DUST Search - 'Logi' Warpoint Farming - Dispelling Myths and Suggesting Solutions.

Artificer Ghost wrote:

Jack McReady wrote:

the reason assault get less WP is because they decided to not play as a team and be a selfish self sufficient KDR *****

The reason Assaults get less WP is because they aren't the ones plopping down Hives, Reps, and Revives. The Assault does the bulk of the fighting, and we keep them alive to do so.

And as for Meeko Fent, I can see what you mean, and I'l trying to say that we're SUPPOSED to tank all out. C-Logis are supposed to stack a load of shield extenders, regulators, etc. G-Logis are supposed to stack armor plates, damage mods, etc. Now, I'm not saying that this is how it should be for all playstyles, but high survivability definitely is required for Logistics. If you think they should be going on-par with Assaults, then I can definitely see why you think that, and I almost agree. They don't need a nerf as much as they need a slight tweaking. I can't think of anything off of the top of my head, but I know that in some eyes, we're severely OP.

I'm just trying to point out that we're not OP, we're doing our job. Like the Specialist or Logistics in most other games, we have the most health and the most utility. I think maybe they should reduce some slot counts though, absolutely. Primarily the C-Logi. The G-Logi has 5 lows and 3 highs, while the C-Logi has 5 highs and 4 lows. My only suggestion is that we balance that out by reducing the low cound of C-Logis by one.

Other than that, I'd say we're fine. I'd say yes to a buff for Assaults, or maybe Assault-Specific modules that decrease movement speed for more health/damage/etc. Or vice versa. But in my opinion, Logistics are fine. If anything, the Assault is a tad under-powered until PRO level. I use the G-Assault G-1, and I may as well be using the Advanced Basic Frame. Although I suppose part of that is the lack of a good bonus for the G-Assault...

