DUST Search - Gallente is the best race (right now) and here's why.

Ecshon Autorez wrote:

Vyzion Eyri wrote:

OP raises an interesting point. If OP believes that hiding from scanners is a big deal, surely others do too. Which inversely means there are people who trust their scanners too much.

mhm. That's exactly the point. I've been able to walk straight at enemies (but with obstacles blocking view) and since I didn't appear on scanners they had no idea I was there and took way to long to figure out where I was shooting from.

I also once hid in a niche in a wall as 1 heavy, 2 logis, 3 infantry and a tank walked by (*Edit: It was Domination and I was right next to the objective*). One of them turned to the point I'm fairly certain I was visible in the corner of his screen, but I guess he didn't notice.

Now, I don't know what the stacking penalties are, but I can tell you that when using this fitting I have never once been successfully scanned. So it might not be working in theory but it definitely works in practice. Too bad you can't check what scanner someone is using.

I've only got profile dampening to level 2 so that's an additional 4% reduction. Not much but maybe that's compensating for my "bad math" and not knowing about stacking penalties.

*checks Dust wiki*

So I went and checked the Dust wiki and used the stacking calculator that they've got. Using two 15% dampeners the bonus is 29.99% Stacking calculator

I did the math using the formula they give Down at "calculating scan profile"

Quote:

Sp GÇô (Sp*Ds) GÇô (Sp*Dm) Where:
Sp = Scan Profile,
Ds = Dampening Skill % efficacy,
and Dm = Dampener Module % efficacy.

And I got 33.005 dB as the new dropsuit signature (using my dampening skill). That's still low enough to only be detectable using PRO scanners.

That was done with my assumption that skills do not affect (or are affected by) stacking penalties.

If skills are also affected then the new signature would be 33.865 dB. But considering the example they give

Quote:

Consequently, at lvl 2 Profile Dampening with a Basic Profile Dampener module you get:
Sp GÇô (Sp*0.04) GÇô (Sp*0.15)

and that no one here has been saying that skills are affected by stacking, I think it's safe to assume that they aren't.

