According to this guy, shotguns aren't "heavy" enough.

I can kick butt in a militia Minmatar scout with a militia shotgun.

Most times it doesn't work but in maps where there are ridiculously tight corners and confined spaces I just jump into the fray and let loose. Usually die in about 2 seconds but sometmes I nail a protobear.

Also I can 1-shot equipment like a boss now.

But yeah, shotguns aren't too bad it's the fact that scanners win EWAR hands down with no exceptions.

HK4M, apply directly to forehead, HK4M

Contact your local war dealer today.

Raising prof on and stacking x amount on ARS and SCRS give them a dps that can dwarf shotguns

The dps of the above stated weapons quickly surpass the damage of the first shotgun blast and can finish most suits before the second shot is fired. Stacking dmg mods on shotguns do not yield a similar ttk. Shotguns need to buffed in this regard as the only consistent 0hk is a headshot.

I think the hit detection, ttk and the constant awareness cheap wallhacks provided by active scanners all give people enough defenses to where if a modded shotgun comes up to you and does 1000 damage it is acceptable. What would really be so bad about that?

I love my Dren SG and can drop most heavies in 3 hits. I proved that today time and time again. I think the problem is most are trying to stay at a distance with a SG, no you have to get in there and Shove it up there A** Thats how you use the SG

I love my Dren SG and can drop most heavies in 3 hits. I proved that today time and time again. I think the problem is most are trying to stay at a distance with a SG, no you have to get in there and Shove it up there A** Thats how you use the SG

+1 for Shotgun Buff to damage and range.
SG damage output hasn't kept pace with Uprising's ever-increasing eHP.

(Shotgun Operation V, Proficiency V)

yes I think it needs to be effective 10m

With nerfs to strafing and speed tanking, its really difficult at times to close what in all honesty is an arbitrary difference of space when being peppered with fire that quickly totals over 400 dps.

120% at dry-hump range

I'd like more range with the thing.

It had to be said
I was wondering who would be the first
+1

The shotgun is at its strongest now that its been for a while, and I'm able to two shot kill most peeps, using a militia at the perfect distance with a headshot you can register around 450-500 damage.

I know this because I literally only took one shot in a game, got one kill, heard the headshot noise, and the match ended. Seems sufficient to me, doesn't mean it doesn't deserve a buff, but its definitely usable.

DPS isn't everything.
The shotgun relies on Alpha.

Imagine an assault rifle rhat does 1000 damage but has 0.3 bullets per second fire rate.
DPS would be 333, but you wouldn't call it underpowered would you?
Anyway, buff shotty range, it does enough damage.

But seriously, in what world does a shotgun need two shots to kill infantry in it's optimal range. It's a shotgun for crying out loud. Stopping power is it's middle name. Right now, the shotty only has stumbling power.

Also, I shouldn't have to get headshots with a shotty at point blank to kill someone. Source: IT'S A FREAKING SHOTGUN

Got shot in the face by exmaple core today. It hurt but I walked away and he didn't I am an ar, 3 damaged modded, armor heavy logi and I need to die more often than I do. I can stomp any suit. I can scan, blow stuff up, replenish, and be right back in the fight for myself in no time.

I endorse shotguns being a tad better.

Cause maple should have killed me. For realz.

Your problems could be that you have been spoiled and used to the high dps and long range shotguns from chromosome that you find the current shotguns UP.

there is no reason to get proto shotguns, one of the fundamental problems with shotguns is that the proto ones are not noticebly stronger than the CRG/K5.




Are you saying ARS and SCRS with dmg mods dont zap that 800hp faster? When I think of the damage potential all these others weapons have, and how even the milita variants can unleash similar damage I am not seeing whats so bad about OHK shotguns? Your basically being killed in the span of time by a scrambler

One way to increase shotgun damage output would be to change the profiency to 3% damage per level instead of the existing 3% to rate of fire per level. Use the original shotgun profiency the 3 percent faster rof per level as a shotgun skill in the exact same way as the gallente ar and minmatar smg have sharpshooter.

I think this solution would help immensely even a further 10% damage increase on top of what i have previously mentioned would be a 25% damage increase with profiency 5, which will help alot with the shotgun catching up to other weapons dps wise and the hit point increase.

