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Ecshon Autorez
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
109
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Posted - 2013.11.02 04:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
You get BPOs of Gallente medium frames (starter fits) just by being a Gallente. These things are the BANE of active scanners.
Fit:
- 2 MLT profile dampeners (BPO)
- 1 other module of your choice (yes, it can be another dampener) (preferably BPO)
and your weapons/equipment of choice (preferably BPO)
They start spamming active scanners, perma-scanning everything? Just equip this and wreak havoc. They'll need PROTOTYPE active scanners to be able to detect you in this fitting. (they'll need the Duvolle Focused Active Scanner (15dB precision) if you equip all 3 modules as MLT level profile dampeners, and this is without skills)
Since it's all BPO you don't need to worry about losing any isk off it, and since it's all MLT (mine is) you don't need to skill into it, meaning that you can spend all your SP on the stuff you actually want. (hooray Logibro!)
Now, GO FORTH!! DESTROY THE ACTIVE SCANNER USERS!
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Ecshon Autorez
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
109
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Posted - 2013.11.02 05:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:You're doing the math way wrong, but whatever The Profile dampeners reduce the profile by a %. One MLT profile dampener gives a 15% reduction. So if you equip 2 of them that's 30%. (they don't have a stacking penalty)
The BPO you get has a 50 dB signature. What is 30% of 50? 15.
50 - 15 = 35. You now have 35 dB signature.
ADV Active scanner has a 36 dB scan precision , that's one too high.
PRO Active scanner has 28 db precision and the Duvolle Focused has 15 dB.
Where is my math wrong? (I really would like to know if I'm wrong :P) |
Ecshon Autorez
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
109
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Posted - 2013.11.02 05:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Protocake JR wrote:Who cares if no one can see your militia/starter fit? Because you can sneak up behind them and kill their players holding the scanners. Or just sneak past all together and cap an objective on the other side of the map while their busy massacring your team. |
Ecshon Autorez
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
110
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 05:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
AseairNow wrote: these modules also have a stacking penalty If you check in game they don't say anything about having a stacking penalty.
I did it my way and then did it your way using your example (scout suit).
- Using one module you got 38.25
AseairNow wrote:it would look like this: 45 x .85 = 38.25 - Using one module i got 38.3
They seem close enough, don't you think? |
Ecshon Autorez
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
110
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 05:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:They do have stacking penalties
Assuming you have lvl 5 Dampening, your profile would be something like:
50 * 0.9 * (1 - 0.85) * ( 1 - 0.85 *0.86 ) = 33.3 50 * 0.9 * (1 - 0.85) * ( 1 - 0.85 *0.86 ) * ( 1 - 0.85 * 0.56) = 30.5
Edit: Even though the game doesn't mention it, they do. There have been numerous tests over it and I believe a Dev even confirmed it recently. So that's the math you guys used, huh?
I did 50 * .15 (15% in decimal form) = the number I subtract from 50 to get my new signature. (when using one module) and 50 * .30 (.15+.15 or 15%+15%) = the number I subtract from 50 to get my new signature. (for 2 modules) |
Ecshon Autorez
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
110
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 05:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Also, where do you guys keep coming up with that it has stacking penalties? It says it in the in-game item description if an item has stacking penalties and it doesn't on these.
'Tether' Complex Shield Regulator wrote:Reduces the length of the delay before shield recharge begins.
NOTE: Stacking penalties apply to this module; the effectiveness of each additional module (after the first) that alters the same attributes will be reduced.
Complex Profile Dampener wrote:Decreases drospuit's scan profile making it harder to detect by scanning systems. |
Ecshon Autorez
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
111
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 17:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:OP raises an interesting point. If OP believes that hiding from scanners is a big deal, surely others do too. Which inversely means there are people who trust their scanners too much. mhm. That's exactly the point. I've been able to walk straight at enemies (but with obstacles blocking view) and since I didn't appear on scanners they had no idea I was there and took way to long to figure out where I was shooting from.
I also once hid in a niche in a wall as 1 heavy, 2 logis, 3 infantry and a tank walked by (*Edit: It was Domination and I was right next to the objective*). One of them turned to the point I'm fairly certain I was visible in the corner of his screen, but I guess he didn't notice.
