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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
864
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Posted - 2013.10.09 13:55:00 -
[31] - Quote
I want it on HMGs and Shotties. But, this game is built to suit the Caldari AR/SMG build.
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Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
412
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Posted - 2013.10.09 14:02:00 -
[32] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Dexter307 wrote:I though sharpshooter effected hipfire It does, but that's part of the problem. It creates an issue when certain weapons become less reliant on ADS, especially when that encroaches on another weapon's area. The SMGs are meant to be the automatic hipfire weapons, but the AR's end up being just as good, if not better, once Sharpshooter is trained. This may be why SMG has SS as well, but that just exacerbates the issue and doesn't really make the SMG 'better' since the SMG still has a very small effective range. This allows the AR to be used as both, with the higher DPS, high clip, better optimal, and fast reload. You can carry an SMG or a Nanohive, either does the same thing now and the Nanohive is cheaper. I usually ADS with my SMG unless I'm point blank |
WARCHILD 434
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.10.09 17:13:00 -
[33] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Is the Sharpshooter skill really necessary? Remember the old Sharpshooter? It totally borked the ranges of guns, completely ruining the game. They split it up into a separate skill for each gun, and it still borked the game. Now it's been changed to a lowered dispersion, removing the one balancing factor on the guns they grace with it (AR, SMG, soon the CR), and the other weapons are left in the cold.
So, the question: Do we really NEED Sharpshooter? Personally, I say no. I don't think it should be reworked, I don't think it should be redone, I don't think it should be put on all guns. I think it should be excised like the cancer it has always been, refund the SP put into it, and let us go about our short, rapidly cloned lives.
Edit: I've had complaints about the OP not being clear, so let me be transparent.
Sharpshooter is a name with alot of weight behind it for those of us who suffered to it in the old builds. Combined with the unfair singling out of the AR and SMG, and confirmed to be the CR as well, the other guns don't get anything equivalent and could not benefit from this skill being ported over to them. Why do the AR and SMG get a new skill to increase their DPS and decrease their reliance on ADS? Why does the AR get this at all when it is the SMG's job to be the hipfire sidearm? Why are all the other guns left out, both Vehicle and Infantry mounted? Why is it even called Sharpshooter when it has nothing to do with the old Sharpshooter and it has nothing to do with Sharpshooting(srs, call it spaghetti western, that would make sense)?
The skill just begs so many questions and I don't want the Combat Rifle, the gun I've been waiting for for more than a year, to be bogged down in the bad karma of Sharpshooter. It isn't fair to any of the other weaponry professionals that they don't have another skill to sink SP into, and it isn't fair to the professionals of the AR and SMG that they need to put SP into these skills to be competitive with their own kind.
Also, someone put up a decent point. The skill narrows the cone on hipfire, which isn't a straight-up buff. It may cause you to miss more often than not, like tightening the cone on a shotty. This is a prime example of a skill that hurts the user, and no skill should hurt the learner in any way because they cannot be toggled off. The whole point of the skill system is to give you more power than people that don't have the skill, to give you an advantage without any drawbacks. Your fitting and ship/suit are where you choose drawbacks, as you can change them. This is just inexcusable, no matter how minor.
There, my OP is now wordy. Watch all the people who will just comment on the subject line now...
So bottomline. The skill should not be here if they aren't going to give it the treatment that Operations and Proficiency have and port it to all guns. The skill should not be here if it has any conceivable downsides. The skill should not be here if it makes one gun take over the role of another. The skill should not be here. Thank you for your time.
funny thing is i just found this out last night when i aquired sharpshooter level 3 for the Assault Rifle... it literally shrinks your hipfire crosshairs.. this is a nerf and a buff at the same time!! nerf: harder to track enemy players in close range due to a smaller crosshair (level 3 and beyond especially).. buff: as was said less reliance on ADS but only from medium range do you benefit.. heres why: you can be quicker on your feet due to not ADS which makes you move much slower than hipfiring..
i think i'll have that respec now... |
Zedra Faiolin
PiZzA DuDeS
7
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Posted - 2013.10.09 17:49:00 -
[34] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Everything Dies wrote:I agree that the skill does seem to greatly favor the rapid-fire weapons; there needs to be some sort of replacement skill that'd be beneficial to other weapons (maybe increase the RoF of sniper rifles, make the beam wider for laser rifles, etc.) Lets brainstorm a few then. RULES: Skill cannot have any conceivable downside. You are free to contest anything in the list as being OP or as having a downside. It also cannot increase DPS. Bad skill ideas include faster ROF on rapid-fire weaponry, higher zoom, and damage buffs. Also, try to avoid things that are already done by weapon variants, like the Mass Driver already has more damage for direct hits in the form of the Breach MD. Laser Rifle: Wider beam; faster convergence Plasma Cannon: Faster Projectile Scrambler Rifle: Faster Charge Sniper Rifle: Faster Refire Mass Driver: Faster Projectile Flaylock Pistol: Faster Projectile Swarm Launcher: Faster Projectile; More Agile Projectile
Focusing on the 'Skill cannot have any conceivable downside' does that mean mass drivers and forge guns should not have weapon proficiency since a conceivable downside is they do more damage to themselves with proximity explosions?
Trolling aside I really don't understand your argument that the game should be balanced from an Skill / SP perspective. If a weapon needs a new SP sink to become balanced that fact should be able to stand on its own two feet, and not comparitive argument that, because A exist for X, B needs to exist for Y. |
8213
Grade No.2
341
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Posted - 2013.10.09 18:12:00 -
[35] - Quote
Sharpshooter is so the AR doesn't fall behind. As all other primaries shoot perfectly straight shots out of the barrel. The shotgun has the same thing to reduce dispersion as well. HMGs do not need it as they fire more rounds than anything in the game. |
8213
Grade No.2
341
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Posted - 2013.10.09 18:15:00 -
[36] - Quote
Rynoceros wrote:I want it on HMGs and Shotties. But, this game is built to suit the Caldari AR/SMG build.
