why is it that a handheld weapon is on par with a railgun turret thats like 10 metres long? and 300,000 isk ??? if you havent guessed it by now yes i am crying about forge guns being OP , i think the issue is that they have to mutch ammo in a clip 3-4 shots is to ridiculous for a weapon that doesnt even overheat like a railgun does!! what do you guys think ? cry some moar or HTFU?

I think asking for changes to items that are slated to be changed 2 patches down the road is a waste of energy and time.

Also you suck at analyzing; large rail turrets are better than forge guns.

I think asking for changes to items that are slated to be changed 2 patches down the road is a waste of energy and time.

Also you suck at analyzing; large rail turrets are better than forge guns.

Okay.... do large rails do more damage? nope
Are large rails highly mobile? Nope can only go where a tank can.
Are large rails adaptable? Nope, forge can be effectively used from inside a building, around a corner, on top of a building etc.. All places Large rail cannot.
Can large rails hide? Nope! they can be seen from the map view no matter where they go! (forges cannot)

That's a lot of benefits to Large Rails eh?.... waiit a minuuuttee...

Confirming wallaby takes pills to get his **** hard because hes a ******.

ITS A SCI GAME ***** **** CAN DO ANYTHING IT WANTS!

sssshhhhhhhhhhhhh youl confuse it... its a rare opportunity to see a bluetard in the forums..... if you confuse it, it will leave

Comparing Forge Guns to Rail Turrets is apples and oranges.

Forge Guns have highly visible shots. Even the fastest is nine times slower to fire on the trigger pull. At this time still have limited ammunition. Also are restricted to a crappy buffer tank suit.

It really is funny how some people are selective in their analyst. Especially when it is oh-so-conveniently to their own benefit.

I think the Forge guns damage is fine, they just need to raise the price of proto FGs to 900,00 ISK, and allow swarmers to lock onto heavies. simple fix

Okay.... do large rails do more damage? nope
Are large rails highly mobile? Nope can only go where a tank can.
Are large rails adaptable? Nope, forge can be effectively used from inside a building, around a corner, on top of a building etc.. All places Large rail cannot.
Can large rails hide? Nope! they can be seen from the map view no matter where they go! (forges cannot)

That's a lot of benefits to Large Rails eh?.... waiit a minuuuttee...

Yea, you really suck at analysis. Stay the hell away from anything that requires you to draw conclusions because its really not your strong suit.

Normally when you compare two things to find out which is better, you have to be objective and weigh the positives and negatives that each option has. Something you are clearly not capable of.

Because CCP hasn't released the intended forge gun changes they plan to make as part of their vehicle overhaul, I am forced to assume that you are talking about current forge guns and large rail turrets. In which case, as I stated before, is pointless to discuss because CCP already intends to change them. Having said that, for your benefit, i will bother to compare the two items in question.

Large rail turrets have significantly longer range and rate of fire than forge guns. Rail turrets also have the ability to ADS and zoom in where as forge guns do not. Large rail turrets have infinite ammo but are restricted by a overheat mechanic. Conversely, forge guns have limited ammo but do not have an overheat mechanic. Both items have to charge before firing, but the rail turret may skip the charging process for every shot immediately fired after the first charged shot. Large rail turrets are restricted in how high and low they can aim where the forge gun has no such restriction. Large rail turrets may still have target rendering issues. Rail turrets are used on tanks that are faster, larger and sturdier than the only class of suit that can equip a forge gun, heavy suits.

In conclusion, current large rail turrets have the advantage over forge guns in range, accuracy, ammunition and rate of fire. However rail turrets suffer from limitations in how high and low they can aim and tend to have target rendering issues. As for the platforms that equip the two items, tanks are faster and more sturdier than heavy suits. Although the smaller heavy suit has access to areas that a tank would be restricted from on the account of its large size.

ERROR! TLDR

Comparing Forge Guns to Rail Turrets is apples and oranges.

