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BGoat
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
100
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Posted - 2013.08.23 19:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
A lot of people seem to be freaking out about the Swarm Launcher changes announced in the 1.4 patch notes, so I decided to take a look at the numbers and look at how this will change things:
Note: These timelines assume SL Operation 5 and no rapid reload skills
Current Swarm Launcher Timeline
1.2 seconds: 1st volley launched 3.2 seconds: Fire interval delay finished 4.4 seconds: 2nd volley launched 6.4 seconds: Fire interval delay finished 7.6 seconds: 3rd volley launched 9.6 seconds: Fire interval delay finished 10.8 seconds: 4th volley launched (SL Operation 5 increases clip size to 4) 15.3 seconds: Finished reloading (4.5 second reload time) 16.5 seconds: 5th volley launched 18.5 seconds: Fire interval delay finished 19.7 seconds: 6th volley launched
Uprising 1.4 Swarm Launcher Timeline
1.4 seconds: 1st volley launched 1.7 seconds: Fire interval delay finished 3.1 seconds: 2nd volley launched 3.4 seconds: Fire interval delay finished 4.8 seconds: 3rd volley launched 9.3 seconds: Finished reloading (SL Operation no longer increases clip size, 4.5 second reload time) 10.7 seconds: 4th volley launched 11 seconds: Fire interval delay finished 12.4 seconds: 5th volley launched 12.7 seconds: Fire interval delay finished 14.1 seconds: 6th volley launched
If you compare the timelines, you can see that it will take approximately the same amount of time to launch 4 Swarm Launcher volleys in 1.4 as it does currently (10.7 seconds and 10.8 seconds respectively). If a good tank with full health can be reasonably expected to survive 3 volleys from a Proto SL, they should still have about the same amount of time to turn on reppers and modules and bug out after the alpha volley, but they better get to cover quick.
However, things get progressively worse for tankers past the 4th volley. As you can see from the timeline, in 1.4 it will only take 14.1 seconds to launch 6 Swarm Launcher volleys, whereas it currently would take 19.7 seconds. So it will take 5.7 seconds less time to unload 2 full Swarm Launcher clips once 1.4 is release.
At first, I thought people may be overreacting to the SL changes coming up in 1.4, without taking the time to really understand how they will impact things. However, after doing this analysis, it looks like vehicle users (and tankers especially) are being dealt another blow, with the vehicle-rebalancing 1.5 patch still more than a month away. |
Torr Wrath
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
764
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Posted - 2013.08.23 19:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
BGoat wrote:At first, I thought people may be overreacting to the SL changes coming up in 1.4, without taking the time to really understand how they will impact things. However, after doing this analysis, it looks like vehicle users (and tankers especially) are being dealt another blow, with the vehicle-rebalancing 1.5 patch still more than a month away.
Dont worry.. its only a month where tanking goes from bad to terrible.. then hopefully in 1.5 they get less terrible :D
-.-
Thank you for posting the numbers by the way. |
Beren Hurin
The Vanguardians
1206
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Posted - 2013.08.23 19:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
BGoat wrote:
However, things get progressively worse for tankers past the 4th volley. As you can see from the timeline, in 1.4 it will only take 14.1 seconds to launch 6 Swarm Launcher volleys, whereas it currently would take 19.7 seconds. So it will take 5.7 seconds less time to unload 2 full Swarm Launcher clips once 1.4 is release.
At first, I thought people may be overreacting to the SL changes coming up in 1.4, without taking the time to really understand how they will impact things. However, after doing this analysis, it looks like vehicle users (and tankers especially) are being dealt another blow, with the vehicle-rebalancing 1.5 patch still more than a month away.
I would like to point out that (when warm launcher rockets are seen by others) things get progressively worse in terms of survival for anyone shooting more than one round of swarm rockets.
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Poplo Furuya
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
704
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Posted - 2013.08.23 19:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
...with Op V the lock on is 1.05s, right? Think your figures need reviewing. |
BGoat
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
102
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Posted - 2013.08.23 20:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Poplo Furuya wrote:...with Op V the lock on is 1.05s, right? Think your figures need reviewing.
Ah, thanks for pointing that out, recalculating... |
Sgt Buttscratch
G I A N T EoN.
