So I was playing another fun game of skirmish today when all of a sudden, blues started disappearing from my radar.

What?

So I go check out what's going on only to die to 3 F**KING TANKS! Holy t*ts! Not one, but three! And to make things even worse, ground soldiers started coming in.

F**k this! It's Nerf or nothing!

I just camped at Objective C and dealt with soldiers that came into range without help from the tanks.

We finally got to score a win for Gallente FW before alI got to score a free hacked tank, though.

There needs to be a limit of tanks in a match (heck, there needs to be a limit for all vehicles).

Ambush - 0 tanks, 1 LAV per side, and 1 dropship per side.
Skirmish - Depends on how many objectives there are, but 1-2 tanks per side, 2-4 LAV's per side, and 2-3 dropships per side.
Domination - 1 tank per side, 2 LAV's per side, and 1 dropship per side.

At the very least tanks need to be perma banned from all forms of ambush, dropships too.

To be honest it's a fair argument if one team has 5 tanks on the field (thats the most I have ever seen on one team) and especially those god-tanks that have 15mil+ SP into them, is a bit unfair and denies the whole field to almost all infantry (except snipers and forges on buildings).

often times in skirmish games, if your team has lots of tanks/dropships you won't have the numbers to take and hold objectives.
Also if I ever got into a game and was unable to call in my vehicle I would be pissed. You cant expect me to run around in militia gear. Why not make it so we only allow 4 ars, 2 md, 2 snipers, and one fg to add diversity. so no not a fair argument

Edit :char made the same argument

so why weren't you in one of the tanks gunner seats?

(btw im not anti-tank so thats not my approach to this)

To be honest it's a fair argument if one team has 5 tanks on the field (thats the most I have ever seen on one team) and especially those god-tanks that have 15mil+ SP into them, is a bit unfair and denies the whole field to almost all infantry (except snipers and forges on buildings).

I guess it comes down to me being selfish and feeling that I can get more kills or have a better chances of surviving. besides me being in a gunners seat doesn't really help the numbers for the guys trying to cap objectives unless its a map that I can be covered easily by the tank to hop out and capture. Mostly I'm greedy for kills

Its a bit unfair when a team has five 15mil sp proto bear on their side, the result is the same. Except that you can hide from a tank.

To be honest it's a fair argument if one team has 5 tanks on the field (thats the most I have ever seen on one team) and especially those god-tanks that have 15mil+ SP into them, is a bit unfair and denies the whole field to almost all infantry (except snipers and forges on buildings).

To be honest it's a fair argument if one team has 5 tanks on the field (thats the most I have ever seen on one team) and especially those god-tanks that have 15mil+ SP into them, is a bit unfair and denies the whole field to almost all infantry (except snipers and forges on buildings).

not any more unfair than a team of proto (1) sniper (2) duvolle assaults (1) callogi w/ freedom (1) heavy (1)assault forge
....or (6) duvolle callogis. lol


anything that gets spammed is annoying...except core locus grenades and ARs for some reason.

Its a bit unfair when a team has five 15mil sp proto bear on their side, the result is the same. Except that you can hide from a tank.

HAV should defo be punted from Ambush, and a cap on skirmish seems logical

HAV should defo be punted from Ambush, and a cap on skirmish seems logical

not any more unfair than a team of proto (1) sniper (2) duvolle assaults (1) callogi w/ freedom (1) heavy (1)assault forge
....or (6) duvolle callogis. lol

Here's the flaw with that analogy... infantry are vulnerable to everything in the game, and most players are equipped to kill infantry specifically. A militia AR can take out my 220k proto suit in about a second. It gets 1-2 shotted by a militia sniper, 1 shotted against any shotgun.. etc etc.

However tanks and vehicles require very specific weapons to take out, and a lot of the time need the perfect situation and scenario to pull off successfully. And when infantry are running AV, they are vulnerable to all the other anti-infantry units on the field (including the vehicles that can insta-kill the AV player).


For vehicles to be fair in this game, all suits need a dedicated AV light weapon slot with dedicated PG and CPU (that way the extra slot or CPU/PG can't be used to beef up the suit for non-AV purposes). Tanks are universally good against everything, however infantry has to choose whether to be useful against vehicles and unless against infantry, or 100% useless against vehicles and useful against infantry.

If a MLT AR is taking you out that fast, you're doing it wrong.

He went full Lueko; don't ever go full Lueko.

Imagine 4 of these....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COHnqYkKbf4&feature=youtu.be

I am pretty good and can drop people fast, but nowhere near as fast as that thing without stopping, nor cross the battlefield at that speed with my Imperial SCR or be that invulnerable with my 22.5m SP spend in my Proto dropsuit, Infantry role.

These guys don't even get the time to spawn properly or form any type of resistance, if i get 40+ kills, i had to work really hard for it, almost dying or dying at multiple occasions, this guy in the tank is just driving derp aim is all over the place, activating all modules when he engages but mows down people like a kid in a candy store.

Tanks need a reality check.

