DUST Search - ETA on respec?

Promethius Franklin wrote:

SteelDark Knight wrote:

Seymor Krelborn wrote:

when you buy a house and the housing market gets a "nerf" do you get your money back?

when you go to college for a particular profession and then 20 years later that profession has drasctic changes that require further education does your college owe you those classes for free? if you cant find a job in that profession does the college owe you a refund?

when you buy a car and then the next year a better model comes out for the same price do you get to just trade the old one in for the brand new one at no extra cost? if the price of that car you bought comes down in value do you get a check from the dealer for the difference?

life is full of permanent decisions your stuck with... grow up and get used to it.... Straight

Seymour, with all due respect I could use this same line to argue for the changing and non-refund of Aurum items you argued against? How is this any different? If I pay for boosters than invest that SP into skills that are changed how am I less affected?

The fact is this is a consumer product and a live service that has to be responsive and fair to its customer base. So far below average reviews and a limited concurrent user base of only roughly 4K means they arenGÇÖt doing something right.

I am all for choices having consequences. There is value in that and players can respect it. However, that is a lie if that choice is false and the only real choice is CCPGÇÖs.

Do not punish players for CCPGÇÖs errors and donGÇÖt blame players for them either.

Note: I do not use any of the items in question.

But there is blame to be spread here in a way regarding the reason for the ops complaint. Fact is he used a suit for it's capabilities outside of it's role. We can and are saying that the balance of the suit is CCP's fault, but it's the individual players who trained for it and used it outside of it's intended place. They chose to make large SP allocations to something clearly broken. And those that got there prior to the nerf got what they paid for, a temporary combat advantage which likely translated into additional rewards for that increased performance.


