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Knight Soiaire
Rent-A-Taxi
2547
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 01:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
The most worthless role in DUST right now.
You may say that title belong to Dropships, but dropships have uses that no other class can match, like getting to high grounds.
What have Scouts got? Besides a fancy name.
We may strafe faster, but its minimal, and its useless in gunfights.
We may be able to speed tank, but, we trade a lot of HP to do so, whereas med frames can almost match our sprint, with twice, to three times our eHP.
We cant even Scout our Scan radius is the same as every other suit in the game.
Every thing we can do, it can be matched by almost every single other class in the game.
Making Scouts, the most useless role in DUST, hands down.
Dropships are in a bad position, but at least they've got some idea of where they're heading.
I know you've acknowledged that Scouts need some love, but we need to know what you plan on doing, and when you plan on doing it. |
Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1466
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 01:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
LOL you're already doing it wrong. What the heck is a scout doing in a gunfight? That isn't its role on the battlefield. That's why scouts have low HP because they are...scouts. Scouts are deployed with the minimal for their own effectiveness.
A good scout lurks in the shadows and never go head on in confrontation. If you want that, you should be playing as an Assault player. |
Knight Soiaire
Rent-A-Taxi
2547
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 01:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:LOL you're already doing it wrong. What the heck is a scout doing in a gunfight? That isn't its role on the battlefield. That's why scouts have low HP because they are...scouts. Scouts are deployed with the minimal for their own effectiveness.
A good scout lurks in the shadows and never go head on in confrontation. If you want that, you should be playing as an Assault player.
Get out.
How do you expect a Scout to Scout with 10m Scan Radius?
The same as every other dropsuit.
Dont say an Active Scanner, because Meds can also use that. |
Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1466
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 01:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
Here's the thing...
When some scouts mention their HPs, I laugh. I look at like this, a sniper and his spotter are deployed on the battlefield in a undisclosed location. They are the most vulnerable but yet the most deadly. They can demoralize the enemy for they can take out key personnel without their location spotted. Hiding in shadows, they create hysteria while providing significant intel to their allies. Scouts are to play the background, never the forefront.
Their effectiveness comes in that they are able to move at incredible speeds. Their defense is that shotty which protects them from hair raising situations.
Yes, everybody can use a scanner. But not everybody can traverse the battlefield as well as scouts.
It just seems like some scouts are trying to make the scout into something akin to a Assault/Scout class. That goes against the format of the scout. The scout is weak in general, but his power comes from lurking in shadows, communicating intel, preventing hacks, sneak and kill maneuvers and his low visibility on radar.
I don't know, I ran across some scouts that do that perfectly. I'm hacking and they drop me quickly. If I see one, they know to run for the hills for they are not equipped to take on any other classes dead on. He's looking to find cover and return to its obscurity. A scout's movements should be outside the battlefield while when it infiltrates, it shouldn't be anywhere near the reds. That's a death warrant.
So when I hear scouts complain about the roles, I often hear HP arguments, what other classes can do and such. You are defeating the purpose of the scout by your playstyle. If you wanted more HP, then you would be heavier, thus making you slower. Why else do Scout suits look like a little kid can fit into the dropsuit? You sacrifice HP for speed. |
Knight Soiaire
Rent-A-Taxi
2547
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 02:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
My Minnie Med runs .6m/s slower than my Scout.
With twice as much HP.
He can also use a Shotgun. |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1124
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 02:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Knight Soiaire wrote:My Minnie Med runs .6m/s slower than my Scout.
With twice as much HP.
He can also use a Shotgun.
And a scanner. There's no point in them right now. Well, if they got some stat buffs (speeds and scanning ability), got another eq. slot, and got a octopus cloak, I bet they would be beast. |
Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1467
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 02:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
Knight Soiaire wrote:My Minnie Med runs .6m/s slower than my Scout.
With twice as much HP.
He can also use a Shotgun.
Because he's a medium frame, that's why he has twice as much. Anyone can use a shotgun, its not Scout class specific, It's just viable to use shottys as an extra line of defense so to speak.
You just want speed, HP and offensive power...which nullifies your role as a Scout.
|
Phazoid
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
53
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 02:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
scouts dont need more hp, i am a scout, we need more speed, strafing and cloaks, now many times we find ourselves on a gunfight 1 on 1 with our target, we are coming from behind and then our prey turns, boom gunfight, we need far mor speed, and cloaks and cpu/pg buff, we cant fit anything on those suits |
Knight Soiaire
Rent-A-Taxi
2547
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 02:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
I never said Scouts needed more HP.
