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True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1191
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Posted - 2013.08.13 00:28:00 -
[31] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:So let me get this straight.
I kill someone. I get 50sp and a kill. Then the enemy gets revived and he has NO deaths and the Clone count remains the same.
IF IT STILL counts as a kill for me im ok with it , i guess. Sure its how BF3 has been running hasn't it? |
KING CHECKMATE
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
506
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Posted - 2013.08.13 00:33:00 -
[32] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:So let me get this straight.
I kill someone. I get 50sp and a kill. Then the enemy gets revived and he has NO deaths and the Clone count remains the same.
IF IT STILL counts as a kill for me im ok with it , i guess. Sure its how BF3 has been running hasn't it?
I guess you are right then.
I stand corrected people.
This could work. (And avoid a team playing better,holding objectives and reviving to loose by cloning just because the other team has more proto gear or kill more). |
8213
Grade No.2
143
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 00:36:00 -
[33] - Quote
No, you still died. You lost the fight and you ran out of health. Dead is dead. Now, before you transferred into another clone, you got reinjected and brought back. You lost no gear, but the death still goes on your record.
Besides, there is nothing better than some medic coming along and reviving you, leaving you near death again. So 1 kill turns into 3 |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1191
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Posted - 2013.08.13 00:46:00 -
[34] - Quote
But it seems like there is no point then in not simply respawning. |
gargantuise aaron
Sanguine Knights
40
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Posted - 2013.08.13 01:33:00 -
[35] - Quote
As it currently stands I gain nothing from squadding with a medic |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention
1449
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Posted - 2013.08.13 06:36:00 -
[36] - Quote
8213 wrote:No, you still died. You lost the fight and you ran out of health. Dead is dead. Now, before you transferred into another clone, you got reinjected and brought back. You lost no gear, but the death still goes on your record. Besides, there is nothing better than some medic coming along and reviving you, leaving you near death again. So 1 kill turns into 3 All of which cost zero clones until you actually bleed out thus making those three "deaths" completely meaningless within the context of the "defending" team who player is being shot. Of course if Mercs don't know that they can continue to rage over KDR while using inferior tactics that actually hurt their chances of winning in favor of protecting a stat that is, frankly, terribad.
~Cross |
CLONE117
Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore
122
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Posted - 2013.08.14 02:18:00 -
[37] - Quote
why dont we just count count respawns as deaths? |
Blade Masterson
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1
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Posted - 2013.08.14 02:41:00 -
[38] - Quote
An easy fix is to ad a revived stat on the kills death and assists screen to know how many suits you lost |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1211
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 02:44:00 -
[39] - Quote
Look this is the simplest way of doing it.
If you down someone its a kill. You mortally wounded them.
If they bleed out or respawn its a death against their record.
If they get rezed it doesn't count as a death against their record, but the opponent still get the kill counted. |
NewOldMan
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
60
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Posted - 2013.08.14 03:30:00 -
[40] - Quote
People need to realize that the Death statistic is to represent YOUR fighting ability, nothing in the meta game, not a team mechanic, but a personal statistic.
If you get dropped by an enemy, that is recorded as the fact that YOU lost a fight. If you take that away, how are corps supposed to grade you? We don't have access to an API key. Besides, if a corp wanteda member the best kdr, then they would just have a crack team of logis following one guy. have him play a bunch of games (if he dies he will get brought back, no kdr loss) and pwn the other team (pubstomps of course) and then just have that guy not play on that character anymore, permanently on the leaderboards.
So my real question, is why remove it? Just cause of the rez whores? Ok, I can see complaining because of them. But I will not have core statistic in FPS's taken away because of that. (I don't care about my KDR, but it is a standard as to which people are held to for greatness) |
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True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1213
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 03:38:00 -
[41] - Quote
NewOldMan wrote:People need to realize that the Death statistic is to represent YOUR fighting ability, nothing in the meta game, not a team mechanic, but a personal statistic.
If you get dropped by an enemy, that is recorded as the fact that YOU lost a fight. If you take that away, how are corps supposed to grade you? We don't have access to an API key. Besides, if a corp wanteda member the best kdr, then they would just have a crack team of logis following one guy. have him play a bunch of games (if he dies he will get brought back, no kdr loss) and pwn the other team (pubstomps of course) and then just have that guy not play on that character anymore, permanently on the leaderboards.
So my real question, is why remove it? Just cause of the rez whores? Ok, I can see complaining because of them. But I will not have core statistic in FPS's taken away because of that. (I don't care about my KDR, but it is a standard as to which people are held to for greatness) I really don't know what you mean by core mechanic of FPS.... since Battlefield uses this mechanic and its a vastly more successful game that dust is (no offence CCP they just dedicated themselves to the FPS genre.
