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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2693
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 22:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, last week I started asking all of my facebook friends if I should cut my hair (I have hair down to the middle of my back). I was planning on getting a mohawk but keeping the length because I like extreme hairstyles and I figured since I didn't like cleaning and maintaining it because of the difficulties, I'd see what my friends thought. They all said not to do it.
Welp, I find it interesting that yesterday I posted up on facebook that I was going to go ahead and do it anyway because they weren't the ones who had to deal with it all the time - all of a sudden everyone thought it was a good idea and told me to go for it.
Moral of the story? People are indecisive. I've been playing since beta started and I've seen a multitude of stupid changes occur because of the people on the forums - rather, YOU. Here's some examples.
Tactical Assault Rifle - Too OP, according to people on forums. - Nerfed to hell, never used again, people complain about it being under powered. - Scopes on all Rifles replaced with terrible iron sights. - Made a return in Uprising, stats buffed, given a scope, people complained because it was too OP. - Nerfed again (after three weeks no less) because people complained.
Grenades (non-contact) - Worked just fine. Someone said they should change them in IRC, CCP did it. - Changed so that they fuse starts after it hits the ground and on a two second fuse. People complain. - Nerfed the timer on the fuse, but retained it's "no timer until it hits the ground" BS.
Grenades (contact) - Pay-to-win option only on first conception. - Splash range reduced. Wasn't good enough. - Removed from market completely. - Made a comeback, was still a pay-to-win option but CCP played it off that the Prototype was an ISK option despite it having a smaller splash radius. - Homogenized so that they all did the same range/damage and you can only carry one, but retained prices, making the advanced variant useless. - Advanced option removed from the market. - Some semblance of balance finally achieved.
Laser Rifles - Skills at the time were absolutely broken and neither of them had any effect on the gun. Still believed to be OP because of damage mods. - Nerfed (to hell) via skill application changes, removal of zoom effect, change to iron sights, very slow aim speed and damage build. - Buffed by adding a red-dot scope, slight zoom effect and faster aim speed.
So now we're looking at Aim Assist. Which is hilarious to me.
All anyone did was *****, complain and moan that they couldn't aim, the aiming system was too slippery, it was too hard to use and how it wasn't like other games, blah blah blah blah.
Now that it's "fixed" everyone is complaining that they aim too well and how it's like an aim bot.
Am I the only one who thinks this absolutely INSANE? You got EXACTLY what you wanted! The aiming system is barely any different than Call of Duty and you can butterfly aim much in the same way - so why is it such an issue now? I mean, for real people MAKE UP YOUR MINDS on what you want and stop having CCP change things unnecessarily when they could be working on something else! I'm sure CCP Wolfman hates all of you just from having to go back and change all of the weapons all the time because of forum bitching.
Just. Stop. Make up your minds, come to a conclusion on what the game actually needs and stick with it - don't turn around on your decisions because you're suddenly getting killed a lot - it's a shooter, you're supposed to die. |
DootDoot
Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 22:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:So, last week I started asking all of my facebook friends if I should cut my hair (I have hair down to the middle of my back). I was planning on getting a mohawk but keeping the length because I like extreme hairstyles and I figured since I didn't like cleaning and maintaining it because of the difficulties, I'd see what my friends thought. They all said not to do it.
Welp, I find it interesting that yesterday I posted up on facebook that I was going to go ahead and do it anyway because they weren't the ones who had to deal with it all the time - all of a sudden everyone thought it was a good idea and told me to go for it.
Moral of the story? People are indecisive. I've been playing since beta started and I've seen a multitude of stupid changes occur because of the people on the forums - rather, YOU. Here's some examples.
Tactical Assault Rifle - Too OP, according to people on forums. - Nerfed to hell, never used again, people complain about it being under powered. - Scopes on all Rifles replaced with terrible iron sights. - Made a return in Uprising, stats buffed, given a scope, people complained because it was too OP. - Nerfed again (after three weeks no less) because people complained.
Grenades (non-contact) - Worked just fine. Someone said they should change them in IRC, CCP did it. - Changed so that they fuse starts after it hits the ground and on a two second fuse. People complain. - Nerfed the timer on the fuse, but retained it's "no timer until it hits the ground" BS.
Grenades (contact) - Pay-to-win option only on first conception. - Splash range reduced. Wasn't good enough. - Removed from market completely. - Made a comeback, was still a pay-to-win option but CCP played it off that the Prototype was an ISK option despite it having a smaller splash radius. - Homogenized so that they all did the same range/damage and you can only carry one, but retained prices, making the advanced variant useless. - Advanced option removed from the market. - Some semblance of balance finally achieved.
Laser Rifles - Skills at the time were absolutely broken and neither of them had any effect on the gun. Still believed to be OP because of damage mods. - Nerfed (to hell) via skill application changes, removal of zoom effect, change to iron sights, very slow aim speed and damage build. - Buffed by adding a red-dot scope, slight zoom effect and faster aim speed.
So now we're looking at Aim Assist. Which is hilarious to me.
