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Cyrius Li-Moody
The New Age Outlaws
791
   |
Posted - 2013.08.27 17:37:00 -
[61] - Quote
IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote:CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:You co tinue to post like we care what you think or how we are percieved...
The bottom line is we hold land, we are now selling a portion of said land, and in the process giving a big FU to the dipsh1ts in FEC that utterly failed to take any of it over the course of a week.
We have been eagerly awaiting other games to divert our attention from dust, and 1 of them has arrived.
Many are enjoying it, and simply don't care about dust atm. So we are opening up the idea of getting rid of some land.
You guys had your chance. We had many good fights, but at the cost of sleep and our real lives. We are putting a stop to that as well as opening the board for other people to get in the mix.
Not hard to comprehend So tell me how is locking the districts congruent with opening them?
its called an artificial bottleneck. they increase profits by decreasing supply and increasing demand. |
DaddyKillsEmAll
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
63
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 17:38:00 -
[62] - Quote
JW v Weingarten wrote:D ofDk wrote:You know by urself why it is so hard for even organized corps to take you down.
Corps with no districts needs to buy a clone pack with only 120 clones in it.
As your team and let me say most of EoN is holding Cargo Hubs, you need to beat 450 clones with the 120
you brought into the war AND you are not allowed to loose a single clone cause you cant re-attack if youre under
100.
Only if you have some districts its possible to ship clones and bring more then 120 clones into a war which will
make it possible to re-attack.
You guys are playing good together, thats true. You have tactical teamplay, thats true.
But if no one can come with more then 120 clones, its not possible to bring down your districts.
Right?
Last but not least,
the game mechanics, especially the drop down frame rate by massive MD spamm, plus the ping situation
which is very bad for us EU located teams, makes it even harder.
How else can it be possible that you face very often that there is no hit detection even if a core grenade
is exploding beside someone...
This game is fun but far away from competitive or something i would call ready for e-sports.
And trust me, i like to meet organized teams like you. Why is UPS not fighting in the EU tournament? connections are fine. thought you guys liked competition.
Simple: We like fights and competition, but we dont like to sign up at other pages to push them or whatever ;)
And lol, ist not enough to sign up ur team, no, every player have to sign up....  
Thats all...:)
|
IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY
Molon Labe.
99
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 17:41:00 -
[63] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote:CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:You co tinue to post like we care what you think or how we are percieved...
The bottom line is we hold land, we are now selling a portion of said land, and in the process giving a big FU to the dipsh1ts in FEC that utterly failed to take any of it over the course of a week.
We have been eagerly awaiting other games to divert our attention from dust, and 1 of them has arrived.
Many are enjoying it, and simply don't care about dust atm. So we are opening up the idea of getting rid of some land.
You guys had your chance. We had many good fights, but at the cost of sleep and our real lives. We are putting a stop to that as well as opening the board for other people to get in the mix.
Not hard to comprehend So tell me how is locking the districts congruent with opening them? its called an artificial bottleneck. they increase profits by decreasing supply and increasing demand.
Great well I'm glad that TP is here to teach us how to best emulate Adam Smith, their even bigger nerds than I had originally thought.
BTW that doesn't answer my question as to how one is congruent to the other it only answers how they intend to maximize profit through exploit. |
Zatara Rought
TeamPlayers
EoN.
1091
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 17:49:00 -
[64] - Quote
Flint Beastgood III wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:Flint Beastgood III wrote:
There's also the alliance to call on. However you look at it, locking the districts is just bad sportsmanship. Each to his own.
Sorry you feel that way.  Yeah, not knocking it, just my opinion, if that's what you wish to do that's your business. I'm sure many in the same position would do so too. EDIT: the fact that you are selling them on and excluding certain corps from the sales as to not repeat the cycle is a good thing.
