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Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
72
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Posted - 2013.11.15 06:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
Question: Do you really want to make protostomping worse? Because with BPO's of proto gear, that's exactly what will happen.
I am the Horseless Headsman.
Director and COO of We Who Walk Alone
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Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
73
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Posted - 2013.11.15 06:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ok, I DO own BPO's. Do you know how much I lose when I die with one? NOTHING!!! There is no risk. That will never work with proto gear. No risk on gear that, well, is used by only a few people? High reward, no risk. The exact opposite of vehicles. I have proto AR's but don't use them. Why? Too expensive for me. With a BPO of it... I'd use it every match. Which is exactly what I DON'T want. If I could dislike something, I'd dislike this. Just think of the newcomers. How will they feel if gear that they CANNOT use is free? And... just no. Doesn't make sense, at all.
I am the Horseless Headsman.
Director and COO of We Who Walk Alone
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Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
74
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Posted - 2013.11.15 07:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cass Caul wrote:Michael Arck wrote:I watched a video where they said they wanted to rid the game of all BPOs (yea I'm talking about what you own). Did I hear this wrong?
Yes, you heard wrong. @OP This message is coming from someone that runs Prototype suits in every game. BPOs of anything more than STD gear is bad for the economy. It would completely invalidate the open market concept that CCP hopes to someday implement. I can run Prototype suits all day, in every match, because I have a KDR high enough to support the loss of a few suits each match, and going agsint other people in prototype gear means I earn more ISK per match. Best ISK payment from an Ambush match was around 900,000 ISK. None of my WPs came from Vehicle destruction, btw. There are definitely people that can only afford to run prototype suits as often as I do because they have big fat corp wallets that came from PC and they earn their ISK from PC, but this is a horrible Idea. Don't use what you can't afford to lose. That's the concept that drives an economy. Right now we can only buy things from NPC, but if we ever want there to be player-trading and DUST to EVE transaction, we cannot have any more BPOs than we currently do.
This. I ONLY use my Duvolles in PC.... And I've only done that once. I make around 260000 ISK in a good game, but that's because I'm still workng on my core skills as well. Went proto to get Rapid Reload, got the SP back when it was changed, still had proto AR. Anyways, there has to be risk with the reward. No risk means that the game is broken. Cass here, if he dies more than, say, 4 times in a normal match loses money. At least, I'm pretty sure he does. With my BPO, I can die infinite number and still make money. But my gear is STD.
I am the Horseless Headsman.
Director and COO of We Who Walk Alone
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Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
75
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Posted - 2013.11.15 07:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
HYENAKILLER X wrote:Risk is irrelevant here. The notion that risk is a defining factor over experiencing the fullness of the game is rediculous. Thinking about the isk you are losing...while losing a match/diminishedkdr/win loss% is redundant. This game is a competition and incorporating an economy that not only detracts from the over all ecperience but hinders it is pointless. People play to win in any other game. People play for isk here. That seems right to you guys?
Risk IS relevant, though. I play this game, because I like the risk involved, the challenge of finding a way to stay in the green. If I wanted to play a game with no risk in dying, I'd play COD or Battlefield. Yes, this game is a competition, every game is. But this competition is not about who makes the most money, but who can make the most money while losing some. If you're playing this game JUST to make money, then you're doing it WRONG. Plain and simple. The fullness of this game IS the risk in battle. And protostomping is driving new players away before they can even find a good corp to join. How will making proto gear FREE help with that?
I am the Horseless Headsman.
Director and COO of We Who Walk Alone
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Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
75
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Posted - 2013.11.15 07:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:This is why I think they are getting rid of the BPOs eventually. To stimulate the economy, possibly. While you might not agree with HyenaKiller and his ideas, the basis of his point is true. There is stagnation. The community is partly to blame for it. Things need to be shaken up a bit. It's like everyone is going to their assigned seats. There's no significant changing of the guard besides "elite" corporations forming and disbanding. Other than that, nothing much happens.
