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Mejt0
D3LTA ACADEMY
Inver Brass
16
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Posted - 2013.09.10 14:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ik that its a versable suit. This is not qq. Just asking. Most of logis plays as assaults. Its stupid that logi assault is better than real assault. Noone can tell that it does not :). |
Lorhak Gannarsein
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
308
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Posted - 2013.09.10 14:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
It does not. If your assault is being beaten by a logi, it's cos the logi was better at DUST than you. Or at least had more SP invested in the fitting or whatever.
A logi is slower, with lower EHP (unless you supertank) and only one weapon (though with hit detection fixed, that's less of an issue.)
Use your advantages. Outflank him and he won't have a chance. And since you've got the speed... |
Mehrunes-Dagon
WarRavens
League of Infamy
10
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Posted - 2013.09.10 14:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mejt0 wrote:Ik that its a versable suit. This is not qq. Just asking. Most of logis plays as assaults. Its stupid that logi assault is better than real assault. Noone can tell that it does not :).
I am a logistics and I easily go 10+ kills no deaths, but all I do is camp an objective and make sure the enemy doesn't take it, you would not believe how many players just solo rush objectives to get either mowed down by me or trip my remote explosive. This isnt even assault play, this is just a simple tactical defense play, yet I get hatemail saying play like a Logi noob bla bla bla. |
Hey Fatty
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
55
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Posted - 2013.09.10 14:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:It does not. If your assault is being beaten by a logi, it's cos the logi was better at DUST than you. Or at least had more SP invested in the fitting or whatever.
A logi is slower, with lower EHP (unless you supertank) and only one weapon (though with hit detection fixed, that's less of an issue.)
Use your advantages. Outflank him and he won't have a chance. And since you've got the speed...
This is truth.
Source. Im an aggressive logi that knows when to break out the Scooby Doo bandaids |
Mejt0
D3LTA ACADEMY
Inver Brass
16
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 14:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
1. Speed does not give such adventave in cover fire.
2. Tell me one assault have more that -Caoradri logi 400shield400armor -gall logi 650armor basic shield and dmg mods (that gives 50dmg from ar duvolle)
Ps. assault logi will always have more hp than assault due to 5-3 slots. |
Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
977
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Posted - 2013.09.10 14:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Logis have no stamina at all compared to assaults, and less base tank. Positioning is everything. Sprint to your ideal position for the weapon you're using and own face. Or run straight at the logis and cry about how you died. |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
258
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Posted - 2013.09.10 14:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Stacking boxes and scheduling deliveries sounds like an awful way to play an FPS to me. -1 for real logistics. |
Mejt0
D3LTA ACADEMY
Inver Brass
16
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 14:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:Logis have no stamina at all compared to assaults, and less base tank. Positioning is everything. Sprint to your ideal position for the weapon you're using and own face. Or run straight at the logis and cry about how you died.
next one :d. Positiong .. i can shoot and regen from cover, (btw thers alway scanner,they see me) but he can also repair zo fast :d. What can do my gek ,soon duvolle too but 38dmg vs50dmg is loose. Can flank them but they turn fast around, round bullets in my head and im dead :/. Stamina? whats it for in pvp cover fire? you dont run sprinting in open arena when smth shooting you |
RKKR
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
354
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Posted - 2013.09.10 15:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
I wonder why threads containing critics for CCP get locked for being "duplicated" in an eyeblink while all these logi-debates thread keep popping up while the last one was made a few days ago.
Stop comparing the suits if you haven't skilled up both suits and if you have, then stop complaining. You'll notice hat assault are better than logis if you play correctly.
I have no idea why you are "just asking" when you make a statement and end it with a " Noone can tell that it does not :)."-mentality.
Now stop trolling and learn to play. |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
181
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Posted - 2013.09.10 15:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
You need to learn how to flank and get close. A logi's huge buffer or regen will do them no good if you get the drop on them and drop them to 50% health before they even know what hit them. For this, an assault's speed and stamina give a definite advantage.
If you try to straight up fight a player who does the same DPS as you and has higher HP, chances are you'll lose.
I play as a logi because of the equipment I can carry - remote explosives, nanohives, active scanner. If I had someone else in my squad who would supply me with nanohives and constantly scan, then I'd prefer to run assault with just the REs. |
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
1204
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 15:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Mejt0 wrote:Stamina? whats it for in pvp cover fire? you dont run sprinting in open arena when smth shooting you
Stamina is critical for quietly positioning yourself on the battleground. If I really want to be across the field in a hurry I'll call in an LAV. If I want to start moving on to the next objective and I don't want the enemy to know that I'm there and where my uplinks are then I'll head out on foot. I have biotic upgrades to 5 and enhanced stamina mods in order to get my fat logistics suit to where I want to be. A scout has double the stamina but brings less to the fight.
