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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Kain Spero
TeamPlayers EoN.
2106
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 19:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
An update to keep you all posted on the current state of things with the Council of Planetary Management:
http://hansshotfirst.blogspot.com/2013/10/cpm-activity-report-8-october-16-2013.html |
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
709
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 19:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
it took you a long time to figure out how to write the same old qq post again? |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9481
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 19:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
I urge folks to read this one, it is rather important to the CPM and by extension to you guys. |
lordjanuz
Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men.
194
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 19:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
+1 very nice read, keep up the good work, I know I have also been critical , but this was good. :) |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2849
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 19:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Good write up, but the same message could of been sent in much fewer words. So much filler |
General John Ripper
TeamPlayers EoN.
3668
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 19:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
approved by me |
Sir Dukey
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
210
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 19:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
CPMs of dust are fking terrible |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1840
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 19:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
My feelings exactly , I'm glad to hear we'll hear something, thanks for fighting for great influence for the CPM. Get it warm for me |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
1107
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 19:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
Thanks for the heads up peeps. Afaic, the CPM has done their part of the job. |
Flix Keptick
Red Star. EoN.
778
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 20:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Good news indeed !!! |
|
dreth longbow
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 20:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sounds like fluff, bunny anyone? |
Kain Spero
TeamPlayers EoN.
2110
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 20:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
The real litmus test will be CCP's response this week, which I know the CPM eagerly awaits. |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
4234
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 20:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
So... How hilarious would it be if CCP were to use the statement to dissolve the CPM system ("to allow for more creative breathing room") and announce Facebook integration (because that's what we've been demanding, right?)? |
Zion Shad
ZionTCD
1902
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 21:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Good going CPM guys
...and Kain ty for the help in the PC bat the other day bro |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
3946
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 21:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:So... How hilarious would it be if CCP were to use the statement to dissolve the CPM system ("to allow for more creative breathing room") and announce Facebook integration (because that's what we've been demanding, right?)? 1/10. I give you that much because it's almost remotely plausible. |
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
4086
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 21:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:So... How hilarious would it be if CCP were to use the statement to dissolve the CPM system ("to allow for more creative breathing room") and announce Facebook integration (because that's what we've been demanding, right?)?
YO! Facebook integration is the ****! EVERY game is doing it now! It must be a good thing! |
Bad Heal
PwNdCaKeSnRapLeSyrup
77
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 21:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
Waste of time, thanks. I hope CCP gets rid of CPM. Why do they even talk to you? They're wasting time that could be better spent on this game in a variety of ways.
Hopefully the future that was mentioned is CPM free. Its nothing more than an elite fanboy club.
|
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
1968
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
These CPM guys are horrible, farming likes off of their councilmates' threads.
Clearly they have no sense of humility, and all of them should be burned at the stake! |
Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
2048
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:05:00 -
[19] - Quote
Nice to see that the CPM can't spell "Rogue", by the way. I'm sure the EP doesn't enjoy being called by a type of make-up... |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9489
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
Nova Knife wrote:These CPM guys are horrible, farming likes off of their councilmates' threads. Clearly they have no sense of humility, and all of them should be burned at the stake!
I know right we should burn the entire establishment down and start over with a twitter council. Every decision only 200 characters long. |
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Thor McStrut
Reckoners
235
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Nice to see that the CPM can't spell "Rogue", by the way. I'm sure the EP doesn't enjoy being called by a type of make-up...
Don't you look silly... |
Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
2048
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
So, SoonGäó?
|
David Spd
Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State
73
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
I'm sorry but the more I read this stuff the more I ask myself, "What's the point of the CPM?" I'm not privy to these discussions, obviously, but why the need for any middleman?
Couldn't CCP theoretically create a team and dedicate them to doing the jobs you guys are doing? Other companies have things called community managers that do their jobs quite well. Why is CCP not taking it upon themselves to HIRE people that are trained for this type of stuff?
Seems to me that as long as the middle-man is present (along with this "political" nonsense surrounding CPM members) things will be dragged out and down more than they need to be.
Tell me I'm wrong? |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9490
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:18:00 -
[24] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Nice to see that the CPM can't spell "Rogue", by the way. I'm sure the EP doesn't enjoy being called by a type of make-up...
Wrong type of Rogue
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9491
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:19:00 -
[25] - Quote
David Spd wrote:I'm sorry but the more I read this stuff the more I ask myself, "What's the point of the CPM?" I'm not privy to these discussions, obviously, but why the need for any middleman?