I agree that his logic is sound, but his conclusion is flawed. This would create a bigger gap between the elite corps and alliances and those like We Who Walk Alone (among others).
I am the Horseless Headsman.
Director and COO of We Who Walk Alone
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Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
77
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Posted - 2013.11.15 07:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
HYENAKILLER X wrote:SoTarian PoParrazi wrote:HYENAKILLER X wrote:Risk is irrelevant here. The notion that risk is a defining factor over experiencing the fullness of the game is rediculous. Thinking about the isk you are losing...while losing a match/diminishedkdr/win loss% is redundant. This game is a competition and incorporating an economy that not only detracts from the over all ecperience but hinders it is pointless. People play to win in any other game. People play for isk here. That seems right to you guys? You're trying to make Dust into CoD where there's no risk to your stuff. We understand you're just trying to make life easier for the little guy - but it's not going to happen at the cost of the only really interesting part of this game - risk vs reward. Not to mention BPO Proto is very very close to Pay to Win. You cant pay to win here. And last I checked cod wasnt doing to shabby. Think about all the the options this game is going to have. Think about the timeframe in which an average player will acheive everything presented to him. Reliance on isk alone is a detriment. It is a fundimental flaw. Average dust experience: hanging in there pubstomp after pub stomp joining corps that dont last or cant afford pc or even defend if they could basically having to compensate by specing into different fotm to pass time and spice things up. This game (even with boosters) has a very long time line. With the fact that you cant really do all the things with suits you wait for ever to get that you cant use all the time anyways is a flawed concept.
And making proto gear free will fix that? COD is doing well because it's using a tried and true formula: You buy the game FIRST. This is a free to play shooter. I can't think of another shooter that is free. Most others are RPG's. BPO's costed Aurum, which is equivilant to real money. Having top-tier gear for real money, if not pay to win, is really close.
I am the Horseless Headsman.
Director and COO of We Who Walk Alone
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Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
78
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Posted - 2013.11.15 08:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Hyena, with all due respect, will you quit this? You just used the protostomp argument to endorse FREE proto suit? What have you been smoking, mate? Free proto suits will make protostompers more confident, and make new players getting protostomped less likely to play this game. Have you ever played DCUO? Classic example of your idea. You can get to T3 gear for free. For the sake of argument, that's ADV. Then you have to buy either a subscription (which I did) or a DLC to go to T4. That would be Proto, for those keeping track. That equals pay to win. It's the same with PvP gear, in case you're wondering. In your case, you spend Aurum (real money) to save MILLIONS of Isk. The only way this would even be fair is if these BPO's were insanely expensive, like 1000000 Aurum, which is... insane. No one in their right minds would get these BPO's of they were that much, and if they were proportionally cheaper, as in equal in proportional price to the Aurum BPO STD suits as the Isk STD suits (13K Aurum for a STD BPO suit, btw) they would break this game. Since I am beyond STD, even if they got rid of the BPO's, I would not care, but BPO proto is... crazy.
I am the Horseless Headsman.
Director and COO of We Who Walk Alone
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Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
79
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Posted - 2013.11.15 08:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:HYENAKILLER X wrote:I dont know about anyone else but this is my first fps online multiplayer. Now im nothing special but I am hardcore about competition.
The player market means absolutely nothing if I dont have salvage or isk. How does the player market keep you competitive?
Why do I care about a player market when in the 6 months ive been here I havent pc'd 1 time?
How is it that having less for long periods of time against better equipped, better skilled Is a "draw"? You mean to tell me ccp is actially selling that verbetum? Ide say no they are not.
The reality is if cod and bf4 were so awesome dust would be gone. But they arent and dust is here. But I can download a "shop keeper" app for my phone somewhere if I wanted a sales game. I dont. I want to shoot people and take territories and be part of epic battles.
give me more for my time. Give me more fore my money. Give me a competitive shot. As an individual give me access to everything. Let me earn victory, not isk.
