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I wouldn't QQ about AV

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Jason Pearson Seraphim Auxiliaries 2882	Posted - 2013.08.29 03:20:00 - [1] - Quote If the AV weapon at hand cost as much as a turret, I do not care about the hull costs or my modules, but if your weapons cost nearly as much as the turret then I'd be alot more okay with dying to you (srsly, why is the forge stronger than rails, and the swarms better than missiles?) King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote: CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.
Void Echo Echo Galactic Industries 1099	Posted - 2013.08.29 03:27:00 - [2] - Quote you say not to complain in the title yet at the end of your paragraph you complained lol
KING CHECKMATE Bragian Order Amarr Empire 672	Posted - 2013.08.29 03:28:00 - [3] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: If the AV weapon at hand cost as much as a turret, I do not care about the hull costs or my modules, but if your weapons cost nearly as much as the turret then I'd be alot more okay with dying to you (srsly, why is the forge stronger than rails, and the swarms better than missiles?) King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote: CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step. Tanks need to be cheaper , thats all.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Auxiliaries 2885	Posted - 2013.08.29 03:38:00 - [4] - Quote Void Echo wrote: you say not to complain in the title yet at the end of your paragraph you complained lol I wouldn't complain IF AV weapons cost as much as turrets, but they do not ;) lern2english American. <3 King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote: CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.
Xender17 Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 501	Posted - 2013.08.29 03:40:00 - [5] - Quote When i read the shortcut paragraph i though you were saying AV weapons DO cost as much. i know. But yeah soloing a tank with something 20x less is lame.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Auxiliaries 2885	Posted - 2013.08.29 03:48:00 - [6] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: If the AV weapon at hand cost as much as a turret, I do not care about the hull costs or my modules, but if your weapons cost nearly as much as the turret then I'd be alot more okay with dying to you (srsly, why is the forge stronger than rails, and the swarms better than missiles?) King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote: CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step. Tanks need to be cheaper , thats all. No, that's the problem. When you kill a tank, there needs to be a sort of "Oh ** yes, I just cost that guy a shitton of money trolololol" feeling, and the way the reward system is (everything you destroy counts towards your total payout) making them any cheaper would be an insult to AVers. But, if AV cost as much as the default turret of each level (It's 48,000 for standard, 145,720 for Advanced and 442,400 for Prototype, and that's the plain variants, for a Compressed at Prototype it's 927,560) then perhaps there would be no need to whine, I'd personally be fine with a single Proto AVer tanking me out, because he's risked it. Oh and for numbers because of the reason why we whine.. Prototype Swarm (Wiyrkomi) 28,845 ISK Prototype Forge (Kaalakiota) 28,845 ISK They go up to 47,220 ISK for the other variants, proto AV doesn't even cost as much as a STANDARD turret, even prototype small turrets cost 110,600 ISK oh and one more. Prototype Packed AV Grenades, 23,610 ISK, lol. King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote:** CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder. 114	Posted - 2013.08.29 03:53:00 - [7] - Quote Yup, forge guns don't more damage, and have a better rendering distance than large railgun tanks. All for 1/3 of the cost. CCP doesn't math much.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Auxiliaries 2887	Posted - 2013.08.29 03:58:00 - [8] - Quote Edited post and added prices, bumping the prices would fix quite a bit and would also help curb the forge guns use as an Anti Infantry weapon (Or atleast there would be an even bigger bounty on their heads, I mean, a proto heavy running a proto forge gun costing 442k, for the gun alone? Who wouldn't want to snipe the bastard?) King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote: CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1134	Posted - 2013.08.29 04:04:00 - [9] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: If the AV weapon at hand cost as much as a turret, I do not care about the hull costs or my modules, but if your weapons cost nearly as much as the turret then I'd be alot more okay with dying to you (srsly, why is the forge stronger than rails, and the swarms better than missiles?) King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote: CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step. Tanks need to be cheaper , thats all. for their current effectiveness, yes. King, for once.....you are right.