All anyone did was *****, complain and moan that they couldn't aim, the aiming system was too slippery, it was too hard to use and how it wasn't like other games, blah blah blah blah.
Now that it's "fixed" everyone is complaining that they aim too well and how it's like an aim bot.
Am I the only one who thinks this absolutely INSANE? You got EXACTLY what you wanted! The aiming system is barely any different than Call of Duty and you can butterfly aim much in the same way - so why is it such an issue now? I mean, for real people MAKE UP YOUR MINDS on what you want and stop having CCP change things unnecessarily when they could be working on something else! I'm sure CCP Wolfman hates all of you just from having to go back and change all of the weapons all the time because of forum bitching.
Just. Stop. Make up your minds, come to a conclusion on what the game actually needs and stick with it - don't turn around on your decisions because you're suddenly getting killed a lot - it's a shooter, you're supposed to die.
Only noobs complained they couldn't aim the system was workable... the hit registry when you did aim right however....
The problem isn't aim assist... that concept is noble and should be implemented... CCP has built a "aim for you" aim assist and this is a massive problem because that isn't an aim assist... anything that aim's for you is a massive problem in a FPS..... This means the aim assist they built is fundamentally wrong and broken yet again... CCP screwed up again and wasted man hours again, and is gonna leave aim assist being a joke the FPS comunity snickers about or turn it off again until they can re do it again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMqe6MhXY6Y Make sure you goto 1.30 and really watch it through. |
Iskandar Zul Karnain
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1655
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 22:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
People are stupid? Yep. Dust forums have a disproportionately high number of stupid people? Could be. Does that mean changes reflect request? Not really.
We need a middle ground. Just because CCP tries to accomdates us doesnt mean weve reached that perfect spot every time a change is made.
Aim assist seems a little strong. Console shooters need AA but only to the point its assisting and not doing the bulk of the work.
I think it could use a slight nerf but I'm happy to wait it out and let CCP gather data and spend sleepless nights scratching their heads about it. It'll get fixed.
|
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2695
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 22:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
DootDoot wrote:Only noobs complained they couldn't aim the system was workable... the hit registry when you did aim right however.... The problem isn't aim assist... that concept is noble and should be implemented... CCP has built a "aim for you" aim assist and this is a massive problem because that isn't an aim assist... anything that aim's for you is a massive problem in a FPS..... This means the aim assist they built is fundamentally wrong and broken yet again... CCP screwed up again and wasted man hours again, and is gonna leave aim assist being a joke the FPS comunity snickers about or turn it off again until they can re do it again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMqe6MhXY6Y Make sure you goto 1.30 and really watch it through.
This isn't much different from other FPS games, most notably Halo - mind you. Console needs this, honestly, and it's not so much the Aim Bot people are making it out to be. Also, if you notice (when he does turn aim assist on) it's not putting the cross hair on the target, which would light it up as red, it's retaining it's blue color meaning that he would still miss (save for hit box lag which can't be avoided). It's also not putting the cross hair directly on the targets head.
I'd also like to mention that this is at a distance of 28 meters, which is well within the optimal range for an Assault Rifle and makes since that Aim Assist would kick in. At which point I'll say that the only acceptable change here is for Aim Assist -NOT- to work unless it's within the weapon's optimal.
Did it make good players better? Yes. Did it make terrible players better? Yes. Even without aim assist, the good players would still wreck ass - it's not going to be any different if it's removed again. |
Keri Starlight
Psygod9
197
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 23:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sir, I would want to like your thread twice, but for some reason I can't... |
Xender17
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
564
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 23:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
Its not them being indecisive if the weapon changes. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2698
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 23:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
Keri Starlight wrote:Sir, I would want to like your thread twice, but for some reason I can't...
Yeah, let's not forget the Swarm Launchers which were originally dumb-fire and all fired six missiles with scaling damage by tier.
Thanks players -_-; |
TEBOW BAGGINS
The Corporate Raiders
964
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 23:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
that's nice and all CCP wanted to help them aim better, that's very thoughtful. but dust has now entered into the cute little fat kid zone of gaming. telling someone you play an "aim assist" game is like telling them you play hello kitty online |
echo47
Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic
60
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 23:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
+1 |
Autoaim Bot514
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
19
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 23:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:So, last week I started asking all of my facebook friends if I should cut my hair (I have hair down to the middle of my back). I was planning on getting a mohawk but keeping the length because I like extreme hairstyles and I figured since I didn't like cleaning and maintaining it because of the difficulties, I'd see what my friends thought. They all said not to do it.
Welp, I find it interesting that yesterday I posted up on facebook that I was going to go ahead and do it anyway because they weren't the ones who had to deal with it all the time - all of a sudden everyone thought it was a good idea and told me to go for it.
Moral of the story? People are indecisive. I've been playing since beta started and I've seen a multitude of stupid changes occur because of the people on the forums - rather, YOU. Here's some examples.
