DUST Search - Weapon Balance needs to be based on PC Stats

Alldin Kan wrote:

ReGnYuM wrote:

Now before everybody starts foaming at the mouth and chanting: Elitist, Elitist, burn the Elitist. Take a second to hear me out.

As we all know, the current public match finder is plagued with unbalanced variables. Team sizes, Gear, Lack of roles...etc. Therefore, why would anyone try to use data from such a broken system to balance anything. It would be like trying to build a skyscraper on a sandy foundation.

Now no one is saying PC is perfect, but it is definitely more consistent than public matches. CCP I highly suggest that for weapon balance, you use PC statistics.

Anyways, I wish people just tired PC before commenting how awesome the AR is every situation, because it really is not.

LOL I'm still waiting on CCP to apply these changes:

New Breach AR/SMG stats:

Breach AR Damage - 63.7 HP (STD), 66.8 HP (ADV), 70.1 HP (PRO)
Breach AR RoF - 450
High Kick for Breach AR
Breach SMG RoF - 882.8
Breach SMG clip size - 62
Slightly Higher Kick for Breach SMG

New Logistics changes:

Slot layout has low count on all dropsuits to prevent high HP (it's a medic class not an Officer Assault suit)
CPU/PG would be lowered to accommodate above change

New Grenade Stats:

All Grenade types except Fused will have Max. Ammo of 2
Grenades cannot be resupplied from Nanohives, this is to prevent spam and use it tactically.
Fused Locus Grenade - 350 dmg, 2.5 splash radius, 9 CPU and 2 PG
M2 Contact Locus Grenade - 400 dmg, 2.8 splash Radius, 18 CPU and 3 PG
Thukker Contact Locus Grenade - 450 dmg, 3.0 splash radius, 48 CPU and 6 PG

New stats for Ammar Commando:

Shield - 320 HP
Armor - 320 HP
Shield Recharge Rate - 17.0 HP/s
CPU/PG would receive a slight increase
Ammar Commando Bonus - 10% to efficacy of Shield/Armor Modules per level

New Sentinel bonus:

3% to handheld weapon damage resistance per level

Plasma Cannon Assault Variant:

Same Splash Damage stats as the current PLC
Base Splash Radius is 3.8 m
Max. Ammo at 12
Charge time is .6 s

Plasma Cannon Normal Variant:

20% higher Splash damage than the Assault Variant
Base Splash Radius is 3.5 m
Charge time is 1 s

The operation skill for the Plasma Cannon weapon is to be replaced with 5% Splash Radius increase per level.