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Meeko Fent DUST University Ivy League 1108	Posted - 2013.10.10 15:25:00 - [31] - Quote Yes, but do you fit CPU and PG upgrades? Any knucklehead in any game with a great deal of customizability knows that tactical gear is a second to fitting the biggest buffer you can fit. This isn't a "it beats assault, nerf it!" It's a "it's not designed to do this, why is it permitted? The assaults are the combat suits of the med frames, and the logi is the support. Support classes don't usually need more hp then the assault classes. It's like a doctor being a better policeman then a policeman. It's not in anyway odd? Lose slots, Equipment reduction bonus. You won't need to fit PG mods anymore, so it's kind of a buff to true logis, but a dial down to assault logis
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 1087	Posted - 2013.10.10 16:39:00 - [32] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Yes, but do you fit CPU and PG upgrades? Nope. My ADV Gallente Logistics fitting is as follows, and I only have 3 level in Core Upgrades, 2 in Electronics, and 2 in Engineering: 1x Gallente G/1-Series Logistics Dropsuit 1x GEK-38 Assault Rifle 1x BDR-9 Repair Tool 1x KIN-12 Nanite Injector 1x K-2 Nanohive 3x Enhanced Armor Plates 2x Basic Damage Mods I get a K/D of over 2.00 every match I use it, landing more than 12 kills. Just because of the survivability that I keep preaching about. "It's not designed to do this, so why is it permitted": Like I've said many times before, and I'll say many times after this, they're supposed to kill a lot. CCP has always made Logistics a combat-efficient class. In EVE, 10+ years of Logistic Ships that have killed and maimed and healed. It won't change. But I know in some games, the Support is near-worthless, so I could understand why you think it should be. But we actually pay for our deaths here, and a death means something bigger than "God damnit now I need to respawn!", it means "Holy hell, how will I pay this off?". So it's important that a Logistics make a good offensive class. And about the part where you said it's like a doctor being a better policeman than a policeman: All Combat Medics are supposed to live up to their name. They aren't just doctors, they're also soldiers. For over 10 years, CCP's Logistics Role has been helpful when it comes to killing AND healing, and they won't change that because a small group of people from a game that's been released for AT MOST 7 months say that the Logistics should die more than they should. I say the Logistics is balanced, and not because I use it. We don't die a lot, and we kill alot, along with bringing in the WP via supporting our teammates. The drawback? Our fits usually cost the most. One weapon isn't a big drawback, if you can survive long enough to reload it, but we need to keep our earning positive after paying for those extra modules and extra equipment slots. Thankfully, a good Logistics won't die more than 5-6 times per match.
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 1087	Posted - 2013.10.10 16:43:00 - [33] - Quote BOOM Insta-Text-Wall.
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 1438	Posted - 2013.10.10 17:47:00 - [34] - Quote Wow the Great Wall of texts lol But seriously though that's just jealousy I salute my true Logis for the work they do Your assistance is most appreciated Take number one with your high WPs You deserve it
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1164	Posted - 2013.10.10 18:15:00 - [35] - Quote Duvolle with proto gear and proto tank mods and no fitting mods...does not happen. I have engineering / electronics / light weapon operation 5, and I still need both a cpu mod and a pg mod to go proto everything on my proto logi suits. There is literally nothing else I can train to boost my fitting room - I'm maxed right out. Of course if I do that I'm blowing a giant pile of isk on a suit that's as resilient as wet toilet paper, and slow. This is why I run a GEK on everything despite having AR proficiency 4.
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 1087	Posted - 2013.10.10 18:45:00 - [36] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Wow the Great Wall of texts lol 90% of Text Walls are Ghost-Manufactured. You can buy your TextWall(TM) License today, for the low price of 100 million ISK! Seriously though, most of the text walls in this thread are by me because people think that the Logi should be useless in combat. :(
