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STEALTH HUNTER ZERO
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
26
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Posted - 2013.09.05 21:52:00 -
[31] - Quote
Chances Ghost wrote:Deranged Disaster wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:again, defending and explaining are two seperate things
my performance since the changes has been unchanged.
i was simply trying to enlighten people as to what exactly an aim assist does and what its limitations are, since they all seem to think it turns your crosshairs into a giant magnet of death I understand your point of view, it's not a giant magnet of death but it is pretty bad. It does lock on and stays on, it is noticable but the thing is it took me a while to see it clearly. I suggest you play a couple more games and see how it goes, maybe you'll notice it yourself. if by a couple more games you mean more games then it takes to cap out...... ive tested it quite a bit, if anything i think it helps snipers more then everyone else, IF they get lucky with rendering. quit it with the condesention, this isnt a **** waving party, this is a simple discussion of mechanics, and its limitations. you have yet to provide anything constructive to the discussion and have instead opted for personal attacks as some sort of way to ease your need to feel supirior in some way.
That part about Snipers made me burst out in uncontrollable laughter... seriously man, is snipping what your basing your findings on??? If it is then all your testing is invalid. Sniper rifles don't get aim assist, nor does the forge gun, mass driver, or plasma cannon. |
Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
700
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 21:53:00 -
[32] - Quote
STEALTH HUNTER ZERO wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:Deranged Disaster wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:again, defending and explaining are two seperate things
my performance since the changes has been unchanged.
i was simply trying to enlighten people as to what exactly an aim assist does and what its limitations are, since they all seem to think it turns your crosshairs into a giant magnet of death I understand your point of view, it's not a giant magnet of death but it is pretty bad. It does lock on and stays on, it is noticable but the thing is it took me a while to see it clearly. I suggest you play a couple more games and see how it goes, maybe you'll notice it yourself. if by a couple more games you mean more games then it takes to cap out...... ive tested it quite a bit, if anything i think it helps snipers more then everyone else, IF they get lucky with rendering. quit it with the condesention, this isnt a **** waving party, this is a simple discussion of mechanics, and its limitations. you have yet to provide anything constructive to the discussion and have instead opted for personal attacks as some sort of way to ease your need to feel supirior in some way. That part about Snipers made me burst out in uncontrollable laughter... seriously man, is snipping what your basing your findings on??? If it is then all your testing is invalid. Sniper rifles don't get aim assist, nor does the forge gun, mass driver, or plasma cannon.
as stated above, i dont use snipers, and diddnt test sniper rifles. all testing was done with the 3 AR varients and submachine guns |
KalOfTheRathi
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
644
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 22:26:00 -
[33] - Quote
Let me explain why you are wrong, Chance.
It is an aim bot when you can shoot to the side of a Red and gets hits and kills. At the very least it is an auto hit bot. Is that a better description for you?
Their solution is wrong but it does show that they are consistent!
The previous solution would physically move your cursor Away From The Target as well as force you to miss more often than not. Mostly an anti aim assistant.
This one will get the hit even if it is Actually Aimed At The Red.
You are describing aiming assistance in game that is not written by CCP/Shanghai. Let us know what game that is so we can try it for real.
Aim Assist, if I was coding for it or writing the requirements, should entail the following:
As mentioned, slow the cursor so it lingers over the target, unless ADS is active.
Have a set of heuristics that establish the average hits/shots of all weapons, possibly offset with SP level or equipment level.
Then limit the hits to a percentage of the above values. Occasionally allowing 100% of the average, not 100% of the rounds to hit.
Never allow the aim assistant to get Head Shots.
ADS would completely deactivate Aim Assistance.
Now, let them write that one. And most of the complaints will fade. Not all, this is DUST and an internet Forum.
