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Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
1096
   |
Posted - 2013.10.24 18:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
Makes enough sense to me, the HMG is an Autocannon so it should be able to compete with the Blaster Rifle at any range besides point blank. If fact, it's a size up so it should be better in every way... |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
1098
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 22:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
I was a Heavy during E3, back when they were golden gods, so I think I'll do a little here and there to try and get the HMG issue back to the forefront. Time for a threadnaught... |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
1102
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 22:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:D legendary hero wrote:
AR calculated DPS = AR actual DPS. Fall off is negligible up to 88m.
HMG calculated DPS =/= actual DPS. fall off, dispersion, and hit detection reduce HMG DPS by 10.775733 DPS per second.
Objection.Fall-off is not 'negligible' at that range unless you think that a 70% reduction in DPS is 'negligible'. You can calculate the 'applied' HMG DPS as much as you like, but you can't base it against raw AR DPS because it simply isn't completely applied. Besides which, your calculations are based on one incident where your aiming skills could have had an effect.
Then we should test this, we need to make sure we have all the facts as we understand them. Although I do get what he means. It isn't so much falloff that wins the day here as it is the weapon's accuracy, where the AR can keep a much better consistent damage profile even at great distances. The HMG cannot, and as such loses by default. This could be a result of one gun underperforming, one overperforming, or both. I'm in the both camp personally. |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
1102
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 23:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:D legendary hero wrote:
AR calculated DPS = AR actual DPS. Fall off is negligible up to 88m.
HMG calculated DPS =/= actual DPS. fall off, dispersion, and hit detection reduce HMG DPS by 10.775733 DPS per second.
Objection.Fall-off is not 'negligible' at that range unless you think that a 70% reduction in DPS is 'negligible'. You can calculate the 'applied' HMG DPS as much as you like, but you can't base it against raw AR DPS because it simply isn't completely applied. Besides which, your calculations are based on one incident where your aiming skills could have had an effect. Except my Aiming skills are not in question here. And like I said this is based on experiences other heavies and I have had. I have 7+ months of experience using the Heavy suit and HMG and using the AR. i know what I am talking about. In addition who even made this questionable chart? it hardly represents actual in game experience using an AR. Just because some one shows you a shiny chart on google graphs doesn't mean it is necessarily correct. Your just trolling right now. Besides with a 'dren' AR and no damage mods, or proficiency I killed enemies with 400ehp in 1-2 seconds of sustained fire tops. Since it does 425 DPS (or 467 if you count the DPS as I proved before), the fact that between 1 to 2 seconds of fire on target is all that is needed proves that the fall off upto the range of 88m is negligible. You can perform this test yourself. Record yourself shooting an enemy at 88m range with an AR. count the seconds, then do the same with an HMG (with enemy at 50m). Use my above calculations, or derrive your own to arrive at the 'N' constant (you can use 'F' for fall off). The burden of proof is on you.
I believe the chart was made by one Aeon Amadi of the corp ANONYMOUS. It only shows damage percentage done to shields at different rages, however, and as such is only one facet of gunplay. He isn't wrong to use it, but more needs to be used than just it. It's like saying the Forge Gun is the best gun because it does the most damage per shot. You're right from a certain point of view, but not in the big picture.
This all stems from the misuse of one word, so lets just calm down and think about what needs to be addressed. The HMG is very weak at range, but we need to run a few more tests to see how weak and against what targets. Once we have a full battery of solid numbers, then we can start pulling the knives on throats okay? |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
1102
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 23:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:I don't know... the HMG seems pretty awesome to me. ARs can't touch heavies in close quarters unless they swarm you, and besides that the only problem with my heavy is not being able to waddle away from grenades fast enough.
I have HMG Operation III and I only use the basic HMG and I've gotten some pretty good FW games, but I'll admit I haven't played PC with a heavy yet.
If anything, the reticle and dispersion should just be reduced more when you're crouching. Besides, there are only two heavy weapons at the moment, so heavies don't have much versatility. Maybe when they implement some medium-range infantry-slaying weapons for the heavy, the HMG's role as a close-quarters destroyer will become clearer.
The irritating thing about that statement is the differing treatment between the AR and HMG. The AR was for the longest time the only racial Rifle, and as such was buffed accordingly to fill all roles. The HMG was one of TWO Heavy guns, and the only Heavy Anti-Infantry weapon, but was pushed into a niche immediately. When you look at it like that, no wonder the HMG seems/is underpowered. |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
1106
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 00:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
8213 wrote:I don't like the sound of Heavies returning close to their former glory. They don't sacrifice anything then. They have more HP and more killing effectiveness?
The way your numbers stand, I don't like them. 30-40m is where the HMG should stop completely. Besides, upping the damage does nothing to a gun with an ultra high disperse rate.
Why can't you use a Duvolle on your Heavy frame like everyone else?
To pick this apart surgically...
They have more HP and more killing effectiveness? Yea, they are HEAVIES, that's the point of their existence.
They don't sacrifice anything? Walnuts to that. They give up speed, evasion, stealth, and equipment slots, as well as being the largest target on the field.
30-40m for the HMG? Stupidly ludicrous. The HMG is a large Autocannon. Compare a Large Autocannon to a Medium Blaster in EVE, I'll wait.
Why can't he just use a Duvolle? He has standards, and like many other people, he isn't dumb enough to waste SP on chasing the Flavor of the Month... or Flavor of the First Year, in this case. We all know that the AR is getting nerfed in 1.5... 1.6?... 1.7, okay Wolfman, it better get here by Xmas... anyway, we know that's coming, so why would we put SP in it until we know what that entails? |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
1106
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 00:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:I think DPS is the ugliest word in dust.
Three words actually, and can be a different set of three words depending on the person. :3 |
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