DUST Search - Sharpshooter Skill, good, bad, cancer?

CommanderBolt wrote:

Delta 749 wrote:

Coming up next from Zero Harpuia "Do we really need to able to aim down sights"
Theres an alt I use with all his SP so far put into his suit and upgrades and such, nothing spent on weapons so no sharpshooter bonus there, and with just the milita weapons I still hit what Im aiming at with minimal shots missing
You want to know how I do it? Its not from a broken skill, its from using my damn sights

Sharpshooter only helps those spraying from the hip and only a moron sprays from the hip all the time since even with the skill its usefulness drops off drastically past a few meters
So all those guys killing you from a distance with accurate fire, those are the guys with more experience in the genre that know how to aim, none of this bunny hopping spray and pray bullshit from the 90s

Hey, hey! I resent that!

The 90`s wasn't 'Spray and prey' bs as you so eloquently put it.

Unreal Tournament - late 90`s - Map, Facing worlds with the sniper rifle required aimed shots, as did the pulse rifle with those exploding balls of death!
Precision!

I blame each individual to what they do! Every FPS I've ever played warrants aiming lol.

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Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1076	Posted - 2013.10.08 00:49:00 - [1] - Quote Is the Sharpshooter skill really necessary? Remember the old Sharpshooter? It totally borked the ranges of guns, completely ruining the game. They split it up into a separate skill for each gun, and it still borked the game. Now it's been changed to a lowered dispersion, removing the one balancing factor on the guns they grace with it (AR, SMG, soon the CR), and the other weapons are left in the cold. So, the question: Do we really NEED Sharpshooter? Personally, I say no. I don't think it should be reworked, I don't think it should be redone, I don't think it should be put on all guns. I think it should be excised like the cancer it has always been, refund the SP put into it, and let us go about our short, rapidly cloned lives.
lrian Locust BLACK OP SNIPERS General Tso's Alliance 153	Posted - 2013.10.08 00:53:00 - [2] - Quote I agree. Besides, it's a bad name: sharpshooting refers to good aiming. A good aim is not the same as less dispersion. Especially the AR gets too powerful at long range. Perhaps sharpshooter makes sense with other weapons (I don't know, as I don't have any experience with them), but at least not for AR.
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2046	Posted - 2013.10.08 00:56:00 - [3] - Quote Coming up next from Zero Harpuia "Do we really need to able to aim down sights" Theres an alt I use with all his SP so far put into his suit and upgrades and such, nothing spent on weapons so no sharpshooter bonus there, and with just the milita weapons I still hit what Im aiming at with minimal shots missing You want to know how I do it? Its not from a broken skill, its from using my damn sights Sharpshooter only helps those spraying from the hip and only a moron sprays from the hip all the time since even with the skill its usefulness drops off drastically past a few meters So all those guys killing you from a distance with accurate fire, those are the guys with more experience in the genre that know how to aim, none of this bunny hopping spray and pray bullshit from the 90s
Quil Evrything DUST University Ivy League 219	Posted - 2013.10.08 00:58:00 - [4] - Quote I dont think its appropriate to have any weapon that fires full auto @400RPM+, to be "sharpshooter" capable. The whole notion is ludicrous. Even if you have a perfectly balanced weapon, the fact that you are a bipedal, non-fixed stand, will skew the aim, I would think. Unless you're crouched, sniper style, perhaps.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 533	Posted - 2013.10.08 01:07:00 - [5] - Quote Lolno. People skill into it and get it and it works how it's intended. Maybe call it something like Gun-Mastery or something but other than that, it cool. It's not OP nor is it useless.
CommanderBolt A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 381	Posted - 2013.10.08 01:11:00 - [6] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Coming up next from Zero Harpuia "Do we really need to able to aim down sights" Theres an alt I use with all his SP so far put into his suit and upgrades and such, nothing spent on weapons so no sharpshooter bonus there, and with just the milita weapons I still hit what Im aiming at with minimal shots missing You want to know how I do it? Its not from a broken skill, its from using my damn sights Sharpshooter only helps those spraying from the hip and only a moron sprays from the hip all the time since even with the skill its usefulness drops off drastically past a few meters So all those guys killing you from a distance with accurate fire, those are the guys with more experience in the genre that know how to aim, none of this bunny hopping spray and pray bullshit from the 90s Hey, hey! I resent that! The 90`s wasn't 'Spray and prey' bs as you so eloquently put it. Unreal Tournament - late 90`s - Map, Facing worlds with the sniper rifle required aimed shots, as did the pulse rifle with those exploding balls of death! Precision! I blame each individual to what they do! Every FPS I've ever played warrants aiming lol.
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Cult of War 439	Posted - 2013.10.08 01:14:00 - [7] - Quote My gun does not have it so i can't comment.
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2046	Posted - 2013.10.08 01:16:00 - [8] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Delta 749 wrote: Coming up next from Zero Harpuia "Do we really need to able to aim down sights" Theres an alt I use with all his SP so far put into his suit and upgrades and such, nothing spent on weapons so no sharpshooter bonus there, and with just the milita weapons I still hit what Im aiming at with minimal shots missing You want to know how I do it? Its not from a broken skill, its from using my damn sights Sharpshooter only helps those spraying from the hip and only a moron sprays from the hip all the time since even with the skill its usefulness drops off drastically past a few meters So all those guys killing you from a distance with accurate fire, those are the guys with more experience in the genre that know how to aim, none of this bunny hopping spray and pray bullshit from the 90s Hey, hey! I resent that! The 90`s wasn't 'Spray and prey' bs as you so eloquently put it. Unreal Tournament - late 90`s - Map, Facing worlds with the sniper rifle required aimed shots, as did the pulse rifle with those exploding balls of death! Precision! I blame each individual to what they do! Every FPS I've ever played warrants aiming lol. Yeah Ill concede that point, it wasnt all rocket arena stuff back then but games have put more emphasis as time as gone by to use your sights if you want to hit anything and people that come in having played more of that style of game will be more accurate with or without sharpshooter since using your sights kills dispersion completely
XxGhazbaranxX Bannana Boat Corp 386	Posted - 2013.10.08 03:16:00 - [9] - Quote The only problem I see with the skill is that other weapon that need it don't have it and weapons that don't need it don't have an extra skill to make them better. As is ARs have a skill tree advantage above other of weapons simply because they have an extra skill to make them better. If my plasma cannon had another skill to make some aspect or another better I would pour sp into without looking back. As is there is only the generic things that every weapon has and the lack of a skill that the assault rifle has for it's advantage.
Roofer Madness A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 279	Posted - 2013.10.08 03:33:00 - [10] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: The only problem I see with the skill is that other weapon that need it don't have it and weapons that don't need it don't have an extra skill to make them better. As is ARs have a skill tree advantage above other of weapons simply because they have an extra skill to make them better. If my plasma cannon had another skill to make some aspect or another better I would pour sp into without looking back. As is there is only the generic things that every weapon has and the lack of a skill that the assault rifle has for it's advantage. 1 more SP sink is not an advantage....

Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1077	Posted - 2013.10.08 06:33:00 - [11] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Coming up next from Zero Harpuia "Do we really need to able to aim down sights" Theres an alt I use with all his SP so far put into his suit and upgrades and such, nothing spent on weapons so no sharpshooter bonus there, and with just the milita weapons I still hit what Im aiming at with minimal shots missing You want to know how I do it? Its not from a broken skill, its from using my damn sights Sharpshooter only helps those spraying from the hip and only a moron sprays from the hip all the time since even with the skill its usefulness drops off drastically past a few meters So all those guys killing you from a distance with accurate fire, those are the guys with more experience in the genre that know how to aim, none of this bunny hopping spray and pray bullshit from the 90s What's with all the venom? I not once complained about being killed, in any way. I want it gone because it is a skill sink and does little to nothing beyond making hipfire too accurate, nothing more, and until it is removed they will keep adding it to newer guns like the Combat Rifle. If they want to add another skill to the pile, that's fine, but they should just single out the most popular, most common, easiest-to-skill guns and just give them more skills. The SCRs would probably like a new skill in their tree to shorten charge times, the Plasma Cannons probably would like a skill to speed the projectile, the Forge Guns would probably like a skill to increase walking speed while charging. The problem I have with the skill is that it shows blatant favoritism to certain automatic weapons, while leaving out every other gun. That, and the name Sharpshooter is just bad juju after the first two iterations of the skill backfired horribly. Also, seriously. That venom. Did I run over your puppy? Did I smuggle walnuts in your freighter? What?
Pandora Mars Afterlife Overseers 371	Posted - 2013.10.08 06:37:00 - [12] - Quote It's fine.
Ghost Kaisar Pradox One 439	Posted - 2013.10.08 06:44:00 - [13] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Sharpshooter only helps those spraying from the hip and only a moron sprays from the hip all the time since even with the skill its usefulness drops off drastically past a few meters So all those guys killing you from a distance with accurate fire, those are the guys with more experience in the genre that know how to aim, none of this bunny hopping spray and pray bullshit from the 90s Okay. Here is why you should skill into sharpshooter. Every good FPS player knows that ADS makes for accurate fire, and really helps take down distant targets. However, every GREAT FPS player knows that ADS isn't the answer to all problems. You gotta know when to hipfire, the same as how you gotta know when to ADS. Sharpshooter turns the "spray" from the hipfire into a tight cone of bullets. It actually hinders players who spray and pray, because it makes you have to aim the gun better (less total spread). In the hands of a good player however, it can DRASTICALLY increase DPS. Since more bullets land on target, you have more DPS when hipfiring. Take the SMG. I have my SMG up to 3 in proficiency, sharpshooter, and reload. The SMG is great with proficiency, but it is even more effective with Sharpshooter. A good marksman can routinely take targets down from 10m away with a hipfired SMG, and it gives you the added bonus of being able to strafe better (not ADS'ing). However, they really need to edit this skill for the AR. While the dispersion on the AR is greater than the SMG, the AR actually has a better hipfire accuracy. This means at high levels of sharpshooter, you can hipfire the AR with no problem from a distance that would astound most FPS vets. Just one of many problems with the AR's tactical supremacy at the moment.