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 127	Posted - 2013.10.10 19:21:00 - [37] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Wow the Great Wall of texts lol 90% of Text Walls are Ghost-Manufactured. You can buy your TextWall(TM) License today, for the low price of 100 million ISK! Seriously though, most of the text walls in this thread are by me because people think that the Logi should be useless in combat. :( I'm not a LogiBro or play one on TV but I think you are making some good points, Ghost. I do like the idea of making the Assault and Logi suit bonus more noticable and relevant. I could see something along the lines of tiered "perks" vs a linear percentage bump to an attribute. Example: Caldari Assault LVL 1 & 2 - 5% increase in Shield extender effeciency per level; LVL 3 - 5% increase in Shield recharge; LVL 4 - 5% increase in hacking speed; and LVL 5 - 3% damage increase on all weapons/grendades. Minmatar Logi LVL 1 & 2 - 3% increase in effectivness of Needles and Hives per level; LVL 3 - 5% decrease in spawn time for dropped uplinks; LVL 4 - 3% increase in sidearm damage; LVL 5 - 6% increase in rep tool effectiveness
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 127	Posted - 2013.10.10 22:54:00 - [38] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Artificer Ghost wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Wow the Great Wall of texts lol 90% of Text Walls are Ghost-Manufactured. You can buy your TextWall(TM) License today, for the low price of 100 million ISK! Seriously though, most of the text walls in this thread are by me because people think that the Logi should be useless in combat. :( I'm not a LogiBro or play one on TV but I think you are making some good points, Ghost. I do like the idea of making the Assault and Logi suit bonus more noticable and relevant. I could see something along the lines of tiered "perks" vs a linear percentage bump to an attribute. Example: Caldari Assault LVL 1 & 2 - 5% increase in Shield extender effeciency per level; LVL 3 - 5% increase in Shield recharge; LVL 4 - 5% increase in hacking speed; and LVL 5 - 3% damage increase on all weapons/grenades. Minmatar Logi LVL 1 & 2 - 3% increase in effectivness of Needles and Hives per level; LVL 3 - 5% decrease in spawn time for dropped uplinks; LVL 4 - 3% increase in sidearm damage; LVL 5 - 6% increase in rep tool effectiveness
Meeko Fent DUST University Ivy League 1110	Posted - 2013.10.11 00:44:00 - [39] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Wow the Great Wall of texts lol 90% of Text Walls are Ghost-Manufactured. You can buy your TextWall(TM) License today, for the low price of 100 million ISK! Seriously though, most of the text walls in this thread are by me because people think that the Logi should be useless in combat. :( No, they shouldn't be useless. The should be equals with Assaults. HOWEVER, as I have been saying, the high amounts of slots given to them allows those who do their research to skill into it for the mega tank that they can fit. Logi's should have the same weapon options, and the same weapon efficiency as other classes, however they should have the same number of slots as the assault counterpart. Since the logi's are going to lose some low slots, I also propose that in place of their current blanket bonus, a bonus to CPU and PG Usage of equipment be put in, so the true logi's can still fit their equipment, but Assault Logi's Are similar to assaults in the respect of EHP. The Balance point still stands, is that logi's still have no sidearm except for the one outlier, which I am going to o speak of in a moment. The Amarr Logi's balance is that, like all logis, they will have a slight reduction in Base HP compared to the assault counterpart. Around 25-35 Less EHP. Not enough to make logi's weak, but enough so in a One on One, where all Shots land, the Assault would Win by a margin of 1 AR round, more or less. Here is my little Scale of EHP amount for Med frames (The way I think it should go) Amarr Assault Gallente Assault Caldari Assault Amarr Logi Minmatar Assault Gallente Logi Caldari Logi/Minmatar Logi I apologize for the Wall of text, however I won't tldr this. Too much stuff to go over
Timothy Reaper WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL 467	Posted - 2013.10.11 07:19:00 - [40] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: What your saying isn't the issue any of us have with logis. It's the fact, due to imbalanced slot layouts, that logis have way more EHP, and therefore preform assault roles better then assaults. The nerfs that have been proposed really don't hurt your class at all. It hurts the assault logis. As I pointed out in an earlier post, there are people who take issue with multiple nanohives/uplinks. If you have a separate issue with logis, please create a thread for that issue, and let's keep this thread on topic.

