DUST Search - The Mythical need for an ISK sink

deepfried salad gilliam wrote:

Thor Odinson42 wrote:

deepfried salad gilliam wrote:

Thor Odinson42 wrote:

I also discount the vibrancy of the secondary market for officer gear and FW variants of weapons and gear.

1) most people don't run and can't afford to run a ton of proto very often.

2) the people who can are good enough that they won't burn through it enough to create a market vibrant enough to support 1000s of players

People will always want officer stuff
Especially for pc or to stockpile for some awesome event
Whether it be sell or use for event, because people use a pot more good stuf for good events

How much will they want, how will they afford it? By playing passively and grinding in cheap suits?

Or are you talking about guys like Regnum who don't use it, don't need to use it, and wouldn't have to buy enough of it to help you turn a profit in FW.

I've only seen one Thale in PC in nearly 100 PC matches. Never seen any other officer weapons.

The laws of supply and demand my friend
If people don't want to use them the prices will drop till someone does
Or rise accordingly

The economy conforms to the people in it.

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Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1643	Posted - 2013.10.21 02:42:00 - [1] - Quote I'm going to try and keep this simple as I'm typing this on an iPad. First off you can run ADV gear in a pub match and die 6 times and fail to turn a profit. I think this is bullshit. Especially when I win the match meanwhile some dude on the opposing team hid in the redline and profited 200K. I believe the data CCP used to determine the need for an ISK sinks comes from two areas. 1) BPO running guy who grinds in crap gear saving 100s of millions of ISK for god knows what. 2) the select few who have been highly successful in PC I think these two areas make up a very small percentage of the player base. I believe that my first point is the area that needs to be addressed to make pub matches more fun. I firmly believe an 18-6 match with 2000+ WP in ADV suits should be profitable if you win the match. I don't believe I should be expected to run standard gear in pub matches after accumulating 27 million SP over the course of 10 months to turn a profit. My ADV suit is around 40K, dying 6 times costs me 240K. Usually this would be a small profit, but not all the time. Am I off base thinking that changing this dynamic would lead to more intense battles in pub matches?
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1643	Posted - 2013.10.21 02:44:00 - [2] - Quote The reason I bring this up is that I see an ISK sink in FW will lead to an even bigger incentive to play passive in pub matches as people grind for ISK to support their FW habit.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1643	Posted - 2013.10.21 02:45:00 - [3] - Quote I also discount the vibrancy of the secondary market for officer gear and FW variants of weapons and gear. 1) most people don't run and can't afford to run a ton of proto very often. 2) the people who can are good enough that they won't burn through it enough to create a market vibrant enough to support 1000s of players
ReGnYuM MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 1140	Posted - 2013.10.21 02:48:00 - [4] - Quote If everybody was rich, what would be the point to being rich hmmmm
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 85	Posted - 2013.10.21 02:50:00 - [5] - Quote Don't play so recklessly and set a limit on how many adv your willing to lose
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1644	Posted - 2013.10.21 02:53:00 - [6] - Quote deepfried salad gilliam wrote: Don't play so recklessly and set a limit on how many adv your willing to lose So 6 ADV suits is too reckless? How many would be considered ideal? And how fun is that? 18-6 with 2000 WP would be considered a decent match by any stretch
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 85	Posted - 2013.10.21 02:53:00 - [7] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I also discount the vibrancy of the secondary market for officer gear and FW variants of weapons and gear. 1) most people don't run and can't afford to run a ton of proto very often. 2) the people who can are good enough that they won't burn through it enough to create a market vibrant enough to support 1000s of players People will always want officer stuff Especially for pc or to stockpile for some awesome event Whether it be sell or use for event, because people use a pot more good stuf for good events
Cakes Public Relations Murder Cakes Of Doom 23	Posted - 2013.10.21 02:53:00 - [8] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: If everybody was rich, what would be the point to being rich hmmmm Woah no need to be philisophical... want some tears?
medomai grey WarRavens League of Infamy 248	Posted - 2013.10.21 02:54:00 - [9] - Quote If you want to make isk, run cheap fits. If you want to perform better in a meaningless pub match, run your expensive fits. Just don't complain that you didn't make a profit.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1644	Posted - 2013.10.21 02:56:00 - [10] - Quote deepfried salad gilliam wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I also discount the vibrancy of the secondary market for officer gear and FW variants of weapons and gear. 1) most people don't run and can't afford to run a ton of proto very often. 2) the people who can are good enough that they won't burn through it enough to create a market vibrant enough to support 1000s of players People will always want officer stuff Especially for pc or to stockpile for some awesome event Whether it be sell or use for event, because people use a pot more good stuf for good events How much will they want, how will they afford it? By playing passively and grinding in cheap suits? Or are you talking about guys like Regnum who don't use it, don't need to use it, and wouldn't have to buy enough of it to help you turn a profit in FW. I've only seen one Thale in PC in nearly 100 PC matches. Never seen any other officer weapons.

deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 85	Posted - 2013.10.21 02:56:00 - [11] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: deepfried salad gilliam wrote: Don't play so recklessly and set a limit on how many adv your willing to lose So 6 ADV suits is too reckless? How many would be considered ideal? And how fun is that? 18-6 with 2000 WP would be considered a decent match by any stretch 18-6 with std gear is good 18-3 with adv 18-0 with proto An old eve saying comes to mind, well 2 "Don't run what you can't afford to lose" And " welcome to new eden"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3415	Posted - 2013.10.21 02:57:00 - [12] - Quote deepfried salad gilliam wrote: Don't play so recklessly and set a limit on how many adv your willing to lose Its different for me though. I used to hit the dirt with boots on the ground but now I tank. Any and all of my tank fits cost more than the ISK play out for any game mode besides PC. I am gambling in tanking. 1M+ ISK investment, I can 1.) Roll out and play well keeping my tank alive and killing a lot of people. 2.) Hide in the Redline or 3.) Tank is destroyed and I lose 550+ K ISK. SO.... Hide or Die.... or Kill on a rampage.... or simply not call in for my own personal boredom.... what shall I do?
ThePrinceOfNigeria Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 117	Posted - 2013.10.21 02:57:00 - [13] - Quote This is just going to make Pub Stomping 10x worse than it is right now and in turn lead to more people quitting the game.
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 85	Posted - 2013.10.21 02:59:00 - [14] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: deepfried salad gilliam wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I also discount the vibrancy of the secondary market for officer gear and FW variants of weapons and gear. 1) most people don't run and can't afford to run a ton of proto very often. 2) the people who can are good enough that they won't burn through it enough to create a market vibrant enough to support 1000s of players People will always want officer stuff Especially for pc or to stockpile for some awesome event Whether it be sell or use for event, because people use a pot more good stuf for good events How much will they want, how will they afford it? By playing passively and grinding in cheap suits? Or are you talking about guys like Regnum who don't use it, don't need to use it, and wouldn't have to buy enough of it to help you turn a profit in FW. I've only seen one Thale in PC in nearly 100 PC matches. Never seen any other officer weapons. The laws of supply and demand my friend If people don't want to use them the prices will drop till someone does Or rise accordingly The economy conforms to the people in it.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1645	Posted - 2013.10.21 03:00:00 - [15] - Quote medomai grey wrote: If you want to make isk, run cheap fits. If you want to perform better in a meaningless pub match, run your expensive fits. Just don't complain that you didn't make a profit. I'm not complaining about an individual match, I'm talking about the economics of Dust. If you were a real Merc, would you be willing to work if you could field mid level gear for finishing at the top of the match and making less than a guy who contributed zero on the losing side? More than likely you'd just sit in the redline too, but because we are playing a video game many people foolishly decide to participate in winning the match.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1645	Posted - 2013.10.21 03:01:00 - [16] - Quote deepfried salad gilliam wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: deepfried salad gilliam wrote: Don't play so recklessly and set a limit on how many adv your willing to lose So 6 ADV suits is too reckless? How many would be considered ideal? And how fun is that? 18-6 with 2000 WP would be considered a decent match by any stretch 18-6 with std gear is good 18-3 with adv 18-0 with proto An old eve saying comes to mind, well 2 "Don't run what you can't afford to lose" And " welcome to new eden" How many people run a 3.0 KDR in standard gear? Very few, you are proving my point.
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 85	Posted - 2013.10.21 03:02:00 - [17] - Quote True Adamance wrote: deepfried salad gilliam wrote: Don't play so recklessly and set a limit on how many adv your willing to lose Its different for me though. I used to hit the dirt with boots on the ground but now I tank. Any and all of my tank fits cost more than the ISK play out for any game mode besides PC. I am gambling in tanking. 1M+ ISK investment, I can 1.) Roll out and play well keeping my tank alive and killing a lot of people. 2.) Hide in the Redline or 3.) Tank is destroyed and I lose 550+ K ISK. SO.... Hide or Die.... or Kill on a rampage.... or simply not call in for my own personal boredom.... what shall I do? Whatever ypu can afford, but tank are way to expensive considering the op-ness of av lol but that's another thread
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 267	Posted - 2013.10.21 03:02:00 - [18] - Quote Cakes Public Relations wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: If everybody was rich, what would be the point to being rich hmmmm Woah no need to be philisophical... want some tears? You cakes gotta learn those are called sugar sprinkles.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1645	Posted - 2013.10.21 03:05:00 - [19] - Quote medomai grey wrote: If you want to make isk, run cheap fits. If you want to perform better in a meaningless pub match, run your expensive fits. Just don't complain that you didn't make a profit. How much PC do you play in compared to the amount of pub matches you run?
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 85	Posted - 2013.10.21 03:06:00 - [20] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: deepfried salad gilliam wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: deepfried salad gilliam wrote: Don't play so recklessly and set a limit on how many adv your willing to lose So 6 ADV suits is too reckless? How many would be considered ideal? And how fun is that? 18-6 with 2000 WP would be considered a decent match by any stretch 18-6 with std gear is good 18-3 with adv 18-0 with proto An old eve saying comes to mind, well 2 "Don't run what you can't afford to lose" And " welcome to new eden" How many people run a 3.0 KDR in standard gear? Very few, you are proving my point. Are we talking good or average Of course you can't do avg in anything above std and make profit