Forge Guns have highly visible shots. Even the fastest is nine times slower to fire on the trigger pull. At this time still have limited ammunition. Also are restricted to a crappy buffer tank suit.

It really is funny how some people are selective in their analyst. Especially when it is oh-so-conveniently to their own benefit.

Comparing Forge Guns to Rail Turrets is apples and oranges.

Forge Guns have highly visible shots. Even the fastest is nine times slower to fire on the trigger pull. At this time still have limited ammunition. Also are restricted to a crappy buffer tank suit.

It really is funny how some people are selective in their analyst. Especially when it is oh-so-conveniently to their own benefit.

Of course it's too large for your puny brain to process. My apologies... on your puny brain. Nature can be so cruel sometimes.

lol yes you clearly are to smart for us poor little blueberries to handle , talking cr@p on a forum (clap clap clap) run along now you champion

lol 9 times slower you say? yes it really is funny how people are "selective in their analyst" ! , total BS last time i checked a skilled assault forge will charge in roughly 2 secs !!

Tiny brain and easily broken I see. Quitting already?

Proto Raild DMG 1784
Proto IAF 1500

The Breach FG ( the only one that surpass Rail damage) Has a charge time of 6 sec, while a proto turret 2,2.

And also LOCK YOU ON THE GROUND....

ahahahahahah quitting? yes did you expect me to argue with you? lolwtf get a life

yes but with proficiency skilled up the charge time is reduced

lol 9 times slower you say? yes it really is funny how people are "selective in their analyst" ! , total BS last time i checked a skilled assault forge will charge in roughly 2 secs !!

(Base Assault Forge Gun Firing Time * FG Opt at 5) / Large Rail Firing Time

(2.5 * 0.75)/0.2 = 9.375

Hence Large Rail Turrets fire nine times faster than the fastest Forge Gun.

how many times do we have to go through this topic!! Its all getting changed anyway lol

FG = higher Alpha dmg/ on a suit

Rail gun = higher DPS (scope)/ on a tank

What is the problem? i mean really?

just sayin.....

You are not helping your cause at all. You fail to be objective, not to mention you completely contort the basis of analytical thinking. Trying to be a smart @ss and not even willing to discuss and counter points of the othee side is rude and makes you look ignorant and un informed.

You are not helping your cause at all. You fail to be objective, not to mention you completely contort the basis of analytical thinking. Trying to be a smart @ss and not even willing to discuss and counter points of the othee side is rude and makes you look ignorant and un informed.

Im sorry what have i missed? this topic HAS been done and redone many times, im sorry if ive hit a nerve but if your accusing me of not being objective then i can pretty much say the same of everyone else in this thread...

Heavies and tanks both have their advantages and disadvantages that trasfer to other weapon systems. You play to your advantages, yes a tank cant trundle down a corridor but it can pretty much ignore all small arms fire and take a serious beating besides.

Rail guns apply pinpoint high dmg shots at a high rate of fire, FG's are similar but at a lower rate of fire.

Please feel free to argue the point instead of being a bit of a douch

Compressed rail - 1800dmg
Breach FG - 2700dmg

Particle cannon - 1400dmg
IAFG - 1500dmg

FG is still stronger even tho its handheld and require 10x less fitting costs while it fires faster overall

Vehicle pilots cannot see FG because lolrendering, we cannot even see the blue ball of energy anymore, and the only way to kill them is with a direct hit because splash on the vehicle railgun got nerfed but on the FG it didnt

The breach FG doesnt lock out on the ground either, for some reason you can still move and hop around

The railgun in the vehicle rebalace is going to do about 2k dmg, the FG will get nerfed so it should do less than it does now because ya know something that requires a tank to use and fit and its 10times bigger aswell as 10times the fitting costs should do alot more damage

You dont think Rof matters at all?

How about the amount of dmg each can take?