Heavenly Daughter the Aurum Grinder and Company 120	Posted - 2013.10.11 08:33:00 - [41] - Quote Timothy Reaper wrote: Another problem with this is the lag it causes. Too much junk piled in a small area makes the frame rate slow down. It was so bad in one match that a member of my squad started reffering to the area around the supply depot as 'The Hall of Lag'. No, this was not done by logis, it was done by someone rapidly switching fits to chuck out as much equipment as possible in the hopes of skimming some war points off people headed towards the supply depot anyway. I must admit, at times, not often, I would be nice o be able to remove our own gear. That person will eventually not bother if there are decent logibros in the field doing their jobs that his crap will become all but obsolete.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 670	Posted - 2013.10.11 12:36:00 - [42] - Quote the reason assault get less WP is because they decided to not play as a team and be a selfish self sufficient KDR ***** with hives to supply themself with ammo. now you are butthurt cause your scrub egos got hurt because someone else gets more points. if you would instead let the logis resupply your ammo and get an injector or scanner and from time to time stop for a second to help your team out instead of only relying on aim assisted AR to boost your ego by KDR then you would get alot more WP. additionally no one stops you from getting into a logi to set up useful spawn points in the beginning of the match. it was your decision to play like that and you get rewarded accordingly, simple as that, deal with it.
Argo Filch Cannonfodder PMC 60	Posted - 2013.10.11 12:44:00 - [43] - Quote Support the OPs post.
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 1091	Posted - 2013.10.11 13:24:00 - [44] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: the reason assault get less WP is because they decided to not play as a team and be a selfish self sufficient KDR ***** The reason Assaults get less WP is because they aren't the ones plopping down Hives, Reps, and Revives. The Assault does the bulk of the fighting, and we keep them alive to do so. And as for Meeko Fent, I can see what you mean, and I'l trying to say that we're SUPPOSED to tank all out. C-Logis are supposed to stack a load of shield extenders, regulators, etc. G-Logis are supposed to stack armor plates, damage mods, etc. Now, I'm not saying that this is how it should be for all playstyles, but high survivability definitely is required for Logistics. If you think they should be going on-par with Assaults, then I can definitely see why you think that, and I almost agree. They don't need a nerf as much as they need a slight tweaking. I can't think of anything off of the top of my head, but I know that in some eyes, we're severely OP. I'm just trying to point out that we're not OP, we're doing our job. Like the Specialist or Logistics in most other games, we have the most health and the most utility. I think maybe they should reduce some slot counts though, absolutely. Primarily the C-Logi. The G-Logi has 5 lows and 3 highs, while the C-Logi has 5 highs and 4 lows. My only suggestion is that we balance that out by reducing the low cound of C-Logis by one. Other than that, I'd say we're fine. I'd say yes to a buff for Assaults, or maybe Assault-Specific modules that decrease movement speed for more health/damage/etc. Or vice versa. But in my opinion, Logistics are fine. If anything, the Assault is a tad under-powered until PRO level. I use the G-Assault G-1, and I may as well be using the Advanced Basic Frame. Although I suppose part of that is the lack of a good bonus for the G-Assault...
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 1091	Posted - 2013.10.11 13:28:00 - [45] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: I apologize for the Wall of text, however I won't tldr this. Too much stuff to go over Also, I'm pretty sure I copyrighted TextWalls(TM)... You'll be seeing my lawyer.
Meeko Fent DUST University Ivy League 1126	Posted - 2013.10.11 13:29:00 - [46] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: I apologize for the Wall of text, however I won't tldr this. Too much stuff to go over Also, I'm pretty sure I copyrighted TextWalls(TM)... You'll be seeing my lawyer. Gah Dammit.
Meeko Fent DUST University Ivy League 1126	Posted - 2013.10.11 13:34:00 - [47] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: Jack McReady wrote: the reason assault get less WP is because they decided to not play as a team and be a selfish self sufficient KDR ***** The reason Assaults get less WP is because they aren't the ones plopping down Hives, Reps, and Revives. The Assault does the bulk of the fighting, and we keep them alive to do so. And as for Meeko Fent, I can see what you mean, and I'l trying to say that we're SUPPOSED to tank all out. C-Logis are supposed to stack a load of shield extenders, regulators, etc. G-Logis are supposed to stack armor plates, damage mods, etc. Now, I'm not saying that this is how it should be for all playstyles, but high survivability definitely is required for Logistics. If you think they should be going on-par with Assaults, then I can definitely see why you think that, and I almost agree. They don't need a nerf as much as they need a slight tweaking. I can't think of anything off of the top of my head, but I know that in some eyes, we're severely OP. I'm just trying to point out that we're not OP, we're doing our job. Like the Specialist or Logistics in most other games, we have the most health and the most utility. I think maybe they should reduce some slot counts though, absolutely. Primarily the C-Logi. The G-Logi has 5 lows and 3 highs, while the C-Logi has 5 highs and 4 lows. My only suggestion is that we balance that out by reducing the low cound of C-Logis by one. Other than that, I'd say we're fine. I'd say yes to a buff for Assaults, or maybe Assault-Specific modules that decrease movement speed for more health/damage/etc. Or vice versa. But in my opinion, Logistics are fine. If anything, the Assault is a tad under-powered until PRO level. I use the G-Assault G-1, and I may as well be using the Advanced Basic Frame. Although I suppose part of that is the lack of a good bonus for the G-Assault... I understand that, however I fail to see as having more HP then the assaults as balanced. If they had similar potential HP values, I'd shut up
Wombat in combat TeamPlayers EoN. 104	Posted - 2013.10.11 19:01:00 - [48] - Quote Or simply put a hard cap on active nanohives and drop uplinks. I propose 8 for each (as opposed to 19 as it is now). Easy to code.
Ferindar Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 69	Posted - 2013.10.11 19:43:00 - [49] - Quote My medic suit is my go to free suit when I've felt I've lost enough ISK. I do the opposite, though. I'll rez ya to use ya as a human shield.
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 1094	Posted - 2013.10.13 02:35:00 - [50] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: I understand that, however I fail to see as having more HP then the assaults as balanced. If they had similar potential HP values, I'd shut up To have the Gallente Logistics have the same POTENTIAL eHP as an Assault, we would need negative armor. Which is not that great. Plus, I'd like to point out that we're slowing than Assaults. Not by much, but note that the Assault isn't much slower than a Scout, and it has loads more HP. If you wanted Logistics to have a little bit less armor, I could see that, but it'd also need a speed buff, because having 80-something armor and being slower than an Assault is kind of awkward. And I'm pretty sure being the glass cannon is the Scouts job. Like I said, maybe buff the Assaults? I'd also like to point out that the Basic Frames have the same HP as an Assault. I COULD be using an Advanced Basic instead of a Standard Assault, because of the slot count difference. At the cost of a rather small bonus (Until you skill further), that's a pretty good deal. I don't even play Assault (I would if I had a Gallente sidearm. Pretty please, CCP? :D), and I think they need maybe an HP bonus. Small one, but enough to make a difference.