Tactical Assault Rifle - Too OP, according to people on forums. - Nerfed to hell, never used again, people complain about it being under powered. - Scopes on all Rifles replaced with terrible iron sights. - Made a return in Uprising, stats buffed, given a scope, people complained because it was too OP. - Nerfed again (after three weeks no less) because people complained.
Grenades (non-contact) - Worked just fine. Someone said they should change them in IRC, CCP did it. - Changed so that they fuse starts after it hits the ground and on a two second fuse. People complain. - Nerfed the timer on the fuse, but retained it's "no timer until it hits the ground" BS.
Grenades (contact) - Pay-to-win option only on first conception. - Splash range reduced. Wasn't good enough. - Removed from market completely. - Made a comeback, was still a pay-to-win option but CCP played it off that the Prototype was an ISK option despite it having a smaller splash radius. - Homogenized so that they all did the same range/damage and you can only carry one, but retained prices, making the advanced variant useless. - Advanced option removed from the market. - Some semblance of balance finally achieved.
Laser Rifles - Skills at the time were absolutely broken and neither of them had any effect on the gun. Still believed to be OP because of damage mods. - Nerfed (to hell) via skill application changes, removal of zoom effect, change to iron sights, very slow aim speed and damage build. - Buffed by adding a red-dot scope, slight zoom effect and faster aim speed.
So now we're looking at Aim Assist. Which is hilarious to me.
All anyone did was *****, complain and moan that they couldn't aim, the aiming system was too slippery, it was too hard to use and how it wasn't like other games, blah blah blah blah.
Now that it's "fixed" everyone is complaining that they aim too well and how it's like an aim bot.
Am I the only one who thinks this absolutely INSANE? You got EXACTLY what you wanted! The aiming system is barely any different than Call of Duty and you can butterfly aim much in the same way - so why is it such an issue now? I mean, for real people MAKE UP YOUR MINDS on what you want and stop having CCP change things unnecessarily when they could be working on something else! I'm sure CCP Wolfman hates all of you just from having to go back and change all of the weapons all the time because of forum bitching.
Just. Stop. Make up your minds, come to a conclusion on what the game actually needs and stick with it - don't turn around on your decisions because you're suddenly getting killed a lot - it's a shooter, you're supposed to die.
What was asked for was a change in the acceleration curve, not autoaim. |
|
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1714
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 23:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP hited too many things at once
they fixed hit detection, they should of waited on aim assist
Whenthey nerf a weapon they double triple nerf it... why!? |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3825
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 23:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
Aim assist doesn't fix the problem I had - and still have - with DUST's aim mechanics.
DUST uses turning acceleration. I don't like this system, and I want the option to turn it off. Considering the preferences of other players, having a measure of control over the acceleration curve would also be a good idea, and it's not unprecedented in console shooters. It also isn't common, but that doesn't make it a bad idea. Not many console FPS games include full control remapping, but every time that comes up, it's a HUGE positive point for that game (it remains one of the better things about Brink).
The acceleration curve is most noticeable at lower sensitivity settings, and turning all the way up to 100 will disable it, but being required to have my sensitivity well above the level I want is NOT a suitable fix for something I view as a problem.
When Uprising first came out, the acceleration curve was not only a bad idea in my mind to begin with, but it was also poorly implemented. If you were trying to turn slowly by tilting the stick a short distance and holding it steady, you didn't turn at a constant rate. You ACCELERATED at a constant rate, so the longer you kept turning, the faster you would get, even though the stick was remaining steady on a very slight angle.
They changed it so that the acceleration only kicks in when you're tilted about half-way, but it's still too early for many players - myself being one of those (obviously).
It doesn't matter how far they ramp up the auto-aim that I not only never asked for, but intend to keep turned off whenever I'm doing anything other than testing features. No matter what the auto-aim does, it doesn't change how acceleration works, and it doesn't disable acceleration or provide me with an option to do so.
And yes, the aim assist currently in DUST is auto-aim. It's an "active" aim assist that takes control of the player character. What CCP refer to as "aim friction" is also a type of aim assist, but it's a "passive" form that I'm comfortable with, and which exists in almost every console FPS. It can't be turned off, but as long as it remains at the level it's at right now, I don't have any major problem with that. If they decide to ramp up the effect, then I will be demanding a sliding scale that can be used to set the level of aim friction present in the game.
So no, there isn't any indecision or contradiction in what I've said about the aiming in DUST and what I want from it.
For the record, I've never used CoD (in any incarnation) as an example of what I want aiming to feel like in DUST, because I don't enjoy those games enough to have bothered spending much time with anything in the series. |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
268
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 23:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:So, last week I started asking all of my facebook friends if I should cut my hair (I have hair down to the middle of my back). I was planning on getting a mohawk but keeping the length because I like extreme hairstyles and I figured since I didn't like cleaning and maintaining it because of the difficulties, I'd see what my friends thought. They all said not to do it.
Welp, I find it interesting that yesterday I posted up on facebook that I was going to go ahead and do it anyway because they weren't the ones who had to deal with it all the time - all of a sudden everyone thought it was a good idea and told me to go for it.