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ReGnYuM TeamPlayers EoN. 1020	Posted - 2013.10.13 13:25:00 - [1] - Quote Now before everybody starts foaming at the mouth and going Elitist, Elitist... burn the Elitist. Take one second to hear me out. Now before everybody starts foaming at the mouth and chanting: Elitist, Elitist, burn the Elitist. Take a second to hear me out. As we all know, the current public match finder is plagued with unbalanced variables. Team sizes, Gear, Lack of roles...etc. Therefore, why would anyone try to use data from such a broken system to balance anything. It would be like trying to build a skyscraper on a sandy foundation. Now no one is saying PC is perfect, but it is definitely more consistent than public matches. CCP I highly suggest that for weapon balance, you use PC statistics. Anyways, I wish people just tired PC before commenting how awesome the AR is every situation, because really is not.
JL3Eleven PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 997	Posted - 2013.10.13 13:30:00 - [2] - Quote I <3 ReGnYuM. inb4haters.
ReGnYuM TeamPlayers EoN. 1020	Posted - 2013.10.13 13:32:00 - [3] - Quote JL3Eleven wrote: I <3 ReGnYuM. inb4haters. Good Players Love me, and bad players mask their envy with Jealousy
DildoMcnutz Science For Death The Shadow Eclipse 273	Posted - 2013.10.13 13:34:00 - [4] - Quote Well im glad this isn't the usual troll thread you always put up, the game does need to be balanced around 2 full co-ordinated teams, I think everyone will agree on this.
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 1611	Posted - 2013.10.13 13:36:00 - [5] - Quote Let me know what role scouts play in PC...
ReGnYuM TeamPlayers EoN. 1022	Posted - 2013.10.13 13:40:00 - [6] - Quote Crash Monster wrote: Let me know what role scouts play in PC... Try pushing the skyfire batterie objects with a fast shotgun scout. Not easy or super faster runner who gets a hack on a key objective
Alldin Kan TeamPlayers EoN. 672	Posted - 2013.10.13 13:41:00 - [7] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Now before everybody starts foaming at the mouth and chanting: Elitist, Elitist, burn the Elitist. Take a second to hear me out. As we all know, the current public match finder is plagued with unbalanced variables. Team sizes, Gear, Lack of roles...etc. Therefore, why would anyone try to use data from such a broken system to balance anything. It would be like trying to build a skyscraper on a sandy foundation. Now no one is saying PC is perfect, but it is definitely more consistent than public matches. CCP I highly suggest that for weapon balance, you use PC statistics. Anyways, I wish people just tired PC before commenting how awesome the AR is every situation, because it really is not. LOL I'm still waiting on CCP to apply these changes: New Breach AR/SMG stats: Breach AR Damage - 63.7 HP (STD), 66.8 HP (ADV), 70.1 HP (PRO) Breach AR RoF - 450 High Kick for Breach AR Breach SMG RoF - 882.8 Breach SMG clip size - 62 Slightly Higher Kick for Breach SMG New Logistics changes: Slot layout has low count on all dropsuits to prevent high HP (it's a medic class not an Officer Assault suit) CPU/PG would be lowered to accommodate above change New Grenade Stats: All Grenade types except Fused will have Max. Ammo of 2 Grenades cannot be resupplied from Nanohives, this is to prevent spam and use it tactically. Fused Locus Grenade - 350 dmg, 2.5 splash radius, 9 CPU and 2 PG M2 Contact Locus Grenade - 400 dmg, 2.8 splash Radius, 18 CPU and 3 PG Thukker Contact Locus Grenade - 450 dmg, 3.0 splash radius, 48 CPU and 6 PG [Changes to contact grenades must be made together with "No resupply" change. New stats for Ammar Commando: Shield - 320 HP Armor - 320 HP Shield Recharge Rate - 17.0 HP/s CPU/PG would receive a slight increase Ammar Commando Bonus - 10% to efficacy of Shield/Armor Modules per level New Sentinel bonus: 3% to handheld weapon damage resistance per level Plasma Cannon Assault Variant: Same Splash Damage stats as the current PLC Base Splash Radius is 3.8 m Max. Ammo at 12 Charge time is .6 s Plasma Cannon Normal Variant: 20% higher Splash damage than the Assault Variant Base Splash Radius is 3.5 m Charge time is 1 s The operation skill for the Plasma Cannon weapon is to be replaced with 5% Splash Radius increase per level.
ReGnYuM TeamPlayers EoN. 1022	Posted - 2013.10.13 13:43:00 - [8] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Now before everybody starts foaming at the mouth and chanting: Elitist, Elitist, burn the Elitist. Take a second to hear me out. As we all know, the current public match finder is plagued with unbalanced variables. Team sizes, Gear, Lack of roles...etc. Therefore, why would anyone try to use data from such a broken system to balance anything. It would be like trying to build a skyscraper on a sandy foundation. Now no one is saying PC is perfect, but it is definitely more consistent than public matches. CCP I highly suggest that for weapon balance, you use PC statistics. Anyways, I wish people just tired PC before commenting how awesome the AR is every situation, because it really is not. LOL I'm still waiting on CCP to apply these changes: New Breach AR/SMG stats: Breach AR Damage - 63.7 HP (STD), 66.8 HP (ADV), 70.1 HP (PRO) Breach AR RoF - 450 High Kick for Breach AR Breach SMG RoF - 882.8 Breach SMG clip size - 62 Slightly Higher Kick for Breach