Imagine 4 of these....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COHnqYkKbf4&feature=youtu.be

I am pretty good and can drop people fast, but nowhere near as fast as that thing without stopping, nor cross the battlefield at that speed with my Imperial SCR or be that invulnerable with my 22.5m SP spend in my Proto dropsuit, Infantry role.

These guys don't even get the time to spawn properly or form any type of resistance, if i get 40+ kills, i had to work really hard for it, almost dying or dying at multiple occasions, this guy in the tank is just driving derp aim is all over the place, activating all modules when he engages but mows down people like a kid in a candy store.

Tanks need a reality check.

Imagine 4 of these....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COHnqYkKbf4&feature=youtu.be

I am pretty good and can drop people fast, but nowhere near as fast as that thing without stopping, nor cross the battlefield at that speed with my Imperial SCR or be that invulnerable with my 22.5m SP spend in my Proto dropsuit, Infantry role.

These guys don't even get the time to spawn properly or form any type of resistance, if i get 40+ kills, i had to work really hard for it, almost dying or dying at multiple occasions, this guy in the tank is just driving derp aim is all over the place, activating all modules when he engages but mows down people like a kid in a candy store.

Tanks need a reality check.

Let's see... not much AV, combined with competent infantry support to fight off those that do have AV. I don't see a problem here.

If a MLT AR is taking you out that fast, you're doing it wrong.

you should notice that there is only 4 events of a single av guy firing on legend the entire match.... if your trying to make it into an argument, you should have argued that the enemy team shouldv had more people going AV instead of just 1 guy doing it 4 times with militia AV out of the whole battle.

No i am trying to point out that the tank is completely impervious vs anything these guys can field, at least in PS2 or 1 or others Troops can always field an extra AV weapon, here they have to choose between....or go commando ...yeah ...no

Well sure, I could tank my logi suit to get some asinine amount of HP that might buy me 1 more second of militia AR fire, but then I wouldn't be able to have anything else on my suit except for raw HP, my weapon and would be slow as hell. Not exactly practical or fun.

Due to AR's having improved hit-detection, their DPS is actually accurate. Militia AR is dealing out 425 DPS with no upgraded skills, my current proto suit has 574 HP. All it takes is somebody to aim at my suit for 1.3 seconds, and I am down (not counting headshot bonus or shield/armor differences). And with the loss of team wide tacnet, it is very possible now to be snuck up on or be surprised. Go ahead, count to 1.3 seconds, it isn't very long... and that is if they are using a militia AR with no skills or damage mods and arent scoring headshots.

With full proficiency skill, I am dead in 1.1 seconds. And with 3 damage mods, dead in 0.92 seconds. So best case scenario with a player who has nothing upgraded and is just using a militia AR, I am dead in 1.3 seconds, worst case scenario with a militia AR, I am dead in 0.92 seconds.

funny thing is that the only militia grade weapon ar that I can think of to give that amount of damage with and without damage mods are the exiles.

Exile is STD grade, it has the same damage but with a larger magazine in comparison to the militia.


Some math fun:

Militia AR has 34 HP damage per bullet @ 750 RPM

750 RPM /60 = 12.5 Rounds per second

12.5 RPS * 34 = 425 DPS

Believe it or not, the militia AR does just that.

Remember what happened when infantry complained about contact grenades, and what happens when we complain about AV grenades.

Here's the flaw with that analogy... infantry are vulnerable to everything in the game, and most players are equipped to kill infantry specifically. A militia AR can take out my 220k proto suit in about a second. It gets 1-2 shotted by a militia sniper, 1 shotted against any shotgun.. etc etc.

However tanks and vehicles require very specific weapons to take out, and a lot of the time need the perfect situation and scenario to pull off successfully. And when infantry are running AV, they are vulnerable to all the other anti-infantry units on the field (including the vehicles that can insta-kill the AV player).


For vehicles to be fair in this game, all suits need a dedicated AV light weapon slot with dedicated PG and CPU (that way the extra slot or CPU/PG can't be used to beef up the suit for non-AV purposes). Tanks are universally good against everything, however infantry has to choose whether to be useful against vehicles and unless against infantry, or 100% useless against vehicles and useful against infantry.

Exile is STD grade, it has the same damage but with a larger magazine in comparison to the militia.


Some math fun:

Militia AR has 34 HP damage per bullet @ 750 RPM

750 RPM /60 = 12.5 Rounds per second

12.5 RPS * 34 = 425 DPS

Believe it or not, the militia AR does just that.

hm, if that's the case, then how can anything be designated militia, std, adv or proto if there are weapons that have the same stats as 2 different grades

ok then, if that's your case then I have counters to that.

1. The Legend345 is one of the best tankers in the game, there is no way he would ever go down to a single AV guy with militia AV or be stupid enough to let a bunch of AV guys get the jump on him and kill him.

2. the enemy only seemed to have a single AV guy go at him 4 different times during the entire match, with militia grade gear I might add. it was their own fault for not bringing out AV to deal with legend.

3. in the realm of new eden, everything revolves around sacrifice and isk, you cannot gain something without letting another thing go in return, you cannot overcome someone more advanced than you or more hardened than you unless you have nough or more sp and or isk to do it here.

