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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1202
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 16:18:00 -
[31] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:sick of having 5Mil SP wasted because my suit build got nerfed.
EDIT: If my decisions have permanence why do I get nerfed?
5mil?
Do you even math bro? |
low genius
the sound of freedom Renegade Alliance
299
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 16:24:00 -
[32] - Quote
MCEINSTEIN08 wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:One word
Crosstrain
Indeed, but by cross-training I am loosing over 3mil SPs that I can use right now. It took me a long time to get to Proto Logic, and now I am restarting a new Alt. Merc. Trials and errors is the only way you can get through DUST 514, no-one can tell you what is good or not, but by testing it yourself. So I tried but I did not care for it. Now I have a good load-out and enjoying the game again, but I had to restart all over again and leave behind almost 10mil SPs. Will take me months to get where I was. No matter the reasons, I do not understand the "No" Respec policy. Thank you.
acting like the logi is unusable now is silly. |
low genius
the sound of freedom Renegade Alliance
299
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 16:25:00 -
[33] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Rogatien Merc wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Charlie 'Chaplin' Pennock wrote:Respecs would break the game to an extent beyond repair. Odd, all the respecs we've had before never seemed to "break the game to an extent beyond repair". They did however seem to renew many players interest in the game, at least for a while. Arguably, the rise of the "Cal Logi" game-breaking-FOTM **** people complain about can be attributed to the availability of the LAST respec we got That's less of a product of respecs and more of a product of CCP not knowing how to properly balance their FPS game. If things were reasonably balanced and slowly iterated on, it wouldn't matter nearly as much. Respecs or something like a respec is needed because it helps keep people from getting incredibly bored running the exact same thing every single game. No other modern FPS forces you to wait months on end to be reasonable in any given role. You can switch out, mix and match, and just go (in general). In DUST, you're forced to wade through the same 5 matches for months to get anything "good", and you are rewarded with a little stat boost and the exact same gameplay you've been playing for months on end. It's boring. That's the problem. Letting people swap out their hard earned SP from time to time only hurts ego's.
respecs cannot help anyone if you take math into account. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
5745
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 16:26:00 -
[34] - Quote
low genius wrote:respecs cannot help anyone if you take math into account. - X SP from Y skills
+X SP to Z skills
Profit? |
Brolaire of Asstoria
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
134
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 16:28:00 -
[35] - Quote
I've just seen Babars thread about the same suit being over nerfed but I've seen his fit and you lot can still get more on it than I can on my Amarr Logi or my Cal Assault and he said he was fitted for "support"... Suit is still very effective... Maybe not for proto logi stuff anymore though... |
Hecarim Van Hohen
Bullet Cluster
108
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 16:32:00 -
[36] - Quote
Rogatien Merc wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:sick of having 5Mil SP wasted because my suit build got nerfed.
EDIT: If my decisions have permanence why do I get nerfed? Dont buy a Beetle with a Souped up 500 HP engine for 30.000$ that you know will break down because it wasnt made for it, when you could have bought a R32 GTR for 15.000$ with stock 420 HP and use the other 15 grand to upgrade it to 700 HP at a later date. We all knew the Logi suits would eventually get nerfed, we however never tought it would take em Months to do it, you used the suit for months to your advantage, so why would you be allowed to change back out ? "We all knew..." Bullshit answer TBQH. Some of us specced into Cal Logi before there WAS massive QQ.
"Oh look, a obviously broken suit, better pour all my SP into it... it's not like they will nerf / fix it"
Seriously, how can you miss the suit being broken as **** and then dare to come here and QQ about your godsuit being nerfed to the same level as the rest of the suits is beyond me.... |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
449
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 16:42:00 -
[37] - Quote
Rogatien Merc wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:sick of having 5Mil SP wasted because my suit build got nerfed.
EDIT: If my decisions have permanence why do I get nerfed? Dont buy a Beetle with a Souped up 500 HP engine for 30.000$ that you know will break down because it wasnt made for it, when you could have bought a R32 GTR for 15.000$ with stock 420 HP and use the other 15 grand to upgrade it to 700 HP at a later date. We all knew the Logi suits would eventually get nerfed, we however never tought it would take em Months to do it, you used the suit for months to your advantage, so why would you be allowed to change back out ? "We all knew..." Bullshit answer TBQH. Some of us specced into Cal Logi before there WAS massive QQ.