Vell0cet Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 417	Posted - 2013.10.08 07:04:00 - [14] - Quote I like the idea of having deeper SP sinks for weapons, rewarding people who sink in a bunch of SP at the expense of other things. My concern with sharpshooter is that it doesn't exist for every weapon. It should be a respectable weapon-specific bonus. So maybe shotgun sharpshooter 5 gives a 20% boost to the ROF. The plasma cannon might get a 20% buff to projectile velocity. The Laser rifle might get a boost to range, etc. What made sharpshooter broken before was the shotguns taking people down from far away, and the HMGs behaving more like ARs.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1077	Posted - 2013.10.08 23:43:00 - [15] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: I like the idea of having deeper SP sinks for weapons, rewarding people who sink in a bunch of SP at the expense of other things. My concern with sharpshooter is that it doesn't exist for every weapon. It should be a respectable weapon-specific bonus. So maybe shotgun sharpshooter 5 gives a 20% boost to the ROF. The plasma cannon might get a 20% buff to projectile velocity. The Laser rifle might get a boost to range, etc. What made sharpshooter broken before was the shotguns taking people down from far away, and the HMGs behaving more like ARs. No, what broke it was the Viziams and Duvolles(mostly Duvolles) becoming sniper rifles. Personally, I never saw much issue with the extra range on LRs, but the code was broken and also legthened the area of weakness on the LR, forcing LR users to play from farther and farther distances. As we have gone over before, skills doing anything negative to the skiller are BAD, and should be drug out and shot in the streets as an example to the rest. Also, the percentage base made certain guns, like the AR, get MUCH more mileage out of the skill in comparison to shorter ranged weapons like the shotty or weapons that already had more range than they needed, like the FG or SR. The range profiles of the guns were getting out of whack, and that killed the game because it added rock scissors into rock-paper-scissors. You could try to kill the TAR with the Sniper Rifle, but if he trained SS then he could snipe you at any range that the piddly 2x scope on the SR was useful at. Furthermore, he was better than normal TAR or AR users at the edge of their optimal, because his optimal was farther. This made the skill the end-all-be-all in the open maps, which at the time were ALL of the maps save Biomass. For the current Sharpshooter, the issue is that it tightens the gap between Hipfire and ADS fire, and that it unfairly targets a small pool of guns. Everyone would like a skill to make their guns just thaaaaaaaat much better, but only the AR and SMG, the most banal, basic, by-the-numbers guns in the game get it. Even then, it makes the AR do the job of the SMG far too efficiently, namely a hipfire weapon with enough bullets and spread to deter and finish off a target. Why would you change to an inferior sidearm if your gun already does that and more? I suppose that may be why the SMG has the skill as well as the AR, to try and keep it relevant, but that's shooting a man in the head to cure his cancer. Sure his cancer dies, but no-one will thank you for your brilliant cure.
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 472	Posted - 2013.10.08 23:47:00 - [16] - Quote Meh. It's fine. Munch
HYENAKILLER X Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION 276	Posted - 2013.10.08 23:49:00 - [17] - Quote Totaly worth it. Concentrated fire helps damage and distance.
ShinyJay REAPERS REPUBLIC 110	Posted - 2013.10.08 23:57:00 - [18] - Quote idk about anyone else, but i never heard of a skill that reduces dispersion like that. you can mod and change parts of a gun for that, but not a skill. and a skill like that shouldn't be made exclusively for 2 guns, but each weapon should get a skill that makes them unique and sets them apart
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1078	Posted - 2013.10.08 23:57:00 - [19] - Quote HYENAKILLER X wrote: Totaly worth it. Concentrated fire helps damage and distance. I'm not saying it isn't worth it, I'm saying it shouldn't be there. Not when all the other guns haven't got an equivalent, and not when it can potentially hurt the user.
Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 139	Posted - 2013.10.09 00:01:00 - [20] - Quote I agree that the skill does seem to greatly favor the rapid-fire weapons; there needs to be some sort of replacement skill that'd be beneficial to other weapons (maybe increase the RoF of sniper rifles, make the beam wider for laser rifles, etc.)

Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1078	Posted - 2013.10.09 00:03:00 - [21] - Quote Poonmunch wrote: Meh. It's fine. Munch its just an awkward skill is all, especially seeing as it is only on one Light and one Sidearm. I've had people tell me that they would have had a guy if they had just a tad less dispersion and turn around and say a few months and levels later that that scout would have been dead if their AR had as much dispersion as it should have. Grass is always greener I suppose.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1078	Posted - 2013.10.09 00:10:00 - [22] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: I agree that the skill does seem to greatly favor the rapid-fire weapons; there needs to be some sort of replacement skill that'd be beneficial to other weapons (maybe increase the RoF of sniper rifles, make the beam wider for laser rifles, etc.) Lets brainstorm a few then. RULES: Skill cannot have any conceivable downside. You are free to contest anything in the list as being OP or as having a downside. It also cannot increase DPS. Bad skill ideas include faster ROF on rapid-fire weaponry, higher zoom, and damage buffs. Also, try to avoid things that are already done by weapon variants, like the Mass Driver already has more damage for direct hits in the form of the Breach MD. Laser Rifle: Wider beam; faster convergence Plasma Cannon: Faster Projectile Scrambler Rifle: Faster Charge Sniper Rifle: Faster Refire Mass Driver: Faster Projectile Flaylock Pistol: Faster Projectile Swarm Launcher: Faster Projectile; More Agile Projectile
Jinx Rollin Commando Perkone Caldari State 23	Posted - 2013.10.09 00:22:00 - [23] - Quote The old sharpshooter skill should NEVER have been changed - but the bad players needed to blame something for why they were bad.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1078	Posted - 2013.10.09 00:28:00 - [24] - Quote Jinx Rollin wrote: The old sharpshooter skill should NEVER have been changed - but the bad players needed to blame something for why they were bad. The old Sharpshooter ruined the game by ruining the gun's range profiles, the DEVs themselves stated as such. The weapons that benefited most got far too much, with the AR, TAR, and Viziam being the standouts, allowing Blaster weapon to have a comparable range profile to a Pulse Laser.
Jinx Rollin Commando Perkone Caldari State 23	Posted - 2013.10.09 00:38:00 - [25] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Jinx Rollin wrote: The old sharpshooter skill should NEVER have been changed - but the bad players needed to blame something for why they were bad. The old Sharpshooter ruined the game by ruining the gun's range profiles, the DEVs themselves stated as such. The weapons that benefited most got far too much, with the AR, TAR, and Viziam being the standouts, allowing Blaster weapon to have a comparable range profile to a Pulse Laser. I care not what the DEV's state. flat is flat. I want the camera sight and the old sharpshooter back so my duvolle can accurately headshot some red-berry cunts from 150m - bring on the rail-rifle muthafucka!
SILENTSAM 69 SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 564	Posted - 2013.10.09 00:46:00 - [26] - Quote This is a serious problem that makes balancing these weapons difficult. I think they should go the other way with this problem though. Instead of getting rid of the Sharp shooter skill they should introduce a new skill type for other weapon types. Laser weapons like the Scrambler pistol and rifle, and the laser rifle, could all get lens focusing skills. Explosives weapons like the Plasma Cannon, and Mass Driver, and Flaylock could get a skill to improve projectile speed, or the range of the ballistic arc or something. Basically I think that all weapon types should have some type of skill that let you use that weapon better similar to how the AR and SMG currently get the Sharpshooter skill.
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2153	Posted - 2013.10.09 00:47:00 - [27] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Swarm Launcher: Faster Projectile; More Agile Projectile Swarm Launcher does not need to be any more agile than it is.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 412	Posted - 2013.10.09 00:59:00 - [28] - Quote I though sharpshooter effected hipfire
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2154	Posted - 2013.10.09 00:59:00 - [29] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: I though sharpshooter effected hipfire It does, most people don't know that though.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1080	Posted - 2013.10.09 13:40:00 - [30] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: I though sharpshooter effected hipfire It does, but that's part of the problem. It creates an issue when certain weapons become less reliant on ADS, especially when that encroaches on another weapon's area. The SMGs are meant to be the automatic hipfire weapons, but the AR's end up being just as good, if not better, once Sharpshooter is trained. This may be why SMG has SS as well, but that just exacerbates the issue and doesn't really make the SMG 'better' since the SMG still has a very small effective range. This allows the AR to be used as both, with the higher DPS, high clip, better optimal, and fast reload. You can carry an SMG or a Nanohive, either does the same thing now and the Nanohive is cheaper.



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