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 158	Posted - 2013.08.29 04:07:00 - [10] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: If the AV weapon at hand cost as much as a turret, I do not care about the hull costs or my modules, but if your weapons cost nearly as much as the turret then I'd be alot more okay with dying to you (srsly, why is the forge stronger than rails, and the swarms better than missiles?) Edit: Adding some numbers for those that want to argue against this. All turrets have the same prices, despite being a blaster, railgun or missile launcher, same with AV it seems. Large Turrets (Basic Types, no Variants) Standard: 48,000 ISK Advanced 145,720 ISK Prototype 442,400 ISK Small Turrets: (Basic Types, no Variants) Standard: 12,000 ISK Advanced: 36,440 ISK Prototype: 110,600 ISK AV (Variants included) (Swarms, Forge Guns, Plasma Cannons) Standard: 1,500 ISK Standard Variant: 2,460 ISK Advanced: 6,585 ISK Advanced Variant: 10,770 ISK Prototype: 28,845 ISK Prototype Variant: 46,220 ISK One cannot argue that AV matches up to small turrets either, as their advanced weapons don't even meet the cost of a standard turret, the variants of turrets are even more costly and in some cases, are worse than the standard ones! King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote: CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step. this x1000 ridiculous that the proto AFG does 126 less damage than my proto compressed railgun. On top of that he can see me while I can't see him. A big part of EVE is risk Vs. reward, thats the imbalance here. Even if I kill him I get a pittance because he's not risking any real isk.

Jason Pearson Seraphim Auxiliaries 2888	Posted - 2013.08.29 04:08:00 - [11] - Quote Lurchasaurus wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: If the AV weapon at hand cost as much as a turret, I do not care about the hull costs or my modules, but if your weapons cost nearly as much as the turret then I'd be alot more okay with dying to you (srsly, why is the forge stronger than rails, and the swarms better than missiles?) King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote: CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step. Tanks need to be cheaper , thats all. for their current effectiveness, yes. King, for once.....you are right. After talking with you about the ISK based gameplay, I wouldn't even mind if tank costs stayed the same, let there be real value and real losses when we lose vehicles, but let AV feel the same way, no? (Edit: Tanks Costs staying the same, not tanks staying the same, **.) King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote:** CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1134	Posted - 2013.08.29 04:09:00 - [12] - Quote Henchmen21 wrote: this x1000 ridiculous that the proto AFG does 126 less damage than my proto compressed railgun. On top of that he can see me while I can't see him. A big part of EVE is risk Vs. reward, thats the imbalance here. Even if I kill him I get a pittance because he's not risking any real isk. And this is one of the fundamental problems vehicle users have with AV. This is logic that even the most trollish AV user cant argue. This is a problem. This needs to be copied and made into its own thread, stickied, covered in maple syrup, and given tender lovins
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 521	Posted - 2013.08.29 04:16:00 - [13] - Quote Lurchasaurus wrote: Henchmen21 wrote: this x1000 ridiculous that the proto AFG does 126 less damage than my proto compressed railgun. On top of that he can see me while I can't see him. A big part of EVE is risk Vs. reward, thats the imbalance here. Even if I kill him I get a pittance because he's not risking any real isk. And this is one of the fundamental problems vehicle users have with AV. This is logic that even the most trollish AV user cant argue. This is a problem. This needs to be copied and made into its own thread, stickied, covered in maple syrup, and given tender lovins But they'll make excuses for it.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Auxiliaries 2888	Posted - 2013.08.29 04:23:00 - [14] - Quote AVers, I'm waiting.. Atleast some kind of defense as to why AV should remain so cheap would be nice, kind of makes me sad at a lack of "NO WE'RE FINE AND BALANCED." :( King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote: CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard General Tso's Alliance 262	Posted - 2013.08.29 04:26:00 - [15] - Quote Am all for making swarm launchers cost the same as HAV turrets as soon as they can lock onto infantry and they boost the range so I can hide behind the red line without waiting for **** to come close to me. Jokes aside, I dont think Isk is the true value of something, OP is talking like the only thing he can shoot is AV runners and its a fair comparison. HAV can do a lot more than a AV runner, hell one is general and the other is specialised, gtfo with this bs.
