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HYENAKILLER X
TEAM SHINOBI
325
   |
Posted - 2013.11.15 06:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
If you made bpo's of proto gear (excluding vehicles) you would allow people to get incredibly more involved with pc.
All that extra isk could fund an entirely new aspect of pc and substance to the merc mentality.
Guys could buy districts once a week. individuals could buy districts and actually pay corps to defend.
As some one who is pretty much over getting pubstomped, I can speak for many players. A lot of people are over pub stomps, but there are many (if not the vast majority of) corps that do not own and could not defend if they did own districts.
That is not the point of a corp or the game.
Increasing fw does not solve pc. It does not solve the isk problem attached to every single aspect of the game. It is not pay to win. It is pay to own. I personally killed proto guys with duvolles in a militia suit and base ar. This game is about squad base tactics. But for many there is no real fruit to playing well or swuading up because of the immense amount of isk required for even 1 pc.
Also the head corps are always full proto anyways because of the isk generated from all their districts.
Time to shake things up with more than updates and new content. Improve existing content and player experience.
You are welcome for my leadership
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Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
72
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Posted - 2013.11.15 06:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Question: Do you really want to make protostomping worse? Because with BPO's of proto gear, that's exactly what will happen.
I am the Horseless Headsman.
Director and COO of We Who Walk Alone
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Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1841
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 06:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
I watched a video where they said they wanted to rid the game of all BPOs (yea I'm talking about what you own). Did I hear this wrong?
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HYENAKILLER X
TEAM SHINOBI
325
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Posted - 2013.11.15 06:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
I dont own bpo's and all but 2 losses in the 20 games I played today were pubstomps.
You are welcome for my leadership
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Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
73
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Posted - 2013.11.15 06:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ok, I DO own BPO's. Do you know how much I lose when I die with one? NOTHING!!! There is no risk. That will never work with proto gear. No risk on gear that, well, is used by only a few people? High reward, no risk. The exact opposite of vehicles. I have proto AR's but don't use them. Why? Too expensive for me. With a BPO of it... I'd use it every match. Which is exactly what I DON'T want. If I could dislike something, I'd dislike this. Just think of the newcomers. How will they feel if gear that they CANNOT use is free? And... just no. Doesn't make sense, at all.
I am the Horseless Headsman.
Director and COO of We Who Walk Alone
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Cass Caul
290
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Posted - 2013.11.15 06:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:I watched a video where they said they wanted to rid the game of all BPOs (yea I'm talking about what you own). Did I hear this wrong?
Yes, you heard wrong.
@OP
This message is coming from someone that runs Prototype suits in every game. BPOs of anything more than STD gear is bad for the economy. It would completely invalidate the open market concept that CCP hopes to someday implement. I can run Prototype suits all day, in every match, because I have a KDR high enough to support the loss of a few suits each match, and going agsint other people in prototype gear means I earn more ISK per match. Best ISK payment from an Ambush match was around 900,000 ISK. None of my WPs came from Vehicle destruction, btw.
There are definitely people that can only afford to run prototype suits as often as I do because they have big fat corp wallets that came from PC and they earn their ISK from PC, but this is a horrible Idea. Don't use what you can't afford to lose. That's the concept that drives an economy. Right now we can only buy things from NPC, but if we ever want there to be player-trading and DUST to EVE transaction, we cannot have any more BPOs than we currently do.
+ÉߦëddGêÇ -çou -Äll+É-çoGö¦
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HYENAKILLER X
TEAM SHINOBI
326
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Posted - 2013.11.15 07:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
players and their gameplay are not evolving or experiencing the game in its entirety.
Removing the pressure of isk could eleviate a lot of that. Also when dust and eve merge dust players could walk right in(and rightfully so) ready to play with the best of them.
The notion that noobs need anything other than a pro sp spending guide is obsurd to me.
I was in a game with cubs tonight and he ran around letting us kill him. Why? Because with his corps districts and his isk it meant absolutely nothing to him.
They need to take the traing wheels off and get people involved in the core aspect of the game.
You are welcome for my leadership
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Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
74
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Posted - 2013.11.15 07:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cass Caul wrote:Michael Arck wrote:I watched a video where they said they wanted to rid the game of all BPOs (yea I'm talking about what you own). Did I hear this wrong?
Yes, you heard wrong. @OP This message is coming from someone that runs Prototype suits in every game. BPOs of anything more than STD gear is bad for the economy. It would completely invalidate the open market concept that CCP hopes to someday implement. I can run Prototype suits all day, in every match, because I have a KDR high enough to support the loss of a few suits each match, and going agsint other people in prototype gear means I earn more ISK per match. Best ISK payment from an Ambush match was around 900,000 ISK. None of my WPs came from Vehicle destruction, btw. There are definitely people that can only afford to run prototype suits as often as I do because they have big fat corp wallets that came from PC and they earn their ISK from PC, but this is a horrible Idea. Don't use what you can't afford to lose. That's the concept that drives an economy. Right now we can only buy things from NPC, but if we ever want there to be player-trading and DUST to EVE transaction, we cannot have any more BPOs than we currently do.
This. I ONLY use my Duvolles in PC.... And I've only done that once. I make around 260000 ISK in a good game, but that's because I'm still workng on my core skills as well. Went proto to get Rapid Reload, got the SP back when it was changed, still had proto AR. Anyways, there has to be risk with the reward. No risk means that the game is broken. Cass here, if he dies more than, say, 4 times in a normal match loses money. At least, I'm pretty sure he does. With my BPO, I can die infinite number and still make money. But my gear is STD.
I am the Horseless Headsman.
Director and COO of We Who Walk Alone
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Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1842
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 07:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cass Caul wrote:Michael Arck wrote:I watched a video where they said they wanted to rid the game of all BPOs (yea I'm talking about what you own). Did I hear this wrong?