Moral of the story? People are indecisive. I've been playing since beta started and I've seen a multitude of stupid changes occur because of the people on the forums - rather, YOU. Here's some examples.
Tactical Assault Rifle - Too OP, according to people on forums. - Nerfed to hell, never used again, people complain about it being under powered. - Scopes on all Rifles replaced with terrible iron sights. - Made a return in Uprising, stats buffed, given a scope, people complained because it was too OP. - Nerfed again (after three weeks no less) because people complained.
Grenades (non-contact) - Worked just fine. Someone said they should change them in IRC, CCP did it. - Changed so that they fuse starts after it hits the ground and on a two second fuse. People complain. - Nerfed the timer on the fuse, but retained it's "no timer until it hits the ground" BS.
Grenades (contact) - Pay-to-win option only on first conception. - Splash range reduced. Wasn't good enough. - Removed from market completely. - Made a comeback, was still a pay-to-win option but CCP played it off that the Prototype was an ISK option despite it having a smaller splash radius. - Homogenized so that they all did the same range/damage and you can only carry one, but retained prices, making the advanced variant useless. - Advanced option removed from the market. - Some semblance of balance finally achieved.
Laser Rifles - Skills at the time were absolutely broken and neither of them had any effect on the gun. Still believed to be OP because of damage mods. - Nerfed (to hell) via skill application changes, removal of zoom effect, change to iron sights, very slow aim speed and damage build. - Buffed by adding a red-dot scope, slight zoom effect and faster aim speed.
So now we're looking at Aim Assist. Which is hilarious to me.
All anyone did was *****, complain and moan that they couldn't aim, the aiming system was too slippery, it was too hard to use and how it wasn't like other games, blah blah blah blah.
Now that it's "fixed" everyone is complaining that they aim too well and how it's like an aim bot.
Am I the only one who thinks this absolutely INSANE? You got EXACTLY what you wanted! The aiming system is barely any different than Call of Duty and you can butterfly aim much in the same way - so why is it such an issue now? I mean, for real people MAKE UP YOUR MINDS on what you want and stop having CCP change things unnecessarily when they could be working on something else! I'm sure CCP Wolfman hates all of you just from having to go back and change all of the weapons all the time because of forum bitching.
Just. Stop. Make up your minds, come to a conclusion on what the game actually needs and stick with it - don't turn around on your decisions because you're suddenly getting killed a lot - it's a shooter, you're supposed to die.
You have to agree, the laser is in a good place, sometimes you need to loose what you have to see what you need! The aim assist doesnt snap however it does actively help aiming, but really its not THAT bad.
You cant deny weapons need to be looked at now hit detection is fixed, but really we are closer to that AAA shooter sweet spot than we have ever been, were almost there!! |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2704
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 00:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:
You have to agree, the laser is in a good place, sometimes you need to loose what you have to see what you need! The aim assist doesnt snap however it does actively help aiming, but really its not THAT bad.
You cant deny weapons need to be looked at now hit detection is fixed, but really we are closer to that AAA shooter sweet spot than we have ever been, were almost there!!
I do agree, it definitely feels like a shooter now.
Though, I'm worried how CCP is planning on making the Scrambler Rifle/Assault Rifle range difference more "prominent"... I like that there is a notable difference but considering the Assault Scrambler Rifle has the same DPS as the Assault Rifle, with longer range, it's only real drawback(s) are armor damage and heat build-up, which can be worked around.
I'd love it if the Assault Rifle had slightly less range (like, 5m less) with a more prominent fall off though, like the Laser Rifle. The Laser Rifle falloff hits almost immediately out of it's effective range and is a sharp decline, so it's sort of finicky to use. The Assault Rifle might need this as 60m I am still doing about 60% efficiency, taking away from it's close quarters nature.
In which case, I also feel that the Assault Scrambler Rifle shouldn't match the Assault Rifle on DPS...
But this is all irrelevant to the topic. |
crazy space 1
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
1965
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 08:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
I'm just saying the game used the have aim assist AND IT WORKED
No one ever called it an aim bot when only 2000 people were playing a day on a good weekend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd0tAoagjDE
This is with aim assist. I'm starting to think I'm the only one that is still playing since 8 months ago :/ |
Grease Spillett
Ancient Exiles
28
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 08:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Anyone else see the subject matter initially not having anything to do with the post and skip to a witty remark?
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
|
Kasote Denzara
A Vulture
676
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 08:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
I don't know why people feel that aim-assist is even needed in consoles.
Then again, I don't mash the damn stick all the way to aim. You must be gentle, precise, and loving with your caressing of the stick.
Added note: It also helps to being able to use both thumbs at once, one to aim initially and the other to move for fine-tuning. Perks of capable multi-tasking, I guess.
I go commando in my Commando. Feels good, man.
|
8213
Grade No.2
534
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 08:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
I think CCP is testing AA with these patches. They want to find the perfect middle ground, then probably move to KB&M Srcubs next.