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Ecshon Autorez Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 109	Posted - 2013.11.02 04:49:00 - [1] - Quote You get BPOs of Gallente medium frames (starter fits) just by being a Gallente. These things are the BANE of active scanners. Fit: 2 MLT profile dampeners (BPO) 1 other module of your choice (yes, it can be another dampener) (preferably BPO) and your weapons/equipment of choice (preferably BPO) They start spamming active scanners, perma-scanning everything? Just equip this and wreak havoc. They'll need PROTOTYPE active scanners to be able to detect you in this fitting. (they'll need the Duvolle Focused Active Scanner (15dB precision) if you equip all 3 modules as MLT level profile dampeners, and this is without skills) Since it's all BPO you don't need to worry about losing any isk off it, and since it's all MLT (mine is) you don't need to skill into it, meaning that you can spend all your SP on the stuff you actually want. (hooray Logibro!) Now, GO FORTH!! DESTROY THE ACTIVE SCANNER USERS!
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 1361	Posted - 2013.11.02 05:00:00 - [2] - Quote You're doing the math way wrong, but whatever 'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 4447	Posted - 2013.11.02 05:01:00 - [3] - Quote You mean there's a counter to the active scanner?! WHO THE **** WOULD'VE THOUGHT!! Too bad most of the scout QQ on these forums are about trying to fit brick tanks on light frames. Never forget Level 4 Forum Warrior King of airborne swine.
Protocake JR Spyders Inc. 880	Posted - 2013.11.02 05:02:00 - [4] - Quote Who cares if no one can see your militia/starter fit?
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 1361	Posted - 2013.11.02 05:08:00 - [5] - Quote TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote: You mean there's a counter to the active scanner?! WHO THE **** WOULD'VE THOUGHT!! Too bad most of the scout QQ on these forums are about trying to fit brick tanks on light frames. Like I said, he did the math wrong. Plus, with a CRG-3, Toxin, and a Adv. Scanner I can't even fit a adv. dampener on my Scout fit (note: This is a adv. Scout). 'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!
Ecshon Autorez Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 109	Posted - 2013.11.02 05:12:00 - [6] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: You're doing the math way wrong, but whatever The Profile dampeners reduce the profile by a %. One MLT profile dampener gives a 15% reduction. So if you equip 2 of them that's 30%. (they don't have a stacking penalty) The BPO you get has a 50 dB signature. What is 30% of 50? 15. 50 - 15 = 35. You now have 35 dB signature. ADV Active scanner has a 36 dB scan precision , that's one too high. PRO Active scanner has 28 db precision and the Duvolle Focused has 15 dB. Where is my math wrong? (I really would like to know if I'm wrong :P)
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1323	Posted - 2013.11.02 05:14:00 - [7] - Quote You are a idiot.
Ecshon Autorez Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 109	Posted - 2013.11.02 05:14:00 - [8] - Quote Protocake JR wrote: Who cares if no one can see your militia/starter fit? Because you can sneak up behind them and kill their players holding the scanners. Or just sneak past all together and cap an objective on the other side of the map while their busy massacring your team.
Aseair The Immortal 514 8	Posted - 2013.11.02 05:14:00 - [9] - Quote As far as this is concerned, here is some help with the math, using a Scout suit as an example because I can't remember what the profile of a medium suit is right now. A Scout suit has a standard profile of 45. The MLT Profile Dampener reduces your profile by 15%, so you would multiply the profile by .85 (1 minus 15% or .15). So, using one module, it would look like this: 45 x .85 = 38.25 Now, these modules also have a stacking penalty (.15 x .869), so when you add on the second module, you take this new profile (38.25) and multiply it by the reduced benefit of the second module: 38.25 x (1 - (.15 x .869)) = 33.26 So, to sum this up, you could only avoid advanced scanners with this setup even on a scout suit. Not trying to be rude or anything, thank you for sharing what may have been a good idea. Keep them coming if you find anything else! Just make sure you do the math first Memento vos sunt immortales
DeadlyAztec11 Gallente Federation 2348	Posted - 2013.11.02 05:19:00 - [10] - Quote Ecshon Autorez wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: You're doing the math way wrong, but whatever The Profile dampeners reduce the profile by a %. One MLT profile dampener gives a 15% reduction. So if you equip 2 of them that's 30%. (they don't have a stacking penalty) The BPO you get has a 50 dB signature. What is 30% of 50? 15. 50 - 15 = 35. You now have 35 dB signature. ADV Active scanner has a 36 dB scan precision , that's one too high. PRO Active scanner has 28 db precision and the Duvolle Focused has 15 dB. Where is my math wrong? (I really would like to know if I'm wrong :P) My man! Of you are in Villore Sec Ops, you are my brother! "It's because of people like you that I became this. And you'll never give me a reason to become someone else."

Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 984	Posted - 2013.11.02 05:19:00 - [11] - Quote I could always just look straight at you since SV got taken I tend to rely on sound and sight more. "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
Ecshon Autorez Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 110	Posted - 2013.11.02 05:21:00 - [12] - Quote AseairNow wrote: these modules also have a stacking penalty If you check in game they don't say anything about having a stacking penalty. I did it my way and then did it your way using your example (scout suit). Using one module you got 38.25 AseairNow wrote: it would look like this: 45 x .85 = 38.25 Using one module i got 38.3 They seem close enough, don't you think?
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 536	Posted - 2013.11.02 05:21:00 - [13] - Quote They do have stacking penalties Assuming you have lvl 5 Dampening, your profile would be something like: 50 * 0.9 * (1 - 0.85) * ( 1 - 0.85 0.86 ) = 33.3 50 0.9 * (1 - 0.85) * ( 1 - 0.85 0.86 ) ( 1 - 0.85 * 0.56) = 30.5 Edit: Even though the game doesn't mention it, they do. There have been numerous tests over it and I believe a Dev even confirmed it recently.
Ecshon Autorez Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 110	Posted - 2013.11.02 05:28:00 - [14] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: They do have stacking penalties Assuming you have lvl 5 Dampening, your profile would be something like: 50 * 0.9 * (1 - 0.85) * ( 1 - 0.85 0.86 ) = 33.3 50 0.9 * (1 - 0.85) * ( 1 - 0.85 0.86 ) ( 1 - 0.85 * 0.56) = 30.5 Edit: Even though the game doesn't mention it, they do. There have been numerous tests over it and I believe a Dev even confirmed it recently. So that's the math you guys used, huh? I did 50 * .15 (15% in decimal form) = the number I subtract from 50 to get my new signature. (when using one module) and 50 * .30 (.15+.15 or 15%+15%) = the number I subtract from 50 to get my new signature. (for 2 modules)
Kasote Denzara A Vulture 641	Posted - 2013.11.02 05:30:00 - [15] - Quote Gallenteans are the best for we fight for freedom! I go commando in my Commando. Feels good, man.
Ecshon Autorez Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 110	Posted - 2013.11.02 05:35:00 - [16] - Quote Also, where do you guys keep coming up with that it has stacking penalties? It says it in the in-game item description if an item has stacking penalties and it doesn't on these. 'Tether' Complex Shield Regulator wrote: Reduces the length of the delay before shield recharge begins. NOTE: Stacking penalties apply to this module; the effectiveness of each additional module (after the first) that alters the same attributes will be reduced. Complex Profile Dampener wrote: Decreases drospuit's scan profile making it harder to detect by scanning systems.
Assert Dominance MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 420	Posted - 2013.11.02 06:38:00 - [17] - Quote All militia fit with dampeners. oh dam, watch out for this guy on the battlefield. Edit: btw, dampeners do get stacking penalty. GM confirmed it. Put glaze on that bun.
Aqua-Regia 503	Posted - 2013.11.02 06:48:00 - [18] - Quote I wake up to find pc on and the first thing I get after reloading the page is this **. Why do people come up with the most up with free fitting that making this game isk payout so low. Only dampeners my god you poor ass player. GòöGòºGòºGòºGòºGòºGòºGòùGöÉGòôBPO / BPC Collector Gòû Gòó SoonGäó** GòáGò¬Gò¬GòºGòñGòñGò¬GòñGòºGòºGòñGòªGò¬GòñGò¬GòªGòºGò¼GòínoneGòPGûá GòÜGòñGòñGòñGòñGòñGòñGò¥Dust 514 GòPGò¢§GòÆGòú00GòáGòòGòÜGòí00GòPGò¢
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 537	Posted - 2013.11.02 06:48:00 - [19] - Quote Ecshon Autorez wrote: Also, where do you guys keep coming up with that it has stacking penalties? It says it in the in-game item description if an item has stacking penalties and it doesn't on these. As I said, through the tests conducted by many people. And as of a few days ago, there is this Galante scouts GM Scotsman wrote: FYI... Precision Enhancers, Profile Dampeners and Range Amplifiers all incur stacking penalties. I appreciate that not all modules mention this in the description field of the information box, but this is something being looked at.
Chad Michael Murray NECROM0NGERS 128	Posted - 2013.11.02 07:46:00 - [20] - Quote Without all the math you could have just said "They're not Caldari!" /thread

Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1719	Posted - 2013.11.02 08:05:00 - [21] - Quote OP raises an interesting point. If OP believes that hiding from scanners is a big deal, surely others do too. Which inversely means there are people who trust their scanners too much. I know I rarely check these days to see if there has been some margin of error or not. EWAR is getting interesting. This reliance on scanners could people dropping their situational awareness and trusting whatever the scanner displays... we need some decoy equipment. > "I will show you fear in a handful of dust." T.S. Eliot, The Wasteland
Ecshon Autorez Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 111	Posted - 2013.11.02 17:08:00 - [22] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: OP raises an interesting point. If OP believes that hiding from scanners is a big deal, surely others do too. Which inversely means there are people who trust their scanners too much. mhm. That's exactly the point. I've been able to walk straight at enemies (but with obstacles blocking view) and since I didn't appear on scanners they had no idea I was there and took way to long to figure out where I was shooting from. I also once hid in a niche in a wall as 1 heavy, 2 logis, 3 infantry and a tank walked by (Edit: It was Domination and I was right next to the objective). One of them turned to the point I'm fairly certain I was visible in the corner of his screen, but I guess he didn't notice. Now, I don't know what the stacking penalties are, but I can tell you that when using this fitting I have never once been successfully scanned. So it might not be working in theory but it definitely works in practice. Too bad you can't check what scanner someone is using. I've only got profile dampening to level 2 so that's an additional 4% reduction. Not much but maybe that's compensating for my "bad math" and not knowing about stacking penalties. checks Dust wiki So I went and checked the Dust wiki and used the stacking calculator that they've got. Using two 15% dampeners the bonus is 29.99% Stacking calculator I did the math using the formula they give Down at "calculating scan profile" Quote: Sp GÇô (SpDs) GÇô (SpDm) Where: Sp = Scan Profile, Ds = Dampening Skill % efficacy, and Dm = Dampener Module % efficacy. And I got 33.005 dB as the new dropsuit signature (using my dampening skill). That's still low enough to only be detectable using PRO scanners. That was done with my assumption that skills do not affect (or are affected by) stacking penalties. If skills are also affected then the new signature would be 33.865 dB. But considering the example they give Quote: Consequently, at lvl 2 Profile Dampening with a Basic Profile Dampener module you get: Sp GÇô (Sp0.04) GÇô (Sp0.15) and that no one here has been saying that skills are affected by stacking, I think it's safe to assume that they aren't.
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 1368	Posted - 2013.11.02 17:18:00 - [23] - Quote Ecshon Autorez wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: OP raises an interesting point. If OP believes that hiding from scanners is a big deal, surely others do too. Which inversely means there are people who trust their scanners too much. mhm. That's exactly the point. I've been able to walk straight at enemies (but with obstacles blocking view) and since I didn't appear on scanners they had no idea I was there and took way to long to figure out where I was shooting from. I also once hid in a niche in a wall as 1 heavy, 2 logis, 3 infantry and a tank walked by (Edit: It was Domination and I was right next to the objective). One of them turned to the point I'm fairly certain I was visible in the corner of his screen, but I guess he didn't notice. Now, I don't know what the stacking penalties are, but I can tell you that when using this fitting I have never once been successfully scanned. So it might not be working in theory but it definitely works in practice. Too bad you can't check what scanner someone is using. I've only got profile dampening to level 2 so that's an additional 4% reduction. Not much but maybe that's compensating for my "bad math" and not knowing about stacking penalties. checks Dust wiki So I went and checked the Dust wiki and used the stacking calculator that they've got. Using two 15% dampeners the bonus is 29.99% Stacking calculator I did the math using the formula they give Down at "calculating scan profile" Quote: Sp GÇô (SpDs) GÇô (SpDm) Where: Sp = Scan Profile, Ds = Dampening Skill % efficacy, and Dm = Dampener Module % efficacy. And I got 33.005 dB as the new dropsuit signature (using my dampening skill). That's still low enough to only be detectable using PRO scanners. That was done with my assumption that skills do not affect (or are affected by) stacking penalties. If skills are also affected then the new signature would be 33.865 dB. But considering the example they give Quote: Consequently, at lvl 2 Profile Dampening with a Basic Profile Dampener module you get: Sp GÇô (Sp0.04) GÇô (Sp0.15) and that no one here has been saying that skills are affected by stacking, I think it's safe to assume that they aren't. I know it's not above STD. 'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!