Couldn't CCP theoretically create a team and dedicate them to doing the jobs you guys are doing? Other companies have things called community managers that do their jobs quite well. Why is CCP not taking it upon themselves to HIRE people that are trained for this type of stuff?
Seems to me that as long as the middle-man is present (along with this "political" nonsense surrounding CPM members) things will be dragged out and down more than they need to be.
Tell me I'm wrong?
NDA is a very powerful tool when used properly by CCP, some very very very bad ideas will never get to see the light. |
Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
2049
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
Thor McStrut wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:Nice to see that the CPM can't spell "Rogue", by the way. I'm sure the EP doesn't enjoy being called by a type of make-up... Don't you look silly...
Could have sworn the devblog he signed it was spelled as Rogue. Great - we have make-up in charge of the game now. |
David Spd
Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State
73
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:22:00 -
[27] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:David Spd wrote:I'm sorry but the more I read this stuff the more I ask myself, "What's the point of the CPM?" I'm not privy to these discussions, obviously, but why the need for any middleman?
Couldn't CCP theoretically create a team and dedicate them to doing the jobs you guys are doing? Other companies have things called community managers that do their jobs quite well. Why is CCP not taking it upon themselves to HIRE people that are trained for this type of stuff?
Seems to me that as long as the middle-man is present (along with this "political" nonsense surrounding CPM members) things will be dragged out and down more than they need to be.
Tell me I'm wrong? NDA is a very powerful tool when used properly by CCP, some very very very bad ideas will never get to see the light.
I edited my post to better convey my thoughts. Sorry, you responded to the knee-jerk reaction =P |
Thor McStrut
Reckoners
236
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
I was when I read it too. Maybe he's a bit flamboyant? Who knows. I'm just hoping it wasn't his own typo on choosing the name. That doesn't spell success for Dust if that's the case. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9492
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
David Spd wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:David Spd wrote:I'm sorry but the more I read this stuff the more I ask myself, "What's the point of the CPM?" I'm not privy to these discussions, obviously, but why the need for any middleman?
Couldn't CCP theoretically create a team and dedicate them to doing the jobs you guys are doing? Other companies have things called community managers that do their jobs quite well. Why is CCP not taking it upon themselves to HIRE people that are trained for this type of stuff?
Seems to me that as long as the middle-man is present (along with this "political" nonsense surrounding CPM members) things will be dragged out and down more than they need to be.
Tell me I'm wrong? NDA is a very powerful tool when used properly by CCP, some very very very bad ideas will never get to see the light. I edited my post to better convey my thoughts. Sorry, you responded to the knee-jerk reaction =P
Very well then.
You know someone at work, like they're in a special division, they speak a special language, he seems to be from Jupiter, but that is why your company hired him and has him on pay roll because he speaks, breathes and talks that otherworldly stuff?
At times game developers are very much like that, which at times we as customers can be viewed the same way as that as well. That they don't understand us, we're from mars and we absolutely hate some features of their product and barf all over it.
CPM is to help provide context in the cases where it was too late, and context of why things not yet can and will be a bad idea, and be reasonable in trying to ensure the messaging gets across from the community to the developers. CPM has been fairly accurate so far in feelings on things that are known about ahead of time and the few times we stopped a feature from seeing light of day we absolutely knew you guys would be more than livid over it.
That's one of the important roles we can fulfill at this point the rest of the important roles should be outlined by the charter officially. |
Cyrius Li-Moody
The New Age Outlaws
1327
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:38:00 -
[30] - Quote
Thor McStrut wrote:I was when I read it too. Maybe he's a bit flamboyant? Who knows. I'm just hoping it wasn't his own typo on choosing the name. That doesn't spell success for Dust if that's the case.
Pretty sure he's french. Rouge is also a color, not just make up. |
|
David Spd
Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State
73
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 22:43:00 -
[31] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:David Spd wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:David Spd wrote:I'm sorry but the more I read this stuff the more I ask myself, "What's the point of the CPM?" I'm not privy to these discussions, obviously, but why the need for any middleman?
Couldn't CCP theoretically create a team and dedicate them to doing the jobs you guys are doing? Other companies have things called community managers that do their jobs quite well. Why is CCP not taking it upon themselves to HIRE people that are trained for this type of stuff?
