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KING CHECKMATE
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
672
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Posted - 2013.08.29 03:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:If the AV weapon at hand cost as much as a turret, I do not care about the hull costs or my modules, but if your weapons cost nearly as much as the turret then I'd be alot more okay with dying to you (srsly, why is the forge stronger than rails, and the swarms better than missiles?)
King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here!Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here!gbghg wrote:CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia
Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.
Tanks need to be cheaper , thats all. |
KING CHECKMATE
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
675
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 04:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well what i see is this; The price doesnt match the effectiveness nor performance of the tanks.
Here i go:
AV weapons are expensive if you consider the high SP sink you need to get them and how much easier is to take away 1000 EHP of a slow moving heavy than 8000+ of a tank. Heavies end up Dying a LOT more. Ive lost my 150k Adv Dropsuit a lot trying to bring down a single tank. Of course the, price MATCHES the effectiveness of the suit. I can withstand some small arms fire, i can take up to 3 ishikune sniper rifle shots without dying and even take 1-5 tank blaster bullets to the face and survive. My FG is Pretty effective vs tanks and dropships, and 1HKO's all infantry , BUT its not effective at CQ at all , making positioning -+ of the battle.
The tanks , as i've seen them, are good. I've seen tankers destroy teams on their own.BUT if they are to loose the tank the amount of ISK lost is a LOT. I just couldn't believe how much proto turrets cost (i have a Tank ALT). Now im the kind of guy who will always be on infantry's side, since its a FPS i truly believe we deserve priority. BUT i know TANKS,LAVS and DROPSHIPS give the game diversity, and the fact they have customization options give dust something different. I insist no vehicle should be indestructible. Dropships should be destroyed after 2 FGuns or 3 Swarms (Im talking all proto gear here, no DAM RESISTANCE Mods and no regen taken in consideration) Tanks SHOULDNT withstand more than 5 FGuns in ANY situation nor 6 Swarms. LAVs Shouldnt withstand 2 of ANYTHING considering how fast they are....
BUT the price on everything should be reduced so that the player can afford to loose many of them and giving it some play style consistency; As a vehicle player. Overall a good tank should cost around 400000-500000 ISK. Why? It means you can buy a good tank every 2 games in average and if you loose it to PROTO AV , well, better be sneakier next time.... This would bring true balance to Vehicle - aV weapons and even leaving Forge guns as they are vehicle drivers WOULDNT complain so much about loosing their vehicles.....
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KING CHECKMATE
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
676
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 04:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Obodiah Garro wrote:Am all for making swarm launchers cost the same as HAV turrets as soon as they can lock onto infantry and they boost the range so I can hide behind the red line without waiting for **** to come close to me.
Jokes aside, I dont think Isk is the true value of something, OP is talking like the only thing he can shoot is AV runners and its a fair comparison. HAV can do a lot more than a AV runner, hell one is general and the other is specialised, gtfo with this bs. I don't expect AV to be exactly the same price, also as a Proto Forge Gunner, I'm not limited to shooting just Vehicles, you act like I can't go 20/0 in a Forge Gun fit, with no vehicles on the field. What I'm saying is I'd like to see AV alot more expensive, rather than a tiny fraction of the cost of a Turret, but maybe a half, hell even 3/4s of the cost would be nice. Then I'd still be in favour of AV being strong, because it means you cannot rush me 10 times, die and still make a profit, you rush me 5 times and you'll break even, that would be nice. It's only bullshit to you because you fear a crutch being expensive, EVE is about ISK, DUST = EVE Universe, should be about ISK.
King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here!Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here!gbghg wrote:CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia
Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.
AV, specially Forge guns ARE Expensive if you consider the SP/ISK sink to even get the first one...
Just compare how much SP/ISK it would cost you to have a Duvolle AR wtih Proficiency 3 ,and then how much it would cost you to have a Kaalakiota FG with Prof 3?
Then add the fact that us fatties die a LOT more than tanks.Yeah believe it or not.Remember: TAnks can be countered By AV and other tanks/droships. Heavies get killed by everything in the game....
DO NOT INCREASE THE PRICE OF AV, decrease the price of vehicles.... |
KING CHECKMATE
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
689
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 22:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
@ Jason Pearson:
''Sigh. let's work it out. (I have Prof 3 In forge guns)
Ok , lets work it out, but remember i was comparing the SP sink of Forge guns with OTHER skill requirements of OTHER infantry weapons.I never compared them with the SP needed for Turrets.... But ok lets go at it.
Weaponry V = 310,920
Heavy Weapon Operation III = 136,800
Forge Gun Operation V = 621,840
Forge Proficiency III = 342,000
Total SP = 1,411,560
Now, I appreciate that it takes that much SP to use an Officer Forge Gun, but Weaponry to that level gives you the ability to use other weapons, and you don't need Prof 3 to use Proto Forge Guns.
This is correct.BUTwe are talking vs vehicles here. 3% damage is a LOT , and really needed for more effective AV hunting. You will have instead of 1584 on a Proto FG , 1726 dm! just with Prof 3. This is ,instead of 3168, you would be hitting 3453 damage every 2 shots. Thats 285 more damage, and when we talk about vehicles, that can make the difference. If a weapon needs Proficiency, its the Forge gun.
Now, Turrets
Turret Operation III = 68,400 (iirc)
Large Hybrid Turret Operation V = 932,760
Total SP = 1,001,160
So yes, you put more SP in for a Forge Gun, if I added the full Turret Operation skill to level 5, it'd be around 310k SP, bringing us even closer together, and I'd still do less damage than the Forge Gun with a Rail.
Ok then we agree it needs a damage buff then. I can live with that.
Now if we include the cost of Vehicle SP, which is btw, all of my SP apart from my Heavy Suit, HMG, Forge and Swarms then my SP cost far outweighs yours, and you know what? I'm not even finished with my skills yet, I've still gotta max out the core skills, that's quite a few more million SP.
I know that turrets are not just , getting to the turret. They have a LOT more skills and modules that are needed for full efficiency. But thats the disadvantage and the advantage at the same time! Yeah in the END you will end up spending more SP, but you will have a far superior killing machine, with heat sinks, great turret mobility , damage mods,etcetc...AND on a tank with at LEAST 6000+ EHP....Yeah it needs a damage buff, but besides a damage buff and (again) a PRICE REDUCTION,i think tanks are fine.
Like I said before, bringing the cost of AV up and keeping the cost of tanks high means you will not see the best tanks constantly, but you'll be REWARDed for the RISK you took if you succeed, but if my Tank succeeds, the massive RISK I took will REWARD me. (Risk v Reward bro)
Well this is very based on POINTS OF VIEW.I think the best solution would be actually, the other way around. Making both AV and vehicle game style viable, reducing the cost on vehicles and leaving the cost of AV as it is would end up in MORE consistent game style. Making a Tanker , always have enough cash to afford he tank, while making Infantry always being able to counter said tanks. And everybody happy.
First i dont think Forge guns are gonna have a price increase to be honest.
Second, IF THEY DO increase the price on Forge guns and leave the tank prices as ridiculous as they are that breaks the game style of both Tankers and AV. Because even with Proficiency 5, what good is an AV soldier if he cant afford the weapon that the team needs to get rid of a tank? And what good does a tanker do if he cant buy himself a decent tank?
Thats my opinion anyways...
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