I'm just asking CCP where they're trying to take Scouts.
I need a reply, I'm so close to deleting Dust. |
Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1467
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 02:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
LOL I'm voting against cloaks for my own sake! |
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Bleeding Knight
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
35
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 02:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Knight Soiaire wrote:Michael Arck wrote:LOL you're already doing it wrong. What the heck is a scout doing in a gunfight? That isn't its role on the battlefield. That's why scouts have low HP because they are...scouts. Scouts are deployed with the minimal for their own effectiveness.
A good scout lurks in the shadows and never go head on in confrontation. If you want that, you should be playing as an Assault player. Get out. How do you expect a Scout to Scout with 10m Scan Radius? The same as every other dropsuit. Dont say an Active Scanner, because Meds can also use that. Meds can use a lot of things it doesn't mean other suits can't. If you don't like active scanners use modules that improve that. |
Knight Soiaire
Rent-A-Taxi
2547
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 02:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bleeding Knight wrote:Knight Soiaire wrote:Michael Arck wrote:LOL you're already doing it wrong. What the heck is a scout doing in a gunfight? That isn't its role on the battlefield. That's why scouts have low HP because they are...scouts. Scouts are deployed with the minimal for their own effectiveness.
A good scout lurks in the shadows and never go head on in confrontation. If you want that, you should be playing as an Assault player. Get out. How do you expect a Scout to Scout with 10m Scan Radius? The same as every other dropsuit. Dont say an Active Scanner, because Meds can also use that. Meds can use a lot of things it doesn't mean other suits can't. If you don't like active scanners use modules that improve that.
And sacrifice my two Biotics in my lows?
Nope. |
Bleeding Knight
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
35
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 02:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Knight Soiaire wrote:Bleeding Knight wrote:Knight Soiaire wrote:Michael Arck wrote:LOL you're already doing it wrong. What the heck is a scout doing in a gunfight? That isn't its role on the battlefield. That's why scouts have low HP because they are...scouts. Scouts are deployed with the minimal for their own effectiveness.
A good scout lurks in the shadows and never go head on in confrontation. If you want that, you should be playing as an Assault player. Get out. How do you expect a Scout to Scout with 10m Scan Radius? The same as every other dropsuit. Dont say an Active Scanner, because Meds can also use that. Meds can use a lot of things it doesn't mean other suits can't. If you don't like active scanners use modules that improve that. And sacrifice my two Biotics in my lows? Nope. You can always convince a logy to use an active scanner with their position compromise try sneaking up on the reds. Scan dampers would really help against red active scanners. |
Thurak1
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
276
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 02:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
Knight Soiaire wrote:The most worthless role in DUST right now.
You may say that title belong to Dropships, but dropships have uses that no other class can match, like getting to high grounds.
What have Scouts got? Besides a fancy name.
We may strafe faster, but its minimal, and its useless in gunfights.
We may be able to speed tank, but, we trade a lot of HP to do so, whereas med frames can almost match our sprint, with twice, to three times our eHP.
We cant even Scout our Scan radius is the same as every other suit in the game.
Every thing we can do, it can be matched by almost every single other class in the game.
Making Scouts, the most useless role in DUST, hands down.
Dropships are in a bad position, but at least they've got some idea of where they're heading.
I know you've acknowledged that Scouts need some love, but we need to know what you plan on doing, and when you plan on doing it. dropships also are great for earning me wp's. |
Knight Soiaire
Rent-A-Taxi
2548
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 02:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Bleeding Knight wrote:Knight Soiaire wrote:Bleeding Knight wrote:Knight Soiaire wrote:Michael Arck wrote:LOL you're already doing it wrong. What the heck is a scout doing in a gunfight? That isn't its role on the battlefield. That's why scouts have low HP because they are...scouts. Scouts are deployed with the minimal for their own effectiveness.
A good scout lurks in the shadows and never go head on in confrontation. If you want that, you should be playing as an Assault player. Get out. How do you expect a Scout to Scout with 10m Scan Radius? The same as every other dropsuit. Dont say an Active Scanner, because Meds can also use that. Meds can use a lot of things it doesn't mean other suits can't. If you don't like active scanners use modules that improve that. And sacrifice my two Biotics in my lows? Nope. You can always convince a logy to use an active scanner with their position compromise try sneaking up on the reds. Scan dampers would really help against red active scanners.