KING CHECKMATE Bragian Order Amarr Empire 675	Posted - 2013.08.29 04:27:00 - [16] - Quote Well what i see is this; The price doesnt match the effectiveness nor performance of the tanks. Here i go: AV weapons are expensive if you consider the high SP sink you need to get them and how much easier is to take away 1000 EHP of a slow moving heavy than 8000+ of a tank. Heavies end up Dying a LOT more. Ive lost my 150k Adv Dropsuit a lot trying to bring down a single tank. Of course the, price MATCHES the effectiveness of the suit. I can withstand some small arms fire, i can take up to 3 ishikune sniper rifle shots without dying and even take 1-5 tank blaster bullets to the face and survive. My FG is Pretty effective vs tanks and dropships, and 1HKO's all infantry , BUT its not effective at CQ at all , making positioning -+ of the battle. The tanks , as i've seen them, are good. I've seen tankers destroy teams on their own.BUT if they are to loose the tank the amount of ISK lost is a LOT. I just couldn't believe how much proto turrets cost (i have a Tank ALT). Now im the kind of guy who will always be on infantry's side, since its a FPS i truly believe we deserve priority. BUT i know TANKS,LAVS and DROPSHIPS give the game diversity, and the fact they have customization options give dust something different. I insist no vehicle should be indestructible. Dropships should be destroyed after 2 FGuns or 3 Swarms (Im talking all proto gear here, no DAM RESISTANCE Mods and no regen taken in consideration) Tanks SHOULDNT withstand more than 5 FGuns in ANY situation nor 6 Swarms. LAVs Shouldnt withstand 2 of ANYTHING considering how fast they are.... BUT the price on everything should be reduced so that the player can afford to loose many of them and giving it some play style consistency; As a vehicle player. Overall a good tank should cost around 400000-500000 ISK. Why? It means you can buy a good tank every 2 games in average and if you loose it to PROTO AV , well, better be sneakier next time.... This would bring true balance to Vehicle - aV weapons and even leaving Forge guns as they are vehicle drivers WOULDNT complain so much about loosing their vehicles.....
Jason Pearson Seraphim Auxiliaries 2888	Posted - 2013.08.29 04:32:00 - [17] - Quote Obodiah Garro wrote: Am all for making swarm launchers cost the same as HAV turrets as soon as they can lock onto infantry and they boost the range so I can hide behind the red line without waiting for ** to come close to me. Jokes aside, I dont think Isk is the true value of something, OP is talking like the only thing he can shoot is AV runners and its a fair comparison. HAV can do a lot more than a AV runner, hell one is general and the other is specialised, gtfo with this bs. I don't expect AV to be exactly the same price, also as a Proto Forge Gunner, I'm not limited to shooting just Vehicles, you act like I can't go 20/0 in a Forge Gun fit, with no vehicles on the field. What I'm saying is I'd like to see AV alot more expensive, rather than a tiny fraction of the cost of a Turret, but maybe a half, hell even 3/4s of the cost would be nice. Then I'd still be in favour of AV being strong, because it means you cannot rush me 10 times, die and still make a profit, you rush me 5 times and you'll break even, that would be nice. It's only bullshit to you because you fear a crutch being expensive, EVE is about ISK, DUST = EVE Universe, should be about ISK. King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote:** CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard General Tso's Alliance 263	Posted - 2013.08.29 04:40:00 - [18] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: It's only bullshit to you because you fear a crutch being expensive, EVE is about ISK, DUST = EVE Universe, should be about ISK. I was under the impression HAV are already expensive. In any case rushing and dieing 10 times in PRO gear doesnt make a profit either. As for FG, I wouldnt know I never use them, with SL I dont tend to get many kills unless my pistol skills are particularly frosty. HAV, with no AV around tend to get kills np, even the sniper HAV do well whelping Bolas out the sky. HAV pilots who know what they are doing tend to get a lot of kills even with AV on the field. Your reasoning for increasing the price of AV gear in general is flawed. Everything needs to be evaluated on its own merit, 1 SL can do so much, but 1 HAV can do so much more.