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SteelDark Knight Imperfects Negative-Feedback 92	Posted - 2013.08.15 17:48:00 - [1] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: when you buy a house and the housing market gets a "nerf" do you get your money back? when you go to college for a particular profession and then 20 years later that profession has drasctic changes that require further education does your college owe you those classes for free? if you cant find a job in that profession does the college owe you a refund? when you buy a car and then the next year a better model comes out for the same price do you get to just trade the old one in for the brand new one at no extra cost? if the price of that car you bought comes down in value do you get a check from the dealer for the difference? life is full of permanent decisions your stuck with... grow up and get used to it.... Seymour, with all due respect I could use this same line to argue for the changing and non-refund of Aurum items you argued against? How is this any different? If I pay for boosters than invest that SP into skills that are changed how am I less affected? The fact is this is a consumer product and a live service that has to be responsive and fair to its customer base. So far below average reviews and a limited concurrent user base of only roughly 4K means they arenGÇÖt doing something right. I am all for choices having consequences. There is value in that and players can respect it. However, that is a lie if that choice is false and the only real choice is CCPGÇÖs. Do not punish players for CCPGÇÖs errors and donGÇÖt blame players for them either. Note: I do not use any of the items in question.
SteelDark Knight Imperfects Negative-Feedback 92	Posted - 2013.08.15 18:02:00 - [2] - Quote Scrappy Bernard wrote: Wouldn't nerfs to classes in WoW be similar cases where people paid money to get **** and then they nerfed abilities or skills of the class? Whats the difference? Cannot claim to have ever played WOW but from a quick Google search it appears they have a Respec option?
SteelDark Knight Imperfects Negative-Feedback 94	Posted - 2013.08.16 02:01:00 - [3] - Quote Promethius Franklin wrote: SteelDark Knight wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: when you buy a house and the housing market gets a "nerf" do you get your money back? when you go to college for a particular profession and then 20 years later that profession has drasctic changes that require further education does your college owe you those classes for free? if you cant find a job in that profession does the college owe you a refund? when you buy a car and then the next year a better model comes out for the same price do you get to just trade the old one in for the brand new one at no extra cost? if the price of that car you bought comes down in value do you get a check from the dealer for the difference? life is full of permanent decisions your stuck with... grow up and get used to it.... Seymour, with all due respect I could use this same line to argue for the changing and non-refund of Aurum items you argued against? How is this any different? If I pay for boosters than invest that SP into skills that are changed how am I less affected? The fact is this is a consumer product and a live service that has to be responsive and fair to its customer base. So far below average reviews and a limited concurrent user base of only roughly 4K means they arenGÇÖt doing something right. I am all for choices having consequences. There is value in that and players can respect it. However, that is a lie if that choice is false and the only real choice is CCPGÇÖs. Do not punish players for CCPGÇÖs errors and donGÇÖt blame players for them either. Note: I do not use any of the items in question. But there is blame to be spread here in a way regarding the reason for the ops complaint. Fact is he used a suit for it's capabilities outside of it's role. We can and are saying that the balance of the suit is CCP's fault, but it's the individual players who trained for it and used it outside of it's intended place. They chose to make large SP allocations to something clearly broken. And those that got there prior to the nerf got what they paid for, a temporary combat advantage which likely translated into additional rewards for that increased performance. CCP themselves released a promotional video showing how Dust 514 was different from other FPS games. As an example they showed how one could use a heavy frame to snipe. In this they showed that you could turn the tables on your foes whom expected a GÇ£typicalGÇ¥ glass cannon. How is it that CCP themselves can point to this great adaptability and customability and yet we as players cannot? The fact is that all items are a set of slot placements, CPU and PG, and certain other variables that may shift it towards a role. Anything else is fluff. If you want to armor tank a Scout suit than that is your right regardless of what the GÇ£optimalGÇ¥ intended role should be. It is part of what CCP use to promote the great sandbox that is Eve. It is CCPGÇÖs job to provide balance GÇô not the players. In this game related to the other often dubbed GÇ£Spreadsheets in spaceGÇ¥ how am I to blame the player for looking at numbers and picking the best option? CCP themselves advertise this as a GÇ£featureGÇ¥ Sadly, we again blame and punish players vs. developers for the use of unbalanced items. "Here is your sandbox, but, don't play with that, or that, or that, because I in my glorious opinion deem it to be overpowered and the great nerf bat cometh." The fact is that CCP dropped the ball. It happens and IGÇÖm not going to beat them up for it. They are going to make changes to bring things in line with the lessons learned. However, it is simply in my mind not a situation were you say HTFU to the player for doing exactly what your supposed to do. The accountability is CCPGÇÖs an punishing players as if they are accountable for balancing mistakes as CCP works via trial and error to get things right is not smart business.
SteelDark Knight Imperfects Negative-Feedback 94	Posted - 2013.08.16 06:09:00 - [4] - Quote Quote: And what I am particularly saying is that training for FOTM wasn't inherently wrong, but that it's a weighed decision. Be OP now at the risk of nerfs later, or take a different route and wait for your turn in the sun. You do realize that 90% of the players of this game never check these forums or see the epic forum PvP and debates to know what it deemed by our collective as balanced and what is not. Also my ability to read CCP's mind is a bit off at the moment. The fact that we compensate for CCP's mistakes by stating "well, you should have know!" is just plain sad. I can't even believe that is considered a rational answer. Lets play a competitive game but NOT pick the best option if that is your goal? Makes perfect sense. Quote: It's just like all the other choices. It is not choice if that choice is fundamentally changed. If you pick one thing and it is in changed to another than that "choice" is a lie. I'm not talking minor percentage changes here as that isn't the long term plan. The current Logi changes are only a place holder. Quote: And please stop talking about EvE as if it helps your point. Sadly, I was only trying to point to the fact that looking at numbers and making decisions based on that is not a bad thing. Yes, we are all aware of the HTFU Eve mentality. I think we may all be learning that this may work very well for that genre with all its available options however to date it is failing miserably in this one. I'm sorry but we may just have to agree to disagree. To be very clear I'm not in favor of aurum respecs or a respec after every single change. What I am in favor of is allowing a respec once the dust settles from what promises to be a series of major changes that will it appears differ greatly from our prior choices.