I believe that the aim assistance was designed based on the older DUST. With the incremental changes the aim assistance is unbalanced as implemented. My design would adjust automatically to changes in the game with nothing more than a script to reset the heuristics during server shut down. |
Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
703
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 22:32:00 -
[34] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:Let me explain why you are wrong, Chance. It is an aim bot when you can shoot to the side of a Red and gets hits and kills. At the very least it is an auto hit bot. Is that a better description for you? Their solution is wrong but it does show that they are consistent! The previous solution would physically move your cursor Away From The Target as well as force you to miss more often than not. Mostly an anti aim assistant. This one will get the hit even if it is Actually Aimed At The Red. You are describing aiming assistance in game that is not written by CCP/Shanghai. Let us know what game that is so we can try it for real. Aim Assist, if I was coding for it or writing the requirements, should entail the following: As mentioned, slow the cursor so it lingers over the target, unless ADS is active. Have a set of heuristics that establish the average hits/shots of all weapons, possibly offset with SP level or equipment level. Then limit the hits to a percentage of the above values. Occasionally allowing 100% of the average, not 100% of the rounds to hit. Never allow the aim assistant to get Head Shots. ADS would completely deactivate Aim Assistance. Now, let them write that one. And most of the complaints will fade. Not all, this is DUST and an internet Forum. I believe that the aim assistance was designed based on the older DUST. With the incremental changes the aim assistance is unbalanced as implemented. My design would adjust automatically to changes in the game with nothing more than a script to reset the heuristics during server shut down.
you have a good point, i was mostly testing its effects on curser movement, i will test some more to see just how oftin i can aim just to the side but not at my target and still hit them.
further testing nessesary
thank you
(ill also test to see wearther it changes based off the targets movement.) |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
8078
|
Posted - 2013.09.05 23:03:00 -
[35] - Quote
DootDoot wrote:I'm a noob in this game been playing for a short time and its silly the registry i get with it and it does pull my aim im currently making a montage of 15 minutes of gameplay highlights and the footage is shocking... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEIB2lV7TE8<--- video i made about aim assist last night that brought me here.
Looks like hit detection. |
Flint Beastgood III
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
99
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 01:10:00 -
[36] - Quote
OK. Extensive testing revealed to me that the aim assist IS magnetized. I stood completely still for minutes on end while ADS and every time an enemy went past my crosshair it moved. When someone inside the crosshair jumped, my sights moved up to follow them. Anyone refuting the aimbot/magnet claims needs to do further testing!
EDIT: hit detection has definitely improved vastly too. The combined effects of these 2 changes were what caught me off guard. I have now adapted and all is well for the time being. Still, they could do with toning down the aim assist. |
DootDoot
Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic
12
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Posted - 2013.09.07 01:23:00 -
[37] - Quote
pegasis prime wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:It's still a crutch and turning Dust into a shooter for people who like to ride bikes with training wheels...skill is suddenly pretty irrelevant. sooo KB/M wich still has more fine tuned aiming controls is a crutch? and aim assist to compete with KB/B (a war wich KB/M is still winning) is a bigger crutch? wich control scheme do you use may i ask? KB/M still requires skill....aim assist doesn't. By using aim assist you're essentially admitting that you suck at the the game... Kbm has a major advantage over ds3 and admiting you use it on a consol game means you are admitting that you indeed do suck ass.
If you know any player high up on the leaderboards that uses a DS3 ask him that question see if it even mirror's closely your natural response.
There are way more ds3 users ranked high on leaderboards then kb/m. And if you are blaming kb/m for your ds3 inadequacy and are making it public your just calling yourself out to the people who know better.
PS4 is fully KB/M supported... CoD, battlefield, Planetside... all the big titles everyone talks about or uses in arguments will be the same... welcome to the new generation of gaming boy's the one where its everyone's flat screen. adapt or die i think is the saying? |
Lightning Bolt2
Binary Mercs Abandon PlayGrounds
166
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 02:11:00 -
[38] - Quote
Haven't read past the OP, but you're description IS what an Aim Assist is, but in DUST the aimbot also sticks to the target and tracks it for you! thats why it is an aimbot, I have nothing more to say to newbs like you who can't aim. |
Tallen Ellecon
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
697
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 02:34:00 -
[39] - Quote
I suck at aiming without aim assist, but I'm good at a lot of other things like life. |
Flint Beastgood III
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
101
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 11:03:00 -
[40] - Quote
Tallen Ellecon wrote:I suck at aiming without aim assist, but I'm good at a lot of other things like life.