SMG New Logistics changes: Slot layout has low count on all dropsuits to prevent high HP (it's a medic class not an Officer Assault suit) CPU/PG would be lowered to accommodate above change New Grenade Stats: All Grenade types except Fused will have Max. Ammo of 2 Grenades cannot be resupplied from Nanohives, this is to prevent spam and use it tactically. Fused Locus Grenade - 350 dmg, 2.5 splash radius, 9 CPU and 2 PG M2 Contact Locus Grenade - 400 dmg, 2.8 splash Radius, 18 CPU and 3 PG Thukker Contact Locus Grenade - 450 dmg, 3.0 splash radius, 48 CPU and 6 PG [Changes to contact grenades must be made together with "No resupply" change. New stats for Ammar Commando: Shield - 320 HP Armor - 320 HP Shield Recharge Rate - 17.0 HP/s CPU/PG would receive a slight increase Ammar Commando Bonus - 10% to efficacy of Shield/Armor Modules per level New Sentinel bonus: 3% to handheld weapon damage resistance per level Plasma Cannon Assault Variant: Same Splash Damage stats as the current PLC Base Splash Radius is 3.8 m Max. Ammo at 12 Charge time is .6 s Plasma Cannon Normal Variant: 20% higher Splash damage than the Assault Variant Base Splash Radius is 3.5 m Charge time is 1 s The operation skill for the Plasma Cannon weapon is to be replaced with 5% Splash Radius increase per level. Linky pls
Alldin Kan TeamPlayers EoN. 672	Posted - 2013.10.13 13:46:00 - [9] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Linky pls Source: my head
ReGnYuM TeamPlayers EoN. 1026	Posted - 2013.10.13 13:49:00 - [10] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Linky pls Source: my head I agree with everything other than the sentient bonus
Canari Elphus Pro Hic Immortalis 647	Posted - 2013.10.13 13:50:00 - [11] - Quote I can agree with this as PC is a point where both sides will bring their best equipment and tactics to play. But then again, a test server would also accomplish this as players can look for ways to break the game without worrying about losing money or messing with their stats.
Alldin Kan TeamPlayers EoN. 672	Posted - 2013.10.13 13:51:00 - [12] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Linky pls Source: my head I agree with everything other than the sentient bonus Current Sentinel bonus is ****, you got any better idea? I'm still not getting a unique feel on this class like the MAX suits on Planetside 2.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1341	Posted - 2013.10.13 14:02:00 - [13] - Quote Frankly if you hate him it doesnt matter because its right PC is the only place where organized teams/squads go at it with proto gear except vehicle users Currently in PC the common tactics are 1. FG on top of things, mainly the rings so they can shoot everything down 2. Mass drivers, mass driver everywhere 3. lolvehicles, no proto mods or vehicles only proto turrets against proto AV 4. M1 locus grenades, M1 locus grenades everywhere 5. Explosive spam as much as possible, aim less and spam more
Vrain Matari ZionTCD 1081	Posted - 2013.10.13 14:05:00 - [14] - Quote Easy to agree with this - balancing should always be done at the highest level of team gameplay. Balancing on lower tiers of gameplay will always result in pathologies revealing themselves in higher tier gameplay and subsequently being exploited in the lower tiers.
DJINN Rampage Ancient Exiles 417	Posted - 2013.10.13 14:08:00 - [15] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Now before everybody starts foaming at the mouth and chanting: Elitist, Elitist, burn the Elitist. Take a second to hear me out. As we all know, the current public match finder is plagued with unbalanced variables. Team sizes, Gear, Lack of roles...etc. Therefore, why would anyone try to use data from such a broken system to balance anything. It would be like trying to build a skyscraper on a sandy foundation. Now no one is saying PC is perfect, but it is definitely more consistent than public matches. CCP I highly suggest that for weapon balance, you use PC statistics. Anyways, I wish people just tired PC before commenting how awesome the AR is every situation, because it really is not. i agree, based on PC stats it is clear that A)Grenades need to be made so they cannot be resupplied. B)You be given the max amount of 2 grenades at the locus, 2 at the flux, and 4 at the AV. C)Mass Drivers be given a nerf to reload speed, as well as splash damage. D)Mass Drivers SHOULD NOT be affected by damage mods. there is a reason grenades don't have thier own damage mod. E)Forge guns, should be given a lock on time to vehicles of .2 second with a lowered reload time as well as more shots in the clip. F)The Assault scrambler rifle have a raised heat build up as it is impossible to over heat in one full clip of the ASC even if spraying constantly. equipped with two damage mods, this does as much damage to armor as a douvalle. G)Armor repair should be given a stacking penalty just like shield regulators.
Medic 1879 Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 1102	Posted - 2013.10.13 14:08:00 - [16] - Quote Elitist, Elitist, Burn the Elitist! Kick him in the nuts! Lol. Anyhoo that could work but they would have to keep buffing the plasma cannon until someone was brave enough to use it in a PC match. CCP could also use the data to see what suits and weapons are used most and which ones are avoided like the plague and attempt to find out why.
CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 1140	Posted - 2013.10.13 14:31:00 - [17] - Quote Crash Monster wrote: Let me know what role scouts play in PC... DJINN rampage is the only one who uses a scout in PC. i think. lol
Canari Elphus Pro Hic Immortalis 647	Posted - 2013.10.13 14:37:00 - [18] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Linky pls Source: my head I agree with everything other than the sentient bonus Current Sentinel bonus is ****, you got any better idea? I'm still not getting a unique feel on this class like the MAX suits on Planetside 2. First CCP needs to define what their role is. They have said that they are supposed to be point defenders but nothing about their bonuses leans towards that other than a marginally higher EHP. Maybe bonuses should be tied to proximity to null cannons but be very very good in that case. Have them be teired Tier 1 - When not X meters from a null cannon (or some other point of defense) 2% resistance to handheld light weapons per level Tier 2 - When within X meters of defensive point 3% resistance to handheld light weapons fire per level 5% increase to scan radius and precision per level
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster 1167	Posted - 2013.10.13 14:38:00 - [19] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Linky pls Source: my head I agree with everything other than the sentient bonus Same here.
DJINN Rampage Ancient Exiles 418	Posted - 2013.10.13 14:45:00 - [20] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: Crash Monster wrote: Let me know what role scouts play in PC... DJINN rampage is the only one who uses a scout in PC. i think. lol that would be DJINN Marauder and he preforms very well with it so long as he has an ace team to back him up. Roner General also does very good with his scout suit, two very different playstyles though.
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 411	Posted - 2013.10.13 14:54:00 - [21] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Now before everybody starts foaming at the mouth and chanting: Elitist, Elitist, burn the Elitist. Take a second to hear me out. As we all know, the current public match finder is plagued with unbalanced variables. Team sizes, Gear, Lack of roles...etc. Therefore, why would anyone try to use data from such a broken system to balance anything. It would be like trying to build a skyscraper on a sandy foundation. Now no one is saying PC is perfect, but it is definitely more consistent than public matches. CCP I highly suggest that for weapon balance, you use PC statistics. Anyways, I wish people just tired PC before commenting how awesome the AR is every situation, because it really is not. LOL I'm still waiting on CCP to apply these changes: New Breach AR/SMG stats: Breach AR Damage - 63.7 HP (STD), 66.8 HP (ADV), 70.1 HP (PRO) Breach AR RoF - 450 High Kick for Breach AR Breach SMG RoF - 882.8 Breach SMG clip size - 62 Slightly Higher Kick for Breach SMG New Logistics changes: Slot layout has low count on all dropsuits to prevent high HP (it's a medic class not an Officer Assault suit) CPU/PG would be lowered to accommodate above change New Grenade Stats: All Grenade types except Fused will have Max. Ammo of 2 Grenades cannot be resupplied from Nanohives, this is to prevent spam and use it tactically. Fused Locus Grenade - 350 dmg, 2.5 splash radius, 9 CPU and 2 PG M2 Contact Locus Grenade - 400 dmg, 2.8 splash Radius, 18 CPU and 3 PG Thukker Contact Locus Grenade - 450 dmg, 3.0 splash radius, 48 CPU and 6 PG [Changes to contact grenades must be made together with "No resupply" change. New stats for Ammar Commando: Shield - 320 HP Armor - 320 HP Shield Recharge Rate - 17.0 HP/s CPU/PG would receive a slight increase Ammar Commando Bonus - 10% to efficacy of Shield/Armor Modules per level New Sentinel bonus: 3% to handheld weapon damage resistance per level Plasma Cannon Assault Variant: Same Splash Damage stats as the current PLC Base Splash Radius is 3.8 m Max. Ammo at 12 Charge time is .6 s Plasma Cannon Normal Variant: 20% higher Splash damage than the Assault Variant Base Splash Radius is 3.5 m Charge time is 1 s The operation skill for the Plasma Cannon weapon is to be replaced with 5% Splash Radius increase per level. Did that hurt when you pulled this list out of your ass? God damn.
Alpha 443-6732 843 Boot Camp 141	Posted - 2013.10.13 15:03:00 - [22] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Now before everybody starts foaming at the mouth and chanting: Elitist, Elitist, burn the Elitist. Take a second to hear me out. As we all know, the current public match finder is plagued with unbalanced variables. Team sizes, Gear, Lack of roles...etc. Therefore, why would anyone try to use data from such a broken system to balance anything. It would be like trying to build a skyscraper on a sandy foundation. Now no one is saying PC is perfect, but it is definitely more consistent than public matches. CCP I highly suggest that for weapon balance, you use PC statistics. Anyways, I wish people just tired PC before commenting how awesome the AR is in every situation, because it really is not. It should have been like this the whole time...
Eyemakerwet R 0 N 1 N 86	Posted - 2013.10.13 15:06:00 - [23] - Quote Been in plenty pc matches and weapons do not work differently in pc. They dont magicaly change going into pc match instead of a pub.