Or the many many many other things that go for and against both?

snip

The railgun in the vehicle rebalace is going to do about 2k dmg, the FG will get nerfed so it should do less than it does now because ya know something that requires a tank to use and fit and its 10times bigger aswell as 10times the fitting costs should do alot more damage

Do you really think the Dev's are so stupid they will nerf Forge Guns because of the Forum Metagame?

yes we all know the railgun has faster rof , but it also overheats quickly , it cannot duck behind corners or drop onto rooftops and fire down onto the field , it also has a ridiculous turret which cannot hit high targets !

33% nerf currently

If my railgun has ammo then it should be alot stronger than a FG with ammo because its bigger/more powerful and requires a ******* tank to use

You dont think Rof matters at all?

How about the amount of dmg each can take?

Or the many many many other things that go for and against both?

Get an IAFG, faster ROF/more dmg/more splash/kills infantry better than a railgun can/cheaper to buy/tower camp like a boss/dmg mods in highs doesnt effect tank

Tank with best railgun/requires alot of SP and ISK for the tank so it can survive against proto AV, railgun itself has less damage/overheats/less splash/costs alot more ISK/crap against infantry unless you dmg mods it out the ass but may reduce your tank if you armor tank

Ok... overheat can be managed and still vastly outstrip the FG. Railgun tanks duck behind cover, and use high ground all the time.
Tanks and turrets in general have elevation problems... there are ways round this.



No numbers have been given for AV yet

... keep the arguments coming...

Wolfmans desk

33% nerf they are looking at

Let's Hope CCP dont screw the LAST heavy weapon.

We have sooooooooo many Heavy Weap.

Ive killed a heavy with a flux grenade...

Rof? range? Dmg? Ammo? Charge? Splash? NEED MOAR

there is a real sickness in this game.. i'm convinced that is mostly coming from AV. I dunno maybe?

why is it that a handheld weapon is on par with a railgun turret thats like 10 metres long? and 300,000 isk ??? if you havent guessed it by now yes i am crying about forge guns being OP , i think the issue is that they have to mutch ammo in a clip 3-4 shots is to ridiculous for a weapon that doesnt even overheat like a railgun does!! what do you guys think ? cry some moar or HTFU?

As said in too many post the only problem is Tower-Forgin but ESPECIALLY render distance.

will charge in roughly 2 secs !!

I'll just say what I said in the other Crybaby Tanker thread:

What you aren't thinking about is the fact that there are literally only FOUR weapons in this entire game that are not capable of killing a Heavy. These being AV grenades, Flux grenads, Proximity Mines, and Swarm Launchers. Every other weapon has the potential to kill a Heavy.
So, lets list the weapons capable of killing a Heavy Lets see...

Assault Rifle
Scrambler Rifle
Sniper Rifle
Shotgun
Mass Driver
Plasma Cannon
HMG
Forge Gun
Scrambler Pistol
Flaylock Pistol
SMG
Remote Explosives
Nova Knife
Locus Grenades

Take into account the different variants of these and there is A LOT of weapons on the field which can kill a Heavy, which are by and far much more prevalent on the battlefield than AV weapons. Indeed 100% of players on the battlefield are carrying at least 1 weapon which is capable of killing a Heavy at any given point in a match.

Lets see what can effectively destroy a HAV

AV Grenades
Swarm Launchers
Forge Guns
Proximity Mines

These maybe account for 10% of all weapons fielded in battle at any given time

Now take into account that your HAV has thousands more HP than a Heavy Dropsuit, with more speed. Your rail turrets have a zoom ability where a Forge Gun does not, a higher RoF, No reload time, No charge time.

I'll also add that Tank turrets both small and large can kill a Heavy Much Much MUCH MUCH faster than they can destroy a HAV. The same is true for Installation turrets.

Exhibit A

-Observe how the AV user opens his post specifically stating "Crybaby Tanker" a juvenile insult tactic to make himself feel more empowered in.... The childish insult arena?

-Notice how the heavy list is "capable of" while the tank list is "effective".
If you were to swap those two blurbs around you would have to remove the sniper, shotgun, HMG, flaylock and nova knife. Then you'd have to add to the tank side mass driver, plasma cannon, remote explosives, uh.. And the rocks on the terrain. All of which I have used to take out tanks... Except for the rocks of course.