If you are trying the "OMG i didnt realise 5 High & 4 Medium slots + 25% shield Extender, +5HP per second Bonus is Uber" Card the moment you saw the suit stats released, youre ********.
The second i saw the Callogi i was like Daym, i want that for my assault suit, but my better judgement part of my brain made me train assault suits regardless.
You received 2 respecs dude, i can see that when you are ********, once isnt enough to spec properly, but twice the same rock.....and when they do release a new respec, your gonna smash against the same rock a third time speccing for FOTM again, then cry for another respec.
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
956
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 16:48:00 -
[38] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Respecs or something like a respec is needed because it helps keep people from getting incredibly bored running the exact same thing every single game. No other modern FPS forces you to wait months on end to be reasonable in any given role. You can switch out, mix and match, and just go (in general)
During any given battle I'll switch between four distinctly different roles. I did not take advantage of the last respec. Using my current skills I switch out the role I run:
- Minmatar Logistics 5: I run a traditional logistics role.
- Minmatar Medium 5: Sniper
- Minmatar Medium 5: Swarm Launcher
- Minmatar Light 5 and Scout 3: Behind the front line uplinks, hacking and killing.
I have proficiency 3 in Assault Rifle, SMG, and Sniper. I have operation 3 in Swarm Launcher, Mass Driver and Flaylock.
My core skills in shield and armor tanking support all those roles. My fitting skills support all those roles. My weaponry support skills are at respectable levels. I picked up enough vehicle skills to run a decent armor fit LAV.
Once you have your first role and your core skills picking up other roles is easy. It doesn't take months to be 'reasonable.'
I will only reallocate skills if I'm forced to and I'll just put them right back where they were or whatever is close. |
MocHolliday
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 17:03:00 -
[39] - Quote
Can any one name a product available to a consumer that requires time and/or $ that can instantly change after the product is in the consumer's ownership? That after said change the majority of affected consumers requested no recourse?
To say one was suppose to to predict the nerf is not being fair...why could it not have been a buff to all other suits? That is just as logical. In fact, did not the Dev's say they want to "change" the logis more one day and give bonus's to equipment uses and such...in your logic no one should spec into logis because we are told they will change. Do you believe a company really wants to honestly sell a product and have consumers buy it with explicit knowledge it will change?
Dust seems to be more accurately selling place holders that can be nerfed and buffed at anytime...screw the customer. |
Hecarim Van Hohen
Bullet Cluster
109
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 17:10:00 -
[40] - Quote
MocHolliday wrote:To say one was suppose to to predict the nerf is not being fair...
It wasn't all that hard to see this coming, MMO balancing 101: do not spec into obviously OP stuff and expect it to stay the same as it will get nerfed. |
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Scrappy Bernard
MoIon Labe.
2
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 17:12:00 -
[41] - Quote
MocHolliday wrote:Can any one name a product available to a consumer that requires time and/or $ that can instantly change after the product is in the consumer's ownership? That after said change the majority of affected consumers requested no recourse?
To say one was suppose to to predict the nerf is not being fair...why could it not have been a buff to all other suits? That is just as logical. In fact, did not the Dev's say they want to "change" the logis more one day and give bonus's to equipment uses and such...in your logic no one should spec into logis because we are told they will change. Do you believe a company really wants to honestly sell a product and have consumers buy it with explicit knowledge it will change?
Dust seems to be more accurately selling place holders that can be nerfed and buffed at anytime...screw the customer.
Wouldn't nerfs to classes in WoW be similar cases where people paid money to get **** and then they nerfed abilities or skills of the class? Whats the difference? |
BGoat
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
33
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 17:18:00 -
[42] - Quote
The real reason all these Cal-logis are still crying: they realize how stupid it was to use a suit without a sidearm to play an Assault role, and now they can't rely on panic nading with fused locus grenades when they run out of ammo, like they could before those were nerfed. IMO, it has very little to do with the adjusted stats of the suit and more to do with them dying while reloading as the other true ASSAULT player switches to their sidearm to finish them off. |
Ren Ratner
Infinite Raiders
55
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 17:25:00 -
[43] - Quote
Charlie 'Chaplin' Pennock wrote:MCEINSTEIN08 wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:One word
Crosstrain
Indeed, but by cross-training I am loosing over 3mil SPs that I can use right now. It took me a long time to get to Proto Logic, and now I am restarting a new Alt. Merc. Trials and errors is the only way you can get through DUST 514, no-one can tell you what is good or not, but by testing it yourself. So I tried but I did not care for it. Now I have a good load-out and enjoying the game again, but I had to restart all over again and leave behind almost 10mil SPs. Will take me months to get where I was. No matter the reasons, I do not understand the "No" Respec policy. Thank you. What you should have spec'd into was assault. All the true logi's I know have not had an issue with the changes. Quit crying and adapt.