...

My Duvolle with three damage mods surely zaps one faster than my standard shotgun. I wonder how the proto shotgun with three damage mods would do? Proto shotgun would in one shot do 39,6*12*1,25=594, the breach would do 47,5*12*1,25=712. Not that many have more than 712 if they are running damage mods. And two shots is enough to take down most heavies.

The scout using Allotek Breack without damage mods would do 47,5*12=570, with the surprise on your side, you should be able to pull off two shots with a total damage of 1140. How many would survive this?!? The scout are skinny and should only engange when you have the surprise moment on your side, the opponent has to be extremely skilled with quick reflexes to get away within 1 second from being hit by the first shot before the second shot impacts. Getting a headshot with the shotgun would deal much more damage.

The issue with the proto shotgun's damage is that, while an AR or ScR user can easily sacrifice HP and then hang back to deal damage from a distance, a shotgun MUST close the gap and engage directly. When you are against prototype gear, that is never an easy task.

With the Breach dealing 712 HP of damage with two damage mods, that is lower than it should be. Even with proficiency it takes a long time to fire two Breach SG rounds, more than enough time for an AR to kill you with the small amount of health they have remaining. For the CreoDron, it takes 3 damage mods just to get it to 600 damage, that is a huge eHP sacrifice, and you still have to get within 4m to even do that much damage. If you have even one shot that is just slightly off, or the enemy manages to create some distance, you are already going to need at least 3 shots to kill.

Also, only a Medium suit can even fit 3 DMs on a proto SG, the scout Gk.0 only has one high and the Mk.0 would either run out of CPU or die to about two Duvolle bullets.

I cannot speak for the proto shotgun, only for the basic and advanced, have used plenty of aur advanced shotguns. I do better with the advanced than the basic, not by a large margin but it somehow gets me more kills without having to switch to my sidearm.

I have prof 3 in AR and have been able to test the difference between the shotgun and AR plenty of times with the black hawk scout suit. Also have two dragonfly suits setup with the Exile and basic shotgun. I have better success using the shotgun sneaking up behind red dots than using the AR. I get the kill faster with the shotgun than the AR, with the shotgun I can walk away without a scratch in most encounters while I often have do some jumping and strafing with the AR getting hit in return.

Even with my much larger amount of SP spend in AR, I still find the shotgun better WHEN I have the surprise moment. Do I encounter someone head-on I prefer the AR as the opponent will backpedal fast and get out of the shotguns optimal range.

My Duvolle with three damage mods surely zaps one faster than my standard shotgun. I wonder how the proto shotgun with three damage mods would do? Proto shotgun would in one shot do 39,6*12*1,25=594, the breach would do 47,5*12*1,25=712. Not that many have more than 712 if they are running damage mods. And two shots is enough to take down most heavies.

The scout using Allotek Breack without damage mods would do 47,5*12=570, with the surprise on your side, you should be able to pull off two shots with a total damage of 1140. How many would survive this?!? The scout are skinny and should only engange when you have the surprise moment on your side, the opponent has to be extremely skilled with quick reflexes to get away within 1 second from being hit by the first shot before the second shot impacts. Getting a headshot with the shotgun would deal much more damage.

I don't want to rain on your parade but who said anything about getting a second shot off; i'm finding that you get gunned down most of the time before you can get a second shot off and that's sneaking up behind them. Here's another example if you bump into a redberry wielding an ar in a door way unless you get a head shot your dead, you get your first shot off they return fire you die and they have 100-200 armour left.

Odd, I nearly always get a second shot off when I have sneaked up on a red berry, that is if they survive the first hit by my breach shotgun aimed at their heads. Only heavy tanked Gallente seems to need a seond shot to get through their thick armor skin.
And about jumping into a doorway where one or several red dots are pointing their ARs ready to shoot at a skinny scout is suicide. I would never do that, leave this to frontline assaults that has the armor to survive the fire returned from inside the door. Move around the building and take them from behind.

