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Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
1134
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Posted - 2013.08.29 04:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:If the AV weapon at hand cost as much as a turret, I do not care about the hull costs or my modules, but if your weapons cost nearly as much as the turret then I'd be alot more okay with dying to you (srsly, why is the forge stronger than rails, and the swarms better than missiles?)
King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here!Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here!gbghg wrote:CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia
Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step. Tanks need to be cheaper , thats all.
for their current effectiveness, yes. King, for once.....you are right. |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
1134
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Posted - 2013.08.29 04:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Henchmen21 wrote:this x1000 ridiculous that the proto AFG does 126 less damage than my proto compressed railgun. On top of that he can see me while I can't see him. A big part of EVE is risk Vs. reward, thats the imbalance here. Even if I kill him I get a pittance because he's not risking any real isk.
And this is one of the fundamental problems vehicle users have with AV. This is logic that even the most trollish AV user cant argue. This is a problem.
This needs to be copied and made into its own thread, stickied, covered in maple syrup, and given tender lovins |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
1140
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Posted - 2013.08.29 06:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:After talking with you about the ISK based gameplay, I wouldn't even mind if tank costs stayed the same, let there be real value and real losses when we lose vehicles, but let AV feel the same way, no?
(Edit: Tanks Costs staying the same, not tanks staying the same, ****.)
Correct. risk vs. reward is not balanced. |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
1140
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Posted - 2013.08.29 06:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Well what i see is this; The price doesnt match the effectiveness nor performance of the tanks.
Here i go:
AV weapons are expensive if you consider the high SP sink you need to get them and how much easier is to take away 1000 EHP of a slow moving heavy than 8000+ of a tank. Heavies end up Dying a LOT more. Ive lost my 150k Adv Dropsuit a lot trying to bring down a single tank. Of course the, price MATCHES the effectiveness of the suit. I can withstand some small arms fire, i can take up to 3 ishikune sniper rifle shots without dying and even take 1-5 tank blaster bullets to the face and survive. My FG is Pretty effective vs tanks and dropships, and 1HKO's all infantry , BUT its not effective at CQ at all , making positioning -+ of the battle.
The tanks , as i've seen them, are good. I've seen tankers destroy teams on their own.BUT if they are to loose the tank the amount of ISK lost is a LOT. I just couldn't believe how much proto turrets cost (i have a Tank ALT). Now im the kind of guy who will always be on infantry's side, since its a FPS i truly believe we deserve priority. BUT i know TANKS,LAVS and DROPSHIPS give the game diversity, and the fact they have customization options give dust something different. I insist no vehicle should be indestructible. Dropships should be destroyed after 2 FGuns or 3 Swarms (Im talking all proto gear here, no DAM RESISTANCE Mods and no regen taken in consideration) Tanks SHOULDNT withstand more than 5 FGuns in ANY situation nor 6 Swarms. LAVs Shouldnt withstand 2 of ANYTHING considering how fast they are....
BUT the price on everything should be reduced so that the player can afford to loose many of them and giving it some play style consistency; As a vehicle player. Overall a good tank should cost around 400000-500000 ISK. Why? It means you can buy a good tank every 2 games in average and if you loose it to PROTO AV , well, better be sneakier next time.... This would bring true balance to Vehicle - aV weapons and even leaving Forge guns as they are vehicle drivers WOULDNT complain so much about loosing their vehicles.....
''And this is one of the fundamental problems vehicle users have with AV. This is logic that even the most trollish AV user cant argue. This is a problem.''
Yeah, i agree. But the problem is pricing i think.
high sp sink? is that why every single suit in the game can equip 7k damage worth of av nades for 15k isk and a x4 multiplier? oh yeah, they home in too. oh yeah, so do swarms. |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
1140
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Posted - 2013.08.29 06:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Obodiah Garro wrote:Am all for making swarm launchers cost the same as HAV turrets as soon as they can lock onto infantry and they boost the range so I can hide behind the red line without waiting for **** to come close to me.