Ecshon Autorez Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 111	Posted - 2013.11.02 17:51:00 - [24] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: I know it's not above STD. Above? lowest number wins, not highest, but I understand what you're getting at. If your on right now we can go and do some tests if you want. I'll stand on one side of a wall, you'll stand on the other (so visual scan doesn't affect) then you can try scanning me using various level scanners. Like I said, using their formula and their calculator the results are: (first I'll list off active scanner precisions) STD: 46 dB precision 'Eclipse': 36 dB precision ADV: 36 dB precision PRO: 28 dB precision Duvolle Focused Active Scanner: 15 dB precision I'll be using level 0 Profile Dampening on the Gallente Frontline starter fit frame (base is 50 dB) 1 MLT profile dampener: 42.5 dB \| detectable by 'Eclipse' and better 2 MLT profile dampeners: 35.005 dB \| detectable by PRO and better (beats the ADV by .995 dB) 3 MLT profile dampeners: 29.44 dB \| detectable by PRO and better Now I'll use level 2 Profile Dampening on the Gallente Frontline starter fit frame (base is 50 dB) 1 MLT profile dampener: 40.5 dB \| detectable by 'Eclipse and better 2 MLT profile dampeners: 33.005 dB \| detectable by PRO and better 3 MLT profile dampeners: 27.44 dB \| detectable by Duvolle Focused Active Scanner only (beats PRO by .56 dB)
Ecshon Autorez Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 111	Posted - 2013.11.02 17:54:00 - [25] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: also, you got a 28.05%, not 29.99%. >.> noooooooo.... type Quote: 15, 15 into the text box and hit Calculate Bonus.
Robocop Junior The Surrogates Of War 314	Posted - 2013.11.02 18:00:00 - [26] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: You are a idiot. You are AN idiot. Sorry, had to be done.
Rowdy Railgunner native warlords 93	Posted - 2013.11.02 18:05:00 - [27] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: OP raises an interesting point. If OP believes that hiding from scanners is a big deal, surely others do too. Which inversely means there are people who trust their scanners too much. I know I rarely check these days to see if there has been some margin of error or not. EWAR is getting interesting. This reliance on scanners could people dropping their situational awareness and trusting whatever the scanner displays... we need some decoy equipment. How would you do it though? Like in Halo where you send out a hologram of yourself? Or like in COD where you can throw a decoy to ping the scanners? I like both ideas my self.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 954	Posted - 2013.11.02 18:07:00 - [28] - Quote Ecshon Autorez wrote: So that's the math you guys used, huh? Just to be clear: that's not the math we use. It's the math the game uses. It's been figured out experimentally. Even if the results are similar, it's best to be accurate. You could think some combination of modules puts you in the clear based on your math, when it really doesn't in game by some tenths of a point. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûôGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 0 (900/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
Ecshon Autorez Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 111	Posted - 2013.11.02 18:15:00 - [29] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: ED: I'd suggest using the DUST514 Fitting Tool for things like this. The tool's math and stats are solid, and it gets updated fairly frequently with new discoveries about how the stat math works. (It accurately models stacking penalties on dampeners, even though they aren't mentioned as having penalties in game.) Oooooh! Found it! Hadn't heard of it till now, thanks. Too bad it doesn't seem to have a spot to put skills.
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic Top Men. 227	Posted - 2013.11.02 18:21:00 - [30] - Quote Rowdy Railgunner wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: OP raises an interesting point. If OP believes that hiding from scanners is a big deal, surely others do too. Which inversely means there are people who trust their scanners too much. I know I rarely check these days to see if there has been some margin of error or not. EWAR is getting interesting. This reliance on scanners could people dropping their situational awareness and trusting whatever the scanner displays... we need some decoy equipment. How would you do it though? Like in Halo where you send out a hologram of yourself? Or like in COD where you can throw a decoy to ping the scanners? I like both ideas my self. This is a cool idea. Would it be active use equipment? Or a separate module that is set off when scanned?



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