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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2528
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 00:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP wants to implement it "in the next release" but honestly we don't need any fancy bells and whistles. We don't need player-to-player trading (the current standpoint). We don't need Eve-to-Dust-to-Eve trading either.
I had this long drawn out wall of text explaining the reasoning but I decided to break it down in key points:
1.) Salvage system is more favorable of certain items - certain weapons not appearing at all while others are plentiful (Laser Rifles vs Sniper Rifles)
2.) Player Trading is good for things like Officer/Aurum gear, but bad for everything else. Trying to find another player with gear that you use but he himself does not use is a bit tricky.
3.) We already have ISK trading and being as it's the more valuable commodity......
4.) ....selling gear is a preferable alternative to trading it.
There's nothing more meaningful than an active economy but if you can't have that than the next best thing is a way to sell off all the gear you're NOT using and give the ISK you gained to another player who can use it to freely buy fittings instead of having to get bits of gear from everyone in his corporation.
5.) ISK isn't an issue with PC capable corporations who are already frolicking in the piles of wealth that keeps climbing. Faction Warfare payouts are about to hit an all time high with future changes. Anyone can just run Militia Gear/BPOs and make uber bank.
So, if ISK isn't an issue and player trading is more of a burden when compared to just... selling the gear and trading the ISK... Why is this simple implementation not in game yet? Why wait for the next release? There's a dozen ways to obtain gear but no way of getting rid of it.
TL;DR - We don't need some big flashy UI with all the bells and whistles when all we really need is a way to sell off the gear we're not using. We already have ISK trading so you've eliminated half the problem. |
Michael Arck
sephiroth clones D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
615
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 00:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
They are listening to the community. The community has been stating "what about the new players" or threads that say "Dust numbers are low"
So, IMO, CCP implemented some things to get people busy, to increase activity and to give new players a little more speed in the steps they take or better yet, SP incentives to get better suits which equal good times for the player
All the people that keep saying ISK is not an issue. Stop being selfish. There are plenty and I do mean plenty, of players who are not even breaking into 1 million ISK yet. Laid back corporations who don't ask for donations (now with the tax, money will generate)
So you should consider why CCP choose what they did to release for the update. It's for the new players that we have made countless threads fussing with CCP for.
Player Trading is coming...just breathe easy. Continue to collect. These things take time. Have some patience dammit. |
Tebu Gan
CrimeWave Syndicate
34
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 00:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
I just want to sell all my useless gear to an npc merchant. I don't care about a player to player market. These things will never be useful to me, I just want to get a little isk out of it to support my tanking habit. Plz plz plz. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2528
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 00:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:I just want to sell all my useless gear to an npc merchant. I don't care about a player to player market. These things will never be useful to me, I just want to get a little isk out of it to support my tanking habit. Plz plz plz.
Exactly.. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
7651
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 00:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
CPM has been stressing this as well to the teams responsible and they understand the important too but there is more backbone work required before we can start selling items on the market to other players. CCP hasn't forgotten but its something that is going to take more than one month to deploy and do as much work possible outside the sprint features is being done. |
gargantuise aaron
Sanguine Knights
105
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 00:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
Shot guns and smgs are most common to me, and isk is never s problem for me, I usually end up with more tgan I can use and donate most of it to my corp. |
Exmaple Core
Ancient Exiles
880
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 00:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:CPM has been stressing this as well to the teams responsible and they understand the important too but there is more backbone work required before we can start selling items on the market to other players. CCP hasn't forgotten but its something that is going to take more than one month to deploy and do as much work possible outside the sprint features is being done.
ty ty! |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2529
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 00:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:CPM has been stressing this as well to the teams responsible and they understand the important too but there is more backbone work required before we can start selling items on the market to other players. CCP hasn't forgotten but its something that is going to take more than one month to deploy and do as much work possible outside the sprint features is being done.
We don't need to sell them to players though - that's the entire point of the thread. We can just sell them to NPC's and it doesn't affect the market at all, just affects us being able to get ISK for all the useless gear that does -nothing-. |
Michael Arck
sephiroth clones D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
617
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 01:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
LOL you are point battling for senseless debate wins.
Now you want to sell them to NPCs, in which they will give the lowest dollar compared to the opportunity that you can sell it to a player for a higher price which is the same as the market of EVE?
Really does that make sense or are you just debating to be debating? |
Zero Harpuia
WarRavens League of Infamy
678
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 01:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:LOL you are point battling for senseless debate wins.