Now, I don't know what the stacking penalties are, but I can tell you that when using this fitting I have never once been successfully scanned. So it might not be working in theory but it definitely works in practice. Too bad you can't check what scanner someone is using.
I've only got profile dampening to level 2 so that's an additional 4% reduction. Not much but maybe that's compensating for my "bad math" and not knowing about stacking penalties.
*checks Dust wiki*
So I went and checked the Dust wiki and used the stacking calculator that they've got. Using two 15% dampeners the bonus is 29.99% Stacking calculator
I did the math using the formula they give Down at "calculating scan profile"Quote:Sp GÇô (Sp*Ds) GÇô (Sp*Dm) Where: Sp = Scan Profile, Ds = Dampening Skill % efficacy, and Dm = Dampener Module % efficacy. And I got 33.005 dB as the new dropsuit signature (using my dampening skill). That's still low enough to only be detectable using PRO scanners.
That was done with my assumption that skills do not affect (or are affected by) stacking penalties.
If skills are also affected then the new signature would be 33.865 dB. But considering the example they give Quote:Consequently, at lvl 2 Profile Dampening with a Basic Profile Dampener module you get: Sp GÇô (Sp*0.04) GÇô (Sp*0.15)
and that no one here has been saying that skills are affected by stacking, I think it's safe to assume that they aren't. |
Ecshon Autorez
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
111
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 17:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:I know it's not above STD. Above? lowest number wins, not highest, but I understand what you're getting at.
If your on right now we can go and do some tests if you want. I'll stand on one side of a wall, you'll stand on the other (so visual scan doesn't affect) then you can try scanning me using various level scanners.
Like I said, using their formula and their calculator the results are:
(first I'll list off active scanner precisions)
- STD: 46 dB precision
- 'Eclipse': 36 dB precision
- ADV: 36 dB precision
- PRO: 28 dB precision
- Duvolle Focused Active Scanner: 15 dB precision
I'll be using level 0 Profile Dampening on the Gallente Frontline starter fit frame (base is 50 dB)
- 1 MLT profile dampener: 42.5 dB | detectable by 'Eclipse' and better
- 2 MLT profile dampeners: 35.005 dB | detectable by PRO and better (beats the ADV by .995 dB)
- 3 MLT profile dampeners: 29.44 dB | detectable by PRO and better
Now I'll use level 2 Profile Dampening on the Gallente Frontline starter fit frame (base is 50 dB)
- 1 MLT profile dampener: 40.5 dB | detectable by 'Eclipse and better
- 2 MLT profile dampeners: 33.005 dB | detectable by PRO and better
- 3 MLT profile dampeners: 27.44 dB | detectable by Duvolle Focused Active Scanner only (beats PRO by .56 dB)
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Ecshon Autorez
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
111
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 17:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:also, you got a 28.05%, not 29.99%. >.> noooooooo.... type into the text box and hit Calculate Bonus. |
Ecshon Autorez
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
111
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Posted - 2013.11.02 18:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Disturbingly Bored wrote: ED: I'd suggest using the DUST514 Fitting Tool for things like this. The tool's math and stats are solid, and it gets updated fairly frequently with new discoveries about how the stat math works. (It accurately models stacking penalties on dampeners, even though they aren't mentioned as having penalties in game.)
Oooooh! Found it! Hadn't heard of it till now, thanks. Too bad it doesn't seem to have a spot to put skills. |
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Ecshon Autorez
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
111
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 19:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:I don't care what kind of math you do for militia suit voodoo... It's still made out of plastic and my scrambler will melt a whole through it soon as I see you.