Yes, you heard wrong. @OP This message is coming from someone that runs Prototype suits in every game. BPOs of anything more than STD gear is bad for the economy. It would completely invalidate the open market concept that CCP hopes to someday implement. I can run Prototype suits all day, in every match, because I have a KDR high enough to support the loss of a few suits each match, and going agsint other people in prototype gear means I earn more ISK per match. Best ISK payment from an Ambush match was around 900,000 ISK. None of my WPs came from Vehicle destruction, btw. There are definitely people that can only afford to run prototype suits as often as I do because they have big fat corp wallets that came from PC and they earn their ISK from PC, but this is a horrible Idea. Don't use what you can't afford to lose. That's the concept that drives an economy. Right now we can only buy things from NPC, but if we ever want there to be player-trading and DUST to EVE transaction, we cannot have any more BPOs than we currently do.
Are you sure I heard wrong? He states that the BPOs aren't safe. |
HYENAKILLER X
TEAM SHINOBI
326
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 07:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Risk is irrelevant here. The notion that risk is a defining factor over experiencing the fullness of the game is rediculous. Thinking about the isk you are losing...while losing a match/diminishedkdr/win loss% is redundant. This game is a competition and incorporating an economy that not only detracts from the over all ecperience but hinders it is pointless. People play to win in any other game. People play for isk here. That seems right to you guys?
You are welcome for my leadership
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SoTarian PoParrazi
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
153
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Posted - 2013.11.15 07:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
HYENAKILLER X wrote:Risk is irrelevant here. The notion that risk is a defining factor over experiencing the fullness of the game is rediculous. Thinking about the isk you are losing...while losing a match/diminishedkdr/win loss% is redundant. This game is a competition and incorporating an economy that not only detracts from the over all ecperience but hinders it is pointless. People play to win in any other game. People play for isk here. That seems right to you guys?
You're trying to make Dust into CoD where there's no risk to your stuff. We understand you're just trying to make life easier for the little guy - but it's not going to happen at the cost of the only really interesting part of this game - risk vs reward.
Not to mention BPO Proto is very very close to Pay to Win. |
Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
75
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Posted - 2013.11.15 07:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
HYENAKILLER X wrote:Risk is irrelevant here. The notion that risk is a defining factor over experiencing the fullness of the game is rediculous. Thinking about the isk you are losing...while losing a match/diminishedkdr/win loss% is redundant. This game is a competition and incorporating an economy that not only detracts from the over all ecperience but hinders it is pointless. People play to win in any other game. People play for isk here. That seems right to you guys?
Risk IS relevant, though. I play this game, because I like the risk involved, the challenge of finding a way to stay in the green. If I wanted to play a game with no risk in dying, I'd play COD or Battlefield. Yes, this game is a competition, every game is. But this competition is not about who makes the most money, but who can make the most money while losing some. If you're playing this game JUST to make money, then you're doing it WRONG. Plain and simple. The fullness of this game IS the risk in battle. And protostomping is driving new players away before they can even find a good corp to join. How will making proto gear FREE help with that?
I am the Horseless Headsman.
Director and COO of We Who Walk Alone
|
Void Echo
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
2151
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 07:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
HYENAKILLER X wrote:Risk is irrelevant here. The notion that risk is a defining factor over experiencing the fullness of the game is rediculous. Thinking about the isk you are losing...while losing a match/diminishedkdr/win loss% is redundant. This game is a competition and incorporating an economy that not only detracts from the over all ecperience but hinders it is pointless. People play to win in any other game. People play for isk here. That seems right to you guys?
this is not call of duty, this is in the eve universe where risk and reward is everything, you should get high reward for high risk and low reward for low risk.
this fps is not like all the others youv played before, this is a new one where only the intelligent and hardened survive. here the fps part o the game is NOT the core or main part. if you don't like it, the door is that way.
COD: ==================>
Youtube
Closed Beta (Tanker) Vet
Level 2.1 Forum Warrior
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
311
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 07:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
HYENAKILLER X wrote:If you made bpo's of proto gear (excluding vehicles) you would allow people to get incredibly more involved with pc.
All that extra isk could fund an entirely new aspect of pc and substance to the merc mentality.
Guys could buy districts once a week. individuals could buy districts and actually pay corps to defend.
As some one who is pretty much over getting pubstomped, I can speak for many players. A lot of people are over pub stomps, but there are many (if not the vast majority of) corps that do not own and could not defend if they did own districts.
That is not the point of a corp or the game.
Increasing fw does not solve pc. It does not solve the isk problem attached to every single aspect of the game. It is not pay to win. It is pay to own. I personally killed proto guys with duvolles in a militia suit and base ar. This game is about squad base tactics. But for many there is no real fruit to playing well or swuading up because of the immense amount of isk required for even 1 pc.
Also the head corps are always full proto anyways because of the isk generated from all their districts.
Time to shake things up with more than updates and new content. Improve existing content and player experience.
CCP's economist Dr. Eyjolfur Gudmundsson pretty much said no more BPO's if DUST is to have some player based market there is a bunch of other thing's...
But basically there isnt anyone with more power then him in CCP other then... maybe the CEO.. |
Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1842
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 07:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
This is why I think they are getting rid of the BPOs eventually. To stimulate the economy, possibly. While you might not agree with HyenaKiller and his ideas, the basis of his point is true. There is stagnation. The community is partly to blame for it. Things need to be shaken up a bit. It's like everyone is going to their assigned seats. There's no significant changing of the guard besides "elite" corporations forming and disbanding. Other than that, nothing much happens. |
Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
75
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 07:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:This is why I think they are getting rid of the BPOs eventually. To stimulate the economy, possibly. While you might not agree with HyenaKiller and his ideas, the basis of his point is true. There is stagnation. The community is partly to blame for it. Things need to be shaken up a bit. It's like everyone is going to their assigned seats. There's no significant changing of the guard besides "elite" corporations forming and disbanding. Other than that, nothing much happens.