As far as assault versus logistics: you agree that logistics are more versatile but the assault should be bring more firepower to the fight. Also, the sidearm alone is enough to win an engagement in many cases and certainly provides for more options. A logistic soldier needs to pick an all around versatile weapon. An AR is optimal but an SMG can work well if you know you are spawning into tight quarters. An assault could use a Tactical AR or Laser Rifle for longer range and an SMG for up close work.
Also, is it so hard to type 'something' as opposed to 'smth'? |
Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
978
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Posted - 2013.09.10 15:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Part of the problem here is that average dps has jumped through the roof, so that there is very little difference between 500 hp and 1000 hp once someone is shooting at you. Right now the instant you take a hit of any kind you have at most two seconds to get into cover, or you're dead meat. He who hits first hits last. Try to turn around and kill the guy who just hit you is a losing move. So yeah, if you get shot at you sprint for cover. Most of my deaths as a logi have been because I didn't have quite enough stamina to get back into cover.
Sprint from cover to cover. If you're in the open and you're not sprinting, you're doing it wrong. |
broonfondle majikthies
P.O.N.A.G.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
243
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Posted - 2013.09.10 15:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
I run a SMG on my logi specifically to stop getting hate mail. I got to admit I really like its ammo capacity - I don't end up needing nanohives that my team needs more.
I leave the ranged combat for the other corp mates but I can seriously tear up enemies that assault our position. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers
EoN.
2072
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Posted - 2013.09.10 15:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
Logis are not better than assaults. EHP is not everything, if it was there would be tears and screams over the forums abut how OP the heavy is... Dnt see that very often though do we..?
It is true though that some logis are better at assaulting than some assault players... There is a level of personal skill involved in this game too. |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
472
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Posted - 2013.09.10 15:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
a logi should be a logi. It should not be able to stack eHP. This is part why the game feels so unbalanced. I see caldari medium suits run with 900 eHP like nothing. |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
1204
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 15:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:a logi should be a logi. It should not be able to stack eHP. This is part why the game feels so unbalanced. I see caldari medium suits run with 900 eHP like nothing.
How is a logistics supposed to provide support if they have a paper thin tank? They should have the second strongest tank of the four current classes. In return they have less mobility than assault. Yes, the Caldari Logistics can be 'abused' to make a heavy assault. So? It's been dialed back some and will die to Assault. Any form of min/max will be good in the right situations but has other drawbacks.
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RydogV
Shadow Company HQ
306
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Posted - 2013.09.10 16:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
Here we go again. Mandatory equipment use for valid suits for the win. Continues to be best possible solution to end the Logi QQ and initiate the so called 'Assault Logi' extinction.
Logi suit has two Equipment Slots, you have to fill at least one.
Logi suit has three Equipment Slots, you have to fill at least two.
Logi suit has four Equipment Slots, you have to fill at least three.
If you don't fill the required slots then your suit is invalid. This promotes a support role with the suit, without taking away the other module slots needed to offset lower defensive capability and of course add more support functionality like better hacking and such. What it does do is require players in Logistics suits to eat up a nice chunk of CPU/PG because most equipment is designed to do just that.
'True Logis' should have no issue with this. 'Assault Logis' will hate it. Which one are you? |
Zero Notion
Red Star Jr.
EoN.
211
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Posted - 2013.09.10 16:48:00 -
[18] - Quote
Suits are meant to be guidelines, not set in stone.
If a heavy decided to use profile dampening and kinetics instead of armor, would you complain about the heavy not being a heavy?
What do you want from a Logi? Heals? Nanites? Anyone can train them. Anyone. If someone skilled into a Logistics suit is meant to only be a Logistics character, let's take it the next step and create a skill system where each dropsuit model is allotted a specific set of skills pertaining only to their 'class'.
Herpaderpa.
I play an aggressive logistics but I carry an active scanner, uplinks and maybe a nanohive. Sometimes REs. Sometimes a rep tool.
Sometimes, I don't want to carry equipment but I find myself suffering from a lack of WPs because my base stats are not wholly designed to be an assault character? Can I be? Sure, but it takes a specific play style within the parameters of my suit's inherent limitations.