It IS on shotguns... And HMGs shouldn't have it, or they'd be OP like back in Chromosome |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
1080
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Posted - 2013.10.09 20:50:00 -
[37] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:Dexter307 wrote:I though sharpshooter effected hipfire It does, but that's part of the problem. It creates an issue when certain weapons become less reliant on ADS, especially when that encroaches on another weapon's area. The SMGs are meant to be the automatic hipfire weapons, but the AR's end up being just as good, if not better, once Sharpshooter is trained. This may be why SMG has SS as well, but that just exacerbates the issue and doesn't really make the SMG 'better' since the SMG still has a very small effective range. This allows the AR to be used as both, with the higher DPS, high clip, better optimal, and fast reload. You can carry an SMG or a Nanohive, either does the same thing now and the Nanohive is cheaper. I usually ADS with my SMG unless I'm point blank
That's good. As I said, the SMG is THE hipfire gun. |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
1080
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Posted - 2013.10.09 20:52:00 -
[38] - Quote
Zedra Faiolin wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:Everything Dies wrote:I agree that the skill does seem to greatly favor the rapid-fire weapons; there needs to be some sort of replacement skill that'd be beneficial to other weapons (maybe increase the RoF of sniper rifles, make the beam wider for laser rifles, etc.) Lets brainstorm a few then. RULES: Skill cannot have any conceivable downside. You are free to contest anything in the list as being OP or as having a downside. It also cannot increase DPS. Bad skill ideas include faster ROF on rapid-fire weaponry, higher zoom, and damage buffs. Also, try to avoid things that are already done by weapon variants, like the Mass Driver already has more damage for direct hits in the form of the Breach MD. Laser Rifle: Wider beam; faster convergence Plasma Cannon: Faster Projectile Scrambler Rifle: Faster Charge Sniper Rifle: Faster Refire Mass Driver: Faster Projectile Flaylock Pistol: Faster Projectile Swarm Launcher: Faster Projectile; More Agile Projectile Focusing on the 'Skill cannot have any conceivable downside' does that mean mass drivers and forge guns should not have weapon proficiency since a conceivable downside is they do more damage to themselves with proximity explosions? Trolling aside I really don't understand your argument that the game should be balanced from an Skill / SP perspective. If a weapon needs a new SP sink to become balanced that fact should be able to stand on its own two feet, and not comparitive argument that, because A exist for X, B needs to exist for Y.
The point isn't that the game should be balanced from a SP standpoint, but that the SP standpoint should be balanced as well. Imagine if all the guns in the game existed in a true imperfect balance system, but the skills behind them weren't. The Skills would determine which guns people would use, as certain ones would be relegated obsolete by their lack of skills. My primary argument is the removal of Sharpshooter to prevent that scenario, but if it isn't removed then the other guns should have equivalents. |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
1080
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Posted - 2013.10.09 21:04:00 -
[39] - Quote
8213 wrote:Sharpshooter is so the AR doesn't fall behind. As all other primaries shoot perfectly straight shots out of the barrel. The shotgun has the same thing to reduce dispersion as well. HMGs do not need it as they fire more rounds than anything in the game.
The other primaries all shoot straight? The AR SHOULD shoot perfectly straight? Are you on walnuts? The AScR doesn't shoot straight and doesn't get a skill for it. The Mass Driver has a noticeable kick and a severe arc. The Shotgun's spread is randomized. None of these weapons 'shoot straight' and none are harmed by it because that is part of the gun's feature set. ARs are not SUPPOSED to fire straight! And furthermore, as a guy with AR Ops I and a STD AR, they REALLY do not need a 'catchup' skill. If anything, they should be left in the DUST as they are the starter weapon. If you want them to remain competitive, and you think they need Sharpshooter to be such... I cannot break through to you, its a solid brick-tank of willful ignorance. |
Daxxis KANNAH
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
396
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Posted - 2013.10.09 21:38:00 -
[40] - Quote
Everything Dies wrote:I agree that the skill does seem to greatly favor the rapid-fire weapons; there needs to be some sort of replacement skill that'd be beneficial to other weapons (maybe increase the RoF of sniper rifles, make the beam wider for laser rifles, etc.)
Correct - All other weapons should get a skill that increases their potency as well or SS should be done away with and SP refunded to those users. |
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
3734
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Posted - 2013.10.09 21:47:00 -
[41] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:
No, what broke it was the Viziams and Duvolles(mostly Duvolles) becoming sniper rifles.
Some people ran them with full damage mods. I still have nightmares, sometimes. |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
1082
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Posted - 2013.10.09 22:14:00 -
[42] - Quote
Daxxis KANNAH wrote:Everything Dies wrote:I agree that the skill does seem to greatly favor the rapid-fire weapons; there needs to be some sort of replacement skill that'd be beneficial to other weapons (maybe increase the RoF of sniper rifles, make the beam wider for laser rifles, etc.) Correct - All other weapons should get a skill that increases their potency as well or SS should be done away with and SP refunded to those users.
Yea, that's what I said :c |
Everything Dies
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
148
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Posted - 2013.10.10 01:44:00 -
[43] - Quote
Now that I think of it, the bonus for the sniper rifle should be a crosshair that displays the general area in which you can hipfire. Obviously wouldn't be able to zoom or anything...but the SR should be able to be fired at close range out of desperation (while having some idea of where you're actually shooting!) Higher level = smaller area. |
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