Exhibit A

-Observe how the AV user opens his post specifically stating "Crybaby Tanker" a juvenile insult tactic to make himself feel more empowered in.... The childish insult arena?

-Notice how the heavy list is "capable of" while the tank list is "effective".
If you were to swap those two blurbs around you would have to remove the sniper, shotgun, HMG, flaylock and nova knife. Then you'd have to add to the tank side mass driver, plasma cannon, remote explosives, uh.. And the rocks on the terrain. All of which I have used to take out tanks... Except for the rocks of course.

Im sorry what have i missed? this topic HAS been done and redone many times, im sorry if ive hit a nerve but if your accusing me of not being objective then i can pretty much say the same of everyone else in this thread...

Heavies and tanks both have their advantages and disadvantages that trasfer to other weapon systems. You play to your advantages, yes a tank cant trundle down a corridor but it can pretty much ignore all small arms fire and take a serious beating besides.

Rail guns apply pinpoint high dmg shots at a high rate of fire, FG's are similar but at a lower rate of fire.

Please feel free to argue the point instead of being a bit of a douch

I was even talking about you! I was talking to Wallaby.


What a dumb@as...

Raw damage from the Ishukone AFG is higher than 1600, actually...

...but the real numbers are different.

FG Proficiency Level 5

A/1 Series with 2 Complex Damage Mods

Total +35%

Let's be objective here.

Yeah... No point replying to people who are crude.

At least half the tankers can crack a joke every now and then, but a good majority of the AV "specialists" seem to go all angsty 13 year old child. One who is trying to hump his computer screen while thinking his boring text makes him sound tough... You know they'll read just enough to reply like a robot, and not think about it enough to reply like a human. Not to say it doesn't also go the other way, but it is seeming like most of the juvenile snark comes from AV.

But seriously, they don't read, they don't think, they just try to insult while others look on with sheer boredom.

I can effectively kill a heavy with a sniper, shotgun, flaylock, or HMG. I've heard the nova knife is good at killing heavies too as long as you get close enough.

Many of your gripes with others apply to Wallaby1, Void_Echo, and you yourself. Its funny that you feel you have the right to berate others for what you yourself are guilty of.

Also I do believe I told you to stay the hell away from anything that requires you to draw conclusions because your inability to be objective. You don't have to go out of your way to prove me right you know.

Many of your gripes with others apply to Wallaby1, Void_Echo, and you yourself. Its funny that you feel you have the right to berate others for what you yourself are guilty of.

Also I do believe I told you to stay the hell away from anything that requires you to draw conclusions because your inability to be objective. You don't have to go out of your way to prove me right you know.

Exhibit B:
-Subject is both boastful and feels cornered, so turns to an attempt at petty insults and vague personal attacks.
-Observe how the AV user quoted here refused to actually read the post he quoted.

I see it's your tactic to avoid directly confronting the points made against you. Not that you could; that would require a spine, something you lack. You completely ignore my last rebuttal and now you won't even touch the points that i criticise you on. Hell, you won't even address me directly. Yet you speak of petty insults and refusing to read quoted posts?

Also to prove your inability to be objective, where is it ever implied that I am spec'd into AV? Only in your posts? Funny, what lead you to believe that i have any SP invested to AV?... You assumed because I disagree with you and you chose to label me something derogatory to you, AV. You despise AV, it is quite literally a tanker's bane. Yet I do not have a single SP invested into AV. You are so biased that you unable to draw solid conclusions.

Dude... You've obviously plugged your eyes over. You're not going to say anything constructive nor useful.... why should anyone reply to you?