ReGnYuM TeamPlayers EoN. 1029	Posted - 2013.10.13 15:12:00 - [24] - Quote Eyemakerwet wrote: Been in plenty pc matches and weapons do not work differently in pc. They dont magicaly change going into pc match instead of a pub. why do trash even bother posting my thread?
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER TeamPlayers EoN. 2003	Posted - 2013.10.13 15:12:00 - [25] - Quote What he's saying is when looking at numbers and compiling data, the stats acquired from pPC where everyone is running the best they have against each other, should be the foundation for balancing weapons and gear in this game. The damage of a weapon should be based on its efficiency vs proto, not vs random sh1TBUMS #s 361-594. and trust me alldins list is nothing. Pop quiz him on random statistics he will likely give u a precise answer
Eyemakerwet R 0 N 1 N 87	Posted - 2013.10.13 15:25:00 - [26] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Eyemakerwet wrote: Been in plenty pc matches and weapons do not work differently in pc. They dont magicaly change going into pc match instead of a pub. why do trash even bother posting my thread? I have one or two bad pc matches and im trash? Whateves. Just because u have better gg than me doesnt mean I dont understand weapon ballance. The ar we use today is nothing oike what it will be when the other rifles come out. I understand till they do they cant do anything to the weapon. But realy, think about it how does pc change anyting about a weapons performance. It doesnt!!! What does change is the framerate and lag. game performance in pc is garbage.
Canari Elphus Pro Hic Immortalis 649	Posted - 2013.10.13 15:31:00 - [27] - Quote Also, tournaments should be a good point for data as well as it will pit better and better teams against each other. The issues with using PUB matches for data is that there is no way to get rid of other possible variables that could be affecting the data. - SP level of opponents. Skill plays a big roll in the effectiveness of your gear. - Squads versus Randoms. Squads with mics and coordinated game play are always at an advantage over groups of randoms. They let each other know where enemies are, can effectively use scanners and usually travel together so you have instances where multiple people are engaging one target. - Variation in level of gear. You have people in militia, standard, advanced and even proto all at the same time and that isnt even speaking to the skill of the players. Does a very skilled player in standard gear taking out bad players using proto as a crutch mean that the game is balanced? What about guys who have proto gear but are terrible at fitting it? PC removes many of these variables from the equation and allows you to focus on the gear.
DJINNDicknoseturdwaffle Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 63	Posted - 2013.10.13 15:31:00 - [28] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Now before everybody starts foaming at the mouth and chanting: Elitist, Elitist, burn the Elitist. Take a second to hear me out. As we all know, the current public match finder is plagued with unbalanced variables. Team sizes, Gear, Lack of roles...etc. Therefore, why would anyone try to use data from such a broken system to balance anything. It would be like trying to build a skyscraper on a sandy foundation. Now no one is saying PC is perfect, but it is definitely more consistent than public matches. CCP I highly suggest that for weapon balance, you use PC statistics. Anyways, I wish people just tired PC before commenting how awesome the AR is in every situation, because it really is not. I've never seen anyone use ascr in pc if I get on later I might try it....I agree with you but my point is they can't use eve logic then make it act completely different...blasters are short range high damage now if they wish to explain this other than being a holding weapon then I'm okay with it
JL3Eleven PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 997	Posted - 2013.10.13 15:39:00 - [29] - Quote Eyemakerwet wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Eyemakerwet wrote: Been in plenty pc matches and weapons do not work differently in pc. They dont magicaly change going into pc match instead of a pub. why do trash even bother posting my thread? I have one or two bad pc matches and im trash? Whateves. Just because u have better gg than me doesnt mean I dont understand weapon ballance. The ar we use today is nothing oike what it will be when the other rifles come out. I understand till they do they cant do anything to the weapon. But realy, think about it how does pc change anyting about a weapons performance. It doesnt!!! What does change is the framerate and lag. game performance in pc is garbage. It's not the weapons per se but the players and the tactics they use. Good players wait for a buddy to assist in the murder spree and also hide behind cover while firing. While the newberries run solo and fire prematurely and not in the best tactical position. Ideally if the game is balanced at the top end it will be balanced at the bottom end.
8213 Grade No.2 364	Posted - 2013.10.13 15:43:00 - [30] - Quote Some could argue that P/C is unbalanced because it is the platform for all of the DUST 514 exploits; taking advantage of the parts where the game is lopsided. Plus, what percentage of the playerbase plays P/C anymore?

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