KING CHECKMATE Bragian Order Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2013.08.29 04:42:00 - [19] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Obodiah Garro wrote: Am all for making swarm launchers cost the same as HAV turrets as soon as they can lock onto infantry and they boost the range so I can hide behind the red line without waiting for ** to come close to me. Jokes aside, I dont think Isk is the true value of something, OP is talking like the only thing he can shoot is AV runners and its a fair comparison. HAV can do a lot more than a AV runner, hell one is general and the other is specialised, gtfo with this bs. I don't expect AV to be exactly the same price, also as a Proto Forge Gunner, I'm not limited to shooting just Vehicles, you act like I can't go 20/0 in a Forge Gun fit, with no vehicles on the field. What I'm saying is I'd like to see AV alot more expensive, rather than a tiny fraction of the cost of a Turret, but maybe a half, hell even 3/4s of the cost would be nice. Then I'd still be in favour of AV being strong, because it means you cannot rush me 10 times, die and still make a profit, you rush me 5 times and you'll break even, that would be nice. It's only bullshit to you because you fear a crutch being expensive, EVE is about ISK, DUST = EVE Universe, should be about ISK. King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote:** CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step. AV, specially Forge guns ARE Expensive if you consider the SP/ISK sink to even get the first one... Just compare how much SP/ISK it would cost you to have a Duvolle AR wtih Proficiency 3 ,and then how much it would cost you to have a Kaalakiota FG with Prof 3? Then add the fact that us fatties die a LOT more than tanks.Yeah believe it or not.Remember: TAnks can be countered By AV and other tanks/droships. Heavies get killed by everything in the game.... DO NOT INCREASE THE PRICE OF AV, decrease the price of vehicles....
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 522	Posted - 2013.08.29 04:45:00 - [20] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Obodiah Garro wrote: Am all for making swarm launchers cost the same as HAV turrets as soon as they can lock onto infantry and they boost the range so I can hide behind the red line without waiting for ** to come close to me. Jokes aside, I dont think Isk is the true value of something, OP is talking like the only thing he can shoot is AV runners and its a fair comparison. HAV can do a lot more than a AV runner, hell one is general and the other is specialised, gtfo with this bs. I don't expect AV to be exactly the same price, also as a Proto Forge Gunner, I'm not limited to shooting just Vehicles, you act like I can't go 20/0 in a Forge Gun fit, with no vehicles on the field. What I'm saying is I'd like to see AV alot more expensive, rather than a tiny fraction of the cost of a Turret, but maybe a half, hell even 3/4s of the cost would be nice. Then I'd still be in favour of AV being strong, because it means you cannot rush me 10 times, die and still make a profit, you rush me 5 times and you'll break even, that would be nice. It's only bullshit to you because you fear a crutch being expensive, EVE is about ISK, DUST = EVE Universe, should be about ISK. King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote:** CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step. AV, specially Forge guns ARE Expensive if you consider the SP/ISK sink to even get the first one... Just compare how much SP/ISK it would cost you to have a Duvolle AR wtih Proficiency 3 ,and then how much it would cost you to have a Kaalakiota FG with Prof 3? Then add the fact that us fatties die a LOT more than tanks.Yeah believe it or not.Remember: TAnks can be countered By AV and other tanks/droships. Heavies get killed by everything in the game.... DO NOT INCREASE THE PRICE OF AV, decrease the price of vehicles.... LOL Wiyrkomi Forge costs less than my 180mm polycrystalline plate. Why is that?

