DUST Search - CCP reducing this number will fix the HMG

D legendary hero wrote:

Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:

D legendary hero wrote:

AR calculated DPS = AR actual DPS. Fall off is negligible up to 88m.
HMG calculated DPS =/= actual DPS. fall off, dispersion, and hit detection reduce HMG DPS by 10.775733 DPS per second.

Objection.
Fall-off is not 'negligible' at that range unless you think that a 70% reduction in DPS is 'negligible'.

You can calculate the 'applied' HMG DPS as much as you like, but you can't base it against raw AR DPS because it simply isn't completely applied. Besides which, your calculations are based on one incident where your aiming skills could have had an effect.

Except my Aiming skills are not in question here. And like I said this is based on experiences other heavies and I have had. I have 7+ months of experience using the Heavy suit and HMG and using the AR. i know what I am talking about. In addition who even made this questionable chart? it hardly represents actual in game experience using an AR. Just because some one shows you a shiny chart on google graphs doesn't mean it is necessarily correct. Your just trolling right now.

Besides with a 'dren' AR and no damage mods, or proficiency I killed enemies with 400ehp in 1-2 seconds of sustained fire tops.
Since it does 425 DPS (or 467 if you count the DPS as I proved before), the fact that between 1 to 2 seconds of fire on target is all that is needed proves that the fall off upto the range of 88m is negligible. You can perform this test yourself. Record yourself shooting an enemy at 88m range with an AR. count the seconds, then do the same with an HMG (with enemy at 50m). Use my above calculations, or derrive your own to arrive at the 'N' constant (you can use 'F' for fall off).

The burden of proof is on you.

