That's like saying in order to be effective on the field, I need access to ALL medium suits, ALL light weapons and ALL Equipment.

Have you considered that they might want you to go into 1 hull, maybe 2 heavy turrets, and maybe 2 light turrets!

Sorry but why do you need access to ALL 3 Heavy Turrets, ALL 3 Light Turrets and BOTH Tank Hulls?
That's like saying in order to be effective on the field, I need access to ALL medium suits, ALL light weapons and ALL Equipment.

Have you considered that they might want you to go into 1 hull, maybe 2 heavy turrets, and maybe 2 light turrets
Do you only have one suit and one weapon? Why do you need access to all 3 suit classes, and say 2 basic PRO suits, and 1 assault and 1 logi? Why does anybody skill into any variation at all?

Oh yeah, different tools for different jobs. Don't tell me how to be a tanker, and I won't tell you how to be infantry.

Sorry but why do you need access to ALL 3 Heavy Turrets, ALL 3 Light Turrets and BOTH Tank Hulls?
That's like saying in order to be effective on the field, I need access to ALL medium suits, ALL light weapons and ALL Equipment.

Have you considered that they might want you to go into 1 hull, maybe 2 heavy turrets, and maybe 2 light turrets!

Yeah! I love it when I'm using my Laser, and the map is that underground one and everyone on the other team is a shotgunner! Makes it really easy to kill everyone!

oh wait. one weapon is not suited to all situations.

GTFO.

It still takes me 14M to max out a Madrugar with proto large and small blasters.

Yeah, which is why you have a squad, for example if I were to join your squad and we were fighting down those hallways my Mass Driver would be perfect, but if we were to go out onto fractured road, or just to leave the research facility, my Mass Driver would be useless I wouldn't kill anyone, but you with your LASER would butcher people.

You can't expect as pilot to be able to adjust to every situation just by switching out. I don't do it with my suit, if I am running logi I can't swap out for another weapon when I feel like,because my team are expecting the benefits of my Mass Driver when they need it.

If I have swapped out because we have moved into a different theater I leave my squad open to a weakness!

so you GTFO

Do you only have one suit and one weapon? Why do you need access to all 3 suit classes, and say 2 basic PRO suits, and 1 assault and 1 logi? Why does anybody skill into any variation at all?

Oh yeah, different tools for different jobs. Don't tell me how to be a tanker, and I won't tell you how to be infantry.

So the only weapon you have is a mass driver? Your own fault for such shortsightedness.

As for me, I have different tanks for different jobs. It's not my fault you simply cannot understand that.

Heh heh I love it, you think it is shortsighted?
Because I take a weapon, I take a role in my squad and I do it?

I rely on my squad to cover my short-comings, my squad relies on me to covers their's, we each have jobs we do, it's not my fault you simply cannot understand that.