CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia

Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.

If the AV weapon at hand cost as much as a turret, I do not care about the hull costs or my modules, but if your weapons cost nearly as much as the turret then I'd be alot more okay with dying to you (srsly, why is the forge stronger than rails, and the swarms better than missiles?)

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King of the Forums // Seraphim <3
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you say not to complain in the title yet at the end of your paragraph you complained lol

CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia

Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.

Tanks need to be cheaper , thats all.

CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia

Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.

CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia

Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.

Tanks need to be cheaper , thats all.

If the AV weapon at hand cost as much as a turret, I do not care about the hull costs or my modules, but if your weapons cost nearly as much as the turret then I'd be alot more okay with dying to you (srsly, why is the forge stronger than rails, and the swarms better than missiles?)

Edit: Adding some numbers for those that want to argue against this. All turrets have the same prices, despite being a blaster, railgun or missile launcher, same with AV it seems.

Large Turrets (Basic Types, no Variants)
Standard: 48,000 ISK
Advanced 145,720 ISK
Prototype 442,400 ISK

Small Turrets: (Basic Types, no Variants)
Standard: 12,000 ISK
Advanced: 36,440 ISK
Prototype: 110,600 ISK

AV (Variants included) (Swarms, Forge Guns, Plasma Cannons)
Standard: 1,500 ISK
Standard Variant: 2,460 ISK
Advanced: 6,585 ISK
Advanced Variant: 10,770 ISK
Prototype: 28,845 ISK
Prototype Variant: 46,220 ISK

One cannot argue that AV matches up to small turrets either, as their advanced weapons don't even meet the cost of a standard turret, the variants of turrets are even more costly and in some cases, are worse than the standard ones!

---

King of the Forums // Seraphim <3
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for their current effectiveness, yes. King, for once.....you are right.

CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia

Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.

this x1000 ridiculous that the proto AFG does 126 less damage than my proto compressed railgun. On top of that he can see me while I can't see him. A big part of EVE is risk Vs. reward, thats the imbalance here. Even if I kill him I get a pittance because he's not risking any real isk.

And this is one of the fundamental problems vehicle users have with AV. This is logic that even the most trollish AV user cant argue. This is a problem.

This needs to be copied and made into its own thread, stickied, covered in maple syrup, and given tender lovins

CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia

Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.

Am all for making swarm launchers cost the same as HAV turrets as soon as they can lock onto infantry and they boost the range so I can hide behind the red line without waiting for **** to come close to me.

Jokes aside, I dont think Isk is the true value of something, OP is talking like the only thing he can shoot is AV runners and its a fair comparison. HAV can do a lot more than a AV runner, hell one is general and the other is specialised, gtfo with this bs.

CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia

Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.

It's only bullshit to you because you fear a crutch being expensive, EVE is about ISK, DUST = EVE Universe, should be about ISK.

I don't expect AV to be exactly the same price, also as a Proto Forge Gunner, I'm not limited to shooting just Vehicles, you act like I can't go 20/0 in a Forge Gun fit, with no vehicles on the field.

What I'm saying is I'd like to see AV alot more expensive, rather than a tiny fraction of the cost of a Turret, but maybe a half, hell even 3/4s of the cost would be nice. Then I'd still be in favour of AV being strong, because it means you cannot rush me 10 times, die and still make a profit, you rush me 5 times and you'll break even, that would be nice.

It's only bullshit to you because you fear a crutch being expensive, EVE is about ISK, DUST = EVE Universe, should be about ISK.

---

King of the Forums // Seraphim <3
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AV, specially Forge guns ARE Expensive if you consider the SP/ISK sink to even get the first one...
Just compare how much SP/ISK it would cost you to have a Duvolle AR wtih Proficiency 3 ,and then how much it would cost you to have a Kaalakiota FG with Prof 3?
Then add the fact that us fatties die a LOT more than tanks.Yeah believe it or not.Remember: TAnks can be countered By AV and other tanks/droships. Heavies get killed by everything in the game....
DO NOT INCREASE THE PRICE OF AV, decrease the price of vehicles....

Tanks need to be cheaper , thats all.

In their current state, they shouldnt be more expensive than a dropsuit. I can go 15/0 just as easy in a callogi as in a tank.

AV, specially Forge guns ARE Expensive if you consider the SP/ISK sink to even get the first one...
Just compare how much SP/ISK it would cost you to have a Duvolle AR wtih Proficiency 3 ,and then how much it would cost you to have a Kaalakiota FG with Prof 3?
Then add the fact that us fatties die a LOT more than tanks.Yeah believe it or not.Remember: TAnks can be countered By AV and other tanks/droships. Heavies get killed by everything in the game....
DO NOT INCREASE THE PRICE OF AV, decrease the price of vehicles....

CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia

Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.