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D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1219	Posted - 2013.10.24 18:01:00 - [1] - Quote ARs With AR DPS statistics to actual application in battle is pretty straight forward. For example. Militia AR does 425 dps (467 with 10% given at the end of chromosome). Since, dispersion, hit detection issues and recoil are negligible up to 88m range they will not be considered. With Aim assist player end inaccuracy is negligible as well. Since, AR rounds are instantaneous in this game (they have no trajectory, they are hit scans). Once you put your sights on target, all your rounds hit target. so, lets see: 34 damage per shot * 750rpm = damage per minute/60seconds = 425 damage per seconds 1.1 = 467.5 DPS therefore, for ARs calculated DPS = actual DPS. Then there is a mild damage fall off. HMGs With HMG DPS the numbers are misleading. You have a harsher damage fall off, higher dispersion, greater hit detection issues, recoil issues, and etc. The calculated DPS within HMG range seems high. for example, a std HMG does 18 damage per shot 2000rpm = damage per minute/60 = 600 damage per second 1.1 = 660 DPS. however, hit detection issues almost always negate between 10-20% of your HMG rounds. so now your DPS is reduced to about 600 to 590 DPS. The enemy has to be within the tiny dot in the center of the HMG retecule to get hit by any bullets. Suggesting that dispersion is not randomly generated but instead is automatically taken out of the DPS by the game engine. Dispersion is around 20-25% from my estimations. That lends to a DPS reduction from between 600 to 590 to a DPS between 480 to 450. This is pretty decent but not by much. As you can see a heavies DPS is only marginally higher than an ARs. With 1/3 the range. HMG fall off: When you calculate damage fall off you can see why the HMG's actual DPS is so drastically different from the calculated DPS. I actually counted the seconds it took to kill a militia minmintar suit at 50m range with my STD HMG. It too 3 seconds of sustained fire. I have I complex damage mod on that HMG. My calculated DPS is 726. however to kill a milita minmintar medium frame with no more than 400ehp took 3 seconds of sustained fire. so the fall off is huge. precisely how much so? (726ehp3) -( n55m) = 400ehp 7263 = 400 + (n55) (7263) - 400 = n * 55 2178-400 = n * 55 1778 = 55n 1778/55 = n n= 32.3272 [note: this N is reduction in HMG dps in 3 seconds time] I am not exactly sure what factors compose n (dispersion hit detection and/or fall off) and the exact combination or contribution of these factors. What I do know however, is that at 55m range, with an HMG doing 726 calculated DPS it took 3 seconds, to down a suit with 400 ehp. So evidently, N is the negative factor that decreases HMG dps per m. so at 40 meters fall off, dispersion and/or hit detection makes the HMG do 1293.088 less dps in 3 seconds time.If this N is in fact 32.3272 less dps per m in 3 seconds time, then In 1 seconds time the N must be 10.775733. TL;DR AR calculated DPS = AR actual DPS. Fall off is negligible up to 88m. HMG calculated DPS =/= actual DPS. fall off, dispersion, and hit detection reduce HMG DPS by 10.775733 DPS per second. therefore: LIST HMG STD DPS AT RANGES AT 10m range from target HMG DPS = 552.5 AT 20m range from target HMG DPS = 445 AT 30m range from target HMG DPS = 337.5 (this is the range where you get out gunned while being across the street) AT 40m range from target HMG DPS = 230 AT 50m range from target HMG DPS = 122.5 (why bother) need I go on?... Solution: Reduce this "N" number to -5dps/m. this will make the HMG feel like an HMG so at 30 meters for example the HMG will do 510 DPS.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1096	Posted - 2013.10.24 18:12:00 - [2] - Quote Makes enough sense to me, the HMG is an Autocannon so it should be able to compete with the Blaster Rifle at any range besides point blank. If fact, it's a size up so it should be better in every way...
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1220	Posted - 2013.10.24 22:32:00 - [3] - Quote another takers?
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1098	Posted - 2013.10.24 22:35:00 - [4] - Quote I was a Heavy during E3, back when they were golden gods, so I think I'll do a little here and there to try and get the HMG issue back to the forefront. Time for a threadnaught...
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 4180	Posted - 2013.10.24 22:40:00 - [5] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: AR calculated DPS = AR actual DPS. Fall off is negligible up to 88m. HMG calculated DPS =/= actual DPS. fall off, dispersion, and hit detection reduce HMG DPS by 10.775733 DPS per second. Objection. Fall-off is not 'negligible' at that range unless you think that a 70% reduction in DPS is 'negligible'. You can calculate the 'applied' HMG DPS as much as you like, but you can't base it against raw AR DPS because it simply isn't completely applied. Besides which, your calculations are based on one incident where your aiming skills could have had an effect.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1102	Posted - 2013.10.24 22:46:00 - [6] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: D legendary hero wrote: AR calculated DPS = AR actual DPS. Fall off is negligible up to 88m. HMG calculated DPS =/= actual DPS. fall off, dispersion, and hit detection reduce HMG DPS by 10.775733 DPS per second. Objection. Fall-off is not 'negligible' at that range unless you think that a 70% reduction in DPS is 'negligible'. You can calculate the 'applied' HMG DPS as much as you like, but you can't base it against raw AR DPS because it simply isn't completely applied. Besides which, your calculations are based on one incident where your aiming skills could have had an effect. Then we should test this, we need to make sure we have all the facts as we understand them. Although I do get what he means. It isn't so much falloff that wins the day here as it is the weapon's accuracy, where the AR can keep a much better consistent damage profile even at great distances. The HMG cannot, and as such loses by default. This could be a result of one gun underperforming, one overperforming, or both. I'm in the both camp personally.