Anyone can be anything they want, within their chosen suits limits. |
Booby Tuesdays
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
333
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Posted - 2013.09.10 16:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
RydogV wrote:Here we go again. Mandatory equipment use for valid suits for the win. Continues to be best possible solution to end the Logi QQ and initiate the so called 'Assault Logi' extinction.
Logi suit has two Equipment Slots, you have to fill at least one.
Logi suit has three Equipment Slots, you have to fill at least two.
Logi suit has four Equipment Slots, you have to fill at least three.
If you don't fill the required slots then your suit is invalid. This promotes a support role with the suit, without taking away the other module slots needed to offset lower defensive capability and of course add more support functionality like better hacking and such. What it does do is require players in Logistics suits to eat up a nice chunk of CPU/PG because most equipment is designed to do just that.
'True Logis' should have no issue with this. 'Assault Logis' will hate it. Which one are you?
I can't like this post enough. The easiest solution is often the best solution. I played against a guy, "usuckatdust" or something, rocking a Cal Logi Duvolle combo with over 1200 eHP. Melting fools left and right. A Logi should not be faster and stronger than a Heavy, let alone be able to out DPS them as well... |
Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
978
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 17:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
To be fair, everyone with an assault rifle right now can out DPS a heavy. |
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Zero Notion
Red Star Jr.
EoN.
211
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Posted - 2013.09.10 17:09:00 -
[21] - Quote
Booby Tuesdays wrote:RydogV wrote:Here we go again. Mandatory equipment use for valid suits for the win. Continues to be best possible solution to end the Logi QQ and initiate the so called 'Assault Logi' extinction.
Logi suit has two Equipment Slots, you have to fill at least one.
Logi suit has three Equipment Slots, you have to fill at least two.
Logi suit has four Equipment Slots, you have to fill at least three.
If you don't fill the required slots then your suit is invalid. This promotes a support role with the suit, without taking away the other module slots needed to offset lower defensive capability and of course add more support functionality like better hacking and such. What it does do is require players in Logistics suits to eat up a nice chunk of CPU/PG because most equipment is designed to do just that.
'True Logis' should have no issue with this. 'Assault Logis' will hate it. Which one are you? I can't like this post enough. The easiest solution is often the best solution. I played against a guy, "usuckatdust" or something, rocking a Cal Logi Duvolle combo with over 1200 eHP. Melting fools left and right. A Logi should not be faster and stronger than a Heavy, let alone be able to out DPS them as well...
SP makes a huge difference. He could have had quite a bit of SP, experience and good gunplay. It doesn't mean he was a bad "logistics".
This is a terrible idea. It would only be balanced and fair, then, if other dropsuits were required to only ever to equip very specific 'defining' modules, weapons and or equipment. No kinetics for heavies or assaults. Scouts can only ever wear ferroscale plating. Caldari can only ever use shields and never armor. Etc, etc. Slippery slope.
If anything, if you want to encourage Logistics play, then you give them a bonus for equipping the items. Bonus to repair tool rate. Bonus to passive scanning. Enhanced bonus to armor repair rate. Bonus to the weapon they're carrying (like a reload bonus). They're technical specialists, not just a healer role. Either way; a logistics doesn't even have to USE the equipment slots if they have them. Even then, I don't think 'bonuses' are necessary. As I said before, they're suggestive templates (dropsuits).
Is an Assault class who uses a droplink or nanite suddenly not playing their role properly? People play Logistics because they're versatile but they do have poorer base statistics than an assault class. |
RydogV
Shadow Company HQ
308
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 17:15:00 -
[22] - Quote
Zero Notion wrote:Suits are meant to be guidelines, not set in stone.
If a heavy decided to use profile dampening and kinetics instead of armor, would you complain about the heavy not being a heavy?
What do you want from a Logi? Heals? Nanites? Anyone can train them. Anyone. If someone who is skilled into a Logistics suit is meant to only be a Logistics/Support character, let's take it the next step and create a skill system where each dropsuit model is allotted a specific set of skills pertaining only to their 'class'.
Herpaderpa. Obviously absurd.
I play an aggressive logistics but I carry an active scanner, uplinks and maybe a nanohive. Sometimes REs. Sometimes a rep tool.
Sometimes, I don't want to carry equipment but I find myself suffering from a lack of WPs because my base stats are not wholly designed to be an assault character? Can I be? Sure, but it takes a specific play style within the parameters of my suit's inherent limitations.
Anyone can be anything they want, within their chosen suits limits.