Jokes aside, I dont think Isk is the true value of something, OP is talking like the only thing he can shoot is AV runners and its a fair comparison. HAV can do a lot more than a AV runner, hell one is general and the other is specialised, gtfo with this bs. I don't expect AV to be exactly the same price, also as a Proto Forge Gunner, I'm not limited to shooting just Vehicles, you act like I can't go 20/0 in a Forge Gun fit, with no vehicles on the field. What I'm saying is I'd like to see AV alot more expensive, rather than a tiny fraction of the cost of a Turret, but maybe a half, hell even 3/4s of the cost would be nice. Then I'd still be in favour of AV being strong, because it means you cannot rush me 10 times, die and still make a profit, you rush me 5 times and you'll break even, that would be nice. It's only bullshit to you because you fear a crutch being expensive, EVE is about ISK, DUST = EVE Universe, should be about ISK.
King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here!Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here!gbghg wrote:CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia
Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step. AV, specially Forge guns ARE Expensive if you consider the SP/ISK sink to even get the first one... Just compare how much SP/ISK it would cost you to have a Duvolle AR wtih Proficiency 3 ,and then how much it would cost you to have a Kaalakiota FG with Prof 3? Then add the fact that us fatties die a LOT more than tanks.Yeah believe it or not.Remember: TAnks can be countered By AV and other tanks/droships. Heavies get killed by everything in the game.... DO NOT INCREASE THE PRICE OF AV, decrease the price of vehicles....
why do you keep telling yourself forges and ar's are a high sp/isk sink? is it the fact that i can buy 50 forge guns for the price of one tank? how about the fact we have to spec into LAVs just to be able to start putting points into HAVs?
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Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
1141
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Posted - 2013.08.29 07:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Niccolo deLuce wrote: Fix the fact that swarms don't reliably track
yeah, stopped reading after this. you should have at least put that at the end of your post
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Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
1141
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Posted - 2013.08.29 07:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:I don't support needing a squad to kill me, but I don't expect to be solo'd by something that costs 40k as opposed to my 1mil Today's your lucky day. I'm going to throw you some life changing advice. Don't play like a ******* idiot, and you won't be killed by a guy in a 40k suit. Woah, did you feel that? I did. All of a sudden, you're a better player.  Ask any Tanker here to rate my ability in HAVs and I can assure you it won't be what you're obviously assuming. I'm looking at both sides, I run all Vehicles, I run all AV, it's easy to smash HAVs with a Prototype Forge, yet the Prototype Forge costs less than a SMALL TURRET. Now, before you add something about "Forges not being overpowered" or any other stupid **** I wasn't aiming at, Forges aren't OP to me, what they are though, are too effective for their actual cost. What's even worse it, let's carry on with the Forge, you'd think its counterpart would be the Small Railgun, they're the same size except the rail is mounted. The Forge beats it in everything, and best of yet? it's a fraction of its price.
King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here!Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here!gbghg wrote:CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia
Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.
No kidding, Jason is quite likely the single worst tanker i have ever come across |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
1141
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 07:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
noobsniper the 2nd wrote:a good tank costs about 8-9 mill
false. unless you like rolling around in a gold leaf covered coffin |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
1142
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Posted - 2013.08.29 08:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:Well if the would cost the same you would be indestructible as no one with half a mind would use them, you know instead of you "effective against everythin tankers" an AV guy is quite vulnerable to any enemy on the field while you only have to fear dedicated AV or other tanks  .
simply false.
proto forge guns topping the kill charts is a fact in this current build.
i guess being invisible on top of a tower is being vulnerable tho.
edit: oh yeah, forgot this > |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
1145
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Posted - 2013.08.29 08:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:Don't get me wrong I think proto gear should be more expensive (not only proto AV) but in a reasonable way. There are simply more ways to die as infantry that can't be prevented by skill. Staring from bad spawns up to Orbitals and (to some degree snipers)
this is completely false. Not only are tanks the targets of many orbitals, infantry can simply ignore a strike by standing in an objective or standing next to a wall. Getting sniped is due to ******** positioning or running in an open field, and is in no way something any tanker is going to remotely feel bad for infantry about. What if those snipers were invisible, locked on, and did thousands of damage?
how many times do infantry take sniper shots before counter sniping? usually they cant be bothered because it would mean putting the MD or AR away, then they come here and expect others to feel bad.
If you have a proto suit, you have been playing dust long enough to know the spawns suck. spawn after the rest of your team so you dont get spawn killed at the start of a match. Bad spawns during a match are the complete fault of the spawner, since you choose where to go.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result.
I believe that definition applies to each of my points so far. |
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