I agree that his logic is sound, but his conclusion is flawed. This would create a bigger gap between the elite corps and alliances and those like We Who Walk Alone (among others).
I am the Horseless Headsman.
Director and COO of We Who Walk Alone
|
HYENAKILLER X
TEAM SHINOBI
326
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 07:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
SoTarian PoParrazi wrote:HYENAKILLER X wrote:Risk is irrelevant here. The notion that risk is a defining factor over experiencing the fullness of the game is rediculous. Thinking about the isk you are losing...while losing a match/diminishedkdr/win loss% is redundant. This game is a competition and incorporating an economy that not only detracts from the over all ecperience but hinders it is pointless. People play to win in any other game. People play for isk here. That seems right to you guys? You're trying to make Dust into CoD where there's no risk to your stuff. We understand you're just trying to make life easier for the little guy - but it's not going to happen at the cost of the only really interesting part of this game - risk vs reward. Not to mention BPO Proto is very very close to Pay to Win.
You cant pay to win here. And last I checked cod wasnt doing to shabby. Think about all the the options this game is going to have. Think about the timeframe in which an average player will acheive everything presented to him. Reliance on isk alone is a detriment. It is a fundimental flaw.
Average dust experience: hanging in there pubstomp after pub stomp joining corps that dont last or cant afford pc or even defend if they could basically having to compensate by specing into different fotm to pass time and spice things up.
This game (even with boosters) has a very long time line. With the fact that you cant really do all the things with suits you wait for ever to get that you cant use all the time anyways is a flawed concept.
You are welcome for my leadership
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Void Echo
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
2152
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 07:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
HYENAKILLER X wrote:SoTarian PoParrazi wrote:HYENAKILLER X wrote:Risk is irrelevant here. The notion that risk is a defining factor over experiencing the fullness of the game is rediculous. Thinking about the isk you are losing...while losing a match/diminishedkdr/win loss% is redundant. This game is a competition and incorporating an economy that not only detracts from the over all ecperience but hinders it is pointless. People play to win in any other game. People play for isk here. That seems right to you guys? You're trying to make Dust into CoD where there's no risk to your stuff. We understand you're just trying to make life easier for the little guy - but it's not going to happen at the cost of the only really interesting part of this game - risk vs reward. Not to mention BPO Proto is very very close to Pay to Win. You cant pay to win here. And last I checked cod wasnt doing to shabby. Think about all the the options this game is going to have. Think about the timeframe in which an average player will acheive everything presented to him. Reliance on isk alone is a detriment. It is a fundimental flaw. Average dust experience: hanging in there pubstomp after pub stomp joining corps that dont last or cant afford pc or even defend if they could basically having to compensate by specing into different fotm to pass time and spice things up. This game (even with boosters) has a very long time line. With the fact that you cant really do all the things with suits you wait for ever to get that you cant use all the time anyways is a flawed concept.
its not a flawed concept, you just brought up how ****** we all know the match making system is.
Youtube
Closed Beta (Tanker) Vet
Level 2.1 Forum Warrior
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Oswald Rehnquist
575
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 07:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
I agree with the others, one big fat no, and my most expensive fit is like 15k, thus nothing even close to proto.
The added risk prevents people from acting stupid, if you play other fps games, people run in over and over and over. With isk people play it smart/conservatively, and you may "lose" in a traditional sense but you can beat your opponent isk wise. It also makes war of attrition possible, which adds a whole new dynamic to the game.
If you got rid of the market / isk cost on suits, I'd leave the game on account that its most defining feature just become ordinary.
There are plenty of sci fi shooters out there that don't have the same risk/rewards mechanics and without an economy to confuse you, go play those.
Below 28 dB
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Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
77
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 07:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
HYENAKILLER X wrote:SoTarian PoParrazi wrote:HYENAKILLER X wrote:Risk is irrelevant here. The notion that risk is a defining factor over experiencing the fullness of the game is rediculous. Thinking about the isk you are losing...while losing a match/diminishedkdr/win loss% is redundant. This game is a competition and incorporating an economy that not only detracts from the over all ecperience but hinders it is pointless. People play to win in any other game. People play for isk here. That seems right to you guys? You're trying to make Dust into CoD where there's no risk to your stuff. We understand you're just trying to make life easier for the little guy - but it's not going to happen at the cost of the only really interesting part of this game - risk vs reward. Not to mention BPO Proto is very very close to Pay to Win. You cant pay to win here. And last I checked cod wasnt doing to shabby. Think about all the the options this game is going to have. Think about the timeframe in which an average player will acheive everything presented to him. Reliance on isk alone is a detriment. It is a fundimental flaw. Average dust experience: hanging in there pubstomp after pub stomp joining corps that dont last or cant afford pc or even defend if they could basically having to compensate by specing into different fotm to pass time and spice things up. This game (even with boosters) has a very long time line. With the fact that you cant really do all the things with suits you wait for ever to get that you cant use all the time anyways is a flawed concept.
And making proto gear free will fix that? COD is doing well because it's using a tried and true formula: You buy the game FIRST. This is a free to play shooter. I can't think of another shooter that is free. Most others are RPG's. BPO's costed Aurum, which is equivilant to real money. Having top-tier gear for real money, if not pay to win, is really close.
I am the Horseless Headsman.
Director and COO of We Who Walk Alone
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HYENAKILLER X
TEAM SHINOBI
326
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Posted - 2013.11.15 07:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
Isk stops people from playing stupid?
Brothers let us reason(laughing to myself)
This game can not be pay to win. You have to earn sp period. What is so appealing about a player based economy outside the fact if I want proto gear ill have to sell salvage. ill have to sacrifice salvage. Thus I am prompted to make yet another sacrifice(outside suit spec limititions vs available spectrum) instead of getting exactly what I have earned and desired promptly. it is not compensation to have player based economy, it is a diversion of the entirely false accusation of pay to win.