Now you want to sell them to NPCs, in which they will give the lowest dollar compared to the opportunity that you can sell it to a player for a higher price which is the same as the market of EVE?
Really does that make sense or are you just debating to be debating?
Putting in a simple X is worth Y ISK when sold is alot easier than creating an entire market infrastructure. He's asking for a quick tide over until they get around to the full market, and the NPCs need to be there anyway to set the low bar on costs.
To Aeon, why you never respond to PSN messages :c |
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Useless SOB
Rise Of Old Dudes
2
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 01:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
It wouldn't surprise me to see another inventory buyout before player market/trading is implemented. |
Thor McStrut
Reckoners
143
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 01:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:They are listening to the community. The community has been stating "what about the new players" or threads that say "Dust numbers are low"
So, IMO, CCP implemented some things to get people busy, to increase activity and to give new players a little more speed in the steps they take or better yet, SP incentives to get better suits which equal good times for the player
All the people that keep saying ISK is not an issue. Stop being selfish. There are plenty and I do mean plenty, of players who are not even breaking into 1 million ISK yet. Laid back corporations who don't ask for donations (now with the tax, money will generate)
So you should consider why CCP choose what they did to release for the update. It's for the new players that we have made countless threads fussing with CCP for.
Player Trading is coming...just breathe easy. Continue to collect. These things take time. Have some patience dammit.
I know you are all about patience, and CCP knows what they are doing, blah blah blah. But the Market is something that is needed now. ****, it was needed THEN. The longer you wait to implement the player driven market, the more you risk damaging the market. As it stands now, people are just stockpiling isk. It actually takes very little isk to operate in this game, and nearly every game leaves you in the positive unless you absolutely don't care.
The Market needs to come now. It will take a few months to stabilize, and then CCP can work on the Eve to Dust isk conversion and begin the Eve to Dust Market merge. |
Aizen Intiki
Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack
496
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 01:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
But there's no manufacturing yet...... |
Thor McStrut
Reckoners
143
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 01:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:CPM has been stressing this as well to the teams responsible and they understand the important too but there is more backbone work required before we can start selling items on the market to other players. CCP hasn't forgotten but its something that is going to take more than one month to deploy and do as much work possible outside the sprint features is being done.
I'd be very interested to hear what kind of "backbone work" needs to be done. They already have an item database. They already have an NPC seeded market. They just need to allow us to set up buy and sell orders, and wallah! Player driven market. Obviously, I'm not a programmer, but common. It's got to be as easy as putting bread in a toaster to get toast. Right? |
Thor McStrut
Reckoners
143
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 01:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
Aizen Intiki wrote:But there's no manufacturing yet......
If manufacturing is Dust side, I will be very disappointed. This is the perfect opportunity to give PI meaning, and allow a meaningful Eve to Dust interaction, until they get Sov. worked out for 0.0 |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2529
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 05:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
Thor McStrut wrote:Aizen Intiki wrote:But there's no manufacturing yet...... If manufacturing is Dust side, I will be very disappointed. This is the perfect opportunity to give PI meaning, and allow a meaningful Eve to Dust interaction, until they get Sov. worked out for 0.0
Manufacturing should be both Dust and Eve side, with Eve being more efficient and done in bulk while Dust is easier for personal use. The difference between manufacturing for the person manufacturing for a corporation/war campaign. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2529
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 05:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Michael Arck wrote:LOL you are point battling for senseless debate wins.
Now you want to sell them to NPCs, in which they will give the lowest dollar compared to the opportunity that you can sell it to a player for a higher price which is the same as the market of EVE?
Really does that make sense or are you just debating to be debating? Putting in a simple X is worth Y ISK when sold is alot easier than creating an entire market infrastructure. He's asking for a quick tide over until they get around to the full market, and the NPCs need to be there anyway to set the low bar on costs. To Aeon, why you never respond to PSN messages :c
Man, I never notice those silly little updates on PSN - I'm a PC gamer, I don't pay attention to pop-ups. |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
794
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 06:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:CPM has been stressing this as well to the teams responsible and they understand the important too but there is more backbone work required before we can start selling items on the market to other players. CCP hasn't forgotten but its something that is going to take more than one month to deploy and do as much work possible outside the sprint features is being done. Can we just sell it back to NPC market at a slight loss? Seems like liquidation would be easier to impliment...
Michael Arck wrote:There are plenty and I do mean plenty, of players who are not even breaking into 1 million ISK yet.
How the... ... I don't even...
