DUST Search - I wouldn't QQ about AV

pegasis prime wrote:

Korvin Lomont wrote:

Jason Pearson wrote:

If the AV weapon at hand cost as much as a turret, I do not care about the hull costs or my modules, but if your weapons cost nearly as much as the turret then I'd be alot more okay with dying to you (srsly, why is the forge stronger than rails, and the swarms better than missiles?)

Edit: Adding some numbers for those that want to argue against this. All turrets have the same prices, despite being a blaster, railgun or missile launcher, same with AV it seems.

Large Turrets (Basic Types, no Variants)
Standard: 48,000 ISK
Advanced 145,720 ISK
Prototype 442,400 ISK

Small Turrets: (Basic Types, no Variants)
Standard: 12,000 ISK
Advanced: 36,440 ISK
Prototype: 110,600 ISK

AV (Variants included) (Swarms, Forge Guns, Plasma Cannons)
Standard: 1,500 ISK
Standard Variant: 2,460 ISK
Advanced: 6,585 ISK
Advanced Variant: 10,770 ISK
Prototype: 28,845 ISK
Prototype Variant: 46,220 ISK

One cannot argue that AV matches up to small turrets either, as their advanced weapons don't even meet the cost of a standard turret, the variants of turrets are even more costly and in some cases, are worse than the standard ones!

King of the Forums // Seraphim <3
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gbghg wrote:

CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia

Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.

Well if the would cost the same you would be indestructible as no one with half a mind would use them, you know instead of you "effective against everythin tankers" an AV guy is quite vulnerable to any enemy on the field while you only have to fear dedicated AV or other tanks Roll

Dude I dont know what your talking about no one would use them lol I used to run proto heavy forge when it was over 1 mill for my set up and still make an overall profit. Forge guns are way cheeper than they used to be as are tge heavy suits so forgers have it a bit easyer now as most I know run proto forge allway make a profit.