This. I specced C/Logi because I wanted to shield tank while running a repair tool/nanite injector, knowing the odds of having another logi w/repair tool to watch my back are pretty slim. The nerf did one thing, it forced me to choose between dropping a Duvolle or changing my tank/equipment setup. I dropped the Duvolle. |
OZAROW
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
369
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 17:27:00 -
[44] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:sick of having 5Mil SP wasted because my suit build got nerfed.
EDIT: If my decisions have permanence why do I get nerfed? Lmao 5 mill, that's like a month or two to rebuild, try having 17, an they nerd stamina, strafing increases, shields are about to get nerfed soon, cry me a river bro, I played against you twice the other day an ur out there getting 14 kills in a ambush I'd say ur doing just fine, go get a scout suit and write me a story!
Here I was thinking you were up there wit people like Andrea silver eyes , an now ur just a mortal QQ ; kinda disappointed in you to be honest. So I guess ur the type that taps out when things get tough eh ? I c |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University Ivy League
528
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 17:28:00 -
[45] - Quote
ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:sick of having 5Mil SP wasted because my suit build got nerfed.
EDIT: If my decisions have permanence why do I get nerfed?
when you buy a house and the housing market gets a "nerf" do you get your money back?
when you go to college for a particular profession and then 20 years later that profession has drasctic changes that require further education does your college owe you those classes for free? if you cant find a job in that profession does the college owe you a refund?
when you buy a car and then the next year a better model comes out for the same price do you get to just trade the old one in for the brand new one at no extra cost? if the price of that car you bought comes down in value do you get a check from the dealer for the difference?
life is full of permanent decisions your stuck with... grow up and get used to it.... |
OZAROW
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
369
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 17:30:00 -
[46] - Quote
BGoat wrote:The real reason all these Cal-logis are still crying: they realize how stupid it was to use a suit without a sidearm to play an Assault role, and now they can't rely on panic nading with fused locus grenades when they run out of ammo, like they could before those were nerfed. IMO, it has very little to do with the adjusted stats of the suit and more to do with them dying while reloading as the other true ASSAULT player switches to their sidearm to finish them off. Well said, that's why I'm not trading my scout for a logi shot gunner, I love that side arm |
Patrick57
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
43
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 17:36:00 -
[47] - Quote
To all of you that say that respecs are bad, do you have a reason or are you just stating your opinion? I see nothing wrong with respecs, with all the changes they are making to this game. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
5749
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 17:37:00 -
[48] - Quote
Seymor Krelborn wrote:ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote:sick of having 5Mil SP wasted because my suit build got nerfed.
EDIT: If my decisions have permanence why do I get nerfed? when you buy a house and the housing market gets a "nerf" do you get your money back? when you go to college for a particular profession and then 20 years later that profession has drasctic changes that require further education does your college owe you those classes for free? if you cant find a job in that profession does the college owe you a refund? when you buy a car and then the next year a better model comes out for the same price do you get to just trade the old one in for the brand new one at no extra cost? if the price of that car you bought comes down in value do you get a check from the dealer for the difference? life is full of permanent decisions your stuck with... grow up and get used to it.... It's almost as if when I sign onto my GAME, I expect to play my GAME and enjoy the GAME that I'm playing specifically because it's a GAME and not real life.
In real life you rarely buy a new car only to drive it home and when it gets in the driveway, it magically becomes a broken down beater that no one likes. |
SteelDark Knight
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
92
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 17:48:00 -
[49] - Quote
Seymor Krelborn wrote:when you buy a house and the housing market gets a "nerf" do you get your money back? when you go to college for a particular profession and then 20 years later that profession has drasctic changes that require further education does your college owe you those classes for free? if you cant find a job in that profession does the college owe you a refund? when you buy a car and then the next year a better model comes out for the same price do you get to just trade the old one in for the brand new one at no extra cost? if the price of that car you bought comes down in value do you get a check from the dealer for the difference? life is full of permanent decisions your stuck with... grow up and get used to it....