The HIT DETECTION was the bigger problem. However, that has to do with many factors. 1. Swaying hitboxes 2. Lag
Because the actual bullet registration is rather good in this game. Probably because the mechanic for it is simplistic, and simpler is BETTER when it comes to online coding.
I think right now, people are going b*tching about lack of bullet disbursement on the AR, because its seems that TTK has dropped in this game (Still not like Chorme...)
If a 5,000 person playerbase can't agree on anything, how do you expect DUST to ever get headed into the right direction? This game is f*cked on both ends. Either CCP needs to tell people to STFU and deal with it, or the playerbase needs to start agreeing on basic things...
The inmates are running the asylum, and the people that own the asylum should be inmates. |
Kasote Denzara
A Vulture
676
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 08:47:00 -
[19] - Quote
8213 wrote: If a 5,000 person playerbase can't agree on anything, how do you expect DUST to ever get headed into the right direction? This game is f*cked on both ends. Either CCP needs to tell people to STFU and deal with it, or the playerbase needs to start agreeing on basic things...
I think we can all agree that installation AI is hilariously good.
I go commando in my Commando. Feels good, man.
|
Laurent Cazaderon
What The French
2003
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 08:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
I find you're being a bit harsh regarding the community. We're hundreds of people so we're bound to always have people asking one thing and its exact opposite pretty much at the same time.
On the matter of the Aim Assist. I really never felt like there was much of a demand for a bigger aim assist. I think it was alwas about the feeling of the aim. I was discussing this monday night with some corp mates and some of them who never played with aim assist in any other game, or even on Dust before it was tuned, admitted it helped in making Dust feel a lot less "control weird" than usual.
So i'm not sure this was what was expected exactly. I know i expected more of a acceleration curve, dead zone etc.. tweak than an aim assist buff. I play with a KBM and only used the controller a few times since so i cant really say if it's OP. Will try it again tonight.
This Char i only use on the forum.
To contact me : "Cazaderon" in game and on Skype.
Et vive la France !
|
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
315
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 08:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:So, last week I started asking all of my facebook friends if I should cut my hair (I have hair down to the middle of my back). I was planning on getting a mohawk but keeping the length because I like extreme hairstyles and I figured since I didn't like cleaning and maintaining it because of the difficulties, I'd see what my friends thought. They all said not to do it.
Welp, I find it interesting that yesterday I posted up on facebook that I was going to go ahead and do it anyway because they weren't the ones who had to deal with it all the time - all of a sudden everyone thought it was a good idea and told me to go for it.
Moral of the story? People are indecisive. I've been playing since beta started and I've seen a multitude of stupid changes occur because of the people on the forums - rather, YOU. Here's some examples.
Tactical Assault Rifle - Too OP, according to people on forums. - Nerfed to hell, never used again, people complain about it being under powered. - Scopes on all Rifles replaced with terrible iron sights. - Made a return in Uprising, stats buffed, given a scope, people complained because it was too OP. - Nerfed again (after three weeks no less) because people complained.
Grenades (non-contact) - Worked just fine. Someone said they should change them in IRC, CCP did it. - Changed so that they fuse starts after it hits the ground and on a two second fuse. People complain. - Nerfed the timer on the fuse, but retained it's "no timer until it hits the ground" BS.
Grenades (contact) - Pay-to-win option only on first conception. - Splash range reduced. Wasn't good enough. - Removed from market completely. - Made a comeback, was still a pay-to-win option but CCP played it off that the Prototype was an ISK option despite it having a smaller splash radius. - Homogenized so that they all did the same range/damage and you can only carry one, but retained prices, making the advanced variant useless. - Advanced option removed from the market. - Some semblance of balance finally achieved.
Laser Rifles - Skills at the time were absolutely broken and neither of them had any effect on the gun. Still believed to be OP because of damage mods. - Nerfed (to hell) via skill application changes, removal of zoom effect, change to iron sights, very slow aim speed and damage build. - Buffed by adding a red-dot scope, slight zoom effect and faster aim speed.
So now we're looking at Aim Assist. Which is hilarious to me.
All anyone did was *****, complain and moan that they couldn't aim, the aiming system was too slippery, it was too hard to use and how it wasn't like other games, blah blah blah blah.
Now that it's "fixed" everyone is complaining that they aim too well and how it's like an aim bot.
Am I the only one who thinks this absolutely INSANE? You got EXACTLY what you wanted! The aiming system is barely any different than Call of Duty and you can butterfly aim much in the same way - so why is it such an issue now? I mean, for real people MAKE UP YOUR MINDS on what you want and stop having CCP change things unnecessarily when they could be working on something else! I'm sure CCP Wolfman hates all of you just from having to go back and change all of the weapons all the time because of forum bitching.
Just. Stop. Make up your minds, come to a conclusion on what the game actually needs and stick with it - don't turn around on your decisions because you're suddenly getting killed a lot - it's a shooter, you're supposed to die.
Hit detection is not Aim Assist. You invalidated your whole rant post with this being your core assumption...