Haha, you can be good at both though. And as they say... practice makes perfect.
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
116
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Posted - 2013.09.07 11:24:00 -
[41] - Quote
R'adeh Hunt wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:It's still a crutch and turning Dust into a shooter for people who like to ride bikes with training wheels...skill is suddenly pretty irrelevant. sooo KB/M wich still has more fine tuned aiming controls is a crutch? and aim assist to compete with KB/B (a war wich KB/M is still winning) is a bigger crutch? wich control scheme do you use may i ask? KB/M still requires skill....aim assist doesn't. By using aim assist you're essentially admitting that you suck at the the game... And by using KBM you are admitting you suck at console games, which this game is. As long as KBM is supported, aim assist should be. |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1774
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 11:26:00 -
[42] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:It's still a crutch and turning Dust into a shooter for people who like to ride bikes with training wheels...skill is suddenly pretty irrelevant. sooo KB/M wich still has more fine tuned aiming controls is a crutch? and aim assist to compete with KB/B (a war wich KB/M is still winning) is a bigger crutch? wich control scheme do you use may i ask? KB/M still requires skill....aim assist doesn't. By using aim assist you're essentially admitting that you suck at the the game... And by using KBM you are admitting you suck at console games, which this game is. As long as KBM is supported, aim assist should be.
aim assist in other shooters only works on user input, it never moves the reticule without any kind of input from the user.
Dust auto tracks, and quite a bit. Aim assist is broken. There is a video now. Stop trying so hard to defend something that is clearly broken. Its worse than people defending the TAC ARs. |
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
116
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 11:31:00 -
[43] - Quote
STEALTH HUNTER ZERO wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:Deranged Disaster wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:again, defending and explaining are two seperate things
my performance since the changes has been unchanged.
i was simply trying to enlighten people as to what exactly an aim assist does and what its limitations are, since they all seem to think it turns your crosshairs into a giant magnet of death I understand your point of view, it's not a giant magnet of death but it is pretty bad. It does lock on and stays on, it is noticable but the thing is it took me a while to see it clearly. I suggest you play a couple more games and see how it goes, maybe you'll notice it yourself. if by a couple more games you mean more games then it takes to cap out...... ive tested it quite a bit, if anything i think it helps snipers more then everyone else, IF they get lucky with rendering. quit it with the condesention, this isnt a **** waving party, this is a simple discussion of mechanics, and its limitations. you have yet to provide anything constructive to the discussion and have instead opted for personal attacks as some sort of way to ease your need to feel supirior in some way. That part about Snipers made me burst out in uncontrollable laughter... seriously man, is snipping what your basing your findings on??? If it is then all your testing is invalid. Sniper rifles don't get aim assist, nor does the forge gun, mass driver, or plasma cannon. The sniper rifle should get it, but in a weakened form as sniping could become stupidly easy if it is as strong as it is on weapons like the AR. And forge guns should get it, but it should only help with vehicles. I don't think the mechanic would even work for the PC and MD, as they have an arc. |
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
116
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 11:33:00 -
[44] - Quote
Lurchasaurus wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:It's still a crutch and turning Dust into a shooter for people who like to ride bikes with training wheels...skill is suddenly pretty irrelevant. sooo KB/M wich still has more fine tuned aiming controls is a crutch? and aim assist to compete with KB/B (a war wich KB/M is still winning) is a bigger crutch? wich control scheme do you use may i ask? KB/M still requires skill....aim assist doesn't. By using aim assist you're essentially admitting that you suck at the the game... And by using KBM you are admitting you suck at console games, which this game is. As long as KBM is supported, aim assist should be. aim assist in other shooters only works on user input, it never moves the reticule without any kind of input from the user. Dust auto tracks, and quite a bit. Aim assist is broken. There is a video now. Stop trying so hard to defend something that is clearly broken. Its worse than people defending the TAC ARs. I know it tracks, and that aspect of it needs to go, it should slow down your aiming to allow for more preside shots when your reticle is near an enemy, but it shouldn't move your reticle by itself. I think the game needs AA, but not as strong as it is. |
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
116
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 11:45:00 -
[45] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:Let me explain why you are wrong, Chance.