I dont really need dampeners.
Its the only good thing about being a Scout. |
Oswald Rehnquist
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
290
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 02:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
Scouts do in fact need help, and as one I have good days with ratios of 1.5-3 and bad days of .8-1.2 ratios, its essentially a very unstable class and is entirely dependent on the fact that the enemy is not used to dealing with scouts but medium frames. Once this unfamiliarity wares off then we would be in more trouble.
I propose the following small changes
1)Scan Precision changed from 45 to 40 2)Scan Profile changed from 45 to 40 3)Scan Radius changed from 10 to 20 4)Speed Gap changed from .4+ to .7+ 5)+1 Equipment Slot 6)Reduced Fall Damage 7)Improved Stamina Mechanics (since speed has an unofficial cap) 8) CPU/PG increase due to low slot count, might as well be more efficient with those slots
We also need functions that work to help us with entering/exiting hostile encounters, having an active scout module of cloaking would do just that. Also EWAR should be a scout only domain, which would make us negative logis would would be a unique role just for us.
My personal thoughts at any rate, I have more on what I think each should suit should do as well. |
Joel II X
AHPA
25
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 03:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
Oswald Rehnquist wrote:Scouts do in fact need help, and as one I have good days with ratios of 1.5-3 and bad days of .8-1.2 ratios, its essentially a very unstable class and is entirely dependent on the fact that the enemy is not used to dealing with scouts but medium frames. Once this unfamiliarity wares off then we would be in more trouble.
I propose the following small changes
1)Scan Precision changed from 45 to 40 2)Scan Profile changed from 45 to 40 3)Scan Radius changed from 10 to 20 4)Speed Gap changed from .4+ to .7+ 5)+1 Equipment Slot 6)Reduced Fall Damage 7)Improved Stamina Mechanics (since speed has an unofficial cap) 8) CPU/PG increase due to low slot count, might as well be more efficient with those slots
We also need functions that work to help us with entering/exiting hostile encounters, having an active scout module of cloaking would do just that. Also EWAR should be a scout only domain, which would make us negative logis would would be a unique role just for us.
My personal thoughts at any rate, I have more on what I think each should suit should do as well. I think what you said pretty much sums it up. Seeing these aren't radical changes, it's actually a good idea. |
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
1529
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 03:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
Lots of good feedback in this thread, on both sides of the buff debate.
I'm with OP in that it'd be nice to know what CCP has planned for Scouts. |
BLACKSTAR AND TSUBAKI
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
123
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 03:34:00 -
[19] - Quote
Knight Soiaire wrote:The most worthless role in DUST right now.
You may say that title belong to Dropships, but dropships have uses that no other class can match, like getting to high grounds.
What have Scouts got? Besides a fancy name.
We may strafe faster, but its minimal, and its useless in gunfights.
We may be able to speed tank, but, we trade a lot of HP to do so, whereas med frames can almost match our sprint, with twice, to three times our eHP.
We cant even Scout our Scan radius is the same as every other suit in the game.
Every thing we can do, it can be matched by almost every single other class in the game.
Making Scouts, the most useless role in DUST, hands down.
Dropships are in a bad position, but at least they've got some idea of where they're heading.
I know you've acknowledged that Scouts need some love, but we need to know what you plan on doing, and when you plan on doing it.
i think the op needs to go read some scouting how to's on these forums
and also read up on scan presicion vs scan radius
and i dont kno bout useless ... hardmode yes useless hell no
i went 33/11 with 2150 wp earlier and you call that useless and all with std mini light frame and sg/ kn
bah useless op go back to D-UNI
|
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
1529
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 03:40:00 -
[20] - Quote
FYI: ALL Knight's a solid scout who's been at it awhile. |
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Vyuru
Bojo's School of the Trades
10
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 04:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
Quote:and i dont kno bout useless ... hardmode yes useless hell no
He's not calling scouts useless, he is saying they are the most useless out of the classes, there is a slight difference there.
I'm with the OP, I'd like to know more about where CCP is going to take scouts. They said something about scouts being tweaked in what, 1.6/1.7? Assuming no delays of course.
I will say that I don't think that EWAR should be a scout only domain, but it should be what scouts specialize at. Otherwise I agree with most of what Oswald suggests.