+1 |
daishi mk03
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
122
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 17:58:00 -
[65] - Quote
All you do is sit on the broken PC mechanics, as soon as CCP opens the starmap and increases possibilities for attackers nobody will care for your little enterprise :) |
JW v Weingarten
No Free Pass
557
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 18:10:00 -
[66] - Quote
DaddyKillsEmAll wrote:JW v Weingarten wrote:D ofDk wrote:You know by urself why it is so hard for even organized corps to take you down.
Corps with no districts needs to buy a clone pack with only 120 clones in it.
As your team and let me say most of EoN is holding Cargo Hubs, you need to beat 450 clones with the 120
you brought into the war AND you are not allowed to loose a single clone cause you cant re-attack if youre under
100.
Only if you have some districts its possible to ship clones and bring more then 120 clones into a war which will
make it possible to re-attack.
You guys are playing good together, thats true. You have tactical teamplay, thats true.
But if no one can come with more then 120 clones, its not possible to bring down your districts.
Right?
Last but not least,
the game mechanics, especially the drop down frame rate by massive MD spamm, plus the ping situation
which is very bad for us EU located teams, makes it even harder.
How else can it be possible that you face very often that there is no hit detection even if a core grenade
is exploding beside someone...
This game is fun but far away from competitive or something i would call ready for e-sports.
And trust me, i like to meet organized teams like you. Why is UPS not fighting in the EU tournament? connections are fine. thought you guys liked competition. Simple: We like fights and competition, but we dont like to sign up at other pages to push them or whatever ;) And lol, ist not enough to sign up ur team, no, every player have to sign up.... Thats all...:)
So Urgent Fury > UPS? |
DaddyKillsEmAll
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
63
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 18:16:00 -
[67] - Quote
JW v Weingarten wrote:DaddyKillsEmAll wrote:JW v Weingarten wrote:D ofDk wrote:You know by urself why it is so hard for even organized corps to take you down.
Corps with no districts needs to buy a clone pack with only 120 clones in it.
As your team and let me say most of EoN is holding Cargo Hubs, you need to beat 450 clones with the 120
you brought into the war AND you are not allowed to loose a single clone cause you cant re-attack if youre under
100.
Only if you have some districts its possible to ship clones and bring more then 120 clones into a war which will
make it possible to re-attack.
You guys are playing good together, thats true. You have tactical teamplay, thats true.
But if no one can come with more then 120 clones, its not possible to bring down your districts.
Right?
Last but not least,
the game mechanics, especially the drop down frame rate by massive MD spamm, plus the ping situation
which is very bad for us EU located teams, makes it even harder.
How else can it be possible that you face very often that there is no hit detection even if a core grenade
is exploding beside someone...
This game is fun but far away from competitive or something i would call ready for e-sports.
And trust me, i like to meet organized teams like you. Why is UPS not fighting in the EU tournament? connections are fine. thought you guys liked competition. Simple: We like fights and competition, but we dont like to sign up at other pages to push them or whatever ;) And lol, ist not enough to sign up ur team, no, every player have to sign up.... Thats all...:) So Urgent Fury > UPS?
YES  |
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER
TeamPlayers
EoN.
1460
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 18:27:00 -
[68] - Quote
IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote:CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:You co tinue to post like we care what you think or how we are percieved...
The bottom line is we hold land, we are now selling a portion of said land, and in the process giving a big FU to the dipsh1ts in FEC that utterly failed to take any of it over the course of a week.
We have been eagerly awaiting other games to divert our attention from dust, and 1 of them has arrived.
Many are enjoying it, and simply don't care about dust atm. So we are opening up the idea of getting rid of some land.
You guys had your chance. We had many good fights, but at the cost of sleep and our real lives. We are putting a stop to that as well as opening the board for other people to get in the mix.
