DUST Search - CPM Activity Report #8

David Spd wrote:

This is all well and good, but with you guys ultimately being "customers" CCP can (and has) opt to simply not tell you about changes at any given time.

And that's all it really comes down to isn't it? If they choose to tell you about change x or y. They don't even need a reason or justification for not saying anything to you first. Community managers aren't developers, really. They just interact with the community and save important topics/discussions and bring them to the devs and they actually get paid for it. They even work inside the building with the devs and can move about freely to discuss things with the devs at any given time.

In my opinion there is a lot of extra steps involved with the CPM that makes getting CCP's attention more difficult because even when you all do everything possible and have all the info you feel is necessary, you still need CCP to get together a meeting to get discussions, right? And even then there's only x amount of time for each meeting and we all know there's a mountain of things that need work, how are you lot expected to bring all of this stuff to the table quickly and coherently at one time and make sure every CPM member gets their fair share of discussion in?

I'm just an observer for all of this. Is this even an issue? Does this sound like something you guys experience or am I just completely off on all of this?


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CCP Dolan C C P C C P Alliance 57	Posted - 2013.10.16 23:11:00 - [1] - Quote David Spd wrote: This is all well and good, but with you guys ultimately being "customers" CCP can (and has) opt to simply not tell you about changes at any given time. And that's all it really comes down to isn't it? If they choose to tell you about change x or y. They don't even need a reason or justification for not saying anything to you first. Community managers aren't developers, really. They just interact with the community and save important topics/discussions and bring them to the devs and they actually get paid for it. They even work inside the building with the devs and can move about freely to discuss things with the devs at any given time. In my opinion there is a lot of extra steps involved with the CPM that makes getting CCP's attention more difficult because even when you all do everything possible and have all the info you feel is necessary, you still need CCP to get together a meeting to get discussions, right? And even then there's only x amount of time for each meeting and we all know there's a mountain of things that need work, how are you lot expected to bring all of this stuff to the table quickly and coherently at one time and make sure every CPM member gets their fair share of discussion in? I'm just an observer for all of this. Is this even an issue? Does this sound like something you guys experience or am I just completely off on all of this? These are all incredibly valid questions (and quite constructively asked I might add), and I need a break from writing statements, so I guess I'll answer a few of them from CCP's side. So I think there are a few core reasons that the CSM and CPM are particularly good institutions in the game development process at CCP. The councils provide CCP with a group of player experts, that are in touch with the community in a way we never really can be. I as a member of the community team, can't be in private forums, or teamspeaks, and I don't have the ear of leaders in the DUST 514 community on a day to day basis. I also, can never be as good at the game as the people likely to be elected as CPM members, just because I lack the core talent at the game. Other companies will have focus groups, but CCP games aren't like other games. No focus group can understand the depth of play in EVE and DUST in a few hours, and if we asked them to play for longer, who can know if they'd enjoy it or represent a general player's opinions. The reason we have councils is because it makes good business sense. CCP games are deep, and the people who are the best at them are experts at what they do. They might not be good at game design, or community management, or programming, but they can work with those people to help explain how new changes to the game will interact with the game at the highest level in a safe NDA'd enviroment, and are elected to ensure that the group stays current and keeps up with the game as it evolves. When we don't share ideas with them, we have the potential to lose perspective on the repercussions of our decisions, and not see that bigger picture. I think that getting used to a council can be quite a change for people in the gaming industry who are unaccustomed to such a group, and a particularly fast paced release schedule (like the current release schedule for DUST) can exacerbate the problem. But, I think that people at the highest level and those who work with them quickly realize their value. Damn I'm totally gonna steal some of this post for my statement, thanks man.


CCP Dolan C C P C C P Alliance 60	Posted - 2013.10.17 01:42:00 - [2] - Quote Thor McStrut wrote: This is a great explanation. As an Eve veteran of several years, I know how important a council can be. But as with any elected body, it can have downfalls, and serious pitfalls. While I don't personally have any problems with CPM 0, I can see why many are wondering why there is such a delay in getting the charter and the first elected CPM in place. Hopefully this statement that CCP is making will clear this up some. The one big problem we have is voting, I still haven't heard a solid argument for how to fairly distribute ballots in a free to play game, there are a lot of ok options but no "great" ones. Additionally, there are problems with how best to conduct voting. Voting for the CSM occurs on the PC and EVE is a PC game (and even then turnout is not as great as I'd like), how then do we do voting for a game that is on PS3? I've collected pretty much every option in terms of suggestions (the size of the word doc would blow your mind), it's just a matter of me seeing what we can do and what will give us the most fair, representative, and enfranchised election we can.