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Meeko Fent
DUST University
Ivy League
1066
   |
Posted - 2013.10.05 07:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
My issue isn't with the logis capability to logi, it's that, due to the fact that logis are given more slots, they are basically mega assaults.
While at STD, this issue is less apparent, however, looking at proto or ADV, logis win in the HP/slots battle most definitely.
From my memory, I remember the Gal logi having 5 lows, and 3 highs, whereas its assault counterpart, (the one that is supposed to be dealing/taking the damage!) has a 3/4 setup.
Why the logi needs the extra low, I do not know, but they do. Even though, due to its bonus, it actually should have either less or similar slots to its assault version (It doesn't need to fit a repper.)
Normalize the specialization hi/lo slot layouts.
If the logi has 3/5, the assault should have the same thing.
The special slots and the bonuses should make out the difference from logi to assault.
Assault-
+Sidearm
+Combat Oriented bonuses
-Few equipment
-Less opportunities for war point accruation
Logistics
+Many equipment
+Somewhat more flexible due to above
-No sidearm
-Less combat capabilities then the Assault.
tl;dr (and stuff I didn't feel like write a paragraph about!), Normalize Slots, and all other base stats between Logi and Assault. Change the sidearm, bonuses and equipment slots to tailor more towards the support or the combat archetype. |
Meeko Fent
DUST University
Ivy League
1070
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 19:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
Timothy Reaper wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Why the logi needs the extra low, I do not know, but they do. Because of the CPU/PG requirements of proto equipment. I have a proto Minmatar logi (4 high/4 low) with an advanced weapon and 4 pieces of advanced equipment and I still have to put a CPU upgrade on the suit, and the PG is at it's limit (and yes, I do have both Electronics and Engineering at level 5). Once I max out my equipment skills I'll have put a PG upgrade on the suit, plus I'll probably have to use a more expensive CPU upgrade
Then, that's where CPU and PG reduction bonuses come in.
10% reduction in CPU and PG Usage per level.
The blanket bonus they should've had. Then, they can have their tanking mod slots reduced to normal levels. |
Meeko Fent
DUST University
Ivy League
1108
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 13:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
What your saying isn't the issue any of us have with logis.
It's the fact, due to imbalanced slot layouts, that logis have way more EHP, and therefore preform assault roles better then assaults.
The nerfs that have been proposed really don't hurt your class at all. It hurts the assault logis. |
Meeko Fent
DUST University
Ivy League
1108
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 15:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yes, but do you fit CPU and PG upgrades?
Any knucklehead in any game with a great deal of customizability knows that tactical gear is a second to fitting the biggest buffer you can fit.
This isn't a "it beats assault, nerf it!" It's a "it's not designed to do this, why is it permitted?
The assaults are the combat suits of the med frames, and the logi is the support. Support classes don't usually need more hp then the assault classes.
It's like a doctor being a better policeman then a policeman.
It's not in anyway odd?
Lose slots, Equipment reduction bonus.
You won't need to fit PG mods anymore, so it's kind of a buff to true logis, but a dial down to assault logis |
Meeko Fent
DUST University
Ivy League
1110
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 00:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Artificer Ghost wrote:Michael Arck wrote:Wow the Great Wall of texts lol 90% of Text Walls are Ghost-Manufactured. You can buy your TextWall(TM) License today, for the low price of 100 million ISK! Seriously though, most of the text walls in this thread are by me because people think that the Logi should be useless in combat. :(
No, they shouldn't be useless.
The should be equals with Assaults.
HOWEVER, as I have been saying, the high amounts of slots given to them allows those who do their research to skill into it for the mega tank that they can fit.
Logi's should have the same weapon options, and the same weapon efficiency as other classes, however they should have the same number of slots as the assault counterpart.
Since the logi's are going to lose some low slots, I also propose that in place of their current blanket bonus, a bonus to CPU and PG Usage of equipment be put in, so the true logi's can still fit their equipment, but Assault Logi's Are similar to assaults in the respect of EHP.