This is the common argument against required equipment. CCP's promise that you can 'be whatever you want to be'. That promise should remain but it should not mean you can be whatever you want to be all in one suit. There is enough flexibility in this game, but there is too much flexibility in most Logistics Dropsuits. I have been dedicated Logistics since closed beta.
Despite the promise, every suit should have certain limitations. For the Logistics suit that limitation should be use of Equipment Slots. Such a requirement does not limit your role on the battlefield it just requires you to balance all the dropsuits available assets.
You can still be a Sniper, you just have to carry some Nanohives and Drop Uplinks. You can still be 'Aggressive', you just have to carry an Active Scanner and Remote Explosives. The list goes on and on. The suit is called Logistics, an it makes no sense to use it if you are not serving any Logistical purpose...period. I mean that is why none of the Medium Frame Basic suits have any Logistics characteristics.
Honestly there was less of an issue with Logistics 'abuse' when we had Scout and Assault Dropsuit variants with two equipment slots. I wish CCP would just bring those back into the game and make equipment optional with them.
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pdiddy anfama
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
52
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Posted - 2013.09.10 17:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
Mejt0 wrote:Ik that its a versable suit. This is not qq. Just asking. Most of logis plays as assaults. Its stupid that logi assault is better than real assault. Noone can tell that it does not :).
Hell nah! |
Zero Notion
Red Star Jr.
EoN.
211
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Posted - 2013.09.10 17:25:00 -
[24] - Quote
How can a Logistics have 'everything'? By everything, do you mean Armor and Shields? With enough SP, you can have close to whatever you want on nearly suit. If you have a 20 million SP Assault player and a 20 million SP logistics player who both have trained max shield, armor, electronics, engineering and both of them suited only complex armor modules, shield modules and their weapon - the Assault is going to have more shield and more health.
You can be anything you want. The limits are within the suit and the amount of SP the player has. Even if I don't carry equipment, I don't have more health/shield than an assault (and certainly not a heavy) of equivalent points. If I beat them, they're either a poor player or I just outgunned them in the context of the combat situation. My 'advantage' is not nearly as clear cut and defined as 'omg Logistics are so OP."
The point of any dropsuit and the skill systems IS to allow us to create multiple Dropsuit types that allow us to adapt to a fluctuating battle in real time. We all have the same advantages with the ability to skill into the same skills, our suits inherent bonuses and stats are what bring the balance about. |
Halfwings Warbringer
ThislsWhyimhot
37
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Posted - 2013.09.10 17:52:00 -
[25] - Quote
Mejt0 wrote:Ik that its a versable suit. This is not qq. Just asking. Most of logis plays as assaults. Its stupid that logi assault is better than real assault. Noone can tell that it does not :).
I play as logic and assault sametime ,with armor tank and max out core skill I can go 980ish 1 proto rep nano hive (40), an active scanner ,RE and adv rep tool with an adv ascr |
Mejt0
D3LTA ACADEMY
Inver Brass
21
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Posted - 2013.09.10 18:23:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ok thread to close. Thanks for all replies. Now im gonna try to get them in smarter ways :). .. last question. I think that i could go wrong with caldari assault and AR... hmm dunno i like shield but im some worster in dpz than armours. Then. Should i go proto and max AR tree, or maybe go for laser ,tactical rifle? (or sacrifise 1 high slot for comp dmg) |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
1204
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 18:50:00 -
[27] - Quote
RydogV wrote:...
This is the common argument against required equipment. CCP's promise that you can 'be whatever you want to be'. That promise should remain but it should not mean you can be whatever you want to be all in one suit. There is enough flexibility in this game, but there is too much flexibility in most Logistics Dropsuits. I have been dedicated Logistics since closed beta.
Despite the promise, every suit should have certain limitations. For the Logistics suit that limitation should be use of Equipment Slots. Such a requirement does not limit your role on the battlefield it just requires you to balance all the dropsuits available assets.
...
Don't enforce roles through limitations. Encourage them through bonuses. Allow for player creativity. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
5101
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Posted - 2013.09.10 18:56:00 -
[28] - Quote
Yup, totally going to spec into Caldari assault and an AR. Seems to be the only way to be safe from the nerf bat. |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
457
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Posted - 2013.09.10 19:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
Booby Tuesdays wrote:RydogV wrote:Here we go again. Mandatory equipment use for valid suits for the win. Continues to be best possible solution to end the Logi QQ and initiate the so called 'Assault Logi' extinction.
Logi suit has two Equipment Slots, you have to fill at least one.
Logi suit has three Equipment Slots, you have to fill at least two.