663
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Posted - 2013.08.23 20:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Quote:
1.2 seconds: 1st volley launched (1.2 second lock-on time) 3.2 seconds: Fire interval delay finished 4.4 seconds: 2nd volley launched -----Tanks Recieves damage from 1st swarm, 2nd swarm already imbound both invisible--
Add this part in also |
Ninjanomyx
TeamPlayers EoN.
263
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Posted - 2013.08.23 20:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
I think you also forgot to take into account that, even if Modules are Pre-Activated, the Pure Alpha of 3 Proto Swarms w/ Damage Mods WILL guarantee Solo Kills at this RoF BUFF......... |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
1785
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Posted - 2013.08.23 20:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
At over 3k armor damage per volley (proto swarms with proficiency).. you are looking at incredible alpha. 4 Proto SL rockets would be able to take out any armor tank, even with modules running.
So if you're in an armor tank, the only recourse once a SL user has locked onto you is to hop out of your tank and accept the financial loss. |
Promethius Franklin
DUST University Ivy League
185
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Posted - 2013.08.23 20:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:At over 3k armor damage per volley (proto swarms with proficiency).. you are looking at incredible alpha. 4 Proto SL rockets would be able to take out any armor tank, even with modules running.
So if you're in an armor tank, the only recourse once a SL user has locked onto you is to hop out of your tank and accept the financial loss. Maybe the numbers I'm looking at are off but I'm only getting ~2800-2900 with proto+proficiancy V w/ armor bonus. |
Ninjanomyx
TeamPlayers EoN.
264
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Posted - 2013.08.23 20:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
Promethius Franklin wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:At over 3k armor damage per volley (proto swarms with proficiency).. you are looking at incredible alpha. 4 Proto SL rockets would be able to take out any armor tank, even with modules running.
So if you're in an armor tank, the only recourse once a SL user has locked onto you is to hop out of your tank and accept the financial loss. Maybe the numbers I'm looking at are off but I'm only getting ~2800-2900 with proto+proficiancy V w/ armor bonus. Edit: I was off, coming just short of 3k/volley apparently.
Damage Mods are also a factor..... |
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
1028
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Posted - 2013.08.24 10:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
Bump
The community needs to see these numbers
They try to defend the crutch but the numbers alone show its OP and how quickly it can deal damage
Nice one OP |
Kane Banned
Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire
10
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Posted - 2013.08.24 10:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
BTW swarms with operation at level 5 have 5 swarms per clip. After 1.4 it will be 3. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
3287
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Posted - 2013.08.24 10:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
Swarms will need to stick close to supply depots, at that RoF they're going to burn through their reserves and nanohives pretty quickly. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
1028
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Posted - 2013.08.24 11:12:00 -
[14] - Quote
Kane Banned wrote:BTW swarms with operation at level 5 have 5 volleys per clip. After 1.4 it will be 3.
Look at the numbers, look at the ROF
3 in a clip doesnt matter you can fire more faster than the old system |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1213
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Posted - 2013.08.24 11:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
CCP should give side gunners the ability to shootdown rockets. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
1031
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Posted - 2013.08.24 12:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:CCP should give side gunners the ability to shootdown rockets.
If that happened be fun
Also 5 WP per missiles shot down
Blasters would be best for this
I would love that turret |
Kane Banned
Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire
10
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Posted - 2013.08.24 21:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Kane Banned wrote:BTW swarms with operation at level 5 have 5 volleys per clip. After 1.4 it will be 3. Look at the numbers, look at the ROF 3 in a clip doesnt matter you can fire more faster than the old system He had his numbers for the current SL wrong. |
Sarducar Kahn
xCosmic Voidx The Superpowers
52
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Posted - 2013.08.24 22:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
Bump. As a pilot I can't take 3 Proto swarmed volleys and now they will be in the air in half the time? How can CCP casually double (almost) SL DPS? I make a point of standing by them but my mill isk DS will be a mill isk coffin for a month. |
Torr Wrath
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
943
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Posted - 2013.09.03 21:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
Vile thread, long since forgotten... Arise, arise by moronic power And stalk the forum once more.. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
3360
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Posted - 2013.09.03 21:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
Yeah, swarms are ******* scary now. |
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Kekklian Noobatronic
Goonfeet Top Men.
353
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Posted - 2013.09.03 22:00:00 -
[21] - Quote
In reality, there is literally no change in fire rate. If anything, it was nothing more than a nerf. After extensive use of Swarms today, there is still a built in cycle time. I'm launching them no faster than before, only now I have to reload at 3 instead of 5. A net nerf.