If you can read this, it means you are reading.
|
IAmDuncanIdaho II
R 0 N 1 N
122
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Posted - 2013.11.06 09:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
Moral of the story? People are indecisive. I've been playing since beta started and I've seen a multitude of stupid changes occur because of the people on the forums - rather, YOU. Here's some examples.
Examples
I would hope CCP take most of what we say with a pinch of salt. However, I can't see how they can try stuff out for themselves. Even with the server in VIP mode, how many mercs do they get into a battle, for how long, with enough playstyle variety for them to draw meaningful conclusions? Or perhaps that's not what VIP mode is for.
I think it's great that we get to give feedback. But that should be all it is. I had a thought earlier that some of us lot should be involved in some play-testing in VIP mode or something. But I don't see how that would change our feedback from getting let loose on it for real. Because I want my scout to be better, and someone else wants their heavy to be better. Aside from this natural bias that influences any feedback, neither one of us can determine whether anything we don't normally do is balanced or not.
And how the hell you choose who gets to do that is beyond me - we have a CPM some of whose actions and representations are dubious, and they were hand-picked based on reputation. I don't know if I could be objective enough to provide balanced feedback if I were to play-test.
Pulling some numbers out of thin air, if 80% of the player base use assault rifles, and most of them are (it's human nature) gonna want to kill better, then they're going to look for weaknesses in the AR and want it buffed. This is not balanced feedback, and is further skewed because you've already got a higher volume of buff suggestions simply because 4 out of 5 mercs aren't gonna say anything different. I'm sure there's a statistical term for this skewing.
So are there any answers? I dunno - test servers have been mentioned in the past, but not sure if they're feasible or if they'd even solve anything, short of fragmenting the player base. But basing balance decisions off of metrics must surely be skewed due to the flavour-of-the-month effect - we basically change our loadouts and styles when a release drops, so can you really compare apples to apples?
I just put 3 levels into dampening, because I was getting scanned to crap. So I already became incomparable to previous battles :)
Two penneth. |
Pent'noir
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
176
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 09:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
To me, Aim assist has always been a band-aid solution to when we had horrid hit detection. The aim assist would ensure that you'd hit the optimal place in the hit box so we would get less xmas trees with no damage. I never (that I recall) wanted aim assist to stick around forever.
However, I can't say from my own personal experience that it is time to get rid of it just yet. I still play with aim assist on and should probably take the month to play without it to see if our hit detection really is that good. |
Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
66
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 09:04:00 -
[24] - Quote
IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
Moral of the story? People are indecisive. I've been playing since beta started and I've seen a multitude of stupid changes occur because of the people on the forums - rather, YOU. Here's some examples.
Examples
I would hope CCP take most of what we say with a pinch of salt. However, I can't see how they can try stuff out for themselves. Even with the server in VIP mode, how many mercs do they get into a battle, for how long, with enough playstyle variety for them to draw meaningful conclusions? Or perhaps that's not what VIP mode is for. I think it's great that we get to give feedback. But that should be all it is. I had a thought earlier that some of us lot should be involved in some play-testing in VIP mode or something. But I don't see how that would change our feedback from getting let loose on it for real. Because I want my scout to be better, and someone else wants their heavy to be better. Aside from this natural bias that influences any feedback, neither one of us can determine whether anything we don't normally do is balanced or not. And how the hell you choose who gets to do that is beyond me - we have a CPM some of whose actions and representations are dubious, and they were hand-picked based on reputation. I don't know if I could be objective enough to provide balanced feedback if I were to play-test. Pulling some numbers out of thin air, if 80% of the player base use assault rifles, and most of them are (it's human nature) gonna want to kill better, then they're going to look for weaknesses in the AR and want it buffed. This is not balanced feedback, and is further skewed because you've already got a higher volume of buff suggestions simply because 4 out of 5 mercs aren't gonna say anything different. I'm sure there's a statistical term for this skewing.So are there any answers? I dunno - test servers have been mentioned in the past, but not sure if they're feasible or if they'd even solve anything, short of fragmenting the player base. But basing balance decisions off of metrics must surely be skewed due to the flavour-of-the-month effect - we basically change our loadouts and styles when a release drops, so can you really compare apples to apples? I just put 3 levels into dampening, because I was getting scanned to crap. So I already became incomparable to previous battles :) Two penneth.
What you're referring to is basically the law of averages. The more people that use something, the more likely that will be affected. More or less.
I am the Horseless Headsman.
Director and COO of We Who Walk Alone
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Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder.
920
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 10:10:00 -
[25] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:So, last week I started asking all of my facebook friends if I should cut my hair (I have hair down to the middle of my back). I was planning on getting a mohawk but keeping the length because I like extreme hairstyles and I figured since I didn't like cleaning and maintaining it because of the difficulties, I'd see what my friends thought. They all said not to do it.
Welp, I find it interesting that yesterday I posted up on facebook that I was going to go ahead and do it anyway because they weren't the ones who had to deal with it all the time - all of a sudden everyone thought it was a good idea and told me to go for it.
Moral of the story? People are indecisive. I've been playing since beta started and I've seen a multitude of stupid changes occur because of the people on the forums - rather, YOU. Here's some examples.