There is no way in hell bpo proto is pay to win. If anything in this game it levels the playing feild. That doesnt scare me at all.
answer to your question: call of duty is your type of game, do not try to make dust 514 a game everyone will abandon because you don't understand why its core concepts make it unique. go play call of duty, youl have a better time there since everything is free and everyone has access to all weapons like its nothing (it really is nothing). if your anti-war then what the **** are you doing here? and if youv never even played in 1 pc battle, nobody here will take you remotely seriously.
That anti-war comment... I'm anti-war. I play COD... sometimes. Just so you know....
Anyways, this game is more fun to me because of the risk/reward thing. Hyena, this is New Eden, a galaxy of opportunity, wealth, destruction and death. We die, we lose our gear, that is the risk. We shoot that guy in front of us in the face and they die, we get a reward for it. If it's a proto, we just costed them AT LEAST 250K. And that's profit for us, because it's loss for them. If proto were BPO's, if they were free, where is our extra effort award?
I am the Horseless Headsman.
Director and COO of We Who Walk Alone
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Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
79
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Posted - 2013.11.15 09:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
HYENAKILLER X wrote:Take me seriously? Find me on the battlefeild alone and not take me seriously.
The reality of your comments are that they are not applicable. What advantage is there in having to budget your fights when your goal and core game experience is supposed to be join a corp, purchase districts, defend yours and take others but 70% of your player base simply (&barely gets by) budgetting suits?
If isk is going to basically be thee core focus I want more from it. Everyone wants more from it. Is dust really teaching me to do more, and worry more but get less and do less with my time and money?
And why would bpos of protos have to be insanely expensive? Look at how much isk pc's are. Does that solve anything? Does that increase value of it on any level? 70% of the player base wouldnt know. Costs to much. The other 30% is clearly mixed.
I want you to think about 1 thing. With all the money you can spend on this game, why is isk the deciding factor in the end.
You can yell skill all you want. You can yell risk all you want. Chant market and hyena sucks balls. But why cant I get more from my time. Why doesnt my money have more options. Does going without really contribute. Does additional vurdens and alternate focus create a better game experience than if they wetent there?
Whose prefference ate we ultimately embracing? We are embracing the preference of people who want a DIFFERENT style of FPS. The advantage of budgeting your fights is that, if it were real and we had this technology in the real world, we'd lose our gear. BPO's are blueprints, things we can make items with. That is the reality here. That is why BPO's are infinite. And besides, you never answered my question. How would making proto gear free reduce protostomps? I know for a fact if they were free I'd use them, I'd join the protostomp brigade. As would nearly everyone who has made it to proto level.
EDIT: HYENA, what do you use in combat? I'm just wondering if you've tried protostomping and lost money....
I am the Horseless Headsman.
Director and COO of We Who Walk Alone
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Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
80
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Posted - 2013.11.15 09:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
HYENAKILLER X wrote:Im no champ but if you ask players theyll tell you im decent.
Bpos for proto gear is killing 3 birds with 1 stone. First by leveling the playing feild by taking isk out of the equation. Secondly that isk can go towards districts and corps where the true end game is. Third, do you really care if everyone has proto? Isnt that the purest expression this game offers? Shouldnt " taking a knee" be an option?
We will merge with eve eventually. What if we want ships? Is the answer really hoing to be tough s*** buy a suit?
Why not promote individual district ownership and be part of an optional collective state based on race with defence assistance. Something more for isk and aurum?
And I dont make money going proto, but I dont get stomped either.
You want a ship? Play EVE. Do I care if everyone has proto? No. Do I care that everyone has proto with no risk of losing ANYTHING? Yes. PC is NOT the only endgame this game will have. There is the changes to FW, PvE, etc. Individual district ownership will be possible eventually, but that is WAY in the future. And "leveling the playing field" is counter-intuitive. CCP has stated in the past "PvP is inherently unbalanced". If I'm better than the guy shooting at me, I want him to fear dying. Your statement removes that. And you STILL haven't answered my question. The new people can't use these BPO's because they do not have the SP. How will that help even the playing field?
I am the Horseless Headsman.
Director and COO of We Who Walk Alone
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