Seymour, with all due respect I could use this same line to argue for the changing and non-refund of Aurum items you argued against? How is this any different? If I pay for boosters than invest that SP into skills that are changed how am I less affected?
The fact is this is a consumer product and a live service that has to be responsive and fair to its customer base. So far below average reviews and a limited concurrent user base of only roughly 4K means they arenGÇÖt doing something right.
I am all for choices having consequences. There is value in that and players can respect it. However, that is a lie if that choice is false and the only real choice is CCPGÇÖs.
Do not punish players for CCPGÇÖs errors and donGÇÖt blame players for them either.
Note: I do not use any of the items in question. |
Scrappy Bernard
MoIon Labe.
2
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 17:57:00 -
[50] - Quote
Scrappy Bernard wrote:MocHolliday wrote:Can any one name a product available to a consumer that requires time and/or $ that can instantly change after the product is in the consumer's ownership? That after said change the majority of affected consumers requested no recourse?
To say one was suppose to to predict the nerf is not being fair...why could it not have been a buff to all other suits? That is just as logical. In fact, did not the Dev's say they want to "change" the logis more one day and give bonus's to equipment uses and such...in your logic no one should spec into logis because we are told they will change. Do you believe a company really wants to honestly sell a product and have consumers buy it with explicit knowledge it will change?
Dust seems to be more accurately selling place holders that can be nerfed and buffed at anytime...screw the customer. Wouldn't nerfs to classes in WoW be similar cases where people paid money to get **** and then they nerfed abilities or skills of the class? Whats the difference?
QFT |
|
Heimdallr69
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
569
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 18:00:00 -
[51] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:One word
Crosstrain
You guys with your Eve mentality will be the reason why this game fails. People need respecs, get on board or GTFO. Halo, one of the most popular games out there, doesn't have a respec system. Everyone has the same gun and hp |
SteelDark Knight
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
92
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 18:02:00 -
[52] - Quote
Scrappy Bernard wrote:
Wouldn't nerfs to classes in WoW be similar cases where people paid money to get **** and then they nerfed abilities or skills of the class? Whats the difference?
Cannot claim to have ever played WOW but from a quick Google search it appears they have a Respec option? |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
7320
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 18:08:00 -
[53] - Quote
SteelDark Knight wrote:Scrappy Bernard wrote:
Wouldn't nerfs to classes in WoW be similar cases where people paid money to get **** and then they nerfed abilities or skills of the class? Whats the difference?
Cannot claim to have ever played WOW but from a quick Google search it appears they have a Respec option?
To the point players where swapping skill sets between boss fights less than 5 minutes apart. |
TEXA5 HiTM4N
ROGUE SPADES EoN.
169
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 18:29:00 -
[54] - Quote
Now that is why you don't go full FOTM. you end up complaining on the forums that your once extremely powerful suit and weapon are now sorta balanced. If you have to rely on the most over powered things in the game to stay competitive, maybe this is not the game for you.
Also, if they keep giving out respecs every time someones' OP whatever is nerfed then they would have to do it every month. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
5752
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 18:39:00 -
[55] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:SteelDark Knight wrote:Scrappy Bernard wrote:
Wouldn't nerfs to classes in WoW be similar cases where people paid money to get **** and then they nerfed abilities or skills of the class? Whats the difference?
Cannot claim to have ever played WOW but from a quick Google search it appears they have a Respec option? To the point players where swapping skill sets between boss fights less than 5 minutes apart. Which goes back to my pay to win argument a guy with 10,000 USD can easily just rearrange skills between fights in a tournament if he had too just to make it difficult for opponents to know what his fit is, team with the most RL money can repsec the fastest. Yet you still have to play whatever you spec'd into
Ok, so they dropped X amount of dollars into CCPs account.
Now your spy information is either invalid, or invaluable if you still have an active spy, since obviously you have a spy or else you wouldn't be too concerned about what they were running to the extent where you know that teams composition in any meaningful way.
So now this team has dumped a bunch of money to toss around their skills. All the equipment, or much of it, that they had before is now invalid. With a player market they can turn around and sell that back, and create new business as they have to buy new gear to fit their new skills.
