5% reduction of scan profile per level don't cut it anymore

Now that everyone is running an adv or pro scanner I can't hide from no one

Soooo you are saying the only way to counter it is to put only dampers in my low slot( No I using them for some else

The only suit capable of counter perfectly is the gallente scout and gallente meduim frame, but they will have fill 3 to all of their low slots with dampers

But that is for the Meta 9 scanner which is no where as useful as the others and is far less common. The rest can be beat with lvl 5 scout + lvl 3 dampening + a STD dampener. Seems like a fair trade to me.

Honestly, I see no problem with there being a scanner that is ridiculously difficult or impossible to beat so long as it doesn't perform as well as the others of its tier.

5% reduction of scan profile per level don't cut it anymore

Now that everyone is running an adv or pro scanner I can't hide from no one

Soooo you are saying the only way to counter it is to put only dampers in my low slot( No I using them for some else

The only suit capable of counter perfectly is the gallente scout and gallente meduim frame, but they will have fill 3 to all of their low slots with dampers

Scans SHOULD BE SCOUT ONLY equipment. Scouts job is scanning.

This way,unless its a scout, a scout cannot be detected on radar...NEVER.
Active scanners is total BS that makes Logis even more OP.

BTW yeah i play logi now and not only im an 750 HP ADV level behemoth with 2 cx damage mods on my lv 4 proficiency CR-9 Scrambler rifle, but i alwso pack nanos,needle and active scanner. Hello scouts...

SERIOUS Bs....

Having something as an active scanner, so expensive to equip and that takes 1 equipment slot YELLS for logi. While at the same time poors scouts even at proto level they have to sacrifice 3 of their miserable slot capacity JUST IN CASE a logi decides to bring his scanner around....

Your not serious i hope.... The dev said they will try to give the logi more at the logi role, so the active scanner need to be held by anybody, heavy cant have equipment and assault cant really use it so stop now, boosting logi EHP its not intended but logi need to have access to all equipment and even bringing more equipment in the game and try to actually bringing them to a logi role

But that is for the Meta 9 scanner which is no where as useful as the others and is far less common. The rest can be beat with lvl 5 scout + lvl 3 dampening + a STD dampener. Seems like a fair trade to me.

Honestly, I see no problem with there being a scanner that is ridiculously difficult or impossible to beat so long as it doesn't perform as well as the others of its tier.

On Avoiding Meta 8 Scanners:

Debugged our earlier maths and progressions. Thanks to Void and Marauder for pointing out my error on stacking percentage bonus. So here's the updated breakdown (by level):

Level 5 Scouts: Profile Dampening Lvl(2) + 1 Bsc Dampener = 27.54 dB
Level 4 Scouts: Profile Dampening Lvl(3) + 1 Enh Dampener = 27.07 dB
Level 3 Scouts: Profile Dampening Lvl(5) + 1 Enh Dampener = 27.54 dB
Level 2 Scouts: Profile Dampening Lvl(5) + 1 Cmp Dampener = 27.34 dB
Level 1 Scouts: Profile Dampening Lvl(5) + 2 Bsc Dampener = 27.80 dB
Light-Frames: Profile Dampening Lvl(3) + 2 Enh Dampener = 27.07 dB

* Still awaiting feedback regarding Equivalent Profile/Precision (tie goes to the runner?):
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=106274

Warning!
These are super-close to 28 dB, and we still don't know if a tie goes to the runner...can't hurt to put another point into Dampening just to be safe.

Observation:
It likely makes more long-term sense to skill further into Scout Suits than to max out Profile Dampening.

- Shotty

My demo fit logi only has one basic damp and he blocks about 25% of scans. My basic scanner gets plenty of errors as well.

I do say though there is room for a nerf but CCP is playing watch and see and gather numbers mode right now about the scanners. I'll poke CCP Wolfman see what he thinks of it. I am very damn sure that the scanner assists are going to skyrocket the market sales of scanners. They're probably closely reaching nanohive sales now.

On paper it seems like it will work fine, scanners only get points of someone or something is killed.

I just have a feeling it will be exploited...somehow.

^I guess the most simple solution(if it is exploitable) is to give scans a cool down timer like repair tools.

