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D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1219
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Posted - 2013.10.24 18:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
ARs
With AR DPS statistics to actual application in battle is pretty straight forward. For example. Militia AR does 425 dps (467 with 10% given at the end of chromosome). Since, dispersion, hit detection issues and recoil are negligible up to 88m range they will not be considered. With Aim assist player end inaccuracy is negligible as well. Since, AR rounds are instantaneous in this game (they have no trajectory, they are hit scans). Once you put your sights on target, all your rounds hit target.
so, lets see:
34 damage per shot * 750rpm = damage per minute/60seconds = 425 damage per seconds *1.1 = 467.5 DPS
therefore, for ARs calculated DPS = actual DPS. Then there is a mild damage fall off.
HMGs
With HMG DPS the numbers are misleading. You have a harsher damage fall off, higher dispersion, greater hit detection issues, recoil issues, and etc.
The calculated DPS within HMG range seems high. for example, a std HMG does 18 damage per shot * 2000rpm = damage per minute/60 = 600 damage per second *1.1 = 660 DPS.
however, hit detection issues almost always negate between 10-20% of your HMG rounds.
so now your DPS is reduced to about 600 to 590 DPS.
The enemy has to be within the tiny dot in the center of the HMG retecule to get hit by any bullets. Suggesting that dispersion is not randomly generated but instead is automatically taken out of the DPS by the game engine.
Dispersion is around 20-25% from my estimations. That lends to a DPS reduction from between 600 to 590 to a DPS between 480 to 450.
This is pretty decent but not by much. As you can see a heavies DPS is only marginally higher than an ARs. With 1/3 the range.
HMG fall off:
When you calculate damage fall off you can see why the HMG's actual DPS is so drastically different from the calculated DPS. I actually counted the seconds it took to kill a militia minmintar suit at 50m range with my STD HMG. It too 3 seconds of sustained fire. I have I complex damage mod on that HMG. My calculated DPS is 726. however to kill a milita minmintar medium frame with no more than 400ehp took 3 seconds of sustained fire. so the fall off is huge. precisely how much so?
(726ehp*3) -( n*55m) = 400ehp
726*3 = 400 + (n*55)
(726*3) - 400 = n * 55
2178-400 = n * 55
1778 = 55n
1778/55 = n
n= 32.3272
[note: this N is reduction in HMG dps in 3 seconds time]
I am not exactly sure what factors compose n (dispersion hit detection and/or fall off) and the exact combination or contribution of these factors. What I do know however, is that at 55m range, with an HMG doing 726 calculated DPS it took 3 seconds, to down a suit with 400 ehp. So evidently, N is the negative factor that decreases HMG dps per m.
so at 40 meters fall off, dispersion and/or hit detection makes the HMG do 1293.088 less dps in 3 seconds time.If this N is in fact 32.3272 less dps per m in 3 seconds time, then In 1 seconds time the N must be 10.775733.
TL;DR
AR calculated DPS = AR actual DPS. Fall off is negligible up to 88m.
HMG calculated DPS =/= actual DPS. fall off, dispersion, and hit detection reduce HMG DPS by 10.775733 DPS per second. therefore:
LIST HMG STD DPS AT RANGES
AT 10m range from target HMG DPS = 552.5
AT 20m range from target HMG DPS = 445
AT 30m range from target HMG DPS = 337.5 (this is the range where you get out gunned while being across the street)
AT 40m range from target HMG DPS = 230
AT 50m range from target HMG DPS = 122.5 (why bother)
need I go on?...
Solution:
Reduce this "N" number to -5dps/m. this will make the HMG feel like an HMG
so at 30 meters for example the HMG will do 510 DPS. |
D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1220
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Posted - 2013.10.24 22:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
another takers? |
D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1221
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Posted - 2013.10.24 22:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:D legendary hero wrote:
AR calculated DPS = AR actual DPS. Fall off is negligible up to 88m.
HMG calculated DPS =/= actual DPS. fall off, dispersion, and hit detection reduce HMG DPS by 10.775733 DPS per second.
Objection.Fall-off is not 'negligible' at that range unless you think that a 70% reduction in DPS is 'negligible'. You can calculate the 'applied' HMG DPS as much as you like, but you can't base it against raw AR DPS because it simply isn't completely applied. Besides which, your calculations are based on one incident where your aiming skills could have had an effect.
Except my Aiming skills are not in question here. And like I said this is based on experiences other heavies and I have had. I have 7+ months of experience using the Heavy suit and HMG and using the AR. i know what I am talking about.
In addition who even made this questionable chart? it hardly represents actual in game experience using an AR. Your just trolling right now. |
D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1222
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 23:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
indeed. In addition, this is not an AR nerf thread. Rather this thread is to prove that when using DPS inconjunction with ARs accurately represents the damage you ar doing upto about 88 meters.
where as with the HMG the calcualted DPS looks high but the fall off, dispersion constant makes the actual DPS very low.
in addition. This player may have done his testing and thats fine. I don't have a chart to represent all my stats, but the calculations here are solid. Most people who use ARs and HMgs would agree that these numbers represent in game phenomena.
Like I said, the 'N' constant -10.10dps/m for the HMG, im not sure if that is fall off, hit detection, etc. but, blaming that on my aim? Thats ludacris. After 7+ months of playing essentially the same maps with minor alterations, there is no way you can tell me that consistent results on my part would be due to poor aim. |
D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1222
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 04:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
8213 wrote:I don't like the sound of Heavies returning close to their former glory. They don't sacrifice anything then. They have more HP and more killing effectiveness?
The way your numbers stand, I don't like them. 30-40m is where the HMG should stop completely. Besides, upping the damage does nothing to a gun with an ultra high disperse rate.
Why can't you use a Duvolle on your Heavy frame like everyone else?
Are you serious? please reread your comment after using a heavy suit. |
D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1222
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 05:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:I think DPS is the ugliest word in dust.
AR is the ugliest word |
D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1231
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Posted - 2013.10.31 02:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
heavies need more
D Legendary Hero, Defender of the downtrodden.
Let those tainted by evil beware... soon they will discover Justice
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D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1250
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Posted - 2013.11.09 08:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP made me give up on the HMG
Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça
I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice
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