abarkrishna The Elysian Knights 12	Posted - 2013.10.14 12:20:00 - [51] - Quote Ok first off Assault suits have more armor/ shield than the logis of the same class. No matter how many proto armor plates you put on a logi you can get more on an assault. Secondly assault suits have a greater movement speed and sprint speed than logis. The fact that most races don't have a sidearm is to prevent logis from using their suits as an assault. Check your facts before complaining about something being OP. Also they call us logi bros for a reason. Just as well call you stupid blueberries for a reason. (it's because your stupid)
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 1113	Posted - 2013.10.14 22:31:00 - [52] - Quote To the guy above... I just wanted to point this out. Using the Gallente as an example, you can't get the Gallente Assault to more than a Gallente Logistics. Do the math if you'd like, but you can't make a Proto-Assault more Tanky than a Proto-Logi. There's a reason we have more slots. I'll get math to you in a bit.
Meeko Fent DUST University Ivy League 1169	Posted - 2013.10.14 22:44:00 - [53] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: To the guy above... I just wanted to point this out. Using the Gallente as an example, you can't get the Gallente Assault to more than a Gallente Logistics. Do the math if you'd like, but you can't make a Proto-Assault more Tanky than a Proto-Logi. There's a reason we have more slots. I'll get math to you in a bit. That's my point. Just have them be equal and my face is sealed
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 1114	Posted - 2013.10.14 23:01:00 - [54] - Quote Right, right. I could see why you think they are OP. But really, if you play it for a while, and hard-core it up, spec into advanced Logi, you'll see that we're balanced. Because even with that extra health, we CAN die just as quick. But in 1v1, it's still balanced because they have a sidearm to go to, and we have more tank.
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 1114	Posted - 2013.10.14 23:03:00 - [55] - Quote Ferindar wrote: I'll rez ya to use ya as a human shield. Just saw this. Funny thing, I do the exact opposite. If I'm rezzing someone that just got sniped, I turn my back towards where I think the sniper is. 99% of the time, someone tries to lay a pot-shot in my back when I do so. It never works.
Meeko Fent DUST University Ivy League 1170	Posted - 2013.10.14 23:07:00 - [56] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: Right, right. I could see why you think they are OP. But really, if you play it for a while, and hard-core it up, spec into advanced Logi, you'll see that we're balanced. Because even with that extra health, we CAN die just as quick. But in 1v1, it's still balanced because they have a sidearm to go to, and we have more tank. Hmm. Perhaps. I just seem to find it strange how when a squad of two heavies and logi come up on me and my obby, and the logi takes more shots to kill then the two heavies. Perhaps you're right in that
abarkrishna The Elysian Knights 13	Posted - 2013.10.14 23:59:00 - [57] - Quote I run gallente. in my advanced suit i have 3 low powered at proto i have 4 The exact same as an assault. both advanced suits have 3 low powered slots 2 high powered. the logi has 3 equipment while the assault has one. with 3 complex armor plates on both suits i get 670 on my adv logi suit 708 on an assault. take into account that i am slower and the lack of sidearm and this debate is irrelevant
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kinsho Swords Caldari State 6	Posted - 2013.10.15 17:30:00 - [58] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: I support this message So true. Same !!! Great post.


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