Charlotte O'Dell 0uter.Heaven 1229	Posted - 2013.08.29 04:47:00 - [21] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: If the AV weapon at hand cost as much as a turret, I do not care about the hull costs or my modules, but if your weapons cost nearly as much as the turret then I'd be alot more okay with dying to you (srsly, why is the forge stronger than rails, and the swarms better than missiles?) King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote: CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step. Tanks need to be cheaper , thats all. In their current state, they shouldnt be more expensive than a dropsuit. I can go 15/0 just as easy in a callogi as in a tank.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 522	Posted - 2013.08.29 04:51:00 - [22] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: If the AV weapon at hand cost as much as a turret, I do not care about the hull costs or my modules, but if your weapons cost nearly as much as the turret then I'd be alot more okay with dying to you (srsly, why is the forge stronger than rails, and the swarms better than missiles?) King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote: CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step. Tanks need to be cheaper , thats all. In their current state, they shouldnt be more expensive than a dropsuit. I can go 15/0 just as easy in a callogi as in a tank. Intelligence is OP, not 6753 armor.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Auxiliaries 2888	Posted - 2013.08.29 04:57:00 - [23] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Obodiah Garro wrote: Am all for making swarm launchers cost the same as HAV turrets as soon as they can lock onto infantry and they boost the range so I can hide behind the red line without waiting for ** to come close to me. Jokes aside, I dont think Isk is the true value of something, OP is talking like the only thing he can shoot is AV runners and its a fair comparison. HAV can do a lot more than a AV runner, hell one is general and the other is specialised, gtfo with this bs. I don't expect AV to be exactly the same price, also as a Proto Forge Gunner, I'm not limited to shooting just Vehicles, you act like I can't go 20/0 in a Forge Gun fit, with no vehicles on the field. What I'm saying is I'd like to see AV alot more expensive, rather than a tiny fraction of the cost of a Turret, but maybe a half, hell even 3/4s of the cost would be nice. Then I'd still be in favour of AV being strong, because it means you cannot rush me 10 times, die and still make a profit, you rush me 5 times and you'll break even, that would be nice. It's only bullshit to you because you fear a crutch being expensive, EVE is about ISK, DUST = EVE Universe, should be about ISK. King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote: CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step. AV, specially Forge guns ARE Expensive if you consider the SP/ISK sink to even get the first one... Just compare how much SP/ISK it would cost you to have a Duvolle AR wtih Proficiency 3 ,and then how much it would cost you to have a Kaalakiota FG with Prof 3? Then add the fact that us fatties die a LOT more than tanks.Yeah believe it or not.Remember: TAnks can be countered By AV and other tanks/droships. Heavies get killed by everything in the game.... DO NOT INCREASE THE PRICE OF AV, decrease the price of vehicles.... Sigh. let's work it out. (I have Prof 3 In forge guns) Weaponry V = 310,920 Heavy Weapon Operation III = 136,800 Forge Gun Operation V = 621,840 Forge Proficiency III = 342,000 Total SP = 1,411,560 Now, I appreciate that it takes that much SP to use an Officer Forge Gun, but Weaponry to that level gives you the ability to use other weapons, and you don't need Prof 3 to use Proto Forge Guns. Now, Turrets Turret Operation III = 68,400 (iirc) Large Hybrid Turret Operation V = 932,760 Total SP = 1,001,160 So yes, you put more SP in for a Forge Gun, if I added the full Turret Operation skill to level 5, it'd be around 310k SP, bringing us even closer together, and I'd still do less damage than the Forge Gun with a Rail. Now if we include the cost of Vehicle SP, which is btw, all of my SP apart from my Heavy Suit, HMG, Forge and Swarms then my SP cost far outweighs yours, and you know what? I'm not even finished with my skills yet, I've still gotta max out the core skills, that's quite a few more million SP. Like I said before, bringing the cost of AV up and keeping the cost of tanks high means you will not see the best tanks constantly, but you'll be REWARDed for the RISK you took if you succeed, but if my Tank succeeds, the massive RISK I took will REWARD me. (Risk v Reward bro) King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote:** CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.