Seems to me that as long as the middle-man is present (along with this "political" nonsense surrounding CPM members) things will be dragged out and down more than they need to be.
Tell me I'm wrong? NDA is a very powerful tool when used properly by CCP, some very very very bad ideas will never get to see the light. I edited my post to better convey my thoughts. Sorry, you responded to the knee-jerk reaction =P Very well then. You know someone at work, like they're in a special division, they speak a special language, he seems to be from Jupiter, but that is why your company hired him and has him on pay roll because he speaks, breathes and talks that otherworldly stuff? At times game developers are very much like that, which at times we as customers can be viewed the same way as that as well. That they don't understand us, we're from mars and we absolutely hate some features of their product and barf all over it. CPM is to help provide context in the cases where it was too late, and context of why things not yet can and will be a bad idea, and be reasonable in trying to ensure the messaging gets across from the community to the developers. CPM has been fairly accurate so far in feelings on things that are known about ahead of time and the few times we stopped a feature from seeing light of day we absolutely knew you guys would be more than livid over it. That's one of the important roles we can fulfill at this point the rest of the important roles should be outlined by the charter officially.
This is all well and good, but with you guys ultimately being "customers" CCP can (and has) opt to simply not tell you about changes at any given time.
And that's all it really comes down to isn't it? If they choose to tell you about change x or y. They don't even need a reason or justification for not saying anything to you first. Community managers aren't developers, really. They just interact with the community and save important topics/discussions and bring them to the devs and they actually get paid for it. They even work inside the building with the devs and can move about freely to discuss things with the devs at any given time.
In my opinion there is a lot of extra steps involved with the CPM that makes getting CCP's attention more difficult because even when you all do everything possible and have all the info you feel is necessary, you still need CCP to get together a meeting to get discussions, right? And even then there's only x amount of time for each meeting and we all know there's a mountain of things that need work, how are you lot expected to bring all of this stuff to the table quickly and coherently at one time and make sure every CPM member gets their fair share of discussion in?
I'm just an observer for all of this. Is this even an issue? Does this sound like something you guys experience or am I just completely off on all of this? |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9492
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:02:00 -
[32] - Quote
David Spd wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:David Spd wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:David Spd wrote:I'm sorry but the more I read this stuff the more I ask myself, "What's the point of the CPM?" I'm not privy to these discussions, obviously, but why the need for any middleman?
Couldn't CCP theoretically create a team and dedicate them to doing the jobs you guys are doing? Other companies have things called community managers that do their jobs quite well. Why is CCP not taking it upon themselves to HIRE people that are trained for this type of stuff?
Seems to me that as long as the middle-man is present (along with this "political" nonsense surrounding CPM members) things will be dragged out and down more than they need to be.
Tell me I'm wrong? NDA is a very powerful tool when used properly by CCP, some very very very bad ideas will never get to see the light. I edited my post to better convey my thoughts. Sorry, you responded to the knee-jerk reaction =P Very well then. You know someone at work, like they're in a special division, they speak a special language, he seems to be from Jupiter, but that is why your company hired him and has him on pay roll because he speaks, breathes and talks that otherworldly stuff? At times game developers are very much like that, which at times we as customers can be viewed the same way as that as well. That they don't understand us, we're from mars and we absolutely hate some features of their product and barf all over it. CPM is to help provide context in the cases where it was too late, and context of why things not yet can and will be a bad idea, and be reasonable in trying to ensure the messaging gets across from the community to the developers. CPM has been fairly accurate so far in feelings on things that are known about ahead of time and the few times we stopped a feature from seeing light of day we absolutely knew you guys would be more than livid over it. That's one of the important roles we can fulfill at this point the rest of the important roles should be outlined by the charter officially. This is all well and good, but with you guys ultimately being "customers" CCP can (and has) opt to simply not tell you about changes at any given time. And that's all it really comes down to isn't it? If they choose to tell you about change x or y. They don't even need a reason or justification for not saying anything to you first. Community managers aren't developers, really. They just interact with the community and save important topics/discussions and bring them to the devs and they actually get paid for it. They even work inside the building with the devs and can move about freely to discuss things with the devs at any given time. In my opinion there is a lot of extra steps involved with the CPM that makes getting CCP's attention more difficult because even when you all do everything possible and have all the info you feel is necessary, you still need CCP to get together a meeting to get discussions, right? And even then there's only x amount of time for each meeting and we all know there's a mountain of things that need work, how are you lot expected to bring all of this stuff to the table quickly and coherently at one time and make sure every CPM member gets their fair share of discussion in? I'm just an observer for all of this. Is this even an issue? Does this sound like something you guys experience or am I just completely off on all of this?