5% reduction of scan profile per level don't cut it anymore

Now that everyone is running an adv or pro scanner I can't hide from no one

Soooo you are saying the only way to counter it is to put only dampers in my low slot( No I using them for some else

The only suit capable of counter perfectly is the gallente scout and gallente meduim frame, but they will have fill 3 to all of their low slots with dampers

Making the scanner scout only EQ would be fine with me. I don't have really strong feelings either way.... as a scout I wouldn't use it as it gives away the fact that I am closing in on unsuspecting prey (if they notice the 'you've been scanned' or 'scan prevented' message).

However, giving scouts a more buff profile dampening bonus. 10% per level, would be pretty fantastic. Or, drop their starting profile to a lower value. Definitely.

5% reduction of scan profile per level don't cut it anymore

Now that everyone is running an adv or pro scanner I can't hide from no one

Soooo you are saying the only way to counter it is to put only dampers in my low slot( No I using them for some else

The only suit capable of counter perfectly is the gallente scout and gallente meduim frame, but they will have fill 3 to all of their low slots with dampers

The scout bonus is more valuable than ever. You're more likely to avoid detection than in any other build.
Don't whine that you're using your lows "for something else". That's the whole point of game's RPG elements. You have to choose.

Scouts are pretty low in the slot department.

Sure, it's a choice, but you generally need "something else" in order to be effective and it will need to be fit somewhere too.

[My logi evades about a quarter of all scans with just the passive buff.

Do you run anything other than logi?

There's no point even having the higher tier scanners if scouts don't even need to try and evade them.

Right, so investing nearly 3 million SP into passive skills doesn't count as trying, then?

So... You're mad that someone is using an extremely valuable equipment slot (forgoing uplinks and nanohives) to counter you, but you don't want to have to use slots to counter scanners?

If you don't like being scanned, there's a module for that. Otherwise, accept that you are giving yourself a weakness in exchange for buffing another area.

My demo fit logi only has one basic damp and he blocks about 25% of scans. My basic scanner gets plenty of errors as well.

I do say though there is room for a nerf but CCP is playing watch and see and gather numbers mode right now about the scanners. I'll poke CCP Wolfman see what he thinks of it. I am very damn sure that the scanner assists are going to skyrocket the market sales of scanners. They're probably closely reaching nanohive sales now.

But that is for the Meta 9 scanner which is no where as useful as the others and is far less common. The rest can be beat with lvl 5 scout + lvl 3 dampening + a STD dampener. Seems like a fair trade to me.

Honestly, I see no problem with there being a scanner that is ridiculously difficult or impossible to beat so long as it doesn't perform as well as the others of its tier.

No, it doesn't.

^I guess the most simple solution(if it is exploitable) is to give scans a cool down timer like repair tools.

Why not?

Because you arbitrarily decided it doesn't since that doesn't rhyme with your viewpoint, or do you actually have a thought-out reasoning that brought you to that conclusion?

To paraphrase your statement: There's no point in even having the dampening skills if people using scanners don't even need to try to make it damned hard to avoid their scans.

Scout are suppose to infiltrate and flank, we can't do that if we are constantly seen

Well the minmatar scout

Evidently, however, you think this should be the case with profile dampening.

Because when we skill up a weapon, we still have to use the top weapon to get the most out of it. The Duvolle isn't rendered obsolete once people get proficiency 5.

And just how much SP do you need to invest in a Proto Scanner to completely negate SP investment into a Proto Scout, with Dampening 5?

I didn't realize scouts dropped dead when they get scanned with a proto scanner. I guess I should use the proto more often then.

A proto scout with profile dampening to Lvl 5 doesn't need any modules to dodge advanced scanners (by far the most common) and only one basic dampener to dodge the 28 dB proto scanners.

Do you really think it's absolutely necessary for a proto scout to be able to dodge the Duvolle Focused scanner (15dB)? Consider it's limitations: 5 second scan time, 5 second illumination time, so you're at most illuminated for 10 seconds. The shortest time between consecutive scans with this particular scanner is 33 seconds. Therefore assuming you are being constantly scanned by someone with this scanner, you are still off their radar for at minimum 70% of game time.

How likely is it that multiple people in the same squad, and moreover, multiple squads on the same team, will be running this proto scanner, which is not only ISK expensive, but also has one of the highest PG usages of any item in the game?