Not hard to comprehend So tell me how is locking the districts congruent with opening them?
method of control, you guys should really go to some basic college lit classes and work up on reading comprehension
no im sorry but im not going to sit here and document every little step we do and raise our hand every time we gotta tinkle...
those interested that aren't on the side of random alts and the whiny kids that cant win a 7v16 match when they have 16, or 10 v 16, or whatever advantage damn near all of you have gotten over the past week, please hit me up.
having some great conversations atm so if you'll excuse me... |
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER
TeamPlayers
EoN.
1460
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 18:29:00 -
[69] - Quote
DaddyKillsEmAll wrote:Simple: We like fights and competition, but we dont like to sign up at other pages to push them or whatever ;) And lol, ist not enough to sign up ur team, no, every player have to sign up.... Thats all...:)
technology is a mofo  |
IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY
Molon Labe.
103
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 18:29:00 -
[70] - Quote
I think that is called ducking... quack btw sorry congruent was too much for your mind to handle. |
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Soraya Xel
New Eden's Most Wanted
Top Men.
377
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 18:35:00 -
[71] - Quote
Not cheap?
- Make money by taking everyone's stuff in PC.
- Sell districts back at high price.
- Make money by taking them back again in PC.
How is that giving back to the community?
Do these high priced districts come with the assurance that EoN will not reclaim them, nor will EoN players ring for corps attacking them? Where's the value?
Why would we pay more than we've paid for districts in the past? |
Military Advisor
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 18:42:00 -
[72] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:How is that giving back to the community?
Do these high priced districts come with the assurance that EoN will not reclaim them, nor will EoN players ring for corps attacking them? Where's the value?
Why would we pay more than we've paid for districts in the past?
Also, what's to stop the stronger FEC corps from attacking anyone who buys land from TP? Can't see why they'd cut Eon collaborators any slack. |
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER
TeamPlayers
EoN.
1461
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 18:44:00 -
[73] - Quote
the guarantee I will make is very simple...
buying districts places u at the BOTTOM of the list, and ill be honest the list is ever increasing...
in game actions, fight club infractions, corps with bad breath, PRO.. the list goes on
These are not inflated prices either. the prices you got before were introductory... u got land at less than HALF the cheapest ever sold.
all I will say on that...
as always.. I have and shall NEVER attack ANY district I have sold, unless provoked.
our services to defend are always an option, at a price.
I did away with the insurance policy because no one thought the premiums were worth the service...
2 months later.. most have no land. I can only make suggestions
and as for giving back...
once u have the land its out of my hands.
there are what 225 total districts in this game... districts changing hands is the name of the game.. no one gonna hang onto everything forever
once again... don't distort the pricing because you got the once in a lifetime deal before (lucky u) |
Cyrius Li-Moody
The New Age Outlaws
792
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 18:45:00 -
[74] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Not cheap?
- Make money by taking everyone's stuff in PC.
- Sell districts back at high price.
- Make money by taking them back again in PC.
How is that giving back to the community?
Do these high priced districts come with the assurance that EoN will not reclaim them, nor will EoN players ring for corps attacking them? Where's the value?
Why would we pay more than we've paid for districts in the past?
I don't want to support the notion but the business model they are running works. They seem to have paid attention during Econ 101 when many didn't. I applaud their intuitive use of business strategy. I do want to see everything burn though. You know for fun. :) |
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER
TeamPlayers
EoN.
1461
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 18:46:00 -
[75] - Quote
Military Advisor wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:How is that giving back to the community?
Do these high priced districts come with the assurance that EoN will not reclaim them, nor will EoN players ring for corps attacking them? Where's the value?
Why would we pay more than we've paid for districts in the past? Also, what's to stop the stronger FEC corps from attacking anyone who buys land from TP? Can't see why they'd cut Eon collaborators any slack.
whys it collaboration? im not asking for any form of allegiance or anything of the sort.
simply respectable corps looking for land that aren't directly on the enemy side of this war (pretty obvious there)
AE claims to be these 'saviors' to team players 'control' over molden heath.
yet you are insinuating them and others are gonna beat on the little guy for getting some land?
yea sounds like some **** Sha and Kujo would pull...
but they are the ones claiming they are the good guys ;) |
IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY
Molon Labe.