There is no way people are getting the most of their time invested with this current system. People are not getting what they want. There is no greater trophy than skill. Kdr, win loss % community rek.own. There is nothing greater in any game than that. Let me ask you this. On behalf of the vast majority: hows the tour going? Lots of cool stops? See evsrything there was to see? Ready for the mext level?
Allen Iverson said it besy: cant buy a jump shot.
You are welcome for my leadership
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Void Echo
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
2155
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 07:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
HYENAKILLER X wrote:Isk stops people from playing stupid?
Brothers let us reason(laughing to myself)
This game can not be pay to win. You have to earn sp period. What is so appealing about a player based economy outside the fact if I want proto gear ill have to sell salvage. ill have to sacrifice salvage. Thus I am prompted to make yet another sacrifice(outside suit spec limititions vs available spectrum) instead of getting exactly what I have earned and desired promptly. it is not compensation to have player based economy, it is a diversion of the entirely false accusation of pay to win.
There is no way people are getting the most of their time invested with this current system. People are not getting what they want. There is no greater trophy than skill. Kdr, win loss % community rek.own. There is nothing greater in any game than that. Let me ask you this. On behalf of the vast majority: hows the tour going? Lots of cool stops? See evsrything there was to see? Ready for the mext level?
Allen Iverson said it besy: cant buy a jump shot.
don't care about kd, that's for cod fanbois like yourself, the player run market will make dust the very 1st fps game in gamer history to have a completely player run market for the items like its older brother eve has had for 10 years and counting.
whats so appealing about having another run and gun game with out thinking or using intellect to get ahead? all your saying is that you want dust 514 to become full on call of duty in space. go back to middle school kid.
this is Dust 514, made by CCP, the owners, creators and producers of EVE online, the most hardcore mmo of the gamer universe which has been successful for 10 years and counting, they are making dust 514 in the same way they have made eve, its a **** load better than call of duty or battlefield if you look and big picture.
Youtube
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Level 2.1 Forum Warrior
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HYENAKILLER X
TEAM SHINOBI
326
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Posted - 2013.11.15 08:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:HYENAKILLER X wrote:Isk stops people from playing stupid?
Brothers let us reason(laughing to myself)
This game can not be pay to win. You have to earn sp period. What is so appealing about a player based economy outside the fact if I want proto gear ill have to sell salvage. ill have to sacrifice salvage. Thus I am prompted to make yet another sacrifice(outside suit spec limititions vs available spectrum) instead of getting exactly what I have earned and desired promptly. it is not compensation to have player based economy, it is a diversion of the entirely false accusation of pay to win.
There is no way people are getting the most of their time invested with this current system. People are not getting what they want. There is no greater trophy than skill. Kdr, win loss % community rek.own. There is nothing greater in any game than that. Let me ask you this. On behalf of the vast majority: hows the tour going? Lots of cool stops? See evsrything there was to see? Ready for the mext level?
Allen Iverson said it besy: cant buy a jump shot.
don't care about kd, that's for cod fanbois like yourself, the player run market will make dust the very 1st fps game in gamer history to have a completely player run market for the items like its older brother eve has had for 10 years and counting. whats so appealing about having another run and gun game with out thinking or using intellect to get ahead? all your saying is that you want dust 514 to become full on call of duty in space. go back to middle school kid
Dude I am anti war. I have not played cod or bf 1 time. I also dont find the player market that appealing in light of the salvage drop % vs isk pay out via pubstomp. Player markets are something people tired of playing games do. Player markets are not the reason people play or stay. if kdr isnt a big deal ( please dude) why does everyone set up aly email accounts so the can make new dust accounts? Why do corps set conditions involving kdr but not win loss %?
And please change your tone. I have spent 100$ and will spend more because I genuinely love this game. I play atleast 20 matches 5 days aweek.
My point is the game itself is fine but reward more. People want more from their time and money. Give it to them. greatly diminish the proto edge. Dimish the isk edge. Encourage personal expansion and investment in dust 514.
Stop with the cod comparisons. Stop with the pay to win dodging. You want pay to win go check out dark orbit. Find one comparison between dist and dark orbit.
You are welcome for my leadership
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SoTarian PoParrazi
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
160
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Posted - 2013.11.15 08:22:00 -
[24] - Quote
HYENAKILLER X wrote:Void Echo wrote:HYENAKILLER X wrote:Isk stops people from playing stupid?
Brothers let us reason(laughing to myself)
This game can not be pay to win. You have to earn sp period. What is so appealing about a player based economy outside the fact if I want proto gear ill have to sell salvage. ill have to sacrifice salvage. Thus I am prompted to make yet another sacrifice(outside suit spec limititions vs available spectrum) instead of getting exactly what I have earned and desired promptly. it is not compensation to have player based economy, it is a diversion of the entirely false accusation of pay to win.
There is no way people are getting the most of their time invested with this current system. People are not getting what they want. There is no greater trophy than skill. Kdr, win loss % community rek.own. There is nothing greater in any game than that. Let me ask you this. On behalf of the vast majority: hows the tour going? Lots of cool stops? See evsrything there was to see? Ready for the mext level?
Allen Iverson said it besy: cant buy a jump shot.
don't care about kd, that's for cod fanbois like yourself, the player run market will make dust the very 1st fps game in gamer history to have a completely player run market for the items like its older brother eve has had for 10 years and counting. whats so appealing about having another run and gun game with out thinking or using intellect to get ahead? all your saying is that you want dust 514 to become full on call of duty in space. go back to middle school kid Dude I am anti war. I have not played cod or bf 1 time. I also dont find the player market that appealing in light of the salvage drop % vs isk pay out via pubstomp. Player markets are something people tired of playing games do. Player markets are not the reason people play or stay. if kdr isnt a big deal ( please dude) why does everyone set up aly email accounts so the can make new dust accounts? Why do corps set conditions involving kdr but not win loss %? And please change your tone. I have spent 100$ and will spend more because I genuinely love this game. I play atleast 20 matches 5 days aweek. My point is the game itself is fine but reward more. People want more from their time and money. Give it to them. greatly diminish the proto edge. Dimish the isk edge. Encourage personal expansion and investment in dust 514. Stop with the cod comparisons. Stop with the pay to win dodging. You want pay to win go check out dark orbit. Find one comparison between dist and dark orbit.
