So you wanted tanks to be what all of the tankers wanted? A super weapon only 10-20 players could use and dominate with? Welcome to Chromosome.

Golden Age <333

One of those in an ambush and you were guaranteed 30 kills, at least. Rails could sit on top of a mountain on Manus Peak and go 50+ kills every time bby camping every objective (people used to render beyond 10m)

So you wanted tanks to be what all of the tankers wanted? A super weapon only 10-20 players could use and dominate with? Welcome to Chromosome.

Golden Age <333

One of those in an ambush and you were guaranteed 30 kills, at least. Rails could sit on top of a mountain on Manus Peak and go 50+ kills every time bby camping every objective (people used to render beyond 10m)

Because we don't have enough SP sinks
Vehicles are a major part of the game so this is a terrible idea. If you want no vehicles go play COD.

I don't want no vehicles ... I just don't want 3-4 people on each team in every pub match bringing in vehicles cos that's all they've skilled in ... they should have been kept at the high power they used to have in earlier closed beta builds, but they should have been pushed into an endgame specialisation AFTER you'd developed some FPS skill to fund them with.

Edit : I tried CoD once !

3-4 people using vehicles is normal, people like being vehicle specialists, they shouldn't have to waste skill points on things they'll never use. And with no vehicles it would take forever to get places.

Many of you might remember before Uprising when you created a character, you chose a class ... I forget their names but there was Enforcer n Arbeiter n Sentinal and they dictated what class of dropsuit and relevant skills you started with.

So why is it vehicles ended up being a class of their own ? ... Why do we have people running starter fits for the sole purpose of investing into vehicle skills and to save isk to afford to use them ?

I would much rather have seen vehicles that were damn difficult to get rid of and could be a real problem for an entire team but required Caldari Assault Dropsuit skill 5 as a pre-requisite or logistics vehicles that required Minmatar Logistics Dropsuit skill 5 etc. and even Pirate Faction vehicles that required cross training such as Sansha dropship requiring Minmatar and Gallente dropship 5 for example.

This would have put vehicles to where I think they should've been ... an endgame specialisation rather than common as muck in every pub battle. They would have been something to work towards and the envy of everyone who hadn't got that far yet and would justify their pricetag with firepower and survivability of an endgame asset that you'd only see driven by people with 20+ mil sp and they'd only have just started skilling them rather than cross training other suits n maxing out other weapons.

You could have pushed AV deeper into the specialisation tree so AV grenades were a 10-15X skill requiring Flux 5 which would require Locus 5 ... and Swarms requiring Lazer and Mass Driver 5 (or whatever you think fits better) ... and Forges requiring HMG 5 etc. etc. etc. just making them more specialised than the 'alternative weapon' they are now.

I know it's probably way too late to do anything about this, since there are so many "vehicle specialists" that would cry and leave if they had to play a gun game, but I would have much preferred vehicles to have been like the Capitals of Eve ... certainly the higher level ones (maybe basic LAVs n dropships could have been available with advanced dropsuits).

Just my opinion, agree or disagree, won't make either of us right !

That's why I said basic LAVs and dropships could have been unlocked at advanced dropsuit levels since they're transport vehicles and not particularly offensive ... speeders would be included aswell.

If 3-4 vehicles is normal, then they should be easy to deal with and not cost what they currently do.

A suit requirement wouldn't accomplish what you want anyway. It would simply add another SP sink for vehicle pilots.

The real infantry SP requirements come in numerous Dropsuit Upgrade skills and Weapon skills. The suit is only a tiny SP cost compared to all the support skills required to be an effective infantry player.

Sorry man -1

Nonsensical sp requirements do not fix the AV balance, if anything they would break it even worse when one of those aforementioned veterans brings out a tank in a pub match and is completely unstoppable.

I know this is going to throw some people but I think all vehicles should have a reduced sp investment, and provide much more marginal benefits for sp invested.

This is a gun game, vehicle specialization should not be a class anymore than the mass driver users are a class. It is a tool, you can specialize into it and hone your skills to get the most out of it, but in the end it is a tool. Calling in vehicles should be an investment for assistance your team not a dedicated play style.

It was E3 build when they were where I thought they should be, but I maxed out the Surya in a week ... so not the endgame specialisation they should have been.

SP gain was unlimited tho and 4x the rate too

200k SP games ftw

I don't want no vehicles ... I just don't want 3-4 people on each team in every pub match bringing in vehicles cos that's all they've skilled in ...

Piloting is a profession in any military and there is no reason to denigrate it in DUST.

I would imagine for some of the pilots, that the draw of this game was the fact that they could specialize as a pilot right away.

Making them have to skill up in gun game would have no appeal to some and we would lose them as mercs(even though the current vehicle issues might do this anyway).

It's like going to college to be an engineer and a prereq is 10 semesters of creative writing.

YEt I doubt you'll find a military in the world where vehicle operators don't complete at least basic infantry training !

YEt I doubt you'll find a military in the world where vehicle operators don't complete at least basic infantry training !

I see what your saying, but basic training(for the navy) was only about 9 weeks. Then you were sent to your A school right after if you picked a rate when you joined. A very small percentage of your career would be basic. What your asking is for someone to spend 15 years of a 20 year career I basic. That what I got from your op.

I'd prefer they drop the SP requirements for everything vehicle-related to about 25% of current levels but keep/increase the ISK price. That way they end up being used as specialized equipment without gimping those who really like the vehicle experience when.

Also, I am slightly incapacitated right now so the above may or may not make sense when I re-read it later.

I'm not a tanker, I actually hate them (kind of a respect,but love hate), so I'm no expert on what kind of sp they have to spend. But I do know they have to spend some good coin just to field the most basic tank( which can be solo killed with a basic swarm). Don't think a tanker just starting out can field them on a consistent basis without going infantry once in awhile. That will have to be the basic training.

Only as the mighty capital ships require you to spend years training the smaller ships in Eve.

I just see people joining the game and skilling straight into HAVs because they look like they should be an easy way to kill without being killed. My point is I'd be happy if they were like that, so long as you had to work your way up to them through the ranks of infantry, earning the right to drive such a vehicle, rather than what most do by just slogging it out in starter fits till they have the sp and isk to invest in them.

Case in point ... I have a second account passive training since launch waiting for vehicles to be sorted out so I can jump in them myself when I feel like it.

if you were to do that, the only way to keep the class alive is to buff tanks a lot because they aren't worth their current cost and certainly not a future cost if they remain as weak as they are.

lol you are so full of it void, you just went 17/0 against me in a match 5 minutes ago, yet your tank is so underpowered, no one else out of both teams had no deaths, only you, and thats still not powerful enough for ya? I really dont understand what will make tankers happy 50/0, 60/0 mabe. I'm guessing your KDR is at least 3-5 i'll check tomorrow, but seriously man just think about it...

That's more like progressing from STD, to ADV, to PROTO vehicles, not from infantry to vehicle.

What you proposed was more like needing to train manufacturing before piloting in EVE.

The rub with vehicles is that there are no starter fittings to fall back on and the SP and ISK requirements make them impossible to jump into as a new player. You would need to gather a lot of passive SP first and obtain a Corp or rich player as a sponsor.

I only got swarms fired at me 2 times the whole game, the rest of it I just fired at the objectives... not my fault your team failed to notice me.

Probably no tankers have gone above 50-0
My highest is 37. But that was when only 1 person was using militia swarms and there were no enemy squads.

I'm off now anyway ... debate class dismissed ... was just the way I thought vehicles should have been developed from those early beta stages, rather than completely separating the skill trees.