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Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 59	Posted - 2013.08.29 07:06:00 - [31] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Nemo Bluntz wrote: Its far easier to kill a guy holding a swarm launcher than it is for a guy to kill a tank with turrets. So shut the ** up. How *** wrong you are. Takes one guy to dominate the field with AV, stops any Vehicles coming along, for less than 50k, despite my fit costing 1.3 Million ISK, theres a definite Risk v Reward imbalance here. King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote:** CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step. Av is only good if you have cover and a good view on the field. As soon a AV player is in the line of sight of a tank or open field he is screwed. And swarms are only better at fighting vehicles. You wont get a kill against regular infantry with swarms, missiles however can. And i tell you the reason why Av weapons cost less then turrets from a eve side point: material costs. It would cost more to produce a large turret then producing a small weapon like a swarm launcher or forgegun.
Nemo Bluntz TeamPlayers EoN. 470	Posted - 2013.08.29 07:09:00 - [32] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Nemo Bluntz wrote: Its far easier to kill a guy holding a swarm launcher than it is for a guy to kill a tank with turrets. So shut the ** up. How ***** wrong you are. Takes one guy to dominate the field with AV, stops any Vehicles coming along, for less than 50k, despite my fit costing 1.3 Million ISK, theres a definite Risk v Reward imbalance here. I run AV. Any tank with half a brain always escapes. Its the tanks that feel like they can't be killed that get away scott free. Hell, a God damn shield tank is basically invulnerable to swarms and AV nades. "my fit costs money, so I shouldn't ever die before killing 100 people" is such a silly ******* position.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Auxiliaries 2888	Posted - 2013.08.29 07:15:00 - [33] - Quote Nemo Bluntz wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Nemo Bluntz wrote: Its far easier to kill a guy holding a swarm launcher than it is for a guy to kill a tank with turrets. So shut the ** up. How ***** wrong you are. Takes one guy to dominate the field with AV, stops any Vehicles coming along, for less than 50k, despite my fit costing 1.3 Million ISK, theres a definite Risk v Reward imbalance here. I run AV. Any tank with half a brain always escapes. Its the tanks that feel like they can't be killed that get away scott free. Hell, a God damn shield tank is basically invulnerable to swarms and AV nades. "my fit costs money, so I shouldn't ever die before killing 100 people" is such a silly ***** position. Where the have I said that? I don't support needing a squad to kill me, but I don't expect to be solo'd by something that costs 40k as opposed to my 1mil, It throws Risk v Reward out the window, you die 10 times, and you're not even at half the tanks worth, Make them cost more, and not only do we not have to lower the cost of tanks, so you're still rewarded, but if the Tank survives against AV, he's gonna be rewarded a bit more and when he dies, safe in the knowledge it didn't cost them 40k to kill him. King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote:** CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.
Kekklian Noobatronic Goonfeet Top Men. 321	Posted - 2013.08.29 07:18:00 - [34] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Nemo Bluntz wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Nemo Bluntz wrote: Its far easier to kill a guy holding a swarm launcher than it is for a guy to kill a tank with turrets. So shut the ** up. How ***** wrong you are. Takes one guy to dominate the field with AV, stops any Vehicles coming along, for less than 50k, despite my fit costing 1.3 Million ISK, theres a definite Risk v Reward imbalance here. I run AV. Any tank with half a brain always escapes. Its the tanks that feel like they can't be killed that get away scott free. Hell, a God damn shield tank is basically invulnerable to swarms and AV nades. "my fit costs money, so I shouldn't ever die before killing 100 people" is such a silly ***** position. Where the have I said that? I don't support needing a squad to kill me, but I don't expect to be solo'd by something that costs 40k as opposed to my 1mil, It throws Risk v Reward out the window, you die 10 times, and you're not even at half the tanks worth, Make them cost more, and not only do we not have to lower the cost of tanks, so you're still rewarded, but if the Tank survives against AV, he's gonna be rewarded a bit more and when he dies, safe in the knowledge it didn't cost them 40k to kill him. Let me just hop in this. Excuse me for removing your ****** post-bloat(AKA your "signature"). So if they re-tune tanks, lower their cost to 2x the cost of a Proto Fit(FYI my Proto AV fit is 285K, not 40K), so about 550-600K per proto tank, will you stop b!tching if you get solo'd? Legitimate question - will you stop complaining?
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate 722	Posted - 2013.08.29 07:20:00 - [35] - Quote Yip jason youll remember the days when I ran proto type 2 heavy with a proto forge and used to solo sagies but no one moaned about how op my forge was . I think it might have something to do with the fact my proto forge setup used to cost over 1 mill isk . That was a signifigant investment and also warrented the price simply because of the dammage I could put out . Proto forge with 3 complex dammage mods for the win .