Proto BPOs are pay to win - period. Proto's are suppose to be balanced out by a degree because running it at full capacity is costly. What cost is there if it's infinite? Just because you need to spend some time gaining the SP to use the gear doesn't make it any less pay to win. It would also mean killing a proto guy brings less satisfaction - you didn't just take a proto suit form him - he's got infinite.
You're reasoning about player market is also strange - why not go try out CoD or BF if you haven't played them? Would seem more like your cup of tea then this game. In those game you pay to enjoy - this game is free, the enjoyment comes from what you can get from it's uniqueness.
Glad you enjoy the game so much - but the player market is an extremely important aspect of this game. Without it - it's just another lobby shooter. |
Void Echo
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
2157
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Posted - 2013.11.15 08:25:00 -
[25] - Quote
SoTarian PoParrazi wrote:HYENAKILLER X wrote:Void Echo wrote:HYENAKILLER X wrote:Isk stops people from playing stupid?
Brothers let us reason(laughing to myself)
This game can not be pay to win. You have to earn sp period. What is so appealing about a player based economy outside the fact if I want proto gear ill have to sell salvage. ill have to sacrifice salvage. Thus I am prompted to make yet another sacrifice(outside suit spec limititions vs available spectrum) instead of getting exactly what I have earned and desired promptly. it is not compensation to have player based economy, it is a diversion of the entirely false accusation of pay to win.
There is no way people are getting the most of their time invested with this current system. People are not getting what they want. There is no greater trophy than skill. Kdr, win loss % community rek.own. There is nothing greater in any game than that. Let me ask you this. On behalf of the vast majority: hows the tour going? Lots of cool stops? See evsrything there was to see? Ready for the mext level?
Allen Iverson said it besy: cant buy a jump shot.
don't care about kd, that's for cod fanbois like yourself, the player run market will make dust the very 1st fps game in gamer history to have a completely player run market for the items like its older brother eve has had for 10 years and counting. whats so appealing about having another run and gun game with out thinking or using intellect to get ahead? all your saying is that you want dust 514 to become full on call of duty in space. go back to middle school kid Dude I am anti war. I have not played cod or bf 1 time. I also dont find the player market that appealing in light of the salvage drop % vs isk pay out via pubstomp. Player markets are something people tired of playing games do. Player markets are not the reason people play or stay. if kdr isnt a big deal ( please dude) why does everyone set up aly email accounts so the can make new dust accounts? Why do corps set conditions involving kdr but not win loss %? And please change your tone. I have spent 100$ and will spend more because I genuinely love this game. I play atleast 20 matches 5 days aweek. My point is the game itself is fine but reward more. People want more from their time and money. Give it to them. greatly diminish the proto edge. Dimish the isk edge. Encourage personal expansion and investment in dust 514. Stop with the cod comparisons. Stop with the pay to win dodging. You want pay to win go check out dark orbit. Find one comparison between dist and dark orbit. Proto BPOs are pay to win - period. Proto's are suppose to be balanced out by a degree because running it at full capacity is costly. What cost is there if it's infinite? Just because you need to spend some time gaining the SP to use the gear doesn't make it any less pay to win. It would also mean killing a proto guy brings less satisfaction - you didn't just take a proto suit form him - he's got infinite. You're reasoning about player market is also strange - why not go try out CoD or BF if you haven't played them? Would seem more like your cup of tea then this game. In those game you pay to enjoy - this game is free, the enjoyment comes from what you can get from it's uniqueness. Glad you enjoy the game so much - but the player market is an extremely important aspect of this game. Without it - it's just another lobby shooter.
thanks for summing up everything this guy doesn't like.
Youtube
Closed Beta (Tanker) Vet
Level 2.1 Forum Warrior
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Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
78
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Posted - 2013.11.15 08:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
Hyena, with all due respect, will you quit this? You just used the protostomp argument to endorse FREE proto suit? What have you been smoking, mate? Free proto suits will make protostompers more confident, and make new players getting protostomped less likely to play this game. Have you ever played DCUO? Classic example of your idea. You can get to T3 gear for free. For the sake of argument, that's ADV. Then you have to buy either a subscription (which I did) or a DLC to go to T4. That would be Proto, for those keeping track. That equals pay to win. It's the same with PvP gear, in case you're wondering. In your case, you spend Aurum (real money) to save MILLIONS of Isk. The only way this would even be fair is if these BPO's were insanely expensive, like 1000000 Aurum, which is... insane. No one in their right minds would get these BPO's of they were that much, and if they were proportionally cheaper, as in equal in proportional price to the Aurum BPO STD suits as the Isk STD suits (13K Aurum for a STD BPO suit, btw) they would break this game. Since I am beyond STD, even if they got rid of the BPO's, I would not care, but BPO proto is... crazy.
I am the Horseless Headsman.
Director and COO of We Who Walk Alone
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HYENAKILLER X
TEAM SHINOBI
327
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Posted - 2013.11.15 08:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
I dont know about anyone else but this is my first fps online multiplayer. Now im nothing special but I am hardcore about competition.
The player market means absolutely nothing if I dont have salvage or isk. How does the player market keep you competitive?
Why do I care about a player market when in the 6 months ive been here I havent pc'd 1 time?
How is it that having less for long periods of time against better equipped, better skilled Is a "draw"? You mean to tell me ccp is actially selling that verbetum? Ide say no they are not.