4. legend had his entire squad dedicated to helping him, isn't that what you infantry want us to do, use teamwork? I thought it was... oh wait, your probably trying to say that its not teamwork unless its how you use teamwork. the enemy team didn't even have 2 guys go after him.

5. if you expect one our best to get taken downy by a single scrub with militia AV, then you need help.

hm, if that's the case, then how can anything be designated militia, std, adv or proto if there are weapons that have the same stats as 2 different grades

If you don't see any problems here, there is something very wrong with you or youre are a tanker, the guys that came out of their training most likely all quit the game or the next game will.

There is a very fundamental diffrence between Eve's pvp and Dust, in Eve its your choice to pvp (you might get ganked once in a while) or not, in Dust all these little guys are being thrown in with against squads and then you have the Tanks.

Back in Eve when Titans came out, there was nothing wrong with them either because they were ISK balanced "cough", yet could kill an entire 50+ man fleet with one Doomsday Driveby shot but hey they were balanced by ISK cost!


But hey, HTFU right ....lets see you HTFU when your tank is nerfed below ground....

Ive never liked vehicles in shooters, most likely because we didnt have them back in our Counter-Strike glory days but these tanks are out of whack, especially when one side fields 4 of them.

I sometimes feel sorry for new people trying Dust.

Its the Meta levels filling in small diffrences inbetween grades.....



I didnt see a whole lot of tactics, just a tank zerging in and spraying & praying mate he can even afford to aim that bad because he knows nothing can and will touch him, maybe that ammo limit will fix that bit who knows, i would like to see someone do that amount of damage with his so called OP AR in such a short time, aint happening...

He went full Lueko; don't ever go full Lueko.

They don't have the same stats. As per the first line of my previous post, the Exile has a larger magazine (and maybe more accuracy, not sure about that though as I am not in-game to verify).

Militia AR = 45 rounds per magazine
Exile and STD AR have 60 rounds per magazine.

Similar to the Militia swarms, which shoot 4 missiles per volley, while STD shoot 6 missiles per volley. Both have the same damage per missile, but STD are able to shoot more missiles per volley.

They don't have the same stats. As per the first line of my previous post, the Exile has a larger magazine (and maybe more accuracy, not sure about that though as I am not in-game to verify).

Militia AR = 45 rounds per magazine
Exile and STD AR have 60 rounds per magazine.

Similar to the Militia swarms, which shoot 4 missiles per volley, while STD shoot 6 missiles per volley. Both have the same damage per missile, but STD are able to shoot more missiles per volley.

Its the Meta levels filling in small diffrences inbetween grades.....



I didnt see a whole lot of tactics, just a tank zerging in and spraying & praying mate he can even afford to aim that bad because he knows nothing can and will touch him, maybe that ammo limit will fix that bit who knows, i would like to see someone do that amount of damage with his so called OP AR in such a short time, aint happening...

I saw only MLT AV hitting his HAV. Point moot.

in your post before mine, you said that the exile is std grade, has the same damage as a militia riffle yet has an increased mag/

now the funny part, the announcement for the vehicle changes is that it will bring back 20k ehp vehicles like we had in closed beta. you heard it right! do some math and check yourself.

If you don't see any problems here, there is something very wrong with you or youre are a tanker, the guys that came out of their training most likely all quit the game or the next game will.

There is a very fundamental diffrence between Eve's pvp and Dust, in Eve its your choice to pvp (you might get ganked once in a while) or not, in Dust all these little guys are being thrown in with against squads and then you have the Tanks.

Back in Eve when Titans came out, there was nothing wrong with them either because they were ISK balanced "cough", yet could kill an entire 50+ man fleet with one Doomsday Driveby shot but hey they were balanced by ISK cost!


But hey, HTFU right ....lets see you HTFU when your tank is nerfed below ground....

Ive never liked vehicles in shooters, most likely because we didnt have them back in our Counter-Strike glory days but these tanks are out of whack, especially when one side fields 4 of them.

I sometimes feel sorry for new people trying Dust.

the less people in the gunner seats the better off the team is, mainly because they will actually be hacking stuff instead of letting everything turn red while they pad their kd and shoot randomly at nothing.

I have watched and studied thus vid several times and there acctually was an abundanse of adv av on field as well as forge guns..........but if you wach none of them par 1 or 2 mercs ever target the tank ...... none of them move to higher ground to cover more area and most of the other av that never targeted tge tank werw to busy farming wp by shooting lol turrets instead of the imediate threat.....just another example of how unintelegent bluberrys are not how op tanks are.

HAHAHAHA! Well, it depends on the weapons type, but shield tanks with 2 basic hardeners will take 0% damage vs explosives. So, really, we might as well have 1,000,000,000 EHP. Hahahha. It'll be great for those of us with a brain in our head. The other tankers will die. It'll go back to the top 20 tankers causing 99% of the QQ and the other 95% of tankers not living through the first engagement.

Perhaps you have never had two good gunners. I have played with Steel Dark Night when he puts on a proto turret for me and we do good work. Andyes, I jump out and hack or shoot people as needed. Works even better with three people.