There is always issues, its part of the growing pain process, Dust 514 studio is still in development in itself and the CPM is still quite infantile. It took Eve's CSM nearly 7 years to become effective.
The heart and idea and soul is that the steps are not that entirely obtrusive, the idea is that we are here to help reduce wasted time in ccp in having them develop a feature wrongly or wrong intended or committing resources to a feature unwanted by you guys. In essence help CCP choose features that will be well received, made in good sound development, in essence help CCP make the game, but not make the game for them. Its not like we shoulder surf these guys. As one of the newest CCP names out there puts it. 'Why should I get something designed without consulting the community first? That's asking to start all over on it again wasting even more time.'
NDA has other uses outside of keeping bad ideas out of your hands the other being giving the CPM a heads up on a super exciting feature that you guys really wanted but CCP wants to save the announcement for when its near release date of the feature to drum up the excitement for it. The NDA also just allows the developers to freely pitch ideas back and forth with a very reasonable group that understands that whatever comes out of their mouths is not gospel unlike some personalities here on the forums which have always treated such forum posts as such. CPM current was selected for their passion and should always be elected on such dedication to the game's future. We're not here to be cheerleaders, publicity stunt, community handlers; the CPM is here to basically bro talk CCP on making a good game, as a good friend, and good friends tell you when you have done right and when you have done wrong.
Overall as long as CCP strikes a good balance in keeping you guys in the feedback loop (where your feedback inspires them to do better and they feedback to you guys which starts becomes this scary ravenous beast. ) and talking with the CPM all things should be good and jolly.
Just right now the ball is in their court, its their turn to serve back. |
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CCP Dolan
C C P C C P Alliance
57
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:11:00 -
[33] - Quote
David Spd wrote: This is all well and good, but with you guys ultimately being "customers" CCP can (and has) opt to simply not tell you about changes at any given time.
And that's all it really comes down to isn't it? If they choose to tell you about change x or y. They don't even need a reason or justification for not saying anything to you first. Community managers aren't developers, really. They just interact with the community and save important topics/discussions and bring them to the devs and they actually get paid for it. They even work inside the building with the devs and can move about freely to discuss things with the devs at any given time.
In my opinion there is a lot of extra steps involved with the CPM that makes getting CCP's attention more difficult because even when you all do everything possible and have all the info you feel is necessary, you still need CCP to get together a meeting to get discussions, right? And even then there's only x amount of time for each meeting and we all know there's a mountain of things that need work, how are you lot expected to bring all of this stuff to the table quickly and coherently at one time and make sure every CPM member gets their fair share of discussion in?
I'm just an observer for all of this. Is this even an issue? Does this sound like something you guys experience or am I just completely off on all of this?
These are all incredibly valid questions (and quite constructively asked I might add), and I need a break from writing statements, so I guess I'll answer a few of them from CCP's side.
So I think there are a few core reasons that the CSM and CPM are particularly good institutions in the game development process at CCP. The councils provide CCP with a group of player experts, that are in touch with the community in a way we never really can be. I as a member of the community team, can't be in private forums, or teamspeaks, and I don't have the ear of leaders in the DUST 514 community on a day to day basis. I also, can never be as good at the game as the people likely to be elected as CPM members, just because I lack the core talent at the game. Other companies will have focus groups, but CCP games aren't like other games. No focus group can understand the depth of play in EVE and DUST in a few hours, and if we asked them to play for longer, who can know if they'd enjoy it or represent a general player's opinions.
The reason we have councils is because it makes good business sense. CCP games are deep, and the people who are the best at them are experts at what they do. They might not be good at game design, or community management, or programming, but they can work with those people to help explain how new changes to the game will interact with the game at the highest level in a safe NDA'd enviroment, and are elected to ensure that the group stays current and keeps up with the game as it evolves. When we don't share ideas with them, we have the potential to lose perspective on the repercussions of our decisions, and not see that bigger picture.
I think that getting used to a council can be quite a change for people in the gaming industry who are unaccustomed to such a group, and a particularly fast paced release schedule (like the current release schedule for DUST) can exacerbate the problem. But, I think that people at the highest level and those who work with them quickly realize their value.