Logi suit has four Equipment Slots, you have to fill at least three.
If you don't fill the required slots then your suit is invalid. This promotes a support role with the suit, without taking away the other module slots needed to offset lower defensive capability and of course add more support functionality like better hacking and such. What it does do is require players in Logistics suits to eat up a nice chunk of CPU/PG because most equipment is designed to do just that.
'True Logis' should have no issue with this. 'Assault Logis' will hate it. Which one are you? I can't like this post enough. The easiest solution is often the best solution. I played against a guy, "usuckatdust" or something, rocking a Cal Logi Duvolle combo with over 1200 eHP. Melting fools left and right. A Logi should not be faster and stronger than a Heavy, let alone be able to out DPS them as well...
I'm an "Assault Logi" ... though it's actually called a 'Combat Logistics' and it's a trait of a specific suit. As such it gets the brightest yellow and most coverage of yellow of all the logistics suits - Go Figure  |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
181
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 19:37:00 -
[30] - Quote
I would be fine with making logi suits identical in stats/fitting/bonuses to their assault counterparts, except lacking a sidearm and having multiple equipment slots and a huge reduction to CPU/PG for fitting equipment - the goal being to make the logi's CPU/PG usage for multiple pieces equipment equivalent to the assault's one equipment slot.
Alternatively, if assaults need a "buff" to make them more assault-like, why don't we allow them to carry two sets of grenades? Perhaps an option to sacrifice their sidearm for another grenade slot? |
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Toby Flenderson
research lab
The Superpowers
16
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Posted - 2013.09.10 19:42:00 -
[31] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:To be fair, everyone with an assault rifle right now can out DPS a heavy.
Probably why I see more heavies with ARs now. I feel embarrassed for those that I take down with a SMG because they can't move as quick as my Minmatar assault suit. The clip bonus doesn't help them out much either. Toxin SMG > Heavies.
EDIT: Sorry, I just realized this just sounded like bragging for the sake of bragging. My point is that there seems to be a trend with the Heavy/AR combo and I think most that are jumping onto this wagon are under the impression that this game is all about HP now. If anything these are easier targets to take out than a quicker target with half the HP. This is the root of my embarrassment for them. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
5103
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 19:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:I would be fine with making logi suits identical in stats/fitting/bonuses to their assault counterparts, except lacking a sidearm and having multiple equipment slots and a huge reduction to CPU/PG for fitting equipment - the goal being to make the logi's CPU/PG usage for multiple pieces equipment equivalent to the assault's one equipment slot.
Alternatively, if assaults need a "buff" to make them more assault-like, why don't we allow them to carry two sets of grenades? Perhaps an option to sacrifice their sidearm for another grenade slot?
This isn't about logis being OP. Its about a bunch or players to pig headed enough to admit they might have died to someone better than them, but want to nerf the suit instead of working on improving. |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star.
EoN.
1102
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 20:09:00 -
[33] - Quote
RydogV wrote:Here we go again. Mandatory equipment use for valid suits for the win. Continues to be best possible solution to end the Logi QQ and initiate the so called 'Assault Logi' extinction.
Logi suit has two Equipment Slots, you have to fill at least one.
Logi suit has three Equipment Slots, you have to fill at least two.
Logi suit has four Equipment Slots, you have to fill at least three.
If you don't fill the required slots then your suit is invalid. This promotes a support role with the suit, without taking away the other module slots needed to offset lower defensive capability and of course add more support functionality like better hacking and such. What it does do is require players in Logistics suits to eat up a nice chunk of CPU/PG because most equipment is designed to do just that.
'True Logis' should have no issue with this. 'Assault Logis' will hate it. Which one are you?
You know what? FINE. Then SWARMS can only be wielded by logi suits because AV is NOT an "Assault" function.
How's it feel to be told how to ******* play?
People who ***** about logis slaughtering them don't take into account the amount of SP and/or player skill said logi has... the Cal Logi nerf ****** the class (CPU, stamina, WORTHLESS racial bonus) and it's only barely recovered with the armor buff. A ton of experienced players specced into Cal Logi MONTHS ago before the class got nerfed and did not get a respec (not asking for one) so guess what these players still run... these GOOD players are still running CAL LOGI. Get over it.
They're getting rid of mandatory small turrets on tanks .. why would they make equipment slots mandatory?
People who ***** about logis playing as assault have never played both at equal tiers and don't understand the tactical advantages an assault has. Me with a proto assault suit is a much better killer than me with a proto logi-assault. |
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