Theorycraft is great, but application shows what's really going on. |
Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
755
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Posted - 2013.09.03 22:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:CCP should give side gunners the ability to shootdown rockets. If that happened be fun Also 5 WP per missiles shot down Blasters would be best for this I would love that turret yeah or a module to break swarm locks, High slot module 60 CPU, 0 PG, 1 minute duration, 15 sec cooldown |
Torr Wrath
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
955
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Posted - 2013.09.03 22:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:In reality, there is literally no change in fire rate. If anything, it was nothing more than a nerf. After extensive use of Swarms today, there is still a built in cycle time. I'm launching them no faster than before, only now I have to reload at 3 instead of 5. A net nerf.
Theorycraft is great, but application shows what's really going on.
Your results on application seem to be different than those of others who have tested them. More opinions needed? |
Kaze Eyrou
Turalyon 514
347
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Posted - 2013.09.03 22:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
Torr Wrath wrote:Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:In reality, there is literally no change in fire rate. If anything, it was nothing more than a nerf. After extensive use of Swarms today, there is still a built in cycle time. I'm launching them no faster than before, only now I have to reload at 3 instead of 5. A net nerf.
Theorycraft is great, but application shows what's really going on. Your results on application seem to be different than those of others who have tested them. More opinions needed? I haven't skilled into Swarms and used the 'Dren' Swarm Launcher before today's 1.4 hit. After 1.4 and still unskilled into the Swarm Launcher Operation, I see a definite increase in rate of fire and damage potential to Swarms now. However, on the downside (of course this will be debatable), I chew through my ammo and nanohives much much faster now. |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
405
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Posted - 2013.09.03 23:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
It was hard to tell since I only got 1 game with the lock tone audio working ... but in that one game it seemed to be taking longer to lock ! I missed a few shots by releasing when I normally would but hadn't aquired lock.
Too late to continue testing now but I'll look again at it tomorrow. |
Torr Wrath
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
964
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 05:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
Needless Sacermendor wrote:Edit : with operation 5 skilled by the way ... You guys DO realise the stated increase in lock time is only affecting level 5 operation ? Level 4 has same lock time as previous and 1-3 all have a LONGER lock time now !
Considering prototype swarm launchers were already a major problem and those are the ones that got the best deal from this (even low level swarms still refire faster) i dont see how this is a good thing. |
Spkr4theDead
International-Fleet
592
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Posted - 2013.09.04 05:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:In reality, there is literally no change in fire rate. If anything, it was nothing more than a nerf. After extensive use of Swarms today, there is still a built in cycle time. I'm launching them no faster than before, only now I have to reload at 3 instead of 5. A net nerf.
Theorycraft is great, but application shows what's really going on. You must still be on 1.3. I tried the MLT swarms myself with 0 skills into them. They're definitely a lot better now than they used to be. I can't imagine that it would be like to get operation 5 and proficiency 5. That's a tank dead. right. there. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1460
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Posted - 2013.09.04 05:11:00 -
[28] - Quote
Torr Wrath wrote:Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:In reality, there is literally no change in fire rate. If anything, it was nothing more than a nerf. After extensive use of Swarms today, there is still a built in cycle time. I'm launching them no faster than before, only now I have to reload at 3 instead of 5. A net nerf.
Theorycraft is great, but application shows what's really going on. Your results on application seem to be different than those of others who have tested them. More opinions needed? tested and is similar to the theorycraft, RoF is greatly increased at the LOL cost of 1 round in the clip. and now the reload skill is cheaper now. |
Rusty Shallows
Black Jackals
350
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Posted - 2013.09.04 05:26:00 -
[29] - Quote
Quote:"Analysis of Swarm Launchers in 1.4"
Didn't anyone noticed the ammo nerf on Swarm launchers? The ammo skill is practically required now. I had a guy notice a drop in rounds and then choke when he realized he already had the ammo skill at level 2. |
Spkr4theDead
International-Fleet
592
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 05:30:00 -
[30] - Quote
Rusty Shallows wrote:Quote:"Analysis of Swarm Launchers in 1.4" Didn't anyone noticed the ammo nerf on Swarm launchers? The ammo skill is practically required now. I had a guy notice a drop in rounds and then choke when he realized he already had the ammo skill at level 2. A pair of K2 nanohives should last you a whole match. |
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