Damn I'm totally gonna steal some of this post for my statement, thanks man. |
|
David Spd
Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State
73
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:32:00 -
[34] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:*snip*
Thanks for taking my concern seriously and taking the time to type all that out. I've been around since closed beta, and I know even though my likes suggest otherwise (I lurk 90% of the time) I've seen this game grow and evolve to what it is today.
I'm pretty much down to just checking the forums once a day and maybe playing a couple hours every three months since most of the "big" features don't interest me (corp. focus, Planetary Conquest, Faction Warfare) and it's a bit depressing that what used to be an incredible interest in the game has essentially died for me.
A lot of the time it feels like nothing is happening and CCP doesn't care even though that's obviously not the case. I see a bunch of posts from you personally, and only a fraction of that by CCP themselves. Most of their posts are corporate BS (New in the marketplace! This thread is locked! Thanks for your feedback!) so anything beyond that is usually speculation or little bread crumbs in the form of CPM hints.
This is probably my last post before I finally give up on this game, which I really never wanted. Maybe a couple years down the road I can enjoy this game properly again, but chances are with PS3 soon to be obsolete there's not gonna be any looking back for me.
Anywho, rant aside let me just say thanks a lot for your hard work and dedication Iron Wolf Saber. I see daily you get a lot of **** and it's incredible you never really loose your cool. Got a lot of respect for you man, and I hope you keep on doing what you're doing. |
Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1540
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:38:00 -
[35] - Quote
Eh...just the same info that I received the other day. There was a nice sit down with EP, EP and CPM made some progress, some exciting news, and M.I.B. treatment. If you talk about it, your memory gets wiped.
So we have positives in the future. What they are, we just have to wait. |
GTA-V FTW
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
410
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:42:00 -
[36] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I urge folks to read this one, it is rather important to the CPM and by extension to you guys. Yeah and.........................?
Yeah not seeing anything important here.
Blah, blah, blah, blah!
Yaaaaawn! |
Thor McStrut
Reckoners
236
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:43:00 -
[37] - Quote
CCP Dolan wrote:
These are all incredibly valid questions (and quite constructively asked I might add), and I need a break from writing statements, so I guess I'll answer a few of them from CCP's side.
So I think there are a few core reasons that the CSM and CPM are particularly good institutions in the game development process at CCP. The councils provide CCP with a group of player experts, that are in touch with the community in a way we never really can be. I as a member of the community team, can't be in private forums, or teamspeaks, and I don't have the ear of leaders in the DUST 514 community on a day to day basis. I also, can never be as good at the game as the people likely to be elected as CPM members, just because I lack the core talent at the game. Other companies will have focus groups, but CCP games aren't like other games. No focus group can understand the depth of play in EVE and DUST in a few hours, and if we asked them to play for longer, who can know if they'd enjoy it or represent a general player's opinions.
The reason we have councils is because it makes good business sense. CCP games are deep, and the people who are the best at them are experts at what they do. They might not be good at game design, or community management, or programming, but they can work with those people to help explain how new changes to the game will interact with the game at the highest level in a safe NDA'd enviroment, and are elected to ensure that the group stays current and keeps up with the game as it evolves. When we don't share ideas with them, we have the potential to lose perspective on the repercussions of our decisions, and not see that bigger picture.
I think that getting used to a council can be quite a change for people in the gaming industry who are unaccustomed to such a group, and a particularly fast paced release schedule (like the current release schedule for DUST) can exacerbate the problem. But, I think that people at the highest level and those who work with them quickly realize their value.
Damn I'm totally gonna steal some of this post for my statement, thanks man.
This is a great explanation. As an Eve veteran of several years, I know how important a council can be. But as with any elected body, it can have downfalls, and serious pitfalls.
While I don't personally have any problems with CPM 0, I can see why many are wondering why there is such a delay in getting the charter and the first elected CPM in place. Hopefully this statement that CCP is making will clear this up some.
|
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder.
3666
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:43:00 -
[38] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:David Spd wrote:I'm sorry but the more I read this stuff the more I ask myself, "What's the point of the CPM?" I'm not privy to these discussions, obviously, but why the need for any middleman?
Couldn't CCP theoretically create a team and dedicate them to doing the jobs you guys are doing? Other companies have things called community managers that do their jobs quite well. Why is CCP not taking it upon themselves to HIRE people that are trained for this type of stuff?