The reality is if cod and bf4 were so awesome dust would be gone. But they arent and dust is here. But I can download a "shop keeper" app for my phone somewhere if I wanted a sales game. I dont. I want to shoot people and take territories and be part of epic battles.
give me more for my time. Give me more fore my money. Give me a competitive shot. As an individual give me access to everything. Let me earn victory, not isk.
There is no way in hell bpo proto is pay to win. If anything in this game it levels the playing feild. That doesnt scare me at all.
You are welcome for my leadership
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Void Echo
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
2159
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Posted - 2013.11.15 08:48:00 -
[28] - Quote
HYENAKILLER X wrote:I dont know about anyone else but this is my first fps online multiplayer. Now im nothing special but I am hardcore about competition.
The player market means absolutely nothing if I dont have salvage or isk. How does the player market keep you competitive?
Why do I care about a player market when in the 6 months ive been here I havent pc'd 1 time?
How is it that having less for long periods of time against better equipped, better skilled Is a "draw"? You mean to tell me ccp is actially selling that verbetum? Ide say no they are not.
The reality is if cod and bf4 were so awesome dust would be gone. But they arent and dust is here. But I can download a "shop keeper" app for my phone somewhere if I wanted a sales game. I dont. I want to shoot people and take territories and be part of epic battles.
give me more for my time. Give me more fore my money. Give me a competitive shot. As an individual give me access to everything. Let me earn victory, not isk.
There is no way in hell bpo proto is pay to win. If anything in this game it levels the playing feild. That doesnt scare me at all.
answer to your question:
call of duty is your type of game, do not try to make dust 514 a game everyone will abandon because you don't understand why its core concepts make it unique.
go play call of duty, youl have a better time there since everything is free and everyone has access to all weapons like its nothing (it really is nothing).
if your anti-war then what the **** are you doing here?
and if youv never even played in 1 pc battle, nobody here will take you remotely seriously.
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Closed Beta (Tanker) Vet
Level 2.1 Forum Warrior
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Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1842
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Posted - 2013.11.15 08:52:00 -
[29] - Quote
Smh. Folks with their cookie cutter responses.
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Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
79
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Posted - 2013.11.15 08:53:00 -
[30] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:HYENAKILLER X wrote:I dont know about anyone else but this is my first fps online multiplayer. Now im nothing special but I am hardcore about competition.
The player market means absolutely nothing if I dont have salvage or isk. How does the player market keep you competitive?
Why do I care about a player market when in the 6 months ive been here I havent pc'd 1 time?
How is it that having less for long periods of time against better equipped, better skilled Is a "draw"? You mean to tell me ccp is actially selling that verbetum? Ide say no they are not.
The reality is if cod and bf4 were so awesome dust would be gone. But they arent and dust is here. But I can download a "shop keeper" app for my phone somewhere if I wanted a sales game. I dont. I want to shoot people and take territories and be part of epic battles.
give me more for my time. Give me more fore my money. Give me a competitive shot. As an individual give me access to everything. Let me earn victory, not isk.
There is no way in hell bpo proto is pay to win. If anything in this game it levels the playing feild. That doesnt scare me at all.
answer to your question: call of duty is your type of game, do not try to make dust 514 a game everyone will abandon because you don't understand why its core concepts make it unique. go play call of duty, youl have a better time there since everything is free and everyone has access to all weapons like its nothing (it really is nothing). if your anti-war then what the **** are you doing here? and if youv never even played in 1 pc battle, nobody here will take you remotely seriously.
That anti-war comment... I'm anti-war. I play COD... sometimes. Just so you know....
Anyways, this game is more fun to me because of the risk/reward thing. Hyena, this is New Eden, a galaxy of opportunity, wealth, destruction and death. We die, we lose our gear, that is the risk. We shoot that guy in front of us in the face and they die, we get a reward for it. If it's a proto, we just costed them AT LEAST 250K. And that's profit for us, because it's loss for them. If proto were BPO's, if they were free, where is our extra effort award?
I am the Horseless Headsman.
Director and COO of We Who Walk Alone
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ovary obliterator
Red Star.
EoN.
28
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Posted - 2013.11.15 09:04:00 -
[31] - Quote
/yawn old arguements... new post must mean patch is good if theres nothing new to whine about |
Pent'noir
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
183
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Posted - 2013.11.15 09:05:00 -
[32] - Quote
Future player driven economy, p2w, death has meaning, isk management, ..., ..., ...
I trust the community will show you the errors. |
HYENAKILLER X
TEAM SHINOBI
327
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Posted - 2013.11.15 09:05:00 -
[33] - Quote
Take me seriously? Find me on the battlefeild alone and not take me seriously.
The reality of your comments are that they are not applicable. What advantage is there in having to budget your fights when your goal and core game experience is supposed to be join a corp, purchase districts, defend yours and take others but 70% of your player base simply (&barely gets by) budgetting suits?
If isk is going to basically be thee core focus I want more from it. Everyone wants more from it. Is dust really teaching me to do more, and worry more but get less and do less with my time and money?
And why would bpos of protos have to be insanely expensive? Look at how much isk pc's are. Does that solve anything? Does that increase value of it on any level? 70% of the player base wouldnt know. Costs to much. The other 30% is clearly mixed.
I want you to think about 1 thing. With all the money you can spend on this game, why is isk the deciding factor in the end.
You can yell skill all you want. You can yell risk all you want. Chant market and hyena sucks balls. But why cant I get more from my time. Why doesnt my money have more options. Does going without really contribute. Does additional vurdens and alternate focus create a better game experience than if they wetent there?
Whose prefference ate we ultimately embracing?
You are welcome for my leadership
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Void Echo
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
2161
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Posted - 2013.11.15 09:11:00 -
[34] - Quote
HYENAKILLER X wrote:Take me seriously? Find me on the battlefeild alone and not take me seriously.
The reality of your comments are that they are not applicable. What advantage is there in having to budget your fights when your goal and core game experience is supposed to be join a corp, purchase districts, defend yours and take others but 70% of your player base simply (&barely gets by) budgetting suits?