Niccolo deLuce The Vanguardians 21	Posted - 2013.08.29 05:30:00 - [24] - Quote Fix the rendering issues, then the physics issues, then evaluate everything else. Fix the fact that swarms don't reliably track, either make them curve to intercept or fly to the original location then turn and burn (right now it's unpredictable as to which you'll get). Fix swarms not actually ranging 400, Installations/Vehicles at 370~ aren't hit except for rare occasions where they chase vehicles slightly beyond the range. Fix the phantom shots in tanks that still cost heat damage but don't actually fire any rounds. Fix the swarm launcher being unable to even attempt a target lock (which happens every game). My issues are biased towards swarm problems, as I only have a militia FG and don't use it often. The only problems I run into with my tanker alt are the bogus charge ups with no shots, and the lack of rendering. Tweaking things now just treats the symptoms and continues the cycle of screwing everything up. Fix the consistency problems, and consider dropping the vehicle prices until things work like they're supposed to. Vehicles should always be more expensive, albeit not necessarily as much as they are now. Inside you're either immune (tanks) or greatly protected (LAVs) to/from anything other than AV. If I'm playing any class and run into a FG they usually last between 1-3 seconds against my Duv / Six Kin, or 2 charged / 3 Kaal Tac sniper shots. Grenadiers are the only AV that can compete evenly against other infantry, and realistically you shouldn't be bringing a tank into grenade range in the first place, much less plowing into the center of enemy squads like most tankers try to do.
noobsniper the 2nd The Corporate Raiders 42	Posted - 2013.08.29 06:42:00 - [25] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Obodiah Garro wrote: Am all for making swarm launchers cost the same as HAV turrets as soon as they can lock onto infantry and they boost the range so I can hide behind the red line without waiting for ** to come close to me. Jokes aside, I dont think Isk is the true value of something, OP is talking like the only thing he can shoot is AV runners and its a fair comparison. HAV can do a lot more than a AV runner, hell one is general and the other is specialised, gtfo with this bs. I don't expect AV to be exactly the same price, also as a Proto Forge Gunner, I'm not limited to shooting just Vehicles, you act like I can't go 20/0 in a Forge Gun fit, with no vehicles on the field. What I'm saying is I'd like to see AV alot more expensive, rather than a tiny fraction of the cost of a Turret, but maybe a half, hell even 3/4s of the cost would be nice. Then I'd still be in favour of AV being strong, because it means you cannot rush me 10 times, die and still make a profit, you rush me 5 times and you'll break even, that would be nice. It's only bullshit to you because you fear a crutch being expensive, EVE is about ISK, DUST = EVE Universe, should be about ISK. King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote: CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step. AV, specially Forge guns ARE Expensive if you consider the SP/ISK sink to even get the first one... Just compare how much SP/ISK it would cost you to have a Duvolle AR wtih Proficiency 3 ,and then how much it would cost you to have a Kaalakiota FG with Prof 3? Then add the fact that us fatties die a LOT more than tanks.Yeah believe it or not.Remember: TAnks can be countered By AV and other tanks/droships. Heavies get killed by everything in the game.... DO NOT INCREASE THE PRICE OF AV, decrease the price of vehicles.... a good tank costs about 8-9 mill sp your point is flawed but yes tanks should be cheeper ** my turret costs more then the tank its self dafuqs with that?!?
Nemo Bluntz TeamPlayers EoN. 470	Posted - 2013.08.29 06:47:00 - [26] - Quote Its far easier to kill a guy holding a swarm launcher than it is for a guy to kill a tank with turrets. So shut the **** up.
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1140	Posted - 2013.08.29 06:49:00 - [27] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: After talking with you about the ISK based gameplay, I wouldn't even mind if tank costs stayed the same, let there be real value and real losses when we lose vehicles, but let AV feel the same way, no? (Edit: Tanks Costs staying the same, not tanks staying the same, ****.) Correct. risk vs. reward is not balanced.