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1221	Posted - 2013.10.24 22:46:00 - [7] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: D legendary hero wrote: AR calculated DPS = AR actual DPS. Fall off is negligible up to 88m. HMG calculated DPS =/= actual DPS. fall off, dispersion, and hit detection reduce HMG DPS by 10.775733 DPS per second. Objection. Fall-off is not 'negligible' at that range unless you think that a 70% reduction in DPS is 'negligible'. You can calculate the 'applied' HMG DPS as much as you like, but you can't base it against raw AR DPS because it simply isn't completely applied. Besides which, your calculations are based on one incident where your aiming skills could have had an effect. Except my Aiming skills are not in question here. And like I said this is based on experiences other heavies and I have had. I have 7+ months of experience using the Heavy suit and HMG and using the AR. i know what I am talking about. In addition who even made this questionable chart? it hardly represents actual in game experience using an AR. Your just trolling right now.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1556	Posted - 2013.10.24 22:58:00 - [8] - Quote I don't know... the HMG seems pretty awesome to me. ARs can't touch heavies in close quarters unless they swarm you, and besides that the only problem with my heavy is not being able to waddle away from grenades fast enough. I have HMG Operation III and I only use the basic HMG and I've gotten some pretty good FW games, but I'll admit I haven't played PC with a heavy yet. If anything, the reticle and dispersion should just be reduced more when you're crouching. Besides, there are only two heavy weapons at the moment, so heavies don't have much versatility. Maybe when they implement some medium-range infantry-slaying weapons for the heavy, the HMG's role as a close-quarters destroyer will become clearer.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1102	Posted - 2013.10.24 23:01:00 - [9] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: D legendary hero wrote: AR calculated DPS = AR actual DPS. Fall off is negligible up to 88m. HMG calculated DPS =/= actual DPS. fall off, dispersion, and hit detection reduce HMG DPS by 10.775733 DPS per second. Objection. Fall-off is not 'negligible' at that range unless you think that a 70% reduction in DPS is 'negligible'. You can calculate the 'applied' HMG DPS as much as you like, but you can't base it against raw AR DPS because it simply isn't completely applied. Besides which, your calculations are based on one incident where your aiming skills could have had an effect. Except my Aiming skills are not in question here. And like I said this is based on experiences other heavies and I have had. I have 7+ months of experience using the Heavy suit and HMG and using the AR. i know what I am talking about. In addition who even made this questionable chart? it hardly represents actual in game experience using an AR. Just because some one shows you a shiny chart on google graphs doesn't mean it is necessarily correct. Your just trolling right now. Besides with a 'dren' AR and no damage mods, or proficiency I killed enemies with 400ehp in 1-2 seconds of sustained fire tops. Since it does 425 DPS (or 467 if you count the DPS as I proved before), the fact that between 1 to 2 seconds of fire on target is all that is needed proves that the fall off upto the range of 88m is negligible. You can perform this test yourself. Record yourself shooting an enemy at 88m range with an AR. count the seconds, then do the same with an HMG (with enemy at 50m). Use my above calculations, or derrive your own to arrive at the 'N' constant (you can use 'F' for fall off). The burden of proof is on you. I believe the chart was made by one Aeon Amadi of the corp ANONYMOUS. It only shows damage percentage done to shields at different rages, however, and as such is only one facet of gunplay. He isn't wrong to use it, but more needs to be used than just it. It's like saying the Forge Gun is the best gun because it does the most damage per shot. You're right from a certain point of view, but not in the big picture. This all stems from the misuse of one word, so lets just calm down and think about what needs to be addressed. The HMG is very weak at range, but we need to run a few more tests to see how weak and against what targets. Once we have a full battery of solid numbers, then we can start pulling the knives on throats okay?
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1102	Posted - 2013.10.24 23:04:00 - [10] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: I don't know... the HMG seems pretty awesome to me. ARs can't touch heavies in close quarters unless they swarm you, and besides that the only problem with my heavy is not being able to waddle away from grenades fast enough. I have HMG Operation III and I only use the basic HMG and I've gotten some pretty good FW games, but I'll admit I haven't played PC with a heavy yet. If anything, the reticle and dispersion should just be reduced more when you're crouching. Besides, there are only two heavy weapons at the moment, so heavies don't have much versatility. Maybe when they implement some medium-range infantry-slaying weapons for the heavy, the HMG's role as a close-quarters destroyer will become clearer. The irritating thing about that statement is the differing treatment between the AR and HMG. The AR was for the longest time the only racial Rifle, and as such was buffed accordingly to fill all roles. The HMG was one of TWO Heavy guns, and the only Heavy Anti-Infantry weapon, but was pushed into a niche immediately. When you look at it like that, no wonder the HMG seems/is underpowered.

Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 4180	Posted - 2013.10.24 23:04:00 - [11] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: D legendary hero wrote: AR calculated DPS = AR actual DPS. Fall off is negligible up to 88m. HMG calculated DPS =/= actual DPS. fall off, dispersion, and hit detection reduce HMG DPS by 10.775733 DPS per second. Objection. Fall-off is not 'negligible' at that range unless you think that a 70% reduction in DPS is 'negligible'. You can calculate the 'applied' HMG DPS as much as you like, but you can't base it against raw AR DPS because it simply isn't completely applied. Besides which, your calculations are based on one incident where your aiming skills could have had an effect. Except my Aiming skills are not in question here. And like I said this is based on experiences other heavies and I have had. I have 7+ months of experience using the Heavy suit and HMG and using the AR. i know what I am talking about. In addition who even made this questionable chart? it hardly represents actual in game experience using an AR. Just because some one shows you a shiny chart on google graphs doesn't mean it is necessarily correct. Your just trolling right now. Besides with a 'dren' AR and no damage mods, or proficiency I killed enemies with 400ehp in 1-2 seconds of sustained fire tops. Since it does 425 DPS (or 467 if you count the DPS as I proved before), the fact that between 1 to 2 seconds of fire on target is all that is needed proves that the fall off upto the range of 88m is negligible. You can perform this test yourself. Record yourself shooting an enemy at 88m range with an AR. count the seconds, then do the same with an HMG (with enemy at 50m). Use my above calculations, or derrive your own to arrive at the 'N' constant (you can use 'F' for fall off). The burden of proof is on you. That chart was assembled by Q-syncing on opposite sides and recording damage values at various ranges - Aeon Amadi made it. Questionable? I think not - his testing is exceptional and goes well beyond what the vast majority of players even consider. Additionally, the CCP statistics agree with it. See the point where damage drops off to approximately 30-40% at 65m for the assault rifle - this corresponds to the chart. Thus, it is physically impossible to kill a 400 EHP target with a 425 DPS weapon in one or two seconds with an effective damage reduction of 70%, even were you to land every single one of your shots. As for your point about your aiming skills, they are not perfect. Nobody has perfect aiming skills. There was some human error in that example.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 153	Posted - 2013.10.24 23:06:00 - [12] - Quote Truth in lending up front: I'm not an HMG or AR player at all. Not one SP in either. That said, whatever the numbers say, the HMG should not be out done in straight up damage production by an AR (or anything save a Forge Gun or Plasma Cannon) within 50 meters. It should be a pain in th a$$ to reload, not strafe well, slow you down, generally have higher SP requirements, but it should be a BEAST within it's optimal engagement critera. Essentially, you should be doing AR damage with SMG ROF.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 4180	Posted - 2013.10.24 23:10:00 - [13] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Truth in lending up front: I'm not an HMG or AR player at all. Not one SP in either. That said, whatever the numbers say, the HMG should not be out done in straight up damage production by an AR (or anything save a Forge Gun or Plasma Cannon) within 50 meters. It should be a pain in th a$$ to reload, not strafe well, slow you down, generally have higher SP requirements, but it should be a BEAST within it's optimal engagement critera. Essentially, you should be doing AR damage with SMG ROF. In terms of raw damage output, the HMG already has that level of damage. The problem comes when trying to apply that damage - range and dispersion reduce applied damage significantly.
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1222	Posted - 2013.10.24 23:18:00 - [14] - Quote indeed. In addition, this is not an AR nerf thread. Rather this thread is to prove that when using DPS inconjunction with ARs accurately represents the damage you ar doing upto about 88 meters. where as with the HMG the calcualted DPS looks high but the fall off, dispersion constant makes the actual DPS very low. in addition. This player may have done his testing and thats fine. I don't have a chart to represent all my stats, but the calculations here are solid. Most people who use ARs and HMgs would agree that these numbers represent in game phenomena. Like I said, the 'N' constant -10.10dps/m for the HMG, im not sure if that is fall off, hit detection, etc. but, blaming that on my aim? Thats ludacris. After 7+ months of playing essentially the same maps with minor alterations, there is no way you can tell me that consistent results on my part would be due to poor aim.
