DUST Search - Sharpshooter Skill, good, bad, cancer?

Zedra Faiolin wrote:

Zero Harpuia wrote:

Everything Dies wrote:

I agree that the skill does seem to greatly favor the rapid-fire weapons; there needs to be some sort of replacement skill that'd be beneficial to other weapons (maybe increase the RoF of sniper rifles, make the beam wider for laser rifles, etc.)

Lets brainstorm a few then.

RULES: Skill cannot have any conceivable downside. You are free to contest anything in the list as being OP or as having a downside. It also cannot increase DPS. Bad skill ideas include faster ROF on rapid-fire weaponry, higher zoom, and damage buffs. Also, try to avoid things that are already done by weapon variants, like the Mass Driver already has more damage for direct hits in the form of the Breach MD.

Laser Rifle: Wider beam; faster convergence
Plasma Cannon: Faster Projectile
Scrambler Rifle: Faster Charge
Sniper Rifle: Faster Refire
Mass Driver: Faster Projectile
Flaylock Pistol: Faster Projectile
Swarm Launcher: Faster Projectile; More Agile Projectile

Focusing on the 'Skill cannot have any conceivable downside' does that mean mass drivers and forge guns should not have weapon proficiency since a conceivable downside is they do more damage to themselves with proximity explosions?

Trolling aside I really don't understand your argument that the game should be balanced from an Skill / SP perspective. If a weapon needs a new SP sink to become balanced that fact should be able to stand on its own two feet, and not comparitive argument that, because A exist for X, B needs to exist for Y.


