The reason I bring this up is that I see an ISK sink in FW will lead to an even bigger incentive to play passive in pub matches as people grind for ISK to support their FW habit.

This is such utter crap. " the only way to make money...". You obv don't know ' the only way'. All you people want to do is advocate for Your Preferred Way.

Keep isk valuable. Make loss hurt. Make profitability matter. Can't run proto in pubs and be profitable? Good. Find another way to play or go broke.

I'm not complaining about an individual match, I'm talking about the economics of Dust.


If you were a real Merc, would you be willing to work if you could field mid level gear for finishing at the top of the match and making less than a guy who contributed zero on the losing side?

More than likely you'd just sit in the redline too, but because we are playing a video game many people foolishly decide to participate in winning the match.

Okay, I'll build play in my BPO sniper suit. That'll be more fun for everyone right?

Do you believe that going earning 2000 WP and winning a match while losing 6 ADV suits which is well within the norm for the guy at the top of the leaderboard should profit LESS than that guy at the bottom of the leaderboard with 50 WP and a 0-0?

This is the reality and I find it hard to believe that people are actually okay with this.

First, i was talking about economics. Advance gear is apparently too expensive for someone of your caliber to run profitably.

Second, don't reference real life for a game scenario. If I was a REAL merc, I wouldn't be competing in a meaningless match where people die. Scoreboards and money tend to lose their value when you're really dead.

Third, I always run standard/militia fits, spend majority of my time outside the redline and normally rank among the top ten on my team. It is not foolish to play a competitive game to win. It is however stupid to bother playing a competitive game with no intention of winning.

I'll tell you what I believe in. I believe in a balanced game that, even for the majority of people that choose to slog through pub stomps and suck at fps games still turns out somehow to be fun and compelling to play. And I don't believe in providing the pub stomping minority with imbalances payouts to fund thier prototype stomping ways. I would like a game where the gear you choose to use and lose comes with a palpable cost. And that cost should always, regardless of your skill, be a serious consideration.

And I further don't believe in creating a sandbox FPSMMO game with a weak ass economy. And having any MMO with out proper wealth sinks and income/ inflation controls leads to an I balanced game.

Learn to make isk with basic gear. Or adv gear or prototype. But keep isk and cost a very important part of dust. It's damn near the only hope this game has left.

I laid out a scenario in the OP where I would likely earn 350K ISK and for a net gain of 110K which isn't bad. My problem is that the guy at the bottom with 50 WP probably earned 150K.

What would be so bad about the guy at the top earning more and the guy not generating any WP not getting much at all?

The dude at the bottom would more than likely try to generate some WP and in the process create a more fun gaming experience for everyone involved if it were the only way for him to earn any ISK.

I have always had an issue with this, but I see MORE people playing passively in pubs to grind ISK so they go earn LP in FW. Those same guys will likely do the same thing in FW because there isn't any inecentive to win or perform better there either.

This isn't a difficult concept to wrap your head around. I want to see more incentive to play hard and I want to see people who don't penalized. In other words I want my favorite video game to be fun. I don't want to have to grind in crap gear and I don't want to move along the redline looking for red dots like a tiger in a cage.

So judging by the responses here. Everybody but me runs a 3.0 KDR in pubs running standard gear.

It's weird because I play a lot and I see people going sub 2.0 and a lot of negative.

When do you guys play? And why aren't you guys holding a bunch of districts in PC?

Lol, I made a mistake thinking I could get some sensible talk on the forums.

I laid out a scenario in the OP where I would likely earn 350K ISK and for a net gain of 110K which isn't bad. My problem is that the guy at the bottom with 50 WP probably earned 150K.

What would be so bad about the guy at the top earning more and the guy not generating any WP not getting much at all?

The dude at the bottom would more than likely try to generate some WP and in the process create a more fun gaming experience for everyone involved if it were the only way for him to earn any ISK.

I have always had an issue with this, but I see MORE people playing passively in pubs to grind ISK so they go earn LP in FW. Those same guys will likely do the same thing in FW because there isn't any inecentive to win or perform better there either.

This isn't a difficult concept to wrap your head around. I want to see more incentive to play hard and I want to see people who don't penalized. In other words I want my favorite video game to be fun. I don't want to have to grind in crap gear and I don't want to move along the redline looking for red dots like a tiger in a cage.

Dude, your inner ******* is showing.
What do you mean,"the dude at the bottom would more than li,ely TRY to generate some WP"? Such a jerk.

We are trying. And we are trying to have fun trying. What exactly do you think will motivate a player who happens to find himself at the bottom of every score board to keep playing? Giving him the short end of the financial stick in order that you can use more expensive gear to kill him faster?

So 6 ADV suits is too reckless? How many would be considered ideal?

And how fun is that?

18-6 with 2000 WP would be considered a decent match by any stretch

18:6 is a total disaster, if you only used ADV gear.
This means you died in 1 of 4 encounters, which you choose to fight. Terrible.

I always thought the game was adapted his isk reward in proportion to the total WP.
And I think a reward for mere participation is bullshit.

Go make your money ! Work in New Eden is serious business ! (sorry for my english)

We don't fight for money like real mercenaries do, rather we pay money for the privilege of fighting.

There are no luxury goods or vacations to buy with our wages, only weapons to be used to fight with.
There is no cost of living, we could just park ourselves in quarters and "live" for nothing.
There is nothing to beyond war toys to spend our fortunes on, so what is our motivation to fight?

We pay for the privilege of earning experience so we get better at fighting.
We fight for entertainment. It's an end in itself.

Realistic ISK sinks would mimic real life money sinks, stuff you want unrelated to going to work.

We don't fight for money like real mercenaries do, rather we pay money for the privilege of fighting.

There are no luxury goods or vacations to buy with our wages, only weapons to be used to fight with.
There is no cost of living, we could just park ourselves in quarters and "live" for nothing.
There is nothing to beyond war toys to spend our fortunes on, so what is our motivation to fight?

We pay for the privilege of earning experience so we get better at fighting.
We fight for entertainment. It's an end in itself.

Realistic ISK sinks would mimic real life money sinks, stuff you want unrelated to going to work.

Lol, nice math.

And I'll be posting the KDRs of all these bad asses in this thread that claim 3.0 is terrible

This is exactly what I'm talking about. It seems crazy that so many people are not only okay with it, but seem to cherish it.

18:6 is a total disaster, if you only used ADV gear.
This means you died in 1 of 4 encounters, which you choose to fight. Terrible.

You've proved my point again. All this talk of profiting from LP gear in the secondary market, how if the demand isn't that high? Remember the gear will cost ISK in addition to LP.

If you factor in ISK lost during FW battles how many of these things do you plan on selling?

... um, 1 in 3. If you're going to be a douchebag, at least try to be right.

In any case, he's doing hell of a lot better than me, and in any case, if you haven't noticed...

New Eden is not a place for KD/R brats. It's a place for scheming geniuses, dastardly minds with dirty, conniving plots up their sleeves, where life isn't fair, and cults filled with tear-drinking insomniacs stomp your paper target wearing excuse for advanced gear in their Proto gear with Complex kit. Harden. The f**k. Up. Oh... and stop being a try hard.

-Irish

Lol, nice math.

And I'll be posting the KDRs of all these bad asses in this thread that claim 3.0 is terrible

the only effective counter is to field proto gear yourself, and their stats are out of proportion compared to everything else, and given the sheer number of people around running proto, soon it's going to be proto and nothing else, it already is in PC if you actually want to win the battle, and you'll run into at least 1 proto player in any given pub match. What do you think it will be like for new players a year down the line, when a large proportion of the player base is running proto gear?