To me, a scout is lighter, faster and all that to gain benefits to enhanced native scan ranges, sneakier, stuff like that. Right now we're only slightly sneakier and faster, but we lack any kind of EWAR benefit. We got most of the negatives with not enough of the benefits. We're not the eyes on the battlefield that we should be.
I'm frankly pretty happy with our combat abilities as they currently are. I most definitely would like a cloak of some kind to help with infiltration/assassination.
And while I'm wishing, can Minmatar scouts get a native 1hp/s health regen? Especially seeing as how the assault and logi suits have it, and all Minmatar suits have extra rolls of duct tape? That'd open up a low slot for me and make me a very happy camper!
And yes OP, go back to D-UNI, I think that as a whole, you guys got more skilled players than SVER. |
Knight Soiaire
Rent-A-Taxi
2557
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 12:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
BLACKSTAR AND TSUBAKI wrote:Knight Soiaire wrote:The most worthless role in DUST right now.
You may say that title belong to Dropships, but dropships have uses that no other class can match, like getting to high grounds.
What have Scouts got? Besides a fancy name.
We may strafe faster, but its minimal, and its useless in gunfights.
We may be able to speed tank, but, we trade a lot of HP to do so, whereas med frames can almost match our sprint, with twice, to three times our eHP.
We cant even Scout our Scan radius is the same as every other suit in the game.
Every thing we can do, it can be matched by almost every single other class in the game.
Making Scouts, the most useless role in DUST, hands down.
Dropships are in a bad position, but at least they've got some idea of where they're heading.
I know you've acknowledged that Scouts need some love, but we need to know what you plan on doing, and when you plan on doing it. i think the op needs to go read some scouting how to's on these forums and also read up on scan presicion vs scan radius and i dont kno bout useless ... hardmode yes useless hell no i went 33/11 with 2150 wp earlier and you call that useless and all with std mini light frame and sg/ kn bah useless op go back to D-UNI
Ask any Competitive corp, what they'd prefer.
A speed tanked Min Logi / Cal Logi, or Speed Tanked Scout.
Maybe we are useful at owning blueberries in pub matches, like every other class in the game, but in PC, corps would prefer to fill our slot with a Logi.
We are useless in the way that another role can do what we do, but better.
Calamity Jane and Anne Oakley proved how useless Scouts were, and still are. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
1607
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 12:49:00 -
[23] - Quote
Knight Soiaire wrote:We are useless in the way that another role can do what we do, but better.
Calamity Jane and Anne Oakley proved how useless Scouts were, and still are.
This is significant. If the suit is generally excluded from upper tier play then there is something wrong. Either that or scouts are relatively useless under the current regime as was originally suggested.
This doesn't mean you can't have fun playing one or that you can't do anything to earn points.
|
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
1531
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 13:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
NB4: Gal scouts are competitive with triple plates and 600+ HP.
^Personally, I hate that I have to bastardize my stealthy assassin fits with armor. But its the only way to compete at the moment. Would be nice to have other options. |
OZAROW
WarRavens League of Infamy
812
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 15:35:00 -
[25] - Quote
[quote=Michael Arck]LOL you're already doing it wrong. What the heck is a scout doing in a gunfight? That isn't its role on the battlefield. That's why scouts have low HP because they are...scouts. Scouts are deployed with the minimal for their own effectiveness.
A good scout lurks in the shadows and never go head on in confrontation. If you want that, you should be playing as an Assault player.[/quote Dear got make this merc smarter! Hey wtf are you even talking about? The whole reason for the op s post is exactly this! We have no advantage, range only applies to a gallente an the proto gives you 15 an the skill gives you 5 but if your minmatar your the same as everyone else, plus you can never beat 15 db an if you wanna beat 28 db you lose one out of two mod slots. CPu an pg is horrible, an nothing sets us apart.