If isk is going to basically be thee core focus I want more from it. Everyone wants more from it. Is dust really teaching me to do more, and worry more but get less and do less with my time and money?
And why would bpos of protos have to be insanely expensive? Look at how much isk pc's are. Does that solve anything? Does that increase value of it on any level? 70% of the player base wouldnt know. Costs to much. The other 30% is clearly mixed.
I want you to think about 1 thing. With all the money you can spend on this game, why is isk the deciding factor in the end.
You can yell skill all you want. You can yell risk all you want. Chant market and hyena sucks balls. But why cant I get more from my time. Why doesnt my money have more options. Does going without really contribute. Does additional vurdens and alternate focus create a better game experience than if they wetent there?
Whose prefference ate we ultimately embracing?
ok on that part, you fail to realize that Dust 514 only has like 5% of the content CCP has promised us in the past year, I think that's your main problem, too impatient.
this is a game of thinking, intellect and strategy, not just mindless grunts shooting guns (although you wouldn't see that when you look at 95% of the community).
CCP made this game and is still updating it, CCP are the makers of EVE online, one of the hardest games ever, they are making dust with 95% of the eve concepts in mind, they aren't going to make this into a call of duty clone, if they did, dust would be a complete failure.
also, il look for you on the battlefield, I have over 3x the SP you have total, and iv been playing this game for over a year, il definitely kill you one on one.
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Closed Beta (Tanker) Vet
Level 2.1 Forum Warrior
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Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
79
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Posted - 2013.11.15 09:13:00 -
[35] - Quote
HYENAKILLER X wrote:Take me seriously? Find me on the battlefeild alone and not take me seriously.
The reality of your comments are that they are not applicable. What advantage is there in having to budget your fights when your goal and core game experience is supposed to be join a corp, purchase districts, defend yours and take others but 70% of your player base simply (&barely gets by) budgetting suits?
If isk is going to basically be thee core focus I want more from it. Everyone wants more from it. Is dust really teaching me to do more, and worry more but get less and do less with my time and money?
And why would bpos of protos have to be insanely expensive? Look at how much isk pc's are. Does that solve anything? Does that increase value of it on any level? 70% of the player base wouldnt know. Costs to much. The other 30% is clearly mixed.
I want you to think about 1 thing. With all the money you can spend on this game, why is isk the deciding factor in the end.
You can yell skill all you want. You can yell risk all you want. Chant market and hyena sucks balls. But why cant I get more from my time. Why doesnt my money have more options. Does going without really contribute. Does additional vurdens and alternate focus create a better game experience than if they wetent there?
Whose prefference ate we ultimately embracing?
We are embracing the preference of people who want a DIFFERENT style of FPS. The advantage of budgeting your fights is that, if it were real and we had this technology in the real world, we'd lose our gear. BPO's are blueprints, things we can make items with. That is the reality here. That is why BPO's are infinite. And besides, you never answered my question. How would making proto gear free reduce protostomps? I know for a fact if they were free I'd use them, I'd join the protostomp brigade. As would nearly everyone who has made it to proto level.
EDIT: HYENA, what do you use in combat? I'm just wondering if you've tried protostomping and lost money....
I am the Horseless Headsman.
Director and COO of We Who Walk Alone
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HYENAKILLER X
TEAM SHINOBI
327
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Posted - 2013.11.15 09:31:00 -
[36] - Quote
Im no champ but if you ask players theyll tell you im decent.
Bpos for proto gear is killing 3 birds with 1 stone. First by leveling the playing feild by taking isk out of the equation. Secondly that isk can go towards districts and corps where the true end game is. Third, do you really care if everyone has proto? Isnt that the purest expression this game offers? Shouldnt " taking a knee" be an option?
We will merge with eve eventually. What if we want ships? Is the answer really hoing to be tough s*** buy a suit?
Why not promote individual district ownership and be part of an optional collective state based on race with defence assistance. Something more for isk and aurum?
And I dont make money going proto, but I dont get stomped either.
You are welcome for my leadership
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Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
80
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Posted - 2013.11.15 09:49:00 -
[37] - Quote
HYENAKILLER X wrote:Im no champ but if you ask players theyll tell you im decent.
Bpos for proto gear is killing 3 birds with 1 stone. First by leveling the playing feild by taking isk out of the equation. Secondly that isk can go towards districts and corps where the true end game is. Third, do you really care if everyone has proto? Isnt that the purest expression this game offers? Shouldnt " taking a knee" be an option?
We will merge with eve eventually. What if we want ships? Is the answer really hoing to be tough s*** buy a suit?
Why not promote individual district ownership and be part of an optional collective state based on race with defence assistance. Something more for isk and aurum?
And I dont make money going proto, but I dont get stomped either.
You want a ship? Play EVE. Do I care if everyone has proto? No. Do I care that everyone has proto with no risk of losing ANYTHING? Yes. PC is NOT the only endgame this game will have. There is the changes to FW, PvE, etc. Individual district ownership will be possible eventually, but that is WAY in the future. And "leveling the playing field" is counter-intuitive. CCP has stated in the past "PvP is inherently unbalanced". If I'm better than the guy shooting at me, I want him to fear dying. Your statement removes that. And you STILL haven't answered my question. The new people can't use these BPO's because they do not have the SP. How will that help even the playing field?
I am the Horseless Headsman.
Director and COO of We Who Walk Alone
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Broonfondle Majikthies
Bannana Boat Corp
Relentless Heroes Alliance
431
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Posted - 2013.11.15 09:59:00 -
[38] - Quote
ISK is behind the entire risk - reward system.
Without an investment in game currency when you deploy a suit / weapon / vehicle you are making the risk to the profit of the match. With forge gunners, RE's, Snipers and orbitals or just plain good gameplay you can be brought low, but the equipment will also make you hit harder and take more damage, effect the battle more intensely and reward you accordingly.