Seems to me that as long as the middle-man is present (along with this "political" nonsense surrounding CPM members) things will be dragged out and down more than they need to be.
Tell me I'm wrong? NDA is a very powerful tool when used properly by CCP, some very very very bad ideas will never get to see the light. thank god for the sanity checks you guys do, mistakes on CCP's part, especially the public ones erode faith in the dev's, some stuff is better left in the closet. |
SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
404
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 23:48:00 -
[39] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Nice to see that the CPM can't spell "Rogue", by the way. I'm sure the EP doesn't enjoy being called by a type of make-up...
CCP Rouge is French.
Rouge is a french word.
Pull your head in. |
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CCP Dolan
C C P C C P Alliance
60
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 01:42:00 -
[40] - Quote
Thor McStrut wrote: This is a great explanation. As an Eve veteran of several years, I know how important a council can be. But as with any elected body, it can have downfalls, and serious pitfalls.
While I don't personally have any problems with CPM 0, I can see why many are wondering why there is such a delay in getting the charter and the first elected CPM in place. Hopefully this statement that CCP is making will clear this up some.
The one big problem we have is voting, I still haven't heard a solid argument for how to fairly distribute ballots in a free to play game, there are a lot of ok options but no "great" ones. Additionally, there are problems with how best to conduct voting. Voting for the CSM occurs on the PC and EVE is a PC game (and even then turnout is not as great as I'd like), how then do we do voting for a game that is on PS3? I've collected pretty much every option in terms of suggestions (the size of the word doc would blow your mind), it's just a matter of me seeing what we can do and what will give us the most fair, representative, and enfranchised election we can. |
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VEXation Gunn
Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic
351
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Posted - 2013.10.17 02:11:00 -
[41] - Quote
CCP Dolan why does it take cpm to go public and basically telling us they are giving up to get any sort of response from CCP. As an Eve vet I see how the csm works and it seems like the cpm was forced on shanghai and they still don't want or see value in the the cpm.
I'm pretty sure I am stating the obvious but I would like you to address it
PS it didn't help that cmdr wang told closed beta player that the don't have to listen to us. That still stings when you look and the failure of uprising release |
Protected Void
STRONG-ARMED BANDITS Public Disorder.
155
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Posted - 2013.10.17 11:43:00 -
[42] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Nice to see that the CPM can't spell "Rogue", by the way. I'm sure the EP doesn't enjoy being called by a type of make-up... Psst...look at his signature here: http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/10/a-message-from-the-executive-producer/ |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
1389
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Posted - 2013.10.17 12:11:00 -
[43] - Quote
Alot of words which really mean nothing
Frankly the one word i would use to describe the CPM is useless currently
CCP Dolan quote 'The councils provide CCP with a group of player experts' - lolno
Frankly this CPM doesnt seem to have experts full stop, vehicle community is totally not represented at all and maybe 2 out of the 6 are any good at DUST that is if they are still playing it and also if they are not gaming the system 1st to get an advantage while they scream 'metagame'
Its to the point where the CPM is quiet as a mouse and does nothing while the 1 job they had to do hasnt even come close to being done yet
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Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
1112
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Posted - 2013.10.17 13:10:00 -
[44] - Quote
CCP Dolan wrote:Thor McStrut wrote: This is a great explanation. As an Eve veteran of several years, I know how important a council can be. But as with any elected body, it can have downfalls, and serious pitfalls.
While I don't personally have any problems with CPM 0, I can see why many are wondering why there is such a delay in getting the charter and the first elected CPM in place. Hopefully this statement that CCP is making will clear this up some.
The one big problem we have is voting, I still haven't heard a solid argument for how to fairly distribute ballots in a free to play game, there are a lot of ok options but no "great" ones. Additionally, there are problems with how best to conduct voting. Voting for the CSM occurs on the PC and EVE is a PC game (and even then turnout is not as great as I'd like), how then do we do voting for a game that is on PS3? I've collected pretty much every option in terms of suggestions (the size of the word doc would blow your mind), it's just a matter of me seeing what we can do and what will give us the most fair, representative, and enfranchised election we can. I've been wondering about the possibility of incorporating a browser in DUST, partially because of this reason.
The other main reason is CREST. Given that magnificent API and what is already being produced with bare-bones access to it, it would be a shame if those tools weren't accessible on the PS3 and in-game.