To make you feel some semblance of importance?
You're whipping yourself like a sad, soggy puppy left out to shiver in the rain... o_o;

I think we should still bring up the obvious fact that the render issue has screwed up the rail ads to a point where you're aiming at invisimercs and invisitanks
Not to mention the fg has better splash damage and damage per shot
Also has anyone seen a rail tank 1 shot another tank?

i dont understand what your problem is pal , i haven't been trying to insult any1 except that 1 idiot who was an obvious troll ,i dont know why people like you have to come along with their smug sarcastic BS acting all high and mighty , i can just imagine you writing that sentence with your eyes closed

You are not helping your cause at all. You fail to be objective, not to mention you completely contort the basis of analytical thinking. Trying to be a smart @ss and not even willing to discuss and counter points of the other side is rude and makes you look ignorant and uninformed.

33% across the board is the magic number atm

Still tho it doesnt look good enough

Yeah... No point replying to people who are crude.

At least half the tankers can crack a joke every now and then, but a good majority of the AV "specialists" seem to go all angsty 13 year old child. One who is trying to hump his computer screen while thinking his boring text makes him sound tough... You know they'll read just enough to reply like a robot, and not think about it enough to reply like a human. Not to say it doesn't also go the other way, but it is seeming like most of the juvenile snark comes from AV.

But seriously, they don't read, they don't think, they just try to insult while others look on with sheer boredom.

Sigh, let me explain how this is balanced (Weapon Wise, AV is certainly much to strong right now)

FG. Fastest refire rate, one every two and a half seconds.

Rails. Fastest refire rate, .6 or something like that seconds.

Rails-DPS.

Forges-Alpha Strike.

You have that reversed there kiddo. You really need to stop trying to have this entire game cater to your style of play. There's been a political campaign to get anything that can be used for AV to be nerfed to ineffectiveness. "Nuclear Baseballs," referring to the slowest firing class weapon in the game as "Rapid Firing."

It's pretty sad your method of argument is demonizing those who disagree with you. Good Forum Metagame.

Plasma... Cannons? Also I think they called those grenade things un needed because You can throw 4 for about 6-8k damage then switch to a swarm? Both of which do home in on their target.
Imagine if there were grenades that homed in on infantry or a flaylock that did? You can't say you wouldn't be complaining about that.

DeadlyAztec11 summarized it quite well didn't he? Regardless of intent, you have obviously offended someone. And there was no sarcasm when I called you stupid.

PS: It takes great skill to type a sentence with one's eyes closed. I'm so glad you noticed that one sentence. I was beginning worry that no one would notice. <<< This is sarcasm.

!facepalm! , please be relevant to the original post and stop **** stirring i dont have to love your opinions and you dont have to love mine , but your comments are worthless to the point and only serve to make yourself seem like an ultra elitist d0uchebag

It's funny that you still believe your thread topic is still relevant after several people have already explained why it's currently pointless to discuss. Oh right, you don't have enough brain capacity to actually read you own thread. I really should be more considerate to your... handicap.

You want me to stop trolling you... Whats the matter, can dish it out but can't take it?

how am i dishing it out...? half the thread is your comments talking cr@p to people, honestly man the way you talk to people is absolute rubbish , its clear you THINK you're very intelligent , you accuse half the people on this thread of being idiots because there opinions differ to your own then you accuse me of being offensive and a troll? wtf!? whatever bro your clearly way to yoloswag intelligent for me to handle.

why is it that a handheld weapon is on par with a railgun turret thats like 10 metres long? and 300,000 isk ??? if you havent guessed it by now yes i am crying about forge guns being OP , i think the issue is that they have to mutch ammo in a clip 3-4 shots is to ridiculous for a weapon that doesnt even overheat like a railgun does!! what do you guys think ? cry some moar or HTFU?

why is it that a handheld weapon is on par with a railgun turret thats like 10 metres long? and 300,000 isk ??? if you havent guessed it by now yes i am crying about forge guns being OP , i think the issue is that they have to mutch ammo in a clip 3-4 shots is to ridiculous for a weapon that doesnt even overheat like a railgun does!! what do you guys think ? cry some moar or HTFU?

Correction idiot, I have only called you stupid. I called the other guy spineless.