AV, specially Forge guns ARE Expensive if you consider the SP/ISK sink to even get the first one...
Just compare how much SP/ISK it would cost you to have a Duvolle AR wtih Proficiency 3 ,and then how much it would cost you to have a Kaalakiota FG with Prof 3?
Then add the fact that us fatties die a LOT more than tanks.Yeah believe it or not.Remember: TAnks can be countered By AV and other tanks/droships. Heavies get killed by everything in the game....
DO NOT INCREASE THE PRICE OF AV, decrease the price of vehicles....

After talking with you about the ISK based gameplay, I wouldn't even mind if tank costs stayed the same, let there be real value and real losses when we lose vehicles, but let AV feel the same way, no?

(Edit: Tanks Costs staying the same, not tanks staying the same, ****.)

Well what i see is this; The price doesnt match the effectiveness nor performance of the tanks.

Here i go:
AV weapons are expensive if you consider the high SP sink you need to get them and how much easier is to take away 1000 EHP of a slow moving heavy than 8000+ of a tank. Heavies end up Dying a LOT more. Ive lost my 150k Adv Dropsuit a lot trying to bring down a single tank. Of course the, price MATCHES the effectiveness of the suit. I can withstand some small arms fire, i can take up to 3 ishikune sniper rifle shots without dying and even take 1-5 tank blaster bullets to the face and survive. My FG is Pretty effective vs tanks and dropships, and 1HKO's all infantry , BUT its not effective at CQ at all , making positioning -+ of the battle.

The tanks , as i've seen them, are good. I've seen tankers destroy teams on their own.BUT if they are to loose the tank the amount of ISK lost is a LOT. I just couldn't believe how much proto turrets cost (i have a Tank ALT). Now im the kind of guy who will always be on infantry's side, since its a FPS i truly believe we deserve priority. BUT i know TANKS,LAVS and DROPSHIPS give the game diversity, and the fact they have customization options give dust something different. I insist no vehicle should be indestructible. Dropships should be destroyed after 2 FGuns or 3 Swarms (Im talking all proto gear here, no DAM RESISTANCE Mods and no regen taken in consideration) Tanks SHOULDNT withstand more than 5 FGuns in ANY situation nor 6 Swarms. LAVs Shouldnt withstand 2 of ANYTHING considering how fast they are....
BUT the price on everything should be reduced so that the player can afford to loose many of them and giving it some play style consistency; As a vehicle player. Overall a good tank should cost around 400000-500000 ISK. Why? It means you can buy a good tank every 2 games in average and if you loose it to PROTO AV , well, better be sneakier next time.... This would bring true balance to Vehicle - aV weapons and even leaving Forge guns as they are vehicle drivers WOULDNT complain so much about loosing their vehicles.....

''And this is one of the fundamental problems vehicle users have with AV. This is logic that even the most trollish AV user cant argue. This is a problem.''

Yeah, i agree. But the problem is pricing i think.

AV, specially Forge guns ARE Expensive if you consider the SP/ISK sink to even get the first one...
Just compare how much SP/ISK it would cost you to have a Duvolle AR wtih Proficiency 3 ,and then how much it would cost you to have a Kaalakiota FG with Prof 3?
Then add the fact that us fatties die a LOT more than tanks.Yeah believe it or not.Remember: TAnks can be countered By AV and other tanks/droships. Heavies get killed by everything in the game....
DO NOT INCREASE THE PRICE OF AV, decrease the price of vehicles....

Its far easier to kill a guy holding a swarm launcher than it is for a guy to kill a tank with turrets.

So shut the **** up.

CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia

Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.

How ******* wrong you are.
Takes one guy to dominate the field with AV, stops any Vehicles coming along, for less than 50k, despite my fit costing 1.3 Million ISK, theres a definite Risk v Reward imbalance here.

---

King of the Forums // Seraphim <3
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How ******* wrong you are.
Takes one guy to dominate the field with AV, stops any Vehicles coming along, for less than 50k, despite my fit costing 1.3 Million ISK, theres a definite Risk v Reward imbalance here.

I run AV. Any tank with half a brain always escapes. Its the tanks that feel like they can't be killed that get away scott free.

Hell, a God damn shield tank is basically invulnerable to swarms and AV nades.

"my fit costs money, so I shouldn't ever die before killing 100 people" is such a silly ******* position.

CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia

Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.

Where the **** have I said that? I don't support needing a squad to kill me, but I don't expect to be solo'd by something that costs 40k as opposed to my 1mil, It throws Risk v Reward out the window, you die 10 times, and you're not even at half the tanks worth, Make them cost more, and not only do we not have to lower the cost of tanks, so you're still rewarded, but if the Tank survives against AV, he's gonna be rewarded a bit more and when he dies, safe in the knowledge it didn't cost them 40k to kill him.