8213 Grade No.2 501	Posted - 2013.10.24 23:29:00 - [15] - Quote I don't like the sound of Heavies returning close to their former glory. They don't sacrifice anything then. They have more HP and more killing effectiveness? The way your numbers stand, I don't like them. 30-40m is where the HMG should stop completely. Besides, upping the damage does nothing to a gun with an ultra high disperse rate. Why can't you use a Duvolle on your Heavy frame like everyone else?
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 4180	Posted - 2013.10.24 23:33:00 - [16] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: indeed. In addition, this is not an AR nerf thread. Rather this thread is to prove that when using DPS inconjunction with ARs accurately represents the damage you ar doing upto about 88 meters. where as with the HMG the calcualted DPS looks high but the fall off, dispersion constant makes the actual DPS very low. in addition. This player may have done his testing and thats fine. I don't have a chart to represent all my stats, but the calculations here are solid. Most people who use ARs and HMgs would agree that these numbers represent in game phenomena. Like I said, the 'N' constant -10.10dps/m for the HMG, im not sure if that is fall off, hit detection, etc. but, blaming that on my aim? Thats ludacris. After 7+ months of playing essentially the same maps with minor alterations, there is no way you can tell me that consistent results on my part would be due to poor aim. I'm simply asking you to be fairer in your comparison. Assuming that an AR applies its full damage at that range is a ludicrous concept, and to properly compare the two you must also calculate the falloff damage from the assault rifle. I have provided you with empirical evidence contradicting your anecdotal evidence. Your ''N' constant' is hardly accurate as it's based on one incident where you gathered relatively inaccurate data. I'm not blaming it on your 'poor aim'. I said that it's not humanly possible to land every single shot you fire. Is that incorrect? Do you land all of your shots with the HMG? If you don't, then there is a degree of human error present. That same error is present with the AR, though perhaps not to the same extent. It is, in fact, 'ludicrous' to think that you could have perfect accuracy.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 4180	Posted - 2013.10.24 23:34:00 - [17] - Quote 8213 wrote: Why can't you use a Duvolle on your Heavy frame like everyone else? I facepalmed. Does this not indicate a problem to you?
OmegaKelevra Algintal Core Gallente Federation 24	Posted - 2013.10.24 23:36:00 - [18] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: I don't know... the HMG seems pretty awesome to me. ARs can't touch heavies in close quarters unless they swarm you, and besides that the only problem with my heavy is not being able to waddle away from grenades fast enough. I have HMG Operation III and I only use the basic HMG and I've gotten some pretty good FW games, but I'll admit I haven't played PC with a heavy yet. If anything, the reticle and dispersion should just be reduced more when you're crouching. Besides, there are only two heavy weapons at the moment, so heavies don't have much versatility. Maybe when they implement some medium-range infantry-slaying weapons for the heavy, the HMG's role as a close-quarters destroyer will become clearer. Hahahaha Did you really just Say a AR can't touch a heavy in CQ combat? and not did you say that but did so with a straight face. you sir should run for congress or hell a senator even because once again i call bullshit a person story of ownage out of my own whining little heart I last night to get my one day bouse logged onto this account because i love the heavy idea & HMG is just cool looking. but me another like me and a green heavy was guarding a cannon when two guys with Geks rolled in there cut thru me & heavy number 2 like a knife thru butter & BTW the green heavy looked so cool even as they tossed a nade and i watched a green turd fly. I know & i'm a big fan but i regret investing in heavy's & heavy weapons. would rather have went light with laser rifle or shotgun.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 4180	Posted - 2013.10.24 23:43:00 - [19] - Quote OmegaKelevra wrote: I know & i'm a big fan but i regret investing in heavy's & heavy weapons. would rather have went light with laser rifle or shotgun. You don't want those either, honestly.
Rowdy Railgunner TRUE TEA BAGGERS EoN. 90	Posted - 2013.10.24 23:55:00 - [20] - Quote I think what we need is a belt fed Gallente HMG that has the accuracy of an AR and reaches out to 45-50 meters. The Minmatar gatling gun is of lesser quality therefore not as accurate as the superior race that is Gallente. Since this gun would be single barrel, it would heat up quicker, but it would apply more accurate fire at start rather than at a sustained rate.