And great feed back on the CPM, CCP Dolan. My opinion is that given how New Eden is beginning to evolve and 'come awake', the citizens and the stewards of New Eden need each other in a way that does not exist in other games or in other game communities. The CPM and CSM are going to be crucial to the quality and tenor of the universe-building conversation that will influence the direction of that evolution. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
1112
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 13:20:00 -
[45] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Alot of words which really mean nothing Frankly the one word i would use to describe the CPM is useless currently CCP Dolan quote 'The councils provide CCP with a group of player experts' - lolno Frankly this CPM doesnt seem to have experts full stop, vehicle community is totally not represented at all and maybe 2 out of the 6 are any good at DUST that is if they are still playing it and also if they are not gaming the system 1st to get an advantage while they scream 'metagame' Its to the point where the CPM is quiet as a mouse and does nothing while the 1 job they had to do hasnt even come close to being done yet I disagree. They've kept the conversation going and maintained a professional relationship with CCP in difficult and frustrating circumstances(for both parties, no doubt). I'm certain that if some of their more vocal critics had been given the job CPM-CCP relations would be smouldering embers by now.
It's not over yet, but i'd say the efforts of the CPM have put us in a position where there is hope for the future, and furthermore that those efforts are likely yield positive results..
This whole process reminds me of Socrates' take on education: 'The roots are bitter but the fruit is sweet.' |
Kain Spero
MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN.
2164
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Posted - 2013.10.23 15:19:00 -
[46] - Quote
Just an update to you guys. We are hoping we will have the statement from CCP today. I'm somewhat concerned that's it's been over a week now, but we've been assured that the gears are turning. |
Canari Elphus
Pro Hic Immortalis
691
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Posted - 2013.10.23 15:31:00 -
[47] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Just an update to you guys. We are hoping we will have the statement from CCP today. I'm somewhat concerned that's it's been over a week now, but we've been assured that the gears are turning.
You have to realize by now that your chain is just being yanked. How long has it been since the CPM was created? How long have you been trying to get CCP Shanghai to open up communication? Lets face it, the CPM is just there to make it seem like they care what players think. They throw you a bone now and again by giving you the inside scoop but thats about it.
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steadyhand amarr
MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN.
1626
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Posted - 2013.10.23 15:44:00 -
[48] - Quote
This was a massively long post just say "what this space" when are u going allow true members of the community who have been elected to represent our wishes as a whole and not your own egos and ideas.
I could be wrong here but not many in the communty think ur any good and less think u represent the community and instead use the cpm promot ur own ideas rather than the communtys.
Disclaimer: I just speak for myself but iv been very unimpressed with the cpm. With the possable expection of ironwolf |
Kain Spero
MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN.
2166
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Posted - 2013.10.23 15:55:00 -
[49] - Quote
Canari Elphus wrote:Kain Spero wrote:Just an update to you guys. We are hoping we will have the statement from CCP today. I'm somewhat concerned that's it's been over a week now, but we've been assured that the gears are turning. You have to realize by now that your chain is just being yanked. How long has it been since the CPM was created? How long have you been trying to get CCP Shanghai to open up communication? Lets face it, the CPM is just there to make it seem like they care what players think. They throw you a bone now and again by giving you the inside scoop but thats about it.
The CPM was publicly announced 187 days ago. How long have we been trying to open up with communication? About 187 days (longer if you include our requests from before many of us became CPMs).
I hope that you are wrong, but it will be up to CCP to prove to you all that their care for the community is genuine. I don't want to paint CCP with a broad brush though. There have been beacons of excellent communication in CCP with both the CPM and the community, but more often then not those feel like the exception rather than the norm.
I do get a feeling that CCP Rouge could set a very different tone in terms of future communication, but both the CPM and the community need tangible things we can hold onto. I do feel we could be at a turning point, but we're going to have to see consistent steps in the right direction. |
steadyhand amarr
MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN.
1626
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Posted - 2013.10.23 16:11:00 -
[50] - Quote
Is Wang still with ccp as he made it pretty clear he wanted nothing to do with communty in regards to feedback |
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Canari Elphus
Pro Hic Immortalis
692
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Posted - 2013.10.23 16:23:00 -
[51] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote: The CPM was publicly announced 187 days ago. How long have we been trying to open up with communication? About 187 days (longer if you include our requests from before many of us became CPMs).