103
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 18:47:00 -
[76] - Quote
CUB's word is bond, yours is worth nothing. Your actions speak more to your master plan for financial gain than they speak to the amount of integrity you have. If you owned your scrubby ways and how you intend to keep your empire no one would be calling you out. They may be calling you out for being a slumlord but not for being a hypocrite. EVERYONE HATES A HYPOCRITE |
bigolenuts
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
107
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 18:50:00 -
[77] - Quote
You guys are just so full of yourself. I swear, I have tried to see a good side of you(EoN)but the more you post, the more I can see the ignorance and arrogance.
this "I argued that this is too soon, but Cubs wisely wants to preemptively avoid any player burnout with the tourney being the endgoal, not fattening wallets in a gamemode that we've broken."
So now YOU have broken the game lol....Excuse me, but I am pretty sure it has been broken for some time. You are just taking advantage of mechanics. Locking your won districts? Not much better than the melee glitch. Only 16v16?? I'd love to see you fight 32v32 or 64v64. A different ballgame all together.But, we will not see that happen anytime soon.
I am curious though, does Cubs make you guys tweak your own nipples while you look in the mirror winking at yourselves?
I will assume he does. |
HARDFACTS DUSTTRUTH
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
148
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 19:04:00 -
[78] - Quote
Shut up Cubs every1 knows your a liar, and this is a last ditch effort to pad your wallet before you lose the districts anyway.
Before any of you think about doing any land deals with cubs, READ THIS: #6
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99559
If you do make a deal despite the evidence shown, you will be supporting th enemy by funding them and I wouldnt be suprised if any1 came in and wiped you off the map for funding them. USE YOUR HEADS. |
Soraya Xel
New Eden's Most Wanted
Top Men.
377
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 19:06:00 -
[79] - Quote
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:there are what 225 total districts in this game... districts changing hands is the name of the game.. no one gonna hang onto everything forever
245 is the magic number, actually. |
Military Advisor
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 19:09:00 -
[80] - Quote
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:Military Advisor wrote:Also, what's to stop the stronger FEC corps from attacking anyone who buys land from TP? Can't see why they'd cut Eon collaborators any slack. whys it collaboration? im not asking for any form of allegiance or anything of the sort. simply respectable corps looking for land that aren't directly on the enemy side of this war (pretty obvious there) AE claims to be these 'saviors' to team players 'control' over molden heath. yet you are insinuating them and others are gonna beat on the little guy for getting some land? yea sounds like some **** Sha and Kujo would pull... but they are the ones claiming they are the good guys ;)
Fair enough, 'collaborators' was a bit strong, but my point was that you're explicitly only giving out land to corps that haven't rubbed you up the wrong way (see OP). That's going to raise the suspicion - in many cases, wrong, I'm sure - that you're giving land in exchange for services rendered. A bit like this:
25 Aug TeamPlayers lost Altbrard VI - District 1 to Pradox One |
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Zekain K
Expert Intervention
Caldari State
287
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 19:20:00 -
[81] - Quote
Coo coo ka choo.
So much drama. |
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER
TeamPlayers
EoN.
1463
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 19:23:00 -
[82] - Quote
Military Advisor wrote:CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:Military Advisor wrote:Also, what's to stop the stronger FEC corps from attacking anyone who buys land from TP? Can't see why they'd cut Eon collaborators any slack. whys it collaboration? im not asking for any form of allegiance or anything of the sort. simply respectable corps looking for land that aren't directly on the enemy side of this war (pretty obvious there) AE claims to be these 'saviors' to team players 'control' over molden heath. yet you are insinuating them and others are gonna beat on the little guy for getting some land? yea sounds like some **** Sha and Kujo would pull... but they are the ones claiming they are the good guys ;) Fair enough, 'collaborators' was a bit strong, but my point was that you're explicitly only giving out land to corps that haven't rubbed you up the wrong way (see OP). That's going to raise the suspicion - in many cases, wrong, I'm sure - that you're giving land in exchange for services rendered. A bit like this: 25 Aug TeamPlayers lost Altbrard VI - District 1 to Pradox One
your dust alert only compares previous owner to current owner. district becomes unoccupied then has a new owner.. that's what it says.