Nemo Bluntz TeamPlayers EoN. 472	Posted - 2013.08.29 07:20:00 - [36] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: I don't support needing a squad to kill me, but I don't expect to be solo'd by something that costs 40k as opposed to my 1mil Today's your lucky day. I'm going to throw you some life changing advice. Don't play like a ******* idiot, and you won't be killed by a guy in a 40k suit. Woah, did you feel that? I did. All of a sudden, you're a better player.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Auxiliaries 2888	Posted - 2013.08.29 07:23:00 - [37] - Quote Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: Let me just hop in this. Excuse me for removing your ****** post-bloat(AKA your "signature"). So if they re-tune tanks, lower their cost to 2x the cost of a Proto Fit(FYI my Proto AV fit is 285K, not 40K), so about 550-600K per proto tank, will you stop b!tching if you get solo'd? Legitimate question - will you stop complaining? I'd continue bitching because I feel that's too cheap. imo a Tank shouldn't be cheap, I am happy to grind 5 matches to get my Tank because sure, it should be a squad weapon, and when it's run in a squad it becomes very good at what it does against solo players. (Teamworking AV wins though.). When I kill a HAV, I know someone worked hard for it, it's a higher risk than your average AR v AR fight, it's more intense because theres stuff to lose, decrease it and it will become boring HAV spam Why is your Proto AV fit so high? My Proto Forge with double damage mods costs me 80k and it's very easy to solo tanks. King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote:** CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Auxiliaries 2888	Posted - 2013.08.29 07:26:00 - [38] - Quote Nemo Bluntz wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: I don't support needing a squad to kill me, but I don't expect to be solo'd by something that costs 40k as opposed to my 1mil Today's your lucky day. I'm going to throw you some life changing advice. Don't play like a ******* idiot, and you won't be killed by a guy in a 40k suit. Woah, did you feel that? I did. All of a sudden, you're a better player. Ask any Tanker here to rate my ability in HAVs and I can assure you it won't be what you're obviously assuming. I'm looking at both sides, I run all Vehicles, I run all AV, it's easy to smash HAVs with a Prototype Forge, yet the Prototype Forge costs less than a SMALL TURRET. Now, before you add something about "Forges not being overpowered" or any other stupid ** I wasn't aiming at, Forges aren't OP to me, what they are though, are too effective for their actual cost. What's even worse it, let's carry on with the Forge, you'd think its counterpart would be the Small Railgun, they're the same size except the rail is mounted. The Forge beats it in everything, and best of yet? it's a fraction of its price. King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote:** CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.
Kekklian Noobatronic Goonfeet Top Men. 321	Posted - 2013.08.29 07:30:00 - [39] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: Let me just hop in this. Excuse me for removing your ******** post-bloat(AKA your "signature"). So if they re-tune tanks, lower their cost to 2x the cost of a Proto Fit(FYI my Proto AV fit is 285K, not 40K), so about 550-600K per proto tank, will you stop b!tching if you get solo'd? Legitimate question - will you stop complaining? I'd continue bitching because I feel that's too cheap. imo a Tank shouldn't be cheap, I am happy to grind 5 matches to get my Tank because sure, it should be a squad weapon, and when it's run in a squad it becomes very good at what it does against solo players. (Teamworking AV wins though.). When I kill a HAV, I know someone worked hard for it, it's a higher risk than your average AR v AR fight, it's more intense because theres stuff to lose, decrease it and it will become boring HAV spam Why is your Proto AV fit so high? My Proto Forge with double damage mods costs me 80k and it's very easy to solo tanks. That's simply an example. I run an ADV suit w/ Proto Forge's that's about half that price, but I also have max fitting skills, so I put high-tier low's and sidearm in. And the Breach is a bit more expensive, because never not Breach. The point is, the real argument here should be where is the break point. Wolfman is talking tiericide for the modules, that's great. What we need to be talking is price. Where is the price point where tank drivers will stop feeling their investments are too expensive to simply be lost. I would much prefer DUST see loads of decently priced tanks on the field at all times, kill-able by AVers but priced to a point where the loss doesn't prohibit calling in more tanks to replace losses. I don't run proto fits because I usually run solo (inactive corp during my times sadly :/ ), but I have 3-4 tiers of fits so I can field what I feel is acceptable to lose. Tanks should be no different. The base hulls should be relatively cheap, with the cost of the armaments and mods determining the end cost. That way, tankers can field tanks appropriate to their comfort and wallet levels, appropriate to how powerful a tank their willing to lose in a match. The current system of pricing is the real enemy here - not AV vs Tankers.
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1141	Posted - 2013.08.29 07:41:00 - [40] - Quote Niccolo deLuce wrote: Fix the fact that swarms don't reliably track yeah, stopped reading after this. you should have at least put that at the end of your post

Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1141	Posted - 2013.08.29 07:43:00 - [41] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Nemo Bluntz wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: I don't support needing a squad to kill me, but I don't expect to be solo'd by something that costs 40k as opposed to my 1mil Today's your lucky day. I'm going to throw you some life changing advice. Don't play like a ******* idiot, and you won't be killed by a guy in a 40k suit. Woah, did you feel that? I did. All of a sudden, you're a better player. Ask any Tanker here to rate my ability in HAVs and I can assure you it won't be what you're obviously assuming. I'm looking at both sides, I run all Vehicles, I run all AV, it's easy to smash HAVs with a Prototype Forge, yet the Prototype Forge costs less than a SMALL TURRET. Now, before you add something about "Forges not being overpowered" or any other stupid ** I wasn't aiming at, Forges aren't OP to me, what they are though, are too effective for their actual cost. What's even worse it, let's carry on with the Forge, you'd think its counterpart would be the Small Railgun, they're the same size except the rail is mounted. The Forge beats it in everything, and best of yet? it's a fraction of its price. King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote:** CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step. No kidding, Jason is quite likely the single worst tanker i have ever come across
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1141	Posted - 2013.08.29 07:44:00 - [42] - Quote noobsniper the 2nd wrote: a good tank costs about 8-9 mill false. unless you like rolling around in a gold leaf covered coffin
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 107	Posted - 2013.08.29 07:55:00 - [43] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: If the AV weapon at hand cost as much as a turret, I do not care about the hull costs or my modules, but if your weapons cost nearly as much as the turret then I'd be alot more okay with dying to you (srsly, why is the forge stronger than rails, and the swarms better than missiles?) Edit: Adding some numbers for those that want to argue against this. All turrets have the same prices, despite being a blaster, railgun or missile launcher, same with AV it seems. Large Turrets (Basic Types, no Variants) Standard: 48,000 ISK Advanced 145,720 ISK Prototype 442,400 ISK Small Turrets: (Basic Types, no Variants) Standard: 12,000 ISK Advanced: 36,440 ISK Prototype: 110,600 ISK AV (Variants included) (Swarms, Forge Guns, Plasma Cannons) Standard: 1,500 ISK Standard Variant: 2,460 ISK Advanced: 6,585 ISK Advanced Variant: 10,770 ISK Prototype: 28,845 ISK Prototype Variant: 46,220 ISK One cannot argue that AV matches up to small turrets either, as their advanced weapons don't even meet the cost of a standard turret, the variants of turrets are even more costly and in some cases, are worse than the standard ones! King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote: CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step. Well if the would cost the same you would be indestructible as no one with half a mind would use them, you know instead of you "effective against everythin tankers" an AV guy is quite vulnerable to any enemy on the field while you only have to fear dedicated AV or other tanks .
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1142	Posted - 2013.08.29 08:13:00 - [44] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Well if the would cost the same you would be indestructible as no one with half a mind would use them, you know instead of you "effective against everythin tankers" an AV guy is quite vulnerable to any enemy on the field while you only have to fear dedicated AV or other tanks . simply false. proto forge guns topping the kill charts is a fact in this current build. i guess being invisible on top of a tower is being vulnerable tho. edit: oh yeah, forgot this >
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate 724	Posted - 2013.08.29 08:13:00 - [45] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: If the AV weapon at hand cost as much as a turret, I do not care about the hull costs or my modules, but if your weapons cost nearly as much as the turret then I'd be alot more okay with dying to you (srsly, why is the forge stronger than rails, and the swarms better than missiles?) Edit: Adding some numbers for those that want to argue against this. All turrets have the same prices, despite being a blaster, railgun or missile launcher, same with AV it seems. Large Turrets (Basic Types, no Variants) Standard: 48,000 ISK Advanced 145,720 ISK Prototype 442,400 ISK Small Turrets: (Basic Types, no Variants) Standard: 12,000 ISK Advanced: 36,440 ISK Prototype: 110,600 ISK AV (Variants included) (Swarms, Forge Guns, Plasma Cannons) Standard: 1,500 ISK Standard Variant: 2,460 ISK Advanced: 6,585 ISK Advanced Variant: 10,770 ISK Prototype: 28,845 ISK Prototype Variant: 46,220 ISK One cannot argue that AV matches up to small turrets either, as their advanced weapons don't even meet the cost of a standard turret, the variants of turrets are even more costly and in some cases, are worse than the standard ones! King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote: CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step. Well if the would cost the same you would be indestructible as no one with half a mind would use them, you know instead of you "effective against everythin tankers" an AV guy is quite vulnerable to any enemy on the field while you only have to fear dedicated AV or other tanks . Dude I dont know what your talking about no one would use them lol I used to run proto heavy forge when it was over 1 mill for my set up and still make an overall profit. Forge guns are way cheeper than they used to be as are tge heavy suits so forgers have it a bit easyer now as most I know run proto forge allway make a profit.