I don't support needing a squad to kill me, but I don't expect to be solo'd by something that costs 40k as opposed to my 1mil

Let me just hop in this. Excuse me for removing your ******** post-bloat(AKA your "signature").

So if they re-tune tanks, lower their cost to 2x the cost of a Proto Fit(FYI my Proto AV fit is 285K, not 40K), so about 550-600K per proto tank, will you stop b!tching if you get solo'd? Legitimate question - will you stop complaining?

CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia

Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.

Today's your lucky day. I'm going to throw you some life changing advice.

Don't play like a ******* idiot, and you won't be killed by a guy in a 40k suit.

Woah, did you feel that? I did. All of a sudden, you're a better player.

CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia

Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.

I'd continue bitching because I feel that's too cheap. imo a Tank shouldn't be cheap, I am happy to grind 5 matches to get my Tank because sure, it should be a squad weapon, and when it's run in a squad it becomes very good at what it does against solo players. (Teamworking AV wins though.).

When I kill a HAV, I know someone worked hard for it, it's a higher risk than your average AR v AR fight, it's more intense because theres stuff to lose, decrease it and it will become boring HAV spam

Why is your Proto AV fit so high? My Proto Forge with double damage mods costs me 80k and it's very easy to solo tanks.

Fix the fact that swarms don't reliably track

Ask any Tanker here to rate my ability in HAVs and I can assure you it won't be what you're obviously assuming. I'm looking at both sides, I run all Vehicles, I run all AV, it's easy to smash HAVs with a Prototype Forge, yet the Prototype Forge costs less than a SMALL TURRET.

Now, before you add something about "Forges not being overpowered" or any other stupid **** I wasn't aiming at, Forges aren't OP to me, what they are though, are too effective for their actual cost.

What's even worse it, let's carry on with the Forge, you'd think its counterpart would be the Small Railgun, they're the same size except the rail is mounted. The Forge beats it in everything, and best of yet? it's a fraction of its price.

---

King of the Forums // Seraphim <3
Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here!
Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here!

a good tank costs about 8-9 mill

If the AV weapon at hand cost as much as a turret, I do not care about the hull costs or my modules, but if your weapons cost nearly as much as the turret then I'd be alot more okay with dying to you (srsly, why is the forge stronger than rails, and the swarms better than missiles?)

Edit: Adding some numbers for those that want to argue against this. All turrets have the same prices, despite being a blaster, railgun or missile launcher, same with AV it seems.

Large Turrets (Basic Types, no Variants)
Standard: 48,000 ISK
Advanced 145,720 ISK
Prototype 442,400 ISK

Small Turrets: (Basic Types, no Variants)
Standard: 12,000 ISK
Advanced: 36,440 ISK
Prototype: 110,600 ISK

AV (Variants included) (Swarms, Forge Guns, Plasma Cannons)
Standard: 1,500 ISK
Standard Variant: 2,460 ISK
Advanced: 6,585 ISK
Advanced Variant: 10,770 ISK
Prototype: 28,845 ISK
Prototype Variant: 46,220 ISK

One cannot argue that AV matches up to small turrets either, as their advanced weapons don't even meet the cost of a standard turret, the variants of turrets are even more costly and in some cases, are worse than the standard ones!

---

King of the Forums // Seraphim <3
Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here!
Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here!

Well if the would cost the same you would be indestructible as no one with half a mind would use them, you know instead of you "effective against everythin tankers" an AV guy is quite vulnerable to any enemy on the field while you only have to fear dedicated AV or other tanks .

Well if the would cost the same you would be indestructible as no one with half a mind would use them, you know instead of you "effective against everythin tankers" an AV guy is quite vulnerable to any enemy on the field while you only have to fear dedicated AV or other tanks .

Dude I dont know what your talking about no one would use them lol I used to run proto heavy forge when it was over 1 mill for my set up and still make an overall profit. Forge guns are way cheeper than they used to be as are tge heavy suits so forgers have it a bit easyer now as most I know run proto forge allway make a profit.

Don't get me wrong I think proto gear should be more expensive (not only proto AV) but in a reasonable way. There are simply more ways to die as infantry that can't be prevented by skill. Staring from bad spawns up to Orbitals and (to some degree snipers)

this is completely false. Not only are tanks the targets of many orbitals, infantry can simply ignore a strike by standing in an objective or standing next to a wall. Getting sniped is due to ******** positioning or running in an open field, and is in no way something any tanker is going to remotely feel bad for infantry about. What if those snipers were invisible, locked on, and did thousands of damage?

If you have a proto suit, you have been playing dust long enough to know the spawns suck. spawn after the rest of your team so you dont get spawn killed at the start of a match. Bad spawns during a match are the complete fault of the spawner, since you choose where to go.

you say not to complain in the title yet at the end of your paragraph you complained lol