You're blowing things out of proportion. Scouts still do fine given current scan tendencies. In my experience 95% of the scanning folk out there use advanced. On only very few occasions have I had to use two dampeners to dodge the 28dB scanners (I'm a logi), and I believe only once has anyone used the Duvolle Focused to defeat even that suit.

If you think it's absolutely necessary to dodge one of the most seldom used scanners in the game, then yes, you need to sacrifice three lows to do it.

Of course it's not necessary. Nothing is necessary. However, it's preposterous that the top scanner is that cheap compared to it's counter. The counter takes 3 times as much SP, and three times the slots, on an already slot- and CPU-starved suit.

BTW, the Minmatar scout, which is supposed to be a sneaky assassin, infiltrating enemy territory and killing up close, can't counter the 15dB scanner, no matter how hard it tries.

"Seems like a fair trade to me". Yeah, 'cause level 3 light frame + level 5 scout suit + level 3 dampening takes a measily 2966160 SP to skill into, whereas the proto active scanner takes a whopping 932760 SP.

Totally fair...

[/sarcasm]

No, I haven't stated my opinion yet, so you're making false assumptions. Here's what I think:

• A light suit should beat the standard scanner, regardless of skills
• A level 3 scout suit skill + a few levels into profile dampening should beat advanced scanners
• A level 5 scout suit skill + maxed out profile dampening should beat all but the proto 15 (16?) dB scanner
• A level 5 scout suit skill + maxed out profile dampening + a basic profile dampener module should beat all active scanners

Ie: a slight lowering of the scout suit's scan profile would suffice.



Sorry, but that doesn't make sense to me. Proficiency isn't a counter to anything, it's a passive amplification skill. It can't render the weapon it applies to obsolete.

Anyway: Am I to understand you're against any passive skill that renders something else less effective?

Also, you're actually arguing my point, logic-wise. If a proto Gallente scout has to max out dampening skills and use 3 of his 4 low slots to equip complex profile dampeners to counter the best scanner, that scout is practically rendered obsolete by that scanner. There are too few slots left to make an effective enough fitting to justify the cost of a proto suit. Absence from enemy radar is the one clear advantage scouts have over other suits at the moment. Medium suits do everything else better (the speed difference is negligible).

Are you a scout? Do you have dampeners to Lvl 5? How many times have you been scanned with the Duvolle Focused scanner? How many deaths can you lay at the feet of this particular scanner - deaths that were directly the result of being scanned first by this scanner? Your argument is academic at best if it's not based on actual experiences, and from my actual experience, nearly no one uses the 15dB scanner. You know why? Because having intel that is 95% accurate for 100% of the match (quantum scanners) is far better than having intel that is 99% accurate for 30% of the match. When WP are awarded for scanners, this will ring even more true - more paint time = more WP.

As to your point about the skill requirements for scanners and scout suits/dampening, get real. I run a shield tanking suit, and I've put a lot of SP into it. That doesn't mean some noob with a flux grenade and a militia AR can't kill me if he gets the jump on me. Likewise pretty much any suit, no matter how beefed up, will die to a basic RE or to a militia forge gun. By your logic, only players who have put equitable SP into their suits should be able to defeat my suit. That's obviously not the case with anything in Dust.

And oh, scouts don't drop dead when they're scanned by a proto scanner? Then it's a bit dramatic to say that all your SP investment in your suit is negated by the proto scanner then, isn't it? You can still shoot your gun and run around and flank, right? Or do all those scouty things go away when you get scanned?

The scanner that everyone is QQing about uses 18 PG, more than most Prototype Weapons. To equip one you have to sacrifice a lot. It's a fair trade.

You object to me drawing a conclusion about your position, and then express that exact position.

And what other analogy would you have me use? Hacking? Should the definitive hacking suit not require stacked hacking mods because they've already spent the SP?

My argument is that SP is not a placeholder for effort. I think 2 complex dampeners on a scout should be sufficient to dodge all scanners, and 1 should take you past most Protos.
A dampened scout is not rendered obsolete. Unless of course you cannot think of anything to do with a strategic advantage that doesn't involve other modules.

My argument is that SP is not a placeholder for effort

And my argument is that earning SP for months is just as much - more, actually - effort as using an equipment slot for a scanner. I really can't understand that you consider this effortless. In fact, I can't think of anything that requires more effort in Dust than grinding SP.