I hope that you are wrong, but it will be up to CCP to prove to you all that their care for the community is genuine. I don't want to paint CCP with a broad brush though. There have been beacons of excellent communication in CCP with both the CPM and the community, but more often then not those feel like the exception rather than the norm.
Thats what I mean about throwing you guys a bone. Its something to keep you satisfied and feeling like there might be hope for opening up something meaningful in the future. Something like the CPM only works if they are seen as actually a part of the CCP process. Right now you are pretty much lobbyists.
Kain Spero wrote: I do get a feeling that CCP Rouge could set a very different tone in terms of future communication, but both the CPM and the community need tangible things we can hold onto. I do feel we could be at a turning point, but we're going to have to see consistent steps in the right direction.
I feel that you have always been near a 'turning point'. First it was when we got the community managers, then it was when CCP appointed someone specifically to communicate to the CPM and now its the new EP. Notice a pattern?
steadyhand amarr wrote: Is Wang still with ccp as he made it pretty clear he wanted nothing to do with communty in regards to feedback
I believe that Wang is currently located at the CCP Moon offices
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Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
1545
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Posted - 2013.10.23 16:36:00 -
[52] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Canari Elphus wrote:Kain Spero wrote:Just an update to you guys. We are hoping we will have the statement from CCP today. I'm somewhat concerned that's it's been over a week now, but we've been assured that the gears are turning. You have to realize by now that your chain is just being yanked. How long has it been since the CPM was created? How long have you been trying to get CCP Shanghai to open up communication? Lets face it, the CPM is just there to make it seem like they care what players think. They throw you a bone now and again by giving you the inside scoop but thats about it. The CPM was publicly announced 187 days ago. How long have we been trying to open up with communication? About 187 days (longer if you include our requests from before many of us became CPMs). I hope that you are wrong, but it will be up to CCP to prove to you all that their care for the community is genuine. I don't want to paint CCP with a broad brush though. There have been beacons of excellent communication in CCP with both the CPM and the community, but more often then not those feel like the exception rather than the norm. I do get a feeling that CCP Rouge could set a very different tone in terms of future communication, but both the CPM and the community need tangible things we can hold onto. I do feel we could be at a turning point, but we're going to have to see consistent steps in the right direction. is this a secret message 187 is dead so are you saying the game is dead with this connection? *removes tinfoil hat* Okay... on another note... Seems vauge, I'd rather see in-game changes but this will be decent too. |
Kain Spero
MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN.
2170
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Posted - 2013.10.23 18:48:00 -
[53] - Quote
Killar-12 wrote: I'd rather see in-game changes but this will be decent too.
In-game changes informed by Dev interaction with the community is a constant goal.
Canari Elphus wrote: Something like the CPM only works if they are seen as actually a part of the CCP process.
I couldn't agree more. CCP has to decide for itself if it wants to make working with the CPM an ingrained part of the process. I feel keenly aware regarding the idea of being thrown bone to provide hope. That is one of the reasons that CCP needs to state as clearly as they can themselves regarding the current state of the CPM. |
Titus Stryker
Ancient Exiles
50
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Posted - 2013.10.23 19:42:00 -
[54] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Just an update to you guys. We are hoping we will have the statement from CCP today. I'm somewhat concerned that's it's been over a week now, but we've been assured that the gears are turning. SOONGäó ? |
Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
1548
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Posted - 2013.10.23 22:20:00 -
[55] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Killar-12 wrote: I'd rather see in-game changes but this will be decent too. In-game changes informed by Dev interaction with the community is a constant goal. Canari Elphus wrote: Something like the CPM only works if they are seen as actually a part of the CCP process. I couldn't agree more. CCP has to decide for itself if it wants to make working with the CPM an ingrained part of the process. I feel keenly aware regarding the idea of being thrown bone to provide hope. That is one of the reasons that CCP needs to state as clearly as they can themselves regarding the current state of the CPM. I get what you mean but I (and a large chunk of the player base) am getting restless 1.7 can't come soon enough. |
Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1176
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 07:36:00 -
[56] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Just an update to you guys. We are hoping we will have the statement from CCP today. I'm somewhat concerned that's it's been over a week now, but we've been assured that the gears are turning. So about that CCP statement? |
Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1176
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 06:08:00 -
[57] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:Kain Spero wrote:Just an update to you guys. We are hoping we will have the statement from CCP today. I'm somewhat concerned that's it's been over a week now, but we've been assured that the gears are turning. So about that CCP statement?
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