I think they need to create several scout classes, one that suits your need, an extremely quick and high dps role. And another scout role similar to what we have in the Gallente for the stealthy ewar type of role. I start to see the problem being different opinions about the scout role, one with your view for a hunter role common in many games, light armored with high damage. And another whom prefer the stealthy utility type which gathers intel, sneaks behind enenmy lines, hacks stuff and backstabs high ranked generals. etc.

there is no reason to get proto shotguns, one of the fundamental problems with shotguns is that the proto ones are not that better than the CRG/K5.




Are you saying SCRS with dmg mods dont zap that hp faster? When I think of the damage potential all these others weapons have, and how even the milita variants can unleash similar damage I am not seeing whats so bad about OHK shotguns? Your basically being killed in the span of time by a scrambler

I don't think SG should be OHKing anything above their own tier level. I just find that they fall short against similar gear, and sometimes against lower level gear.

The issue with your scenarios is that neither of those situations are usually achievable by a medium frame. Yes, if SG damage was to be increased, a medium frame with DMs would be able to deal a lot of damage, but they would still have to get withing 5m to get the chance. Getting that close both undetected and unscathed is extremely difficult for any medium frame suit, especially in a PRO vs. PRO environment. Medium suits cannot dampen efficiently, and they cannot reliably speed tank. Getting in close is hard enough as it is.

For the scouts, they don't apply damage wise. You are still assuming that the SG will be able to 2HK from behind, but with a scout's limited fitting, that very likely won't be the case. For the second, I agree that it isn't how a scout should be getting most of their kills, but it still should be a matter of getting 2 shots off, as 3 is obscenely difficult in most situations.

The Gallente is definitely much better than the Minmatar at this. I don't think that issue is with the weapon, it is the suit itself that needs readjustment. The Gallente is already difficult to reliably kill with the SG, only a select few are able to consistently pull it off. I can't really give much of a verdict on scouts, as I am just recently starting to skill into a Gal scout, as I am tired of trying to make the Min Ass a viable shotgun suit.

Sorry for the double post, wanted to give a quick response to this.

As you said, you haven't had the chance to run Proto shotguns. From this, I take it you haven't used them in a completely Proto environment, like PC.

Believe me, in PC, shotguns do not OHK anyone. That is the perspective I'm making my observations from.

DEZKA DIABLO, I agree.

Something that could solve this, and many armor tankers have been saying this since last year is to make the bio enhancement modules for the highslots. It's a damn Gallente Support module for crying out loud besides damage mods armor tanks don't have anything to put on their highslots outside of using that peasant shielding.

The proto Gallente scout only have 1 high slot and will not be able to use bio modules if they are for the highslots

I think that will only affect the Gallente Scouts (scouts in general) who stack kinetic kats. at the start of the game to get to the objective first.

Outside of that there won't be anything too dramatic for scouts (or at least for the way I use them which is the primitive eWarfare system we have now)

I totally agree, speed shotgunning in weak suits needs to be what it was, BUT a guy in a caldari assault can run over 9.18 with 700 HP an still pack awesome meta 7 gear, scouts run slower with HALF the HP, which would make med frames extremely dangerous an almost ftom if shottys get that power, imagine a swarm of caldari assaults with ohk shotguns an proto smgs, core nades, scanners an an proto hives!

A squad of that with a bezerker speed heavy sg/ smg,hold the whole city .

I agree 100% but I think if they increased range an halved the ROF you would have what you want , an it would stay with true shot gunners not get the FTOM nerf a month later.

lolno. Biotic Modules belong in the low slots. They are the infantry version of afterburners and capacitor expanders. Speed vs Armor is the trade off for Gallente, and the rest of the races to an extent. Damage mods and armor tanking go hand in hand like a Thorax with Blaster Turrets

And although I think the Shotgun needs a serious range buff, probably doubling the optimal range** and decreasing its incredibly steep falloff I'd like to point out one thing to the OP.

Minmatar suits are not for CQC. As far as notable Minmatar Assault Shotgunners go, Oha-Yo and Dengru are up there in fame. But my Gallente Scout will always be infinitely better at CQC than your Minmatar suit.
CQC people were drawn in by their base speed, but that really doesn't help.

Just read the thread instead of being blithe.