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Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1076	Posted - 2013.10.08 00:49:00 - [1] - Quote Is the Sharpshooter skill really necessary? Remember the old Sharpshooter? It totally borked the ranges of guns, completely ruining the game. They split it up into a separate skill for each gun, and it still borked the game. Now it's been changed to a lowered dispersion, removing the one balancing factor on the guns they grace with it (AR, SMG, soon the CR), and the other weapons are left in the cold. So, the question: Do we really NEED Sharpshooter? Personally, I say no. I don't think it should be reworked, I don't think it should be redone, I don't think it should be put on all guns. I think it should be excised like the cancer it has always been, refund the SP put into it, and let us go about our short, rapidly cloned lives.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1077	Posted - 2013.10.08 06:33:00 - [2] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Coming up next from Zero Harpuia "Do we really need to able to aim down sights" Theres an alt I use with all his SP so far put into his suit and upgrades and such, nothing spent on weapons so no sharpshooter bonus there, and with just the milita weapons I still hit what Im aiming at with minimal shots missing You want to know how I do it? Its not from a broken skill, its from using my damn sights Sharpshooter only helps those spraying from the hip and only a moron sprays from the hip all the time since even with the skill its usefulness drops off drastically past a few meters So all those guys killing you from a distance with accurate fire, those are the guys with more experience in the genre that know how to aim, none of this bunny hopping spray and pray bullshit from the 90s What's with all the venom? I not once complained about being killed, in any way. I want it gone because it is a skill sink and does little to nothing beyond making hipfire too accurate, nothing more, and until it is removed they will keep adding it to newer guns like the Combat Rifle. If they want to add another skill to the pile, that's fine, but they should just single out the most popular, most common, easiest-to-skill guns and just give them more skills. The SCRs would probably like a new skill in their tree to shorten charge times, the Plasma Cannons probably would like a skill to speed the projectile, the Forge Guns would probably like a skill to increase walking speed while charging. The problem I have with the skill is that it shows blatant favoritism to certain automatic weapons, while leaving out every other gun. That, and the name Sharpshooter is just bad juju after the first two iterations of the skill backfired horribly. Also, seriously. That venom. Did I run over your puppy? Did I smuggle walnuts in your freighter? What?
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1077	Posted - 2013.10.08 23:43:00 - [3] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: I like the idea of having deeper SP sinks for weapons, rewarding people who sink in a bunch of SP at the expense of other things. My concern with sharpshooter is that it doesn't exist for every weapon. It should be a respectable weapon-specific bonus. So maybe shotgun sharpshooter 5 gives a 20% boost to the ROF. The plasma cannon might get a 20% buff to projectile velocity. The Laser rifle might get a boost to range, etc. What made sharpshooter broken before was the shotguns taking people down from far away, and the HMGs behaving more like ARs. No, what broke it was the Viziams and Duvolles(mostly Duvolles) becoming sniper rifles. Personally, I never saw much issue with the extra range on LRs, but the code was broken and also legthened the area of weakness on the LR, forcing LR users to play from farther and farther distances. As we have gone over before, skills doing anything negative to the skiller are BAD, and should be drug out and shot in the streets as an example to the rest. Also, the percentage base made certain guns, like the AR, get MUCH more mileage out of the skill in comparison to shorter ranged weapons like the shotty or weapons that already had more range than they needed, like the FG or SR. The range profiles of the guns were getting out of whack, and that killed the game because it added rock scissors into rock-paper-scissors. You could try to kill the TAR with the Sniper Rifle, but if he trained SS then he could snipe you at any range that the piddly 2x scope on the SR was useful at. Furthermore, he was better than normal TAR or AR users at the edge of their optimal, because his optimal was farther. This made the skill the end-all-be-all in the open maps, which at the time were ALL of the maps save Biomass. For the current Sharpshooter, the issue is that it tightens the gap between Hipfire and ADS fire, and that it unfairly targets a small pool of guns. Everyone would like a skill to make their guns just thaaaaaaaat much better, but only the AR and SMG, the most banal, basic, by-the-numbers guns in the game get it. Even then, it makes the AR do the job of the SMG far too efficiently, namely a hipfire weapon with enough bullets and spread to deter and finish off a target. Why would you change to an inferior sidearm if your gun already does that and more? I suppose that may be why the SMG has the skill as well as the AR, to try and keep it relevant, but that's shooting a man in the head to cure his cancer. Sure his cancer dies, but no-one will thank you for your brilliant cure.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1078	Posted - 2013.10.08 23:57:00 - [4] - Quote HYENAKILLER X wrote: Totaly worth it. Concentrated fire helps damage and distance. I'm not saying it isn't worth it, I'm saying it shouldn't be there. Not when all the other guns haven't got an equivalent, and not when it can potentially hurt the user.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1078	Posted - 2013.10.09 00:03:00 - [5] - Quote Poonmunch wrote: Meh. It's fine. Munch its just an awkward skill is all, especially seeing as it is only on one Light and one Sidearm. I've had people tell me that they would have had a guy if they had just a tad less dispersion and turn around and say a few months and levels later that that scout would have been dead if their AR had as much dispersion as it should have. Grass is always greener I suppose.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1078	Posted - 2013.10.09 00:10:00 - [6] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: I agree that the skill does seem to greatly favor the rapid-fire weapons; there needs to be some sort of replacement skill that'd be beneficial to other weapons (maybe increase the RoF of sniper rifles, make the beam wider for laser rifles, etc.) Lets brainstorm a few then. RULES: Skill cannot have any conceivable downside. You are free to contest anything in the list as being OP or as having a downside. It also cannot increase DPS. Bad skill ideas include faster ROF on rapid-fire weaponry, higher zoom, and damage buffs. Also, try to avoid things that are already done by weapon variants, like the Mass Driver already has more damage for direct hits in the form of the Breach MD. Laser Rifle: Wider beam; faster convergence Plasma Cannon: Faster Projectile Scrambler Rifle: Faster Charge Sniper Rifle: Faster Refire Mass Driver: Faster Projectile Flaylock Pistol: Faster Projectile Swarm Launcher: Faster Projectile; More Agile Projectile
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1078	Posted - 2013.10.09 00:28:00 - [7] - Quote Jinx Rollin wrote: The old sharpshooter skill should NEVER have been changed - but the bad players needed to blame something for why they were bad. The old Sharpshooter ruined the game by ruining the gun's range profiles, the DEVs themselves stated as such. The weapons that benefited most got far too much, with the AR, TAR, and Viziam being the standouts, allowing Blaster weapon to have a comparable range profile to a Pulse Laser.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1080	Posted - 2013.10.09 13:40:00 - [8] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: I though sharpshooter effected hipfire It does, but that's part of the problem. It creates an issue when certain weapons become less reliant on ADS, especially when that encroaches on another weapon's area. The SMGs are meant to be the automatic hipfire weapons, but the AR's end up being just as good, if not better, once Sharpshooter is trained. This may be why SMG has SS as well, but that just exacerbates the issue and doesn't really make the SMG 'better' since the SMG still has a very small effective range. This allows the AR to be used as both, with the higher DPS, high clip, better optimal, and fast reload. You can carry an SMG or a Nanohive, either does the same thing now and the Nanohive is cheaper.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1080	Posted - 2013.10.09 20:50:00 - [9] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Dexter307 wrote: I though sharpshooter effected hipfire It does, but that's part of the problem. It creates an issue when certain weapons become less reliant on ADS, especially when that encroaches on another weapon's area. The SMGs are meant to be the automatic hipfire weapons, but the AR's end up being just as good, if not better, once Sharpshooter is trained. This may be why SMG has SS as well, but that just exacerbates the issue and doesn't really make the SMG 'better' since the SMG still has a very small effective range. This allows the AR to be used as both, with the higher DPS, high clip, better optimal, and fast reload. You can carry an SMG or a Nanohive, either does the same thing now and the Nanohive is cheaper. I usually ADS with my SMG unless I'm point blank That's good. As I said, the SMG is THE hipfire gun.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1080	Posted - 2013.10.09 20:52:00 - [10] - Quote Zedra Faiolin wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Everything Dies wrote: I agree that the skill does seem to greatly favor the rapid-fire weapons; there needs to be some sort of replacement skill that'd be beneficial to other weapons (maybe increase the RoF of sniper rifles, make the beam wider for laser rifles, etc.) Lets brainstorm a few then. RULES: Skill cannot have any conceivable downside. You are free to contest anything in the list as being OP or as having a downside. It also cannot increase DPS. Bad skill ideas include faster ROF on rapid-fire weaponry, higher zoom, and damage buffs. Also, try to avoid things that are already done by weapon variants, like the Mass Driver already has more damage for direct hits in the form of the Breach MD. Laser Rifle: Wider beam; faster convergence Plasma Cannon: Faster Projectile Scrambler Rifle: Faster Charge Sniper Rifle: Faster Refire Mass Driver: Faster Projectile Flaylock Pistol: Faster Projectile Swarm Launcher: Faster Projectile; More Agile Projectile Focusing on the 'Skill cannot have any conceivable downside' does that mean mass drivers and forge guns should not have weapon proficiency since a conceivable downside is they do more damage to themselves with proximity explosions? Trolling aside I really don't understand your argument that the game should be balanced from an Skill / SP perspective. If a weapon needs a new SP sink to become balanced that fact should be able to stand on its own two feet, and not comparitive argument that, because A exist for X, B needs to exist for Y. The point isn't that the game should be balanced from a SP standpoint, but that the SP standpoint should be balanced as well. Imagine if all the guns in the game existed in a true imperfect balance system, but the skills behind them weren't. The Skills would determine which guns people would use, as certain ones would be relegated obsolete by their lack of skills. My primary argument is the removal of Sharpshooter to prevent that scenario, but if it isn't removed then the other guns should have equivalents.

Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1080	Posted - 2013.10.09 21:04:00 - [11] - Quote 8213 wrote: Sharpshooter is so the AR doesn't fall behind. As all other primaries shoot perfectly straight shots out of the barrel. The shotgun has the same thing to reduce dispersion as well. HMGs do not need it as they fire more rounds than anything in the game. The other primaries all shoot straight? The AR SHOULD shoot perfectly straight? Are you on walnuts? The AScR doesn't shoot straight and doesn't get a skill for it. The Mass Driver has a noticeable kick and a severe arc. The Shotgun's spread is randomized. None of these weapons 'shoot straight' and none are harmed by it because that is part of the gun's feature set. ARs are not SUPPOSED to fire straight! And furthermore, as a guy with AR Ops I and a STD AR, they REALLY do not need a 'catchup' skill. If anything, they should be left in the DUST as they are the starter weapon. If you want them to remain competitive, and you think they need Sharpshooter to be such... I cannot break through to you, its a solid brick-tank of willful ignorance.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1082	Posted - 2013.10.09 22:14:00 - [12] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Everything Dies wrote: I agree that the skill does seem to greatly favor the rapid-fire weapons; there needs to be some sort of replacement skill that'd be beneficial to other weapons (maybe increase the RoF of sniper rifles, make the beam wider for laser rifles, etc.) Correct - All other weapons should get a skill that increases their potency as well or SS should be done away with and SP refunded to those users. Yea, that's what I said :c