Tactical Assault Rifle - Too OP, according to people on forums. - Nerfed to hell, never used again, people complain about it being under powered. - Scopes on all Rifles replaced with terrible iron sights. - Made a return in Uprising, stats buffed, given a scope, people complained because it was too OP. - Nerfed again (after three weeks no less) because people complained.
Grenades (non-contact) - Worked just fine. Someone said they should change them in IRC, CCP did it. - Changed so that they fuse starts after it hits the ground and on a two second fuse. People complain. - Nerfed the timer on the fuse, but retained it's "no timer until it hits the ground" BS.
Grenades (contact) - Pay-to-win option only on first conception. - Splash range reduced. Wasn't good enough. - Removed from market completely. - Made a comeback, was still a pay-to-win option but CCP played it off that the Prototype was an ISK option despite it having a smaller splash radius. - Homogenized so that they all did the same range/damage and you can only carry one, but retained prices, making the advanced variant useless. - Advanced option removed from the market. - Some semblance of balance finally achieved.
Laser Rifles - Skills at the time were absolutely broken and neither of them had any effect on the gun. Still believed to be OP because of damage mods. - Nerfed (to hell) via skill application changes, removal of zoom effect, change to iron sights, very slow aim speed and damage build. - Buffed by adding a red-dot scope, slight zoom effect and faster aim speed.
So now we're looking at Aim Assist. Which is hilarious to me.
All anyone did was *****, complain and moan that they couldn't aim, the aiming system was too slippery, it was too hard to use and how it wasn't like other games, blah blah blah blah.
Now that it's "fixed" everyone is complaining that they aim too well and how it's like an aim bot.
Am I the only one who thinks this absolutely INSANE? You got EXACTLY what you wanted! The aiming system is barely any different than Call of Duty and you can butterfly aim much in the same way - so why is it such an issue now? I mean, for real people MAKE UP YOUR MINDS on what you want and stop having CCP change things unnecessarily when they could be working on something else! I'm sure CCP Wolfman hates all of you just from having to go back and change all of the weapons all the time because of forum bitching.
Just. Stop. Make up your minds, come to a conclusion on what the game actually needs and stick with it - don't turn around on your decisions because you're suddenly getting killed a lot - it's a shooter, you're supposed to die. You have to agree, the laser is in a good place, sometimes you need to loose what you have to see what you need! The aim assist doesnt snap however it does actively help aiming, but really its not THAT bad. You cant deny weapons need to be looked at now hit detection is fixed, but really we are closer to that AAA shooter sweet spot than we have ever been, were almost there!!
"laser in a good place".....lol!!
Basic AR versus proto AR : more damage per bullet, more range, more acuracy,
Basic laser 17 per bullet , range 84m Proto laser 17 per bullet, range 84m
And the protolaser with 225 feedback damage lets you see Tech Ohm suicided.....lol!!
Duvolle AR OUTRANGES the proto viziam laser....lol!!
So WHAT EXACTLY OR WHERE is the laser in a good place?? |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3651
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 10:21:00 -
[26] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: "laser in a good place".....lol!!
Basic AR versus proto AR : more damage per bullet, more range, more acuracy,
Basic laser 17 per bullet , range 84m Proto laser 17 per bullet, range 84m
And the protolaser with 225 feedback damage lets you see Tech Ohm suicided.....lol!!
Duvolle AR OUTRANGES the proto viziam laser....lol!!
So WHAT EXACTLY OR WHERE is the laser in a good place??
True story, I once saw a Scout one-shot himself with Laser Rifle feedback.
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
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Ensar Cael
Svartur Bjorn
25
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 10:42:00 -
[27] - Quote
Hit detection has improved a lot to the point where aim assist is just a bad joke (it was in the first place!). It's well known that CCP put in AA to entice new players and that's it. It's a harsh universe and most n00bs can't take it so they QQ everywhere, rage quit and scream their little hearts out to all their CoD/ BF friends about DUST being too hard blah blah blah.
Lose the AA, enable friendly fire and remove the training wheels from this game.
FF enabled will make mercs a lot more tactical with their MD/ AR/ 'nade spam. Can't all pile into a room shooting if you are hitting your team mates in the back as you go. Bad manners for a start |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3651
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 10:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ensar Cael wrote:Hit detection has improved a lot to the point where aim assist is just a bad joke (it was in the first place!). It's well known that CCP put in AA to entice new players and that's it. It's a harsh universe and most n00bs can't take it so they QQ everywhere, rage quit and scream their little hearts out to all their CoD/ BF friends about DUST being too hard blah blah blah. Lose the AA, enable friendly fire and remove the training wheels from this game. FF enabled will make mercs a lot more tactical with their MD/ AR/ 'nade spam. Can't all pile into a room shooting if you are hitting your team mates in the back as you go. Bad manners for a start
Losing AA would just make more players use the MD and Grenades though. That's primarily the reason a lot of them used those weapons and tools to begin with is because the aiming mechanics were slippery. Even then there's a lot of games out there that use AA and it's not as bad as, say, Black Ops 2 where it aims through walls for you.