That said, I will give you hats off on using starter fits as a tool though, they are an over looked tool for newbies. When I first joined Dust I played for about a month before I put the first SP into dropsuits. Essentially I had a bank role of about 25mil ISK and actually understood what I wanted to do in the game and figured out which corp I wanted to join. I do wish that I had chose Caldari as a race since I'm specializing in Caldari assault...would have made the bonuses on the start suits jive well. But I'll be behind you. I just played a Domination using this. I snuck around the back, destroyed 10+ drop uplinks and a bunch of nanohives, and placed my own uplink. While watching them from behind I saw one guy with an Active Scanner, can you guess who I targeted when I began to attack? We still lost though. *cough* proto squads vs randoms *cough*
Only 3 of my 11 fittings (12 but 1 of them is useless, i just keep it as reference) actually cost isk, the rest are pure BPO.
A PRO logi, an ADV logi, and Caldari Skinweave with all BPOs except for a MLT swarm launcher.
But despite that I have 3 variations of infantry,1 paratrooper, a BPO logi, a sniper, infiltrator, CQC, and I'd say they're all good at what they do for being pure BPO. |
Ecshon Autorez
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
111
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 19:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:If only scanners would not give margin of error message... They do that? -_-" kinda defeats the purpose of having dampeners then. Like how I know when I'm close to enemy scanners when I get the little "Scan attempt prevented" message. They scan, no one pops up but they get the margin of error message "Oh guys, there's an enemy nearby! Let's go get him!". |
Ecshon Autorez
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
111
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 19:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
Marston VC wrote: Someone pointed that out on another post and a CCP dev already said that all the electronic upgrade mods have stacking penalties.
Someone else already said that, but thanks for saying it without providing a link to the source, it really helps . |
Ecshon Autorez
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
111
|
Posted - 2013.11.02 19:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
So I went and used the Dust fitting tool.
Using my stats and 2 MLT dampeners I got a 35.48 dB profile. So yes, using my stats (profile dampening lvl 2) and 2 MLT dampeners will prevent scans from all except PRO and Duvolle Focused active scanners. And since the Gallente starter fits are the only ones with 2 low slots only Gallente can pull this off.
I stand by my earlier statement that Gallente is the best race right now. |
Ecshon Autorez
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
121
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Posted - 2013.11.03 05:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
Cenex Langly wrote:Ecshon Autorez wrote:So I went and used the Dust fitting tool.
Using my stats and 2 MLT dampeners I got a 35.48 dB profile. So yes, using my stats (profile dampening lvl 2) and 2 MLT dampeners will prevent scans from all except PRO and Duvolle Focused active scanners. And since the Gallente starter fits are the only ones with 2 low slots only Gallente can pull this off.
I stand by my earlier statement that Gallente is the best race right now. Right now I have to say that the Gallente suits are the best. For logistics, their cpu/pg bonuses are wonderful. Their low slots are perfect also for a good tank, as shields are complete garbage right now against AR's and SAR's, which do incredible damage. The Assault suit is also amazing as it has another great fitting bonus for the pg/cpu for the Assault Rifles and hybrid weapons... Scouts are great because of the scanning bonus. They provide the best bonuses for this current build.
That wasn't exactly the reason I was going with them as the best race but ok.
I was stating that they're the best race because you get the BPOs of starter fits. That's the only racial difference between any of the races (that affects gameplay) a player of any race can skill into using the suits of any race, but they don't get free BPOs of that races starter fits.
Gallente is the best race (right now) because of how many people are running around with active scanners that having a free suit that let's you go undetected is a great boost. |
Ecshon Autorez
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
122
|
Posted - 2013.11.03 06:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
Borne Velvalor wrote:So, I pull out an active scanner. These are your options.
- Play normally. You are all marked for my squad.
- Use dampeners. You die twice as fast to my whole team.
I like that. Actually it's the opposite since I'm a logibro(well aside from my logi having almost 10hp/s armor repair), even my modules are fitted to assist my team.
The Gallente stealth fitting I use has 17 hp more than my mk.0 (just added shields and armor together than checked the difference between suits) (haven't got shield extender level 5 yet, so I'm stuck using ADV)
I won't have the damage of an Imperial scrambler rifle, but you won't see me coming.... or which direction I ran away in after killing one person from your group.
And I have the added bonus of the ISK war, my stealth fitting is entirely MLT BPOs except for my Exile AR and Toxin SMG. (which are both STD BPOs)
How much does your scanner fitting cost? |
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