It is an aim bot when you can shoot to the side of a Red and gets hits and kills. At the very least it is an auto hit bot. Is that a better description for you?
That is your game client telling the server that you shot a round there, the server confirming the information and checking whether or not an enemy was there when you shot, and then sending information to both you, the shooter, and your target. Then you get hit markers in a place the enemy no longer is, because information travel is fast but not instantaneous. This happens in pretty much every multiplayer FPS. It isn't because of the aim assist. This happens because hit detection was fixed. |
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
116
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 11:52:00 -
[46] - Quote
DootDoot wrote:pegasis prime wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:It's still a crutch and turning Dust into a shooter for people who like to ride bikes with training wheels...skill is suddenly pretty irrelevant. sooo KB/M wich still has more fine tuned aiming controls is a crutch? and aim assist to compete with KB/B (a war wich KB/M is still winning) is a bigger crutch? wich control scheme do you use may i ask? KB/M still requires skill....aim assist doesn't. By using aim assist you're essentially admitting that you suck at the the game... Kbm has a major advantage over ds3 and admiting you use it on a consol game means you are admitting that you indeed do suck ass. If you know any player high up on the leaderboards that uses a DS3 ask him that question see if it even mirror's closely your natural response. There are way more ds3 users ranked high on leaderboards then kb/m. And if you are blaming kb/m for your ds3 inadequacy and are making it public your just calling yourself out to the people who know better. PS4 is fully KB/M supported... CoD, battlefield, Planetside... all the big titles everyone talks about or uses in arguments will be the same... welcome to the new generation of gaming boy's the one where its everyone's flat screen. adapt or die i think is the saying? Either that, or all of those games will get AA. Which seems likely for games like COD and Battlefield. Planetside will have it too I'm sure, maybe not immediately, but eventually. |
Nemo Bluntz
TeamPlayers EoN.
558
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 15:52:00 -
[47] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:It's still a crutch and turning Dust into a shooter for people who like to ride bikes with training wheels...skill is suddenly pretty irrelevant. sooo KB/M wich still has more fine tuned aiming controls is a crutch? and aim assist to compete with KB/B (a war wich KB/M is still winning) is a bigger crutch? wich control scheme do you use may i ask? KB/M still requires skill....aim assist doesn't. By using aim assist you're essentially admitting that you suck at the the game... And by using KBM you are admitting you suck at console games, which this game is. As long as KBM is supported, aim assist should be.
If kb/m is supported it should at least actually work before gimping it down even further to the controller by giving a huge advantage to the one scheme and not the other.
The mouse controls right now are awful. Despite you reading that "CCP said they fixed it", its definitely not 'fixed.' I don't mind aim assist on a console shooter, but good God the game is just handing kills to people at this point. Try using a mouse, see how comparatively difficult it is to track anybody, then maybe you'll have a little perspective on why the mouse players aren't happy right now.