just like the other day... Pure innocence 'Lost Hrober V D3 (I think) to D3LTA F0RC3
no.. PI sold their clones, someone was supposed to grab the unoccupied district. D3LTA was on top of it and got it.
no fight.. just good timing on their part
and people are gonna think what they wanna think. Everyone who has ever dealt with me knows there's no BS involved. And simply put, buy land, turn around and attack me with it.. well THEN that's pretty solid reasoning to come take it back, but as EVERY single person that has purchased... not a single one has ever been attacked by me on the district they bought from me.
have even given them priority in helping as well when available, but no one bothers researching anything before posting |
Soraya Xel
New Eden's Most Wanted
Top Men.
379
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 19:28:00 -
[83] - Quote
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:as EVERY single person that has purchased... not a single one has ever been attacked by me on the district they bought from me.
Perhaps not, but your alliance has. |
HARDFACTS DUSTTRUTH
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
150
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 19:28:00 -
[84] - Quote
CUBS YOUR LIEING AGAINNN, Proof right from YOU. Quit trying to BS everyone FFS. Read
HARDFACTS DUSTTRUTH wrote:4: You guys fail to realise the future of this game and PC is not EON, Its the new corps, new alliances, and new players.
PC and the game will Flurish if EoN dissolved today then everyone could actually enjoy the game and have all the wars they want without pro thumb wigglers calling the shots.5: EoN-Planetary Response= 1 in the same the only difference was there execution. PRO made a corp of huge numbers - While EoN made an alliance with huge numbers. EoN just happened to execute it better than ContraBanJoe, other than that they are the same thing. 6: Dont give us the oh we helped indies crap again either, that wasnt to help anything but your wallet and make it so you control who comes and gos in PC. You keep doing it because when ever they need ringers you are the one they pay. Its all PR BS and business not to "Save the game" If you wanna save it split the alliance. Give away alll your districts and then you will have battles again. But you wont because your that irritateing GF that wants all the money she can get. HERES YOUR PROOF FROM THE MAN HIMSELF. MORE PROOF FROM EON MEMBERS ADDED 8/06/13
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:Another satisfied customer that seemed to think owning land gave them rights to keep it. U know of all the land I've sold not a single corp has taken out the insurance policy I offered. Likely cause its not cheap, but since when are guarantees cheap? XeroTheBigPuzz wrote:True Adamance wrote:Um in latest scandals rumours are about about EoN loss of integrity with many small indie corps claiming to have been blindsided by EoN corps which claimed to want to support indie acitvities.
Substanceless claims have surfaced of EoN selling districts only to take them back by force later, while other indie corps are up in arms about the weaker indie corps simply hiring entire EoN teams to fight for them. I think Indie corps are being delusional. Even if EoN sold you land, if you don't buy the insurance plan we offer than keeping your land is NOT a promise. We don't sell it and attack it the next day however. We usually give a good 2 weeks or so. 7: EON quit calling every post that makes you look bad QQ, your just making yourselves sound even more ignorant. 8: I now leave this open to the Chest thumping EoN trolls to come QQ about another PR failure. GG thumb wigglers.  9: Quit calling the game dead that you play all day every day ingame and on its forums and using it as an excuse for your BS. Baraka fail shame seems to be the main ignorant fool doing it. BIGGEST JOKE IN EON GOES TO BARAKA FAIL SHAME, CUBS, MAVADO, AND HIGHTIMES! Congrats on making your corps and alliance look like total idiots. 10: Until this terrorist Organization is destroyed DO NOT do any land deals and/or anything involving isk as they will rob you blind and leave you with nothing. Its happened to everyone that has delt with them. |
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER
TeamPlayers
EoN.