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1140	Posted - 2013.08.29 06:52:00 - [28] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Well what i see is this; The price doesnt match the effectiveness nor performance of the tanks. Here i go: AV weapons are expensive if you consider the high SP sink you need to get them and how much easier is to take away 1000 EHP of a slow moving heavy than 8000+ of a tank. Heavies end up Dying a LOT more. Ive lost my 150k Adv Dropsuit a lot trying to bring down a single tank. Of course the, price MATCHES the effectiveness of the suit. I can withstand some small arms fire, i can take up to 3 ishikune sniper rifle shots without dying and even take 1-5 tank blaster bullets to the face and survive. My FG is Pretty effective vs tanks and dropships, and 1HKO's all infantry , BUT its not effective at CQ at all , making positioning -+ of the battle. The tanks , as i've seen them, are good. I've seen tankers destroy teams on their own.BUT if they are to loose the tank the amount of ISK lost is a LOT. I just couldn't believe how much proto turrets cost (i have a Tank ALT). Now im the kind of guy who will always be on infantry's side, since its a FPS i truly believe we deserve priority. BUT i know TANKS,LAVS and DROPSHIPS give the game diversity, and the fact they have customization options give dust something different. I insist no vehicle should be indestructible. Dropships should be destroyed after 2 FGuns or 3 Swarms (Im talking all proto gear here, no DAM RESISTANCE Mods and no regen taken in consideration) Tanks SHOULDNT withstand more than 5 FGuns in ANY situation nor 6 Swarms. LAVs Shouldnt withstand 2 of ANYTHING considering how fast they are.... BUT the price on everything should be reduced so that the player can afford to loose many of them and giving it some play style consistency; As a vehicle player. Overall a good tank should cost around 400000-500000 ISK. Why? It means you can buy a good tank every 2 games in average and if you loose it to PROTO AV , well, better be sneakier next time.... This would bring true balance to Vehicle - aV weapons and even leaving Forge guns as they are vehicle drivers WOULDNT complain so much about loosing their vehicles..... ''And this is one of the fundamental problems vehicle users have with AV. This is logic that even the most trollish AV user cant argue. This is a problem.'' Yeah, i agree. But the problem is pricing i think. high sp sink? is that why every single suit in the game can equip 7k damage worth of av nades for 15k isk and a x4 multiplier? oh yeah, they home in too. oh yeah, so do swarms.
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1140	Posted - 2013.08.29 06:56:00 - [29] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Obodiah Garro wrote: Am all for making swarm launchers cost the same as HAV turrets as soon as they can lock onto infantry and they boost the range so I can hide behind the red line without waiting for ** to come close to me. Jokes aside, I dont think Isk is the true value of something, OP is talking like the only thing he can shoot is AV runners and its a fair comparison. HAV can do a lot more than a AV runner, hell one is general and the other is specialised, gtfo with this bs. I don't expect AV to be exactly the same price, also as a Proto Forge Gunner, I'm not limited to shooting just Vehicles, you act like I can't go 20/0 in a Forge Gun fit, with no vehicles on the field. What I'm saying is I'd like to see AV alot more expensive, rather than a tiny fraction of the cost of a Turret, but maybe a half, hell even 3/4s of the cost would be nice. Then I'd still be in favour of AV being strong, because it means you cannot rush me 10 times, die and still make a profit, you rush me 5 times and you'll break even, that would be nice. It's only bullshit to you because you fear a crutch being expensive, EVE is about ISK, DUST = EVE Universe, should be about ISK. King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote:** CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step. AV, specially Forge guns ARE Expensive if you consider the SP/ISK sink to even get the first one... Just compare how much SP/ISK it would cost you to have a Duvolle AR wtih Proficiency 3 ,and then how much it would cost you to have a Kaalakiota FG with Prof 3? Then add the fact that us fatties die a LOT more than tanks.Yeah believe it or not.Remember: TAnks can be countered By AV and other tanks/droships. Heavies get killed by everything in the game.... DO NOT INCREASE THE PRICE OF AV, decrease the price of vehicles.... why do you keep telling yourself forges and ar's are a high sp/isk sink? is it the fact that i can buy 50 forge guns for the price of one tank? how about the fact we have to spec into LAVs just to be able to start putting points into HAVs?
Jason Pearson Seraphim Auxiliaries 2888	Posted - 2013.08.29 07:02:00 - [30] - Quote Nemo Bluntz wrote: Its far easier to kill a guy holding a swarm launcher than it is for a guy to kill a tank with turrets. So shut the ** up. How *** wrong you are. Takes one guy to dominate the field with AV, stops any Vehicles coming along, for less than 50k, despite my fit costing 1.3 Million ISK, theres a definite Risk v Reward imbalance here. King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote:** CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.



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