True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3416	Posted - 2013.10.21 03:07:00 - [21] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: deepfried salad gilliam wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: deepfried salad gilliam wrote: Don't play so recklessly and set a limit on how many adv your willing to lose So 6 ADV suits is too reckless? How many would be considered ideal? And how fun is that? 18-6 with 2000 WP would be considered a decent match by any stretch 18-6 with std gear is good 18-3 with adv 18-0 with proto An old eve saying comes to mind, well 2 "Don't run what you can't afford to lose" And " welcome to new eden" How many people run a 3.0 KDR in standard gear? Very few, you are proving my point. Oh I DO. I'm a tanker! I only have access to standard gear.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1646	Posted - 2013.10.21 03:09:00 - [22] - Quote ThePrinceOfNigeria wrote: This is just going to make Pub Stomping 10x worse than it is right now and in turn lead to more people quitting the game. I'd rather see pub matches limited to ADV gear than see a player with 50 WP turn a better profit than a dude with a 3.0 KDR and 2000 WP on the winning side.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1646	Posted - 2013.10.21 03:13:00 - [23] - Quote deepfried salad gilliam wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: deepfried salad gilliam wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I also discount the vibrancy of the secondary market for officer gear and FW variants of weapons and gear. 1) most people don't run and can't afford to run a ton of proto very often. 2) the people who can are good enough that they won't burn through it enough to create a market vibrant enough to support 1000s of players People will always want officer stuff Especially for pc or to stockpile for some awesome event Whether it be sell or use for event, because people use a pot more good stuf for good events How much will they want, how will they afford it? By playing passively and grinding in cheap suits? Or are you talking about guys like Regnum who don't use it, don't need to use it, and wouldn't have to buy enough of it to help you turn a profit in FW. I've only seen one Thale in PC in nearly 100 PC matches. Never seen any other officer weapons. The laws of supply and demand my friend If people don't want to use them the prices will drop till someone does Or rise accordingly The economy conforms to the people in it. You've proved my point again. All this talk of profiting from LP gear in the secondary market, how if the demand isn't that high? Remember the gear will cost ISK in addition to LP. If you factor in ISK lost during FW battles how many of these things do you plan on selling?
RedZer0 MK1 The Generals EoN. 85	Posted - 2013.10.21 03:21:00 - [24] - Quote The payout is too low, its crazy. The only way to make money is to DOMINATE or hang out in the red line (pubs). Which favors great players, but leaves people with ~1.0 kdr forced into usuing subpar (standard) gear to even break even.
Meeko Fent DUST University Ivy League 1234	Posted - 2013.10.21 03:22:00 - [25] - Quote You can go positive in ADV... My ADV fits cost 30k, so I can die like 6 times and go positive. What's your issue?
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 7075	Posted - 2013.10.21 03:22:00 - [26] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: If everybody was rich, what would be the point to being rich hmmmm FEED THE HOMELESS ::HAV modules take a smoke break under fire, followed shortly after by an explosion::
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1646	Posted - 2013.10.21 03:27:00 - [27] - Quote RedZer0 MK1 wrote: The payout is too low, its crazy. The only way to make money is to DOMINATE or hang out in the red line (pubs). Which favors great players, but leaves people with ~1.0 kdr forced into usuing subpar (standard) gear to even break even. This is exactly what I'm talking about. It seems crazy that so many people are not only okay with it, but seem to cherish it.
howard sanchez expert intervention Caldari State 786	Posted - 2013.10.21 03:30:00 - [28] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: RedZer0 MK1 wrote: The payout is too low, its crazy. The only way to make money is to DOMINATE or hang out in the red line (pubs). Which favors great players, but leaves people with ~1.0 kdr forced into usuing subpar (standard) gear to even break even. This is exactly what I'm talking about. It seems crazy that so many people are not only okay with it, but seem to cherish it. This is such utter crap. " the only way to make money...". You obv don't know ' the only way'. All you people want to do is advocate for Your Preferred Way. Keep isk valuable. Make loss hurt. Make profitability matter. Can't run proto in pubs and be profitable? Good. Find another way to play or go broke.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1646	Posted - 2013.10.21 03:31:00 - [29] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: You can go positive in ADV... My ADV fits cost 30k, so I can die like 6 times and go positive. What's your issue? I explained it, it's clear. And I did say you can go positive, but you aren't earning as much as the guy who got 50 WP in the red zone. That's a valid issue or am I insane?
21yrOld Knight Pradox XVI 210	Posted - 2013.10.21 03:32:00 - [30] - Quote I'm sorry but if you die more then 6 times in a match using adv. gear and you still don't make a profit then your not that good. Or you are a logi. That would be a different story.



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