The old stock BPO's were ok, they were only basic gear at best, but I can see how it was clogging up the system. BPO's were everywhere and the system was flawed - they were effective but no risk was assigned. I only got 2 specifically cus they were unique or pretty
Proto BPO's would totally undermine the system. Where is the balance? at least at the moment when the protostomper is brought low you get the satisfaction of knowing it cost him a sizable chunk of profit on the match (and if you did it in basic gear then its even more satisfying  )
Balancing your ISK is part of the game. Play the role. Your an immortal mercenary hired to do a job - KDR should be meaningless. If you go in your best gear and get blasted don't cry about it. You signed up for the contract amount and knew the risks. Hell we get paid either way.
The ISK you earn is your own, not your Corp, they get a cut but they're not entitled to more.
Now if they could do something to get snipers out of the redzone so they can stop messing up the system it'd be peachy
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
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Kasote Denzara
A Vulture
771
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Posted - 2013.11.15 10:26:00 -
[39] - Quote
Spoiler: There is no "end game" in New Eden, not even in Dust 514. You fight until you lose the will to do so and then you leave. That's it. This is one of the "freedoms" that is part of New Eden. You do what you want with consequences. I don't know if you realize it, but... Planetary Conquest is meaningless. All it really is... is simply an ISK generator. People use it to fund their advances in public games with it against militia and standard people because it's a crutch, a way to makeup for the lack of ability.
"But I trained for it!" I trained to be a heavy with 1200+ eHP and a nearly maxed out weapon (no rapid reload, I'm 'fraid, since I like having that opening), but I don't ******* use it against anything lesser than those worthy. If I went against that, I'd be no better than those I slay. Every single person I know that has been in PC travels in a pack of at least three, if not six, donning full proto. The fact that they are doing this isn't the (moral) problem for me. It's the fact it takes that many to go against new bloods and unorganized randoms, otherwise they'd get stomped out.
I own plenty of BPOs, but not because they are cost-efficient, but instead of the fact I am a collector. That is what I do. My "end game" will be realized when I have collected one of everything. Not FW. Not PC. Both are meaningless and worthless to me. For someone else, this may be another story. Maybe you care about virtual stats that have zero impact on reality, maybe you don't. Maybe you like to kill Amarrians to help your Minmitar allies (I do!), that's all you.
BPOs eliminate all sense of risk. I run them all the times because the ones I have are standard. My standard gear is actually slightly amped advanced gear because of all my investments. There are six weapons that I can use at proto level (on this character), each with at least prof. 3 in them, if not 4. That literally makes all my standard weapons of those superior in nearly every way compared to a "fresh" standard. In a sense, I'm not fighting fair either, but I have enough dignity to be level with the new bloods trying to play.
So, no. Go kitten yourself. There will never be BPO protogear.
"But why do you run BPOs if not for money?!" I give people ISK just because I can. If I get a match where I get a 200k+ gain, I hand off 100k to someone I met in the match. ISK is meaningless to me. There's very little that's interesting to me in this game and collecting keeps me sane as time passes. I also like to look for bugs.
If you think Plasma Rifles take skill to use and are fine as they are, you are the problem.
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Tech De Ra
Electronic Sports League
151
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Posted - 2013.11.15 10:32:00 -
[40] - Quote
You believe you speak for most players when you say bpo's should be proto suits
As someone who own's most of the BPO's that have ever existed, I believe I speak for all the sane players when I say this would be the worst possible thing to do to them, even worse than if they were all removed.
Proto suits are extremely cost inefficient suits and 2 deaths in a match generally result in a loss of isk after the match rewards, making the suit unlimited use would make it the most cost efficient suit in the game, completely removing the risk involved in using them
Tech De Ra // Electronic Sports League Games Co-ordinator
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boba's fetta
Operation Clone Shield
116
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Posted - 2013.11.15 10:57:00 -
[41] - Quote
there should be bpo's of every item ingame except for faction and officer gear. BUT on the condition that it requires matieral to make.
people running free protogear is hugly bad for the game. nope nope nope.
you want isk out of the game what the flying **** just get out. |
HYENAKILLER X
TEAM SHINOBI
328
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Posted - 2013.11.15 15:51:00 -
[42] - Quote
The reality is some people just arent being honest. Infact some of you are blatently instatutionalized. At no time has anyones enjoyment increased from risking isk. Making it out like we are all willfully gambling is a bit overboard. The gamble is the burden. The gamble is the true deterant from bigger and better objectives. The gamble allows bigger, better armed corps to pubstomp at will. Isk is a limitation in many ways. Its an ideal starter system for sure. But the maturation of the player and the experience should not rely on isk. I guess what we all like to do is spend a lot of time using lesser weapons on a longer time line because thats the real fun in the game.
I love the complex suit design. The community is great. But when I play 20 games and have only 2 close fun ones whats the point. As a player I only want to pubstomp the pubstompers. I dont want to run down poorly armed players in a proto race. I want a truly competitive match and thats not happening and the emphasis on isk has a lot to do with it.
You are welcome for my leadership
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Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
545
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Posted - 2013.11.15 16:15:00 -
[43] - Quote
Death is a serious matter.Gäó
That means that things will matter when you die; they'll have a cost associated with dying. BPOs totally and utterly wreck this idea, and there's no getting around that.
The question everyone should be asking, though, is if, as CCP has stated, BPOs would hurt the upcoming in-game economy, how will militia BPO suits be affected? I mean, CCP removed militia grade (and now all the standard-grade AUR-bundle) BPOs, because they were having an effect with CCP's intended isk sink/generation. Well, given that everyone has 5 free suits, what is to stop people from just running those free militia sets exclusively and wrecking the economy? And if those wreck the economy--and will still be present--then why not just have kept the other BPOs in? How is "customized" militia-grade AUR BPO suit different than a free starter one?
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