I'm not even arguing for a system that would give you such freedom, it's absurd, but I also feel that your point was kind of absurd.
Also with WoW, those "respecs" are in game currency, or at least they were however many years ago it was that I actually had an account >_< Ahhh....WoW....people got very consumed with that game.... |
George Moros
WarRavens League of Infamy
55
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 19:13:00 -
[56] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:To all of you that say that respecs are bad, do you have a reason or are you just stating your opinion? I see nothing wrong with respecs, with all the changes they are making to this game.
OK, here are some reasons:
Allowing regular respecs would enable players with the elitist mentality to insta-switch into any loadout that is currently perceived as OP/FOTM, which would just additionally aggravate the imbalance of a given loadout.
Respecs are in contradiction with the general MMORPG element that the game is trying to achieve. If you allow regular respecs, the concept of "character development" goes out the window.
For a game that aims for EVE-like longevity, respecs would basically mean that the SP cap needed to be fully efficient with any given loadout can be achieved very quickly ("very quickly" relative to the targeted game longevity, of course). |
RedZer0 MK1
Opus Arcana Covert Intervention
27
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 19:16:00 -
[57] - Quote
If the "decisions matter" people were serious, they would be against nerfs AND buffs. If CCP releases an item that people skill into, then that should be that, period. If CCP makes a decision to release an item, and we as players spend skill points on it, should be the end of it. People are funny, all up on morals till it negatively affects them. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
7327
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 19:17:00 -
[58] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:SteelDark Knight wrote:Scrappy Bernard wrote:
Wouldn't nerfs to classes in WoW be similar cases where people paid money to get **** and then they nerfed abilities or skills of the class? Whats the difference?
Cannot claim to have ever played WOW but from a quick Google search it appears they have a Respec option? To the point players where swapping skill sets between boss fights less than 5 minutes apart. Which goes back to my pay to win argument a guy with 10,000 USD can easily just rearrange skills between fights in a tournament if he had too just to make it difficult for opponents to know what his fit is, team with the most RL money can repsec the fastest. Yet you still have to play whatever you spec'd into Ok, so they dropped X amount of dollars into CCPs account. Now your spy information is either invalid, or invaluable if you still have an active spy, since obviously you have a spy or else you wouldn't be too concerned about what they were running to the extent where you know that teams composition in any meaningful way. So now this team has dumped a bunch of money to toss around their skills. All the equipment, or much of it, that they had before is now invalid. With a player market they can turn around and sell that back, and create new business as they have to buy new gear to fit their new skills. I'm not even arguing for a system that would give you such freedom, it's absurd, but I also feel that your point was kind of absurd. Also with WoW, those "respecs" are in game currency, or at least they were however many years ago it was that I actually had an account >_< Ahhh....WoW....people got very consumed with that game....
No matter how good of a sales they are if its bad to for the community its bad despite sales and gives CCP the very wrong idea of how to go forward on their microtransactions. For example the flaylock contact grenade sale at the height of their imbalanced perception and the dropship sales at their lowest perception (which still hasn't really bounded back up.)
Also any team well versed in the 'stance dance' will have invalid fits pre-saved and equipment pre-stocked and skill layout pre-charted so they can easily swap over in the normal 5 minute gap. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
3590
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 20:32:00 -
[59] - Quote
There is just nothing further to talk about in regards to respecs. CCP will not introduce that system ever.
The only thing CCP is looking into at all is the skillback booster that was given an honorable mention back in the Feedback Section of the forums by CCP Cmdr Wang:
Interestingly enough this is the most logical and practically the most fair idea I have ever seen in regards to rearrangement of SP that you already have. Keep in mind that I'm saying this as an anti-respec guy. Unfortunately, there are still a few people here (mainly from the pro-respec group) that feel that this is not enough and still want a full-blown respec system instead. As if they are entitled to it. |
xLTShinySidesx
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
586
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 20:39:00 -
[60] - Quote
Call me a douche if you want but here is how I go about this game.
Step 1: train all of your core skills up, shields, armor, engineering, electronics, equipment, etc..
Step 2: find a suit you like to run and what works best for you and skill into it
Step 3: find out what weapon is fotm or "OP" and skill into it to at least proficiency lvl2
Step 4: don't spend any skill points from here on out till your fotm or "op" weapon gets nerfed
Step 5: repeat steps 3 and 4
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