As far as killing goes, what happens when you hack a cru solo an a squad spawns in? Where are scouts a lot of the time? I ll tell you..... Somewhere solo, so with $hit speed,HP,scan radius, one equipment slot an horrible CPU an pg how awesome do you think our load outs are? The op is trying to point out that you can't do d!ck to hide or scan safely without running a proto just to fill it full of range an persicion mods an profile dampeners, just to see. , be slower or equal to other suits when that ewar should already have a huge gap between scouts an any other suit an it doesn't ! Our base scan is the same as everything else, an if spotting a shotgun scout half way across the map an killing him with a AR from 60 meters away doesn't prove his point than your a idiot! |
Phazoid
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
55
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 19:01:00 -
[26] - Quote
im getting tired of assaults telling scouts how we should play, or what our role is, we are less than 4% percent of dust playerbase, and still we get a lot of kills and WP and normally are on the top of the scoreboard, we hack, we assasinate, we drop equipment, we scan, but that not our role it seems, nobody should take it personally, i mean scouts right now have a long time playing as scouts and they are probably the top players of dust, not all of us of course, but guys like marauder or lightning or shotty know what they are talking about and are plainly amazing using a broken suit with no posibilities to fit anything big, only proto lets us fit things, and the isk cost when we die is not fun |
Eyemakerwet
R 0 N 1 N
92
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 19:51:00 -
[27] - Quote
BLACKSTAR AND TSUBAKI wrote:Knight Soiaire wrote:The most worthless role in DUST right now.
You may say that title belong to Dropships, but dropships have uses that no other class can match, like getting to high grounds.
What have Scouts got? Besides a fancy name.
We may strafe faster, but its minimal, and its useless in gunfights.
We may be able to speed tank, but, we trade a lot of HP to do so, whereas med frames can almost match our sprint, with twice, to three times our eHP.
We cant even Scout our Scan radius is the same as every other suit in the game.
Every thing we can do, it can be matched by almost every single other class in the game.
Making Scouts, the most useless role in DUST, hands down.
Dropships are in a bad position, but at least they've got some idea of where they're heading.
I know you've acknowledged that Scouts need some love, but we need to know what you plan on doing, and when you plan on doing it. i think the op needs to go read some scouting how to's on these forums and also read up on scan presicion vs scan radius and i dont kno bout useless ... hardmode yes useless hell no i went 33/11 with 2150 wp earlier and you call that useless and all with std mini light frame and sg/ kn bah useless op go back to D-UNI
He doesnt apear to be trying to make the scoout a kill/wp machine. He is trying to make the scout a viable and usefull role on the battlefield. Everyone tries to argue about using a scout in a pub match. Pc is a totally different story. Every other class in a pc match has their place and can useually do what a scout can do better. scout needs a defined role to not only be usefull but essential to have a succesful team in pc. |
Everything Dies
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
158
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 19:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
Currently having fun using my basic Gallente scout as a defensive ninja. Set down some REs, hide in the shadows and then get the drop on any poor red that tries to solo hack any nearby nodes/CRUs. 100 shields/149 armor in total, with dampeners in the low slots. Not worried about armor rep as chances are that if I'm taking damage to my armor, I'm as good as dead. |
Tupni
Capital Acquisitions LLC Public Disorder.
43
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 20:11:00 -
[29] - Quote
A stealth scout can make some decent WP now by sneaking to the enemy's flank and simply scanning, so that was an improvement for this update. Otherwise I know what you mean, sure, there's sniping, but the assault suit is best for that with its higher HP and extra slots.
Scanning? Everyone but a basic heavy can do that just fine and without scout's sharing telemetry their natural abilities are meaningless to the team. Not to mention the natural ability of their suits are pretty lame compared to an active scanner.
Ambush? Stalking someone for five minutes to sneak in when they're alone can work, IF you're not spotted AND they don't turn around and blow you away. And then it's only the one kill for minutes of work. If you're bold enough you could take on a squad with say a mass driver or something else fast and powerful. But you're a lame duck one you're spotted.
Hacking? Isn't the Minotaur logi the best at that? Do any racial scout suits get a bonus to that? Not to mention your stealth is meaningless if there's anyone nearby to simply blow you away.
Direct combat isn't even a thing, AV is a possibility but that's dicey, logi is better at medic, it really boils down to speed then and that's a great skill if you know how to use it. But without the ability to project force and take hits it's next to pointless.
To be fair, I haven't played scout in a long time, this is just my impression. |
Lightning xVx
R 0 N 1 N
254
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 21:39:00 -
[30] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:LOL you're already doing it wrong. What the heck is a scout doing in a gunfight? That isn't its role on the battlefield. That's why scouts have low HP because they are...scouts. Scouts are deployed with the minimal for their own effectiveness.
A good scout lurks in the shadows and never go head on in confrontation. If you want that, you should be playing as an Assault player.
I think you need to play TF2 |
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