Rowdy Railgunner TRUE TEA BAGGERS EoN. 90	Posted - 2013.10.24 23:57:00 - [21] - Quote Rowdy Railgunner wrote: I think what we need is a belt fed Gallente HMG that has the accuracy of an AR and reaches out to 45-50 meters. The Minmatar gatling gun is of lesser quality therefore not as accurate as the superior race that is Gallente. Since this gun would be single barrel, it would heat up quicker, but it would apply more accurate fire at start rather than at a sustained rate. Also, an Amarr heavy pulse lazor PEW PEW PEW that is like the Gallente one but with switchable fire modes. Low damage long range, out to 80-100 meters and a high damage short range 20-35 meters.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 154	Posted - 2013.10.25 00:00:00 - [22] - Quote 8213 wrote: I don't like the sound of Heavies returning close to their former glory. They don't sacrifice anything then. They have more HP and more killing effectiveness? Yes...that's exactly what they should do.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 154	Posted - 2013.10.25 00:05:00 - [23] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Truth in lending up front: I'm not an HMG or AR player at all. Not one SP in either. That said, whatever the numbers say, the HMG should not be out done in straight up damage production by an AR (or anything save a Forge Gun or Plasma Cannon) within 50 meters. It should be a pain in th a$$ to reload, not strafe well, slow you down, generally have higher SP requirements, but it should be a BEAST within it's optimal engagement critera. Essentially, you should be doing AR damage with SMG ROF. In terms of raw damage output, the HMG already has that level of damage. The problem comes when trying to apply that damage - range and dispersion reduce applied damage significantly. Arkena...totally understand and agree. I was just supply a subjective opinion...seems intuitive that the HMG should be more capable of producing and applying damage than the AR within it's engagement construct. I do think it's a bit goofy that it has such a huge damage drop off. I think they could moderate the shot dispersion slightly but have a similar range as the AR. The trick is you should get little to know ADS advantage.
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1264	Posted - 2013.10.25 00:08:00 - [24] - Quote I think DPS is the ugliest word in dust.
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK 219	Posted - 2013.10.25 00:23:00 - [25] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: I think DPS is the ugliest word in dust. I'd say second, after KDR. HMGs do need something and since I haven't used one in months or studied my opponents I'm going to refrain from saying more.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1106	Posted - 2013.10.25 00:25:00 - [26] - Quote 8213 wrote: I don't like the sound of Heavies returning close to their former glory. They don't sacrifice anything then. They have more HP and more killing effectiveness? The way your numbers stand, I don't like them. 30-40m is where the HMG should stop completely. Besides, upping the damage does nothing to a gun with an ultra high disperse rate. Why can't you use a Duvolle on your Heavy frame like everyone else? To pick this apart surgically... They have more HP and more killing effectiveness? Yea, they are HEAVIES, that's the point of their existence. They don't sacrifice anything? Walnuts to that. They give up speed, evasion, stealth, and equipment slots, as well as being the largest target on the field. 30-40m for the HMG? Stupidly ludicrous. The HMG is a large Autocannon. Compare a Large Autocannon to a Medium Blaster in EVE, I'll wait. Why can't he just use a Duvolle? He has standards, and like many other people, he isn't dumb enough to waste SP on chasing the Flavor of the Month... or Flavor of the First Year, in this case. We all know that the AR is getting nerfed in 1.5... 1.6?... 1.7, okay Wolfman, it better get here by Xmas... anyway, we know that's coming, so why would we put SP in it until we know what that entails?
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1106	Posted - 2013.10.25 00:26:00 - [27] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: I think DPS is the ugliest word in dust. Three words actually, and can be a different set of three words depending on the person. :3
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1222	Posted - 2013.10.25 04:58:00 - [28] - Quote 8213 wrote: I don't like the sound of Heavies returning close to their former glory. They don't sacrifice anything then. They have more HP and more killing effectiveness? The way your numbers stand, I don't like them. 30-40m is where the HMG should stop completely. Besides, upping the damage does nothing to a gun with an ultra high disperse rate. Why can't you use a Duvolle on your Heavy frame like everyone else? Are you serious? please reread your comment after using a heavy suit.
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1222	Posted - 2013.10.25 05:00:00 - [29] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: I think DPS is the ugliest word in dust. AR is the ugliest word
Vitharr Foebane Blood Money Mercenaries 142	Posted - 2013.10.25 06:28:00 - [30] - Quote 8213 wrote: I don't like the sound of Heavies returning close to their former glory. They don't sacrifice anything then. They have more HP and more killing effectiveness? The way your numbers stand, I don't like them. 30-40m is where the HMG should stop completely. Besides, upping the damage does nothing to a gun with an ultra high disperse rate. Why can't you use a Duvolle on your Heavy frame like everyone else? Hmm... no sacrifices huh? Do you mean no sacrifices besides being unable out run ANY other suit walking or having a hitbox the size of a f*cking titan? Then again I'm just an idiot who decided to be a fattie, so I might be a bit biased...



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