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 107	Posted - 2013.08.29 08:28:00 - [46] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: If the AV weapon at hand cost as much as a turret, I do not care about the hull costs or my modules, but if your weapons cost nearly as much as the turret then I'd be alot more okay with dying to you (srsly, why is the forge stronger than rails, and the swarms better than missiles?) Edit: Adding some numbers for those that want to argue against this. All turrets have the same prices, despite being a blaster, railgun or missile launcher, same with AV it seems. Large Turrets (Basic Types, no Variants) Standard: 48,000 ISK Advanced 145,720 ISK Prototype 442,400 ISK Small Turrets: (Basic Types, no Variants) Standard: 12,000 ISK Advanced: 36,440 ISK Prototype: 110,600 ISK AV (Variants included) (Swarms, Forge Guns, Plasma Cannons) Standard: 1,500 ISK Standard Variant: 2,460 ISK Advanced: 6,585 ISK Advanced Variant: 10,770 ISK Prototype: 28,845 ISK Prototype Variant: 46,220 ISK One cannot argue that AV matches up to small turrets either, as their advanced weapons don't even meet the cost of a standard turret, the variants of turrets are even more costly and in some cases, are worse than the standard ones! King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote: CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step. Well if the would cost the same you would be indestructible as no one with half a mind would use them, you know instead of you "effective against everythin tankers" an AV guy is quite vulnerable to any enemy on the field while you only have to fear dedicated AV or other tanks . Dude I dont know what your talking about no one would use them lol I used to run proto heavy forge when it was over 1 mill for my set up and still make an overall profit. Forge guns are way cheeper than they used to be as are tge heavy suits so forgers have it a bit easyer now as most I know run proto forge allway make a profit. Indeed Forge sniping is a problem, but I guess it will solve once the rendering distance issue gets fixed (well if CCP decides to fix it). But Swarms for instance are easy pray for any one on the field and to some degree even Forge Snipers can be dealt with once you get to them. Don't get me wrong I think proto gear should be more expensive (not only proto AV) but in a reasonable way. There are simply more ways to die as infantry that can't be prevented by skill. Staring from bad spawns up to Orbitals and (to some degree snipers)
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1145	Posted - 2013.08.29 08:37:00 - [47] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Don't get me wrong I think proto gear should be more expensive (not only proto AV) but in a reasonable way. There are simply more ways to die as infantry that can't be prevented by skill. Staring from bad spawns up to Orbitals and (to some degree snipers) this is completely false. Not only are tanks the targets of many orbitals, infantry can simply ignore a strike by standing in an objective or standing next to a wall. Getting sniped is due to ******** positioning or running in an open field, and is in no way something any tanker is going to remotely feel bad for infantry about. What if those snipers were invisible, locked on, and did thousands of damage? how many times do infantry take sniper shots before counter sniping? usually they cant be bothered because it would mean putting the MD or AR away, then they come here and expect others to feel bad. If you have a proto suit, you have been playing dust long enough to know the spawns suck. spawn after the rest of your team so you dont get spawn killed at the start of a match. Bad spawns during a match are the complete fault of the spawner, since you choose where to go. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result. I believe that definition applies to each of my points so far.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 109	Posted - 2013.08.29 08:48:00 - [48] - Quote Lurchasaurus wrote: this is completely false. Not only are tanks the targets of many orbitals, infantry can simply ignore a strike by standing in an objective or standing next to a wall. Getting sniped is due to ****** positioning or running in an open field, and is in no way something any tanker is going to remotely feel bad for infantry about. What if those snipers were invisible, locked on, and did thousands of damage? The same is true for tankers they can evade orbitals quite easily and do so. Normally when yu go AV you need open space and good los so a sniper is a natural counter to AV. Lurchasaurus wrote:** If you have a proto suit, you have been playing dust long enough to know the spawns suck. spawn after the rest of your team so you dont get spawn killed at the start of a match. Bad spawns during a match are the complete fault of the spawner, since you choose where to go. No bad spawns are a fault of the gamemechanic because other games do it better. And even waiting till you team spawns does not atutomatically prevents you from spawning in a red blob. Happened to me quite often. Again I believe the pricing for proto is a bit off but Infantry weapons having the same price like tankweapons is and always will be stupid...