The Balance point still stands, is that logi's still have no sidearm except for the one outlier, which I am going to o speak of in a moment.
The Amarr Logi's balance is that, like all logis, they will have a slight reduction in Base HP compared to the assault counterpart. Around 25-35 Less EHP. Not enough to make logi's weak, but enough so in a One on One, where all Shots land, the Assault would Win by a margin of 1 AR round, more or less.
Here is my little Scale of EHP amount for Med frames (The way I think it should go)
- Amarr Assault
- Gallente Assault
- Caldari Assault
- Amarr Logi
- Minmatar Assault
- Gallente Logi
- Caldari Logi/Minmatar Logi
I apologize for the Wall of text, however I won't tldr this.
Too much stuff to go over |
Meeko Fent
DUST University
Ivy League
1126
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 13:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
Artificer Ghost wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:I apologize for the Wall of text, however I won't tldr this.
Too much stuff to go over Also, I'm pretty sure I copyrighted TextWalls(TM)... You'll be seeing my lawyer.
Gah Dammit. |
Meeko Fent
DUST University
Ivy League
1126
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 13:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Artificer Ghost wrote:Jack McReady wrote:the reason assault get less WP is because they decided to not play as a team and be a selfish self sufficient KDR ***** The reason Assaults get less WP is because they aren't the ones plopping down Hives, Reps, and Revives. The Assault does the bulk of the fighting, and we keep them alive to do so. And as for Meeko Fent, I can see what you mean, and I'l trying to say that we're SUPPOSED to tank all out. C-Logis are supposed to stack a load of shield extenders, regulators, etc. G-Logis are supposed to stack armor plates, damage mods, etc. Now, I'm not saying that this is how it should be for all playstyles, but high survivability definitely is required for Logistics. If you think they should be going on-par with Assaults, then I can definitely see why you think that, and I almost agree. They don't need a nerf as much as they need a slight tweaking. I can't think of anything off of the top of my head, but I know that in some eyes, we're severely OP. I'm just trying to point out that we're not OP, we're doing our job. Like the Specialist or Logistics in most other games, we have the most health and the most utility. I think maybe they should reduce some slot counts though, absolutely. Primarily the C-Logi. The G-Logi has 5 lows and 3 highs, while the C-Logi has 5 highs and 4 lows. My only suggestion is that we balance that out by reducing the low cound of C-Logis by one. Other than that, I'd say we're fine. I'd say yes to a buff for Assaults, or maybe Assault-Specific modules that decrease movement speed for more health/damage/etc. Or vice versa. But in my opinion, Logistics are fine. If anything, the Assault is a tad under-powered until PRO level. I use the G-Assault G-1, and I may as well be using the Advanced Basic Frame. Although I suppose part of that is the lack of a good bonus for the G-Assault...
I understand that, however I fail to see as having more HP then the assaults as balanced.
If they had similar potential HP values, I'd shut up |
Meeko Fent
DUST University
Ivy League
1169
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 22:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Artificer Ghost wrote:To the guy above... I just wanted to point this out.
Using the Gallente as an example, you can't get the Gallente Assault to more than a Gallente Logistics. Do the math if you'd like, but you can't make a Proto-Assault more Tanky than a Proto-Logi. There's a reason we have more slots.
I'll get math to you in a bit.
That's my point.
Just have them be equal and my face is sealed |
Meeko Fent
DUST University
Ivy League
1170
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 23:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
Artificer Ghost wrote:Right, right. I could see why you think they are OP. But really, if you play it for a while, and hard-core it up, spec into advanced Logi, you'll see that we're balanced. Because even with that extra health, we CAN die just as quick. But in 1v1, it's still balanced because they have a sidearm to go to, and we have more tank.
Hmm.
Perhaps. I just seem to find it strange how when a squad of two heavies and logi come up on me and my obby, and the logi takes more shots to kill then the two heavies.
Perhaps you're right in that |
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