Also this game isn't about solo performance its about squad work and achieving something. No matter what you cannot achieve big things solo in New Eden. |
NewOldMan
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
60
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Posted - 2013.08.14 03:59:00 -
[42] - Quote
True Adamance wrote: I really don't know what you mean by core mechanic of FPS.... since Battlefield uses this mechanic and its a vastly more successful game that dust is (no offence CCP they just dedicated themselves to the FPS genre.
Also this game isn't about solo performance its about squad work and achieving something. No matter what you cannot achieve big things solo in New Eden.
I mean core mechanic by the fact that this game is about shooting people in the face until they die and taking their planets kind of mechanic. And that statistic is there to record progress in that field. The only thing this option improves is your KDR. And I don't like the way battlefield does it either (also there are a lot of games that are far more popular than dust in this genre)
I don't like this because you can't prove homocide without proof of the murder in some way, or a body. You died, lost a fight, got ambushed, etc. etc. To me it NEEDS to be recorded on your record. Team stats are fine, heck throw in one that gives number of times revived or something. But There still needs to be a statistic that the individual can be held to. Which in most FPS games its KDR. Dust is a shooter at core. KDR is a stat that shows how skillful you are with staying alive in a game where the main objective for the enemy is to kill you. |
Canaan Knute
Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention
104
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 04:09:00 -
[43] - Quote
NewOldMan wrote:People need to realize that the Death statistic is to represent YOUR fighting ability, nothing in the meta game, not a team mechanic, but a personal statistic.
If you get dropped by an enemy, that is recorded as the fact that YOU lost a fight. If you take that away, how are corps supposed to grade you? This wouldn't be a problem if a statistic was added to keep track of how many times you were downed. For example, there could be a kill/knockout ratio in addition to the kill/death ratio, and recruiters could find these by scouring the leaderboards or looking up a player's profile.
The current kill/death ratio is misleading because it doesn't tell you how many clones you lost, and it shouldn't be that way. There is a similar problem with kills: you can't tell how many clones have been terminated by each player. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1213
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 04:27:00 -
[44] - Quote
NewOldMan wrote:True Adamance wrote: I really don't know what you mean by core mechanic of FPS.... since Battlefield uses this mechanic and its a vastly more successful game that dust is (no offence CCP they just dedicated themselves to the FPS genre.
Also this game isn't about solo performance its about squad work and achieving something. No matter what you cannot achieve big things solo in New Eden.
I mean core mechanic by the fact that this game is about shooting people in the face until they die and taking their planets kind of mechanic. And that statistic is there to record progress in that field. The only thing this option improves is your KDR. And I don't like the way battlefield does it either (also there are a lot of games that are far more popular than dust in this genre) I don't like this because you can't prove homocide without proof of the murder in some way, or a body. You died, lost a fight, got ambushed, etc. etc. To me it NEEDS to be recorded on your record. Team stats are fine, heck throw in one that gives number of times revived or something. But There still needs to be a statistic that the individual can be held to. Which in most FPS games its KDR. Dust is a shooter at core. KDR is a stat that shows how skillful you are with staying alive in a game where the main objective for the enemy is to kill you. But it doesn't matter how many times I die if Im kicking your ass all over the place. KDR is meaningless.
Win Loss is all that matters. |
NewOldMan
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
60
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Posted - 2013.08.14 05:03:00 -
[45] - Quote
Canaan Knute wrote:NewOldMan wrote:People need to realize that the Death statistic is to represent YOUR fighting ability, nothing in the meta game, not a team mechanic, but a personal statistic.
If you get dropped by an enemy, that is recorded as the fact that YOU lost a fight. If you take that away, how are corps supposed to grade you? This wouldn't be a problem if a statistic was added to keep track of how many times you were downed. For example, there could be a kill/knockout ratio in addition to the kill/death ratio, and recruiters could find these by scouring the leaderboards or looking up a player's profile. The current kill/death ratio is misleading because it doesn't tell you how many clones you lost, and it shouldn't be that way. There is a similar problem with kills: you can't tell how many clones have been terminated by each player.
This. I don't care if we remove "deaths" and replace it with downs, and then have the number of times your clone has actually been terminated (respawn). But I will not support the removal of the stat in and of itself.
And about the win loss thing. Yeah win loss is all that matters, and yeah its a team game where you can't get into a match with more than 1/4th of the team as people you know (guaranteed). Also when you get an app from someone for a position, are you gonna look at how successful the company was? Or the person who is applying to the job? |
Sardonk Eternia
Multnomah Interstellar Holdings Inc.
139
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 11:58:00 -
[46] - Quote
Agreed. Maybe fewer people would bleed out if they knew my incoming needle would save their KDR as well as their ISK. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative..
669
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 14:54:00 -
[47] - Quote
Because someone earned a kill. Because the guy downed got owned.
This topic has already been talked thru many times. |
Lazy Scumbag
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
30
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 15:09:00 -
[48] - Quote
If I shoot you down, I get a kill. There has to be a death if there was a kill. |
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