CCP wants there to be kb/m support, just as there is Move support. If you look in the options you'll see that each has their own whole tab for control settings. The guy saying "so you use the controls that the game offers? then you suck at console shooters, and you just admitted it!" Get the **** out with that. Dust is a shooter on a console, but its not a console shooter that demands you use only one control style (well, at the moment it kind of does, but its definitely not the intention of the developer). If you want a console shooter that's pad only, go play a console shooter that's pad only. In the meantime, the people who want to use their preferred control style have a right to complain about it being so ****-poorly implemented. |
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
128
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 18:48:00 -
[48] - Quote
Nemo Bluntz wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:It's still a crutch and turning Dust into a shooter for people who like to ride bikes with training wheels...skill is suddenly pretty irrelevant. sooo KB/M wich still has more fine tuned aiming controls is a crutch? and aim assist to compete with KB/B (a war wich KB/M is still winning) is a bigger crutch? wich control scheme do you use may i ask? KB/M still requires skill....aim assist doesn't. By using aim assist you're essentially admitting that you suck at the the game... And by using KBM you are admitting you suck at console games, which this game is. As long as KBM is supported, aim assist should be. If kb/m is supported it should at least actually work before gimping it down even further to the controller by giving a huge advantage to the one scheme and not the other. The mouse controls right now are awful. Despite you reading that "CCP said they fixed it", its definitely not 'fixed.' I don't mind aim assist on a console shooter, but good God the game is just handing kills to people at this point. Try using a mouse, see how comparatively difficult it is to track anybody, then maybe you'll have a little perspective on why the mouse players aren't happy right now. CCP wants there to be kb/m support, just as there is Move support. If you look in the options you'll see that each has their own whole tab for control settings. The guy saying "so you use the controls that the game offers? then you suck at console shooters, and you just admitted it!" Get the **** out with that. Dust is a shooter on a console, but its not a console shooter that demands you use only one control style (well, at the moment it kind of does, but its definitely not the intention of the developer). If you want a console shooter that's pad only, go play a console shooter that's pad only. In the meantime, the people who want to use their preferred control style have a right to complain about it being so ****-poorly implemented. I'm not sure about the controls for KBM on this game, but on other shooters it is vastly superior to any controller. I would like to use KBM, but my PS3 only has 2 USB ports and a mic isn't an option to me at this point. The only mouse I have is a cheap Logitech laptop mouse as well, I've tried it but that mouse is horrid. |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
1065
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 19:16:00 -
[49] - Quote
This should be required reading for the entire community. Please sticky this. And put the video IWS linked on the front page. Hiiiiiiiiiii-larious. |
DootDoot
Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 21:21:00 -
[50] - Quote
The mere assumption that everyone that wants to use their preferred peripheral on a gaming platform makes the pad useless is absurd...
The hardware race on PC's is getting expensive and the world is getting harder...
PC's with similar spec's to the PS4's aren't cheap compared to the supposed sticker on the PS4. Peripheral choice is purely the transition from low budget PC gaming boxes to the new generation console's.
CCP is with the curve on this as they are very in-tune with the computer gaming world, hence the console based DUST and the support for KB/M.
Most know this is coming and the pad users who is confident with their aim, welcome the new challenge of beating something hyped so much said to circumvent all their skill.
Two peripheral's in two different players hands mimicking their direct input and one beating out the other is what FPS's are about. And the learning curve starts...
People who log on and think because they have a pad they are at a disadvantage for playing games (even before KB/M) and there should be a computer helping you out. Are people that just got tired of going to the options menu and having to turn it to "easy" mode. |
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SgtDoughnut
M.E.R.C. Elite D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
13
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Posted - 2013.09.07 21:36:00 -
[51] - Quote
R'adeh Hunt wrote:Chances Ghost wrote:R'adeh Hunt wrote:It's still a crutch and turning Dust into a shooter for people who like to ride bikes with training wheels...skill is suddenly pretty irrelevant. sooo KB/M wich still has more fine tuned aiming controls is a crutch? and aim assist to compete with KB/B (a war wich KB/M is still winning) is a bigger crutch? wich control scheme do you use may i ask? KB/M still requires skill....aim assist doesn't. By using aim assist you're essentially admitting that you suck at the the game...
Have to love people who backup their claims not with facts or statistics, but with the statement YOU SUCK or some variant of that. Seriously are you five years old or something? |
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