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
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Eris Ernaga
DUST University Ivy League
653
|
Posted - 2013.11.06 11:06:00 -
[29] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:So, last week I started asking all of my facebook friends if I should cut my hair (I have hair down to the middle of my back). I was planning on getting a mohawk but keeping the length because I like extreme hairstyles and I figured since I didn't like cleaning and maintaining it because of the difficulties, I'd see what my friends thought. They all said not to do it.
Welp, I find it interesting that yesterday I posted up on facebook that I was going to go ahead and do it anyway because they weren't the ones who had to deal with it all the time - all of a sudden everyone thought it was a good idea and told me to go for it.
Moral of the story? People are indecisive. I've been playing since beta started and I've seen a multitude of stupid changes occur because of the people on the forums - rather, YOU. Here's some examples.
Tactical Assault Rifle - Too OP, according to people on forums. - Nerfed to hell, never used again, people complain about it being under powered. - Scopes on all Rifles replaced with terrible iron sights. - Made a return in Uprising, stats buffed, given a scope, people complained because it was too OP. - Nerfed again (after three weeks no less) because people complained.
Grenades (non-contact) - Worked just fine. Someone said they should change them in IRC, CCP did it. - Changed so that they fuse starts after it hits the ground and on a two second fuse. People complain. - Nerfed the timer on the fuse, but retained it's "no timer until it hits the ground" BS.
Grenades (contact) - Pay-to-win option only on first conception. - Splash range reduced. Wasn't good enough. - Removed from market completely. - Made a comeback, was still a pay-to-win option but CCP played it off that the Prototype was an ISK option despite it having a smaller splash radius. - Homogenized so that they all did the same range/damage and you can only carry one, but retained prices, making the advanced variant useless. - Advanced option removed from the market. - Some semblance of balance finally achieved.
Laser Rifles - Skills at the time were absolutely broken and neither of them had any effect on the gun. Still believed to be OP because of damage mods. - Nerfed (to hell) via skill application changes, removal of zoom effect, change to iron sights, very slow aim speed and damage build. - Buffed by adding a red-dot scope, slight zoom effect and faster aim speed.
So now we're looking at Aim Assist. Which is hilarious to me.
All anyone did was *****, complain and moan that they couldn't aim, the aiming system was too slippery, it was too hard to use and how it wasn't like other games, blah blah blah blah.
Now that it's "fixed" everyone is complaining that they aim too well and how it's like an aim bot.
Am I the only one who thinks this absolutely INSANE? You got EXACTLY what you wanted! The aiming system is barely any different than Call of Duty and you can butterfly aim much in the same way - so why is it such an issue now? I mean, for real people MAKE UP YOUR MINDS on what you want and stop having CCP change things unnecessarily when they could be working on something else! I'm sure CCP Wolfman hates all of you just from having to go back and change all of the weapons all the time because of forum bitching.
Just. Stop. Make up your minds, come to a conclusion on what the game actually needs and stick with it - don't turn around on your decisions because you're suddenly getting killed a lot - it's a shooter, you're supposed to die.
The people on the forums don't speak for the entire player base there will always be segregated groups in the community. Sadly I have noticed the more CCP trys to fix things the more they get broken no one had a problem with Chromosome aiming with out aim assist then when they started adding aim assist and changing aiming it all got completely broken. No one asked for aiming changes and the funniest part was CCP was the one who original broke aiming then stated they had major improvements for aiming in the upcoming patches after they originally broke it. So it is CCP who is going in circles not entirely the small community on the forums.
Also you just hit me with core locus grenade right before down time ****... lol gg
Ba bang baby
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3655
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Posted - 2013.11.06 11:09:00 -
[30] - Quote
Eris Ernaga wrote:
The people on the forums don't speak for the entire player base there will always be segregated groups in the community. Sadly I have noticed the more CCP trys to fix things the more they get broken no one had a problem with Chromosome aiming with out aim assist then when they started adding aim assist and changing aiming it all got completely broken. No one asked for aiming changes and the funniest part was CCP was the one who original broke aiming then stated they had major improvements for aiming in the upcoming patches after they originally broke it. So it is CCP who is going in circles not entirely the small community on the forums.
Also you just hit me with core locus grenade right before down time ****... lol gg
Yeah, I really am sorry about that - I was having to deal with my team arguing about Daylight Savings Time and whether or not it's a government scheme to make money (wtf, seriously in a faction warfare match?). I had actually gone down there with the express intent to set a drop uplink next to the supply depot when I realized that I didn't have a fit -WITH- Drop Uplinks, and tried to risk altering my fit while I was down there. Got killed and decided, "**** it, one way or another I'm getting that drop uplink down there."
Long story short I switched to my PC suit and got that Drop Uplink in that supply depot, even though I had to default to the grenade to get it done X_X
ANON Diplomat // 3rd Place Winner of the Eight Thousand Suns Fiction Contest
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