1463
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 19:34:00 -
[85] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:as EVERY single person that has purchased... not a single one has ever been attacked by me on the district they bought from me. Perhaps not, but your alliance has.
actually no.... if u think about it... still hasn't happened.
Every Sale Ive made ive informed my alliance to leave them be, or at least give them time to get situated.
depends on the situation.
you are also making comparisons to when the map was completely dormant, and I have personally never sold u any land anyway...
but we really don't need to get into that.
the landscape has changed, there is a band of rebels that have assembled to fight the powers, thus shaking things up.
I have land, im willing to move some. Hit me up if interested...
really that simple |
ER-Bullitt
Molon Labe.
337
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 19:36:00 -
[86] - Quote
Do not drink this mans coolaid as it is poisonous. Do not believe anything he says. The meta game is strong with him. |
Heavy Breaks
Red Star.
EoN.
234
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 19:37:00 -
[87] - Quote
Killar-12 wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote:
SO you're saying you're willing to exploit the mechanics by locking your districts with blue or alt corps so that they are never vulnerable to an attack by actual DUST players, and you're different from SHAKA KHAN in what way?
Kettle meet Pot he said you were black
SMH How is this an exploit? Can you not hit the timers? Just gotta pay attention  We're different cause we beat everyone.  They're different because they're Americans... Not those tea sipping Brits... Just to say I'd rather deal with SI they don't act like they're farmers...
I'd say a good 20% of EoN are EU and most of those are UK.
It's not just TP that's been roflstomping the FEC you know.
We at RS have the same amount of districts as we starts with.
Tea sipping we ain't. |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star.
EoN.
823
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 19:45:00 -
[88] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:What a downfall.
::looks left::
::looks right::
::looks at the map::
... so much 'LOLwat?' i can't even... |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star.
EoN.
823
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 19:45:00 -
[89] - Quote
Heavy Breaks wrote:Killar-12 wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote:
SO you're saying you're willing to exploit the mechanics by locking your districts with blue or alt corps so that they are never vulnerable to an attack by actual DUST players, and you're different from SHAKA KHAN in what way?
Kettle meet Pot he said you were black
SMH How is this an exploit? Can you not hit the timers? Just gotta pay attention We're different cause we beat everyone. They're different because they're Americans... Not those tea sipping Brits... Just to say I'd rather deal with SI they don't act like they're farmers... I'd say a good 20% of EoN are EU and most of those are UK. It's not just TP that's been roflstomping the FEC you know. We at RS have the same amount of districts as we starts with. Tea sipping we ain't.
Fuckin' A right ... hardcore coffee drinkers up in this *****. |
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER
TeamPlayers
EoN.
1463
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 19:51:00 -
[90] - Quote
HARDFACTS DUSTTRUTH wrote:CUBS YOUR LIEING AGAINNN, Proof right from YOU. Quit trying to BS everyone FFS. Read CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:Another satisfied customer that seemed to think owning land gave them rights to keep it. U know of all the land I've sold not a single corp has taken out the insurance policy I offered. Likely cause its not cheap, but since when are guarantees cheap?
please elaborate your random quoting:
I love you quoting me from a completely different topic trying to misconstrue it.
for those unaware.. that quote was from a while ago when someone bought a district, and got attacked by another low/middle tier corp, and ended up losing their land...
kinda what happens in PC.. some win, some lose.
that particular person was upset, thinking I in some way owed him a district cause he lost the 1 he bought.
no ringers were used against him, not big boys came in and rained on his parade, they simply lost their district to another smaller corp. what PC is ALL about.
post that Mr alt. no need to bend the facts
sad that I have to repeat myself... |
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