?!WHAT?!
1 mil ISK?! That's like an hour of gameplay in militia gear. GTFO with that nonsense... those plenty of people are probably broke IRL too. lol |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
794
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 06:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
Thor McStrut wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:CPM has been stressing this as well to the teams responsible and they understand the important too but there is more backbone work required before we can start selling items on the market to other players. CCP hasn't forgotten but its something that is going to take more than one month to deploy and do as much work possible outside the sprint features is being done. I'd be very interested to hear what kind of "backbone work" needs to be done. They already have an item database. They already have an NPC seeded market. They just need to allow us to set up buy and sell orders, and wallah! Player driven market. Obviously, I'm not a programmer, but common. It's got to be as easy as putting bread in a toaster to get toast. Right? It's always the scaling that's a ***** bro. Scaling. |
hooc order
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
864
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 06:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
What should happen now and what CCP is capable of doing now are not the same thing.
You see coding the ability to sell items in game is akin to landing a person on the moon don't you see.
Such things take a long time and great effort to accomplish. |
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Tebu Gan
CrimeWave Syndicate
38
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 15:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
Rogatien Merc wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:CPM has been stressing this as well to the teams responsible and they understand the important too but there is more backbone work required before we can start selling items on the market to other players. CCP hasn't forgotten but its something that is going to take more than one month to deploy and do as much work possible outside the sprint features is being done. Can we just sell it back to NPC market at a slight loss? Seems like liquidation would be easier to impliment... Michael Arck wrote:There are plenty and I do mean plenty, of players who are not even breaking into 1 million ISK yet. How the... ... I don't even... ?!WHAT?! 1 mil ISK?! That's like an hour of gameplay in militia gear. GTFO with that nonsense... those plenty of people are probably broke IRL too. lol
I run tanks and never run my dropsuit. I'm lucky to have a million. And that's considering losing one tank every 5 to 6 matchs. Losing 2 I usually just stop playing altogether. Tanks are a *****,more so with ultra awesome swarms now. |
Oso Peresoso
RisingSuns
638
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 16:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote: I had this long drawn out wall of text explaining the reasoning but I decided to break it down in key points:
2.) Player Trading is good for things like Officer/Aurum gear, but bad for everything else. Trying to find another player with gear that you use but he himself does not use is a bit tricky.
3.) We already have ISK trading and being as it's the more valuable commodity......
4.) ....selling gear is a preferable alternative to trading it.
There's nothing more meaningful than an active economy but if you can't have that than the next best thing is a way to sell off all the gear you're NOT using and give the ISK you gained to another player who can use it to freely buy fittings instead of having to get bits of gear from everyone in his corporation.
5.) ISK isn't an issue with PC capable corporations who are already frolicking in the piles of wealth that keeps climbing. Faction Warfare payouts are about to hit an all time high with future changes. Anyone can just run Militia Gear/BPOs and make uber bank.
So, if ISK isn't an issue and player trading is more of a burden when compared to just... selling the gear and trading the ISK... Why is this simple implementation not in game yet? Why wait for the next release? There's a dozen ways to obtain gear but no way of getting rid of it.
Because if you can buy items AND sell them at a fixed rate, then those items aren't really part of the economy. Purchasing gear for isk puts a price ceiling on certain high demand goods. For low demand goods, if you could sell them back at full or nearly-full price, then you've got both a cap and a floor, and those goods are static. Any buyback should be at 50 or 25% refund rate, so that there is some actual market activity going on.
Regarding point #2, it would have to be handled similar to the way it is in Eve, where players can post buy and sell orders, and other players sell directly to those buy orders or can buy directly from the sell orders. This also introduces trading as a means to make isk. Then, down the line, the NPC sell orders (currently selling unlimited equipmnt at fixed prices) could be programmed to react to the market, and later be removed entirely as these goods will eventually be produced in Eve, integrating dust into the larger system of item manufacture, destruction, and reprocessing. |
Anarchide
Greedy Bastards
483
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 16:13:00 -
[23] - Quote
I have tons of stuff to sell.
I look foward this feature. |
THE TRAINSPOTTER
ROMANIA Renegades C0VEN
198
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 16:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
or trade items between our characters , i have plenty of swarm launchers i cant use but my other character can |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
7689
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 16:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
Well selling items in Dust has its complications. first being where is your 'inventory' in the universe and the sorts. For as far as the game universe is concerned we're middle of nowhere which also just happens to not have an 'auction house.'