KING CHECKMATE Bragian Order Amarr Empire 689	Posted - 2013.08.29 22:33:00 - [49] - Quote @ Jason Pearson: ''Sigh. let's work it out. (I have Prof 3 In forge guns) Ok , lets work it out, but remember i was comparing the SP sink of Forge guns with OTHER skill requirements of OTHER infantry weapons.I never compared them with the SP needed for Turrets.... But ok lets go at it. Weaponry V = 310,920 Heavy Weapon Operation III = 136,800 Forge Gun Operation V = 621,840 Forge Proficiency III = 342,000 Total SP = 1,411,560 Now, I appreciate that it takes that much SP to use an Officer Forge Gun, but Weaponry to that level gives you the ability to use other weapons, and you don't need Prof 3 to use Proto Forge Guns. This is correct.BUTwe are talking vs vehicles here. 3% damage is a LOT , and really needed for more effective AV hunting. You will have instead of 1584 on a Proto FG , 1726 dm! just with Prof 3. This is ,instead of 3168, you would be hitting 3453 damage every 2 shots. Thats 285 more damage, and when we talk about vehicles, that can make the difference. If a weapon needs Proficiency, its the Forge gun. Now, Turrets Turret Operation III = 68,400 (iirc) Large Hybrid Turret Operation V = 932,760 Total SP = 1,001,160 So yes, you put more SP in for a Forge Gun, if I added the full Turret Operation skill to level 5, it'd be around 310k SP, bringing us even closer together, and I'd still do less damage than the Forge Gun with a Rail. Ok then we agree it needs a damage buff then. I can live with that. Now if we include the cost of Vehicle SP, which is btw, all of my SP apart from my Heavy Suit, HMG, Forge and Swarms then my SP cost far outweighs yours, and you know what? I'm not even finished with my skills yet, I've still gotta max out the core skills, that's quite a few more million SP. I know that turrets are not just , getting to the turret. They have a LOT more skills and modules that are needed for full efficiency. But thats the disadvantage and the advantage at the same time! Yeah in the END you will end up spending more SP, but you will have a far superior killing machine, with heat sinks, great turret mobility , damage mods,etcetc...AND on a tank with at LEAST 6000+ EHP....Yeah it needs a damage buff, but besides a damage buff and (again) a PRICE REDUCTION,i think tanks are fine. Like I said before, bringing the cost of AV up and keeping the cost of tanks high means you will not see the best tanks constantly, but you'll be REWARDed for the RISK you took if you succeed, but if my Tank succeeds, the massive RISK I took will REWARD me. (Risk v Reward bro) Well this is very based on POINTS OF VIEW.I think the best solution would be actually, the other way around. Making both AV and vehicle game style viable, reducing the cost on vehicles and leaving the cost of AV as it is would end up in MORE consistent game style. Making a Tanker , always have enough cash to afford he tank, while making Infantry always being able to counter said tanks. And everybody happy. First i dont think Forge guns are gonna have a price increase to be honest. Second, IF THEY DO increase the price on Forge guns and leave the tank prices as ridiculous as they are that breaks the game style of both Tankers and AV. Because even with Proficiency 5, what good is an AV soldier if he cant afford the weapon that the team needs to get rid of a tank? And what good does a tanker do if he cant buy himself a decent tank? Thats my opinion anyways...
Robocop Junior The Surrogates Of War 286	Posted - 2013.08.29 22:48:00 - [50] - Quote How much does it cost to recall a tank again? Nothing? Well it should cost something. Maybe 1,000 isk per meter behind the redline. Is David Copperfield in charge of vehicle recalling? Can I recall my dropsuit? Sure if the tank hasn't destroyed the resupply lol. Also heavies and FGing are two of the easiest things in this easiest of games. I thought FGing was easy until I hit 2 million SP on my alt OMFG Assault FGs I love you:D Make tanks really cheap but increase turret costs :D

Pandora Mars Afterlife Overseers 248	Posted - 2013.08.29 23:03:00 - [51] - Quote I was ready to disagree at the title, but after reading the whole post I kinda agree... Forge Gunners still need to show up at HAV drivers, though, the crappy render is not an excuse.
Mobius Wyvern Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 3379	Posted - 2013.08.29 23:16:00 - [52] - Quote Void Echo wrote: you say not to complain in the title yet at the end of your paragraph you complained lol That's why his post started with an "If" statement. Learn to read.


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