So improving the backbone may include adding our inventories into the space, and getting that space beefed up to handle us (it should considering jita sees a billion+ items a day shifted.) Then comes the question of what to do with middle of nowhere?
Do we make it a real space that magically interact with all Dust 514 related stations or what, making our inventories exist in a weird quasi-quantum entangled state in the universe? Or we do it like eve that everything you sell is from the station you're stationed in? Questions that need answering, considerations, weighing, and support and the sorts. |
DS 10
Pure Innocence. EoN.
791
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 16:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
Been playing for 6 months. Only gotten 14 Gastun's FGs. I wish I could trade my 100+ Officer/Proto ARs. |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
254
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 16:56:00 -
[27] - Quote
SOON?TM |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
254
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 17:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Well selling items in Dust has its complications. first being where is your 'inventory' in the universe and the sorts. For as far as the game universe is concerned we're middle of nowhere which also just happens to not have an 'auction house.'
So improving the backbone may include adding our inventories into the space, and getting that space beefed up to handle us (it should considering jita sees a billion+ items a day shifted.) Then comes the question of what to do with middle of nowhere?
Do we make it a real space that magically interact with all Dust 514 related stations or what, making our inventories exist in a weird quasi-quantum entangled state in the universe? Or we do it like eve that everything you sell is from the station you're stationed in? Questions that need answering, considerations, weighing, and support and the sorts.
Why not allow us to move from station to station by having an Eve player dock at the station, open his ship hanger to a dust merc so he can walk on in...uhm, Walking on Stations 2.0. Then load his inventory, trade items and contract shipments of items and personnel to the desired station for sale or just a vacation from the station they are in. To go shopping in Jita or Rens, or Dodixie or even Hek or Amarr or maybe to visit the corporate Hanger to grab a tank or two for the next battle.
I've hauled scientists and exotic dancers as well as Oura Masadi to countless stations along with ammo, and modules and trade items. My slaver hounds have yet to attack a single one of my passengers. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________
One Universe//One War//One Server//One Shard not two or twenty. |
Tebu Gan
CrimeWave Syndicate
39
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 18:00:00 -
[29] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:LOL you are point battling for senseless debate wins.
Now you want to sell them to NPCs, in which they will give the lowest dollar compared to the opportunity that you can sell it to a player for a higher price which is the same as the market of EVE?
Really does that make sense or are you just debating to be debating?
Yeah, I don't care about making the most money possible. I've had this gear for months, and I'm not using any of it, ever. And I'm strapped for cash. Nuff said. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2531
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 00:54:00 -
[30] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Well selling items in Dust has its complications. first being where is your 'inventory' in the universe and the sorts. For as far as the game universe is concerned we're middle of nowhere which also just happens to not have an 'auction house.'
So improving the backbone may include adding our inventories into the space, and getting that space beefed up to handle us (it should considering jita sees a billion+ items a day shifted.) Then comes the question of what to do with middle of nowhere?
Do we make it a real space that magically interact with all Dust 514 related stations or what, making our inventories exist in a weird quasi-quantum entangled state in the universe? Or we do it like eve that everything you sell is from the station you're stationed in? Questions that need answering, considerations, weighing, and support and the sorts. Why not allow us to move from station to station by having an Eve player dock at the station, open his ship hanger to a dust merc so he can walk on in...uhm, Walking on Stations 2.0. Then load his inventory, trade items and contract shipments of items and personnel to the desired station for sale or just a vacation from the station they are in. To go shopping in Jita or Rens, or Dodixie or even Hek or Amarr or maybe to visit the corporate Hanger to grab a tank or two for the next battle. I've hauled scientists and exotic dancers as well as Oura Masadi to countless stations along with ammo, and modules and trade items. My slaver hounds have yet to attack a single one of my passengers. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________ One Universe//One War//One Server//One Shard not two or twenty.
Or better yet why don't we do the logical thing and.....
Brace yourself...
Sell the **** off to an NPC at reduced rates?!
Why is this so complicated - why do we have to exaggerate the problem like it's this HUGE thing that the game needs to track where all of our gear is? I mean, ****, it spawns out of ******* no where whenever you buy it so why is it SO important to know what station you're in and what hangar all of your gear is in RIGHT NOW?
Christ man, stop thinking long term. This entire game sucks because everything was thought out long term. "Let's get the core gameplay out of the way FIRST" well what the HELL is core gameplay if we